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Hutch~n~Son Archery
07-04-2011, 01:39 PM
I have a 26 inch draw module in my bow. How come when I measure my bow at full draw. It comes up 27"? Is it because of the draw stop. The draw stop is at the half point. How much does the draw stop give you for movement an inch, inch and half?





Hutch:cool:

Hutch~n~Son Archery
07-04-2011, 02:29 PM
Sorry Sonny, I forgot to say what system. 2010 BENGAL Acu-trak.
I am not adding 1 3/4" for AMO either. That's why I am confused:confused:





Hutch:cool:

Destroyer
07-04-2011, 02:39 PM
Doesn't matter really, annoying yes. Is your draw length correct for you?

Hutch~n~Son Archery
07-04-2011, 04:38 PM
Whoa! Full draw, from apex of string to deepest part of the grip is 27" with 26" mod? Adding the AMO 1 3/4" would be 28 3/4" of draw length. 2 3/4" long!
Lord! I've got ask, you sure you're measuring correctly? If you are, something is wrong big time....
That is what I said! But after checking it and measuring it a few times it still comes out 27". I checked the mod too! And I did it on the shooting machine. So I can't figure it out.

Hutch:cool:

cjchasman
07-05-2011, 04:00 AM
Hutch, you can give me a head slap now but I gotta' ask. May there be an issue w/ string or cable length?? You guys know way more than me on this matter but if bow and cam and module are correct I always try to track back to what else could be wrong.

OK... commence to head slappin'.

cj

alex
07-05-2011, 08:41 AM
Hutch, are you sure the module is really for 26". Martin aren't very precise when it comes to the modules - often the site says one, the manual other. And not to mention about these odd blank modules :cool:

Hutch~n~Son Archery
07-05-2011, 02:43 PM
Okay everyone, String set is right, mod is correct, and I am measuring right. So is martins, specs wrong? I shoot correct length but if someone was to ask me my draw length, well well http://www.3dshoots.com/forums/images/smilies/noidea.gif






Hutchhttp://www.3dshoots.com/forums/images/smilies/dizzy.gif

wscywabbit
07-05-2011, 02:53 PM
Long shot here, but maybe the bow shipped with wrong limbs? Longer limbs? Although if the limbs were wrong length, your ATA and BH would be way off as well (thinking out loud)... and even if you cranked the cable down to make the ATA spec, the BH would be way long and the draw weight would be high. I'm assuming everything but the dl is to spec then? Maybe the Mod was mis-labled? Long and short of it I guess would be that if it fits you and shoots well, just shoot the dang thing! lol

cjchasman
07-05-2011, 03:14 PM
Well the way I see it from over here is that Martin's specs must be wrong and your draw length is 28 3/4....But I have another question just out of curiosity...At what length do you cut your arrows? The difference in what you thought you had vs. what you actually have is pretty big. :confused:

cj

Wait...edit time, I saw it is 27" in another post...does that put the arrow pretty far back?

Hutch~n~Son Archery
07-05-2011, 03:19 PM
Arrows are 27" minus the field points. That is just right with the bodoodle rest. That brings up another point when fully drawn, my arrow comes to the deepest part of the grip and the arrow is 27" which also confirms that I measured right.



HUTCH:cool:

cjchasman
07-05-2011, 03:22 PM
Just missed each other on that Hutch. I edited my post after reading your other post on arrows.
cj

Destroyer
07-05-2011, 04:42 PM
I shoot correct length but if someone was to ask me my draw length

You add 1 3/4" to your 'too the pivot of grip' if you want AMO, simple. ;)

I wonder how much of this is going on, my Bear was way over AMO too.

Hutch~n~Son Archery
07-05-2011, 04:59 PM
Well when I first checked the draw length and added 1 3/4 of an inch to it. I knew that 28 3/4 is great, except I would have to have gorilla arms. Since I am just a small fry. It is beginning to look like a improperly marked draw module. I have a 27" draw length and on every bow it is been the same. So as you said doesn't matter. It shoots right, feels right, and is accurate. I will just shoot it.



Hutch:cool:

Destroyer
07-05-2011, 05:21 PM
I have a 27" draw length and on every bow it is been the same

AMO length? :confused:

Do you draw to the stop?

LIbowhunter
07-05-2011, 05:25 PM
Can someone direct me to where all these phrases are defined? 26" Mod? ATA? BH? Measuring to the deepest part of the grip?? I'd like to know since I need to make sure my new bow is correct in its draw length compared to my draw length and my arrows which are cut at 29" not including the nocks and field tips and/or broadheads.

Destroyer
07-05-2011, 05:37 PM
Mod = Cam Module. Rated by numbers to give a particular draw length on a particular model bow.
ATA = Axle to axle measurement. Important to draw weight, draw length and brace hieght.
BH = Brace Height. The measurement of the distance from the pivot of the grip to the string, the maximum distance to the string.

Maybe a 'Measurements & Definitions' sticky would be useful Hutch.

Arrow Splitter
07-05-2011, 06:01 PM
LIbowhunter, you will also see these abbreviations as well:
DL: Draw length
DW: Draw weight

I guess we (or at least me) tend to shorten things up so we can type faster.:o

A.S

gravedigger
07-05-2011, 06:35 PM
all the tecs for dl got me running round and round.so rather then go the tech i just started playing with the #4 and #5 mod.5 felt good but was a bit jumpy so i setteld on the 4 and i wont tweak with a thing.shoots great.and hutch and i have the same bows.

Hutch~n~Son Archery
07-06-2011, 01:08 AM
Can't help thinking that something is wrong..... 2 3/4" is a bunch....Same here Sonny T, same here.



Hutch:cool:

Ehunter
07-06-2011, 02:14 PM
Hutch, you got me to wondering as well. I just checked my Onza. 28 3/4 from the back of the grip to the string apex. So add on the 1 3/4 inch for AMO, and that's 30.5 inches. I have the mods set in the #4 hole. Moving it to the #7 hole would be a 32 inch draw length AMO, or 30 inch to the back of the grip...........and it is spec'd at 30.5 max draw length......neither is right.....

Hutch~n~Son Archery
07-06-2011, 02:33 PM
Ehunter, The weird part is I can still move my draw stop to give me even more draw length with a 26" mod.
whats up with that.:confused:



Hutch:cool:

MLN1963
07-06-2011, 02:47 PM
Shouldn't the draw stop be roughly where the cable rests on the module flatly for each length?

Ehunter
07-06-2011, 03:08 PM
Hutch, I hear ya. That 32 inch measurement was with the draw stop in the center, not maxed out. Beginning to wonder if we need to wrap the cables up tighter, but on my Onza, I have the cables wrapped up so dang tight I'm scared to go any further. And I'm still at 33 5/8ths ATA, not the listed 33 1/4........I do have to say, it is shooting well though. lol

Hutch~n~Son Archery
07-09-2011, 04:42 PM
Doesn't matter to me about the draw length. I have it set for me. I shoot it well, and it hits the mark. But it is weird how they measure draw length. I am a small guy and according to their measurements I shoot a 28 3/4" Draw length. Weird!!!!!!!



Hutch:cool:

HawgEnvy
07-09-2011, 08:06 PM
Hutch, idk if AtA has anything to do w which mod produces which DL, but my DL is 28.5" on my 30" AtA Cheetah using the F5 mod. W my drop away rest, my arrows are cut to 26.75" and at full draw, my BH n FP sit flush w the shelf. I could easily lose another 1" of arrow length if I wanted to.

Libowhunter, heres some more for ya
BH=also means broadhead(s)
FP=field point(s)

NeilMac
07-09-2011, 09:52 PM
There seems to be a common thread here across a number of bows with different cams, as the Shadowcat with 1.5 cams is 1/2" longer in DL than the specs.

Could it be that all the published specs are taken from the R&D departments prototypes and pre-production models and then not updated once the guys on the shop floor start making the 'real thing'?

For my part, I really don't lose sleep over this stuff. I just set the bow up until the DL feels right, set the draw stop so that it just drops into the valley, make sure my arrows are well on the rest and take it from there. Martin, on the other hand, need to align their specs with the production bows, as it implies a lack of attention to detail.

Destroyer
07-09-2011, 10:48 PM
It seems to be happening with a few of the other brands too, I just hope were not seeing the longer draw lengths just to boost IBO speeds.

Hutch~n~Son Archery
07-10-2011, 03:04 AM
There seems to be a common thread here across a number of bows with different cams, as the Shadowcat with 1.5 cams is 1/2" longer in DL than the specs.

Could it be that all the published specs are taken from the R&D departments prototypes and pre-production models and then not updated once the guys on the shop floor start making the 'real thing'?

For my part, I really don't lose sleep over this stuff. I just set the bow up until the DL feels right, set the draw stop so that it just drops into the valley, make sure my arrows are well on the rest and take it from there. Martin, on the other hand, need to align their specs with the production bows, as it implies a lack of attention to detail.Agreed

Hutch:cool:

Hutch~n~Son Archery
07-10-2011, 03:06 AM
It seems to be happening with a few of the other brands too, I just hope were not seeing the longer draw lengths just to boost IBO speeds.I believe you are on to some thing. Now I will have to buy an arm stretcher to keep up! LOL!




Hutch:cool:

NeilMac
07-10-2011, 06:14 AM
I think you've hit the nail square on the head. There is nothing wrong with the bows, it's the technical information published and on the web that is all screwed up.

I bought my first Shadowcat knowing full well that despite the longest DL being listed as 30", it would actually go to 30.5" at 65% let off, but I could have been put of buying by two published figures that were wrong; The maximum DL and the ATA, both of which were wrong and shorter than I require.

The reverse is also true, as per previous posts.

So, where within Martin does the problem lie? Are they spending $$$ on literature only to find production bows are different? I work in sales, I know just how much literature costs to print / distribute. If it's a publishing error, there are ways around it. Stickers on flyers are not pretty, but at least you'd know the information was good.

Or is the problem that the technical and production staff are just not communicating with marketing, after all, if you don't know something is wrong, you can't do anything about it.

peace
07-10-2011, 06:43 AM
I believe you are on to some thing. Now I will have to buy an arm stretcher to keep up! LOL! Hutch:cool:

Isn't that the thing masons use to carry bricks with?

Hutch~n~Son Archery
07-10-2011, 01:57 PM
So long and short of it. I have a 2010 Bengal, with the ACU-TRAC cam, that has a draw stop no pegs.
I have a 26" f-2 mod in it. With the draw stop at the have mark. I put my bow in the draw machine draw it back to the stop. I measure the length from the apex of the string to the deepest part of the grip. And it reads 27". Add a 1-3/4" and it comes out to be 28-3/4" draw length. Which makes no sense at all. So long and short of it. It just so happens 27" is what I have always drawn. So no need to change anything for shooting purposes. So if Martin would explain how they measure it that would help.

Hutch:cool:

Destroyer
07-10-2011, 03:15 PM
AMO doesn't exist as a organization anymore so maybe they don't use the standard? Like I keep getting back to, just imagine a 30" draw to the grip and what the extra would do for speed................

Maybe gravity has changed? ;)

forge64
07-11-2011, 10:04 AM
My 2010 Bengal has the f-3 module, the draw stop is about half way and it measures 26.5.

Arrow Splitter
07-11-2011, 10:16 AM
This is really getting confusing.:confused::confused:

wscywabbit
07-11-2011, 12:40 PM
Hear hear, I agree. Thats why I'm just sitting back watching. Now where's my popcorn...... :p

Destroyer
07-11-2011, 02:47 PM
Archery Trade Association

Yep. But do they have a standard?

Destroyer
07-11-2011, 07:02 PM
No one had a standard.

True, but is that a standard in itself, 'None'. ;)

Hutch~n~Son Archery
07-14-2011, 02:06 PM
I have the 2011 manual, but the pictures aren't clear enough to really see what I want. First, at full draw the cable should lay flat in the groove adjoined to the draw modual. 2nd, the draw stop should be set. If the draw stop is set far back you can overdraw the bow (go past the flat in the groove).
It would be nice to see some pics to really see what's going on.Okay Sonny T I finally got the time to run this procedure. You have found my answer! I drew back my bow in my drawing machine. It comes back to the flat spot on the mod. Then it goes over that and stops at the draw stop.
Now why would they have a over draw?
Should I just go to a f3 module? That would put it at the exact length.


Hutch:cool:

bfisher
07-14-2011, 02:44 PM
What did I miss here? Hutch, if you drawing the bow past the flat part of the module then the draw stop is set too long for that module. At least that's what I just read in your latest post.

Hutch~n~Son Archery
07-14-2011, 02:46 PM
Sonny T, I will be changing to a F3 mod. Now I believe you are right about bending the string. Now I know why my arrows are fish tailing.



Hutch:cool:

Hutch~n~Son Archery
07-14-2011, 02:50 PM
What did I miss here? Hutch, if you drawing the bow past the flat part of the module then the draw stop is set too long for that module. At least that's what I just read in your latest post.It had a 26" draw mod in it. Time to change it to a f3 Which will be fine I am a 27" DL


Hutch:cool: