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Ford
07-12-2011, 06:20 AM
Hey guys,
Quick question. So I have my bow dialed in ok, not perfect but decent. I have a 25 yard pin and 35 yard pin. I tend to group a little to the left. At 15 yards I'm stacking arrows in the high left corner of a 2" square. I espect the high portion being that I'm using a 25 yd pin at 15. So I take it out to 25, I can put 2 arrows into a 2" square, then the next 2 arrows are 6 inches to the left of the square. I thought at first maybe I'm pulling the shot, sometimes it happens, but not every time. And its enough to start bugging me a lot. And whats even more odd, the 2 shots that go left are usually perfect up and down, and nearly touching one another, like really really tight. Its not with every group, but on a regular basis.
So the question is, am I tourqing the bow, slapping the release, I cant figure out whats going on. I know i'm sighted in a little left, but not much. And I've pulled random shots plenty of times that landed arrows in nowheres land. But I'm consistently pulling 2 arrows that almost robin hood one another. Can I be duplicating a big mistake 2 times in a row? does lightning strike twice in the same spot?
I dont have any pictures to show my form, I'm a newer archer so it could be that. My set up is an extreme rear sight, with a cobra 5 pin sight with all the pins removed except 2. I'm also using a new release, hand held tru fire 3d, with a bow I havent shot more then 50 or so times. Any ideas explinations?
The bow hasnt really been tuned, it was used, and I left the rest alone from the guy before. But it looks aligned properly, my nock height is right as well. My arrow spine is 400, ona bow set up with 26" length and shooting 55-60 pounds. So I'm a little over spined, but not much. I have removed the sight to mount my rear sight.

Hit The X
07-12-2011, 06:33 AM
Well its a great question and aas you already know there can be lots of things that can add up to the problem your having.
The only way your gonna know if your punching the trigger or even tweaking the bow hand is by having a buddy watch your form or possibly use a video camera to tape yourself in a like 10 -20 releases in a row . the reason i say 10 -20 is after watching the video you will see the small differences you may not feel while your standing at the line.

IE: Your release hand and wrist are not aligned your not anchoring the same way everytime. thse are a few of the simple things and so you know its not only your upper body you have to look at . Your stance has lots to do with shooting Are you open , closed / Maybe to far open or to closed down in your stand can cause small nuances like that to comr about and drive you nutz.

I hope this helps even a lil bit let me know what you find out and if you fix the problem your having.

Happy Shooting and Hunting

Ford
07-12-2011, 06:36 AM
thanks for the reply, I will have a friend watch me shoot. I had an idea it was mostly related to form or anchor. I have only shot a bow for a month or two now, and completely changed sight system, bow, release, and anchor half way through those couple of months. I figured it had to be me. I cant wait to get this worked out, if this thing is grouping arrows that tight when I screw up, imagine what it will do when my form improves.

Money Man
07-12-2011, 07:34 AM
Do you know if it is the same 2 arrows every time? I took a sharpie and numbered my arrows, since I just bought the arrows, I wanted to make sure if I had 1 that was a flier, I would only have to worry about that one arrow instead of guessing if I flubbed the shot.

Hit The X
07-12-2011, 07:45 AM
Do you know if it is the same 2 arrows every time? I took a sharpie and numbered my arrows, since I just bought the arrows, I wanted to make sure if I had 1 that was a flier, I would only have to worry about that one arrow instead of guessing if I flubbed the shot.

Great Idea I have arrorw wraps that have a cool pic and at the very end it has a number in a circle . that how i keep track of my arrows by numbers .

cjchasman
07-12-2011, 07:58 AM
You may want to start your session by shooting at 25 yds. My guess is fatigue may be causing form issues which will magnify at longer distance. Work to group arrows consistently and move to different shooting distance sooner/more often. See if the problem occurs as predictably as it does now. Fatigue can be anything from back muscles, arm muscles, hand or eye. Most all are relative to your shooting form. Also some of the guys have talked about practice sessions and how they go about things. You may want to search for more input on how to fine tune a practice session etc.

Arrow Splitter
07-12-2011, 08:01 AM
Do you know if it is the same 2 arrows every time? I took a sharpie and numbered my arrows, since I just bought the arrows, I wanted to make sure if I had 1 that was a flier, I would only have to worry about that one arrow instead of guessing if I flubbed the shot.X2 This works.

Ford
07-12-2011, 08:19 AM
great ideas guys.
I did try to shoot the farther distances first, and that did help a little but it still seems to happen just not as much. I will try to number the arrows as well. I have had a few hit my shed, and wonder if that did something to the flight. thanks for the advice,
Josh

wscywabbit
07-12-2011, 11:58 AM
So I'll tear into this;

So I'm a a loss with; "you removed the sight to mount my rear sight." Maybe too many gadgets on the market for me to keep up.

I'm at odds with the 2" square impact and what your bow is capable as for speed. 4" difference between 15 and 25 yards seems more reasonable.

New shooter/Good form; Address the target. Stand straight up, feet straight down from your shoulders (more like arm pits). Head up, look to the target and draw bow and you as do try to keep the pin on the target (a little high is good as you can come down easier than go up). The bow comes to you, not you going to the bow. Peep should be right there, not tilting the head (a little exception if you're wanting nose/string contact).

Already said; Number arrows. If a arrow consistently goes astray try indexing the nock to another vane. - ie nock tuning.

Bow tune; At the present bow tune is secondary so long as you stay at one yardage. I would prefer 20 yards max until things are straightened out.

Release; Should not be a problem. Repeatable anchor point is.

Arrow spine; Not a issue.

Torquing bow; Bow grip to hand imperative. Riser grip should just be to inside of base knuckle of thumb - in the meaty part of thumb before the line in the palm of the hand. Knuckles of hand should be roughly 45 degrees. Fingers should not grip riser, period. Bow should be drawn as such, no gripping whatsoever. See pic.

Draw weight/time; Draw weight should be that you can hold the pin reasonably on target while drawing. Allow 15 to 20 seconds between shots - let the bow arm recover - move it, shake it and let it hang - the feeling you get is from blood surging through the arm - regaining full strength.

Aiming; Trying too hard kills the best of us. Relax, let the shot just happen.

Suggestion; Forget the 2" square. Blank sheet of paper, use level to draw a horizontal line. Establish height. Next, another blank sheet of paper, use level to draw a vertical line. Establish center. With this incorporate New Shooter/Good form.

Nicely put Sonny! X2

Get in the habit of doing the same thing the same way EVERYTIME; stance, grip, draw, anchor, target aquisition, release, followthrough, and even breathing (this is your Shot Sequence). The thing is, even an archer with poor form and/or a poorly tuned setup will hit the same spot at a given distance every shot if they just complete their shot sequence the exact same way everytime they shoot an arrow. In short practice practice practice! :cool:

Hutch~n~Son Archery
07-12-2011, 03:03 PM
One bad habit I use to have is jerking the release trigger. Which would cause the arrow to go astray. Now I am in the habit if wrapping my finger around it a pulling it.



Hutch:cool:

Rangerj
07-12-2011, 03:05 PM
Do you know if it is the same 2 arrows every time? I took a sharpie and numbered my arrows, since I just bought the arrows, I wanted to make sure if I had 1 that was a flier, I would only have to worry about that one arrow instead of guessing if I flubbed the shot.

This!!!!!:cool:

Destroyer
07-12-2011, 04:04 PM
What rest?

Ehunter
07-12-2011, 05:19 PM
Hutch has a good point too. Alot of guys shoot a release that's too long for them. I use the second pad of my finger to fire the release, not the tip of my finger. That helps prevent jerking the trigger.

Ford
07-13-2011, 06:13 AM
I use a qad drop away.

I worked with it a little last night. I'm pretty sure that it was my grip. The way my sight system works is once its set, you have to repeat exactly the same sequence of hand position, anchor point, everything to get the front pin to line up with the rear dove tail. I'm pretty sure I had set the sight up with to aggressive of a grip. So I started from scratch, reset up the rear sight, re sighted in with the front pins. I now have the grip if the meaty part of the webbing of my hand, with knuckles roughly 30-45 degrees. My consistancy is much better. Still working on the dialing in, but at least I'm consistantly off the same every time. And the few groups I did shoot are much better at distance.
Just for clarity I have the eliminator extreme rear sight if it was a regular peep I would be done by now. But I like the system and want to work with it so I need to learn patience. My biggest issue right now is running out of left hand adjustment in the front sight. But I rewatched the instruction dvd last night and have a new way to attack.
Also have you guys noticed differences in how much a click or two adjust left or right on a sight at 10 yds compared to 30? Am I right in assuming just like a rifle scope, that close in it takes more clicks to get it centered, then further out?
If the question doesnt make sense check out the website for my sight, or my album has a picture of the rear sight.

Ford
07-13-2011, 06:51 AM
ok, that helps. I was trying to dial in to much at like 10 yds, just hoping to raise the sight as it got out farther. I think I will get it reasonable with some left adjustment left, take it out to 35 then dial in the left to right. that might just solve my problem.

bfisher
07-13-2011, 08:24 AM
ok, that helps. I was trying to dial in to much at like 10 yds, just hoping to raise the sight as it got out farther. I think I will get it reasonable with some left adjustment left, take it out to 35 then dial in the left to right. that might just solve my problem.

Essentially you are trying the walkback method of tuning. You may have to tweak your rest a bit. Once this is done you should shoot dead center at all distances. Yes, if the sight is off a bit it will show up more at longer distances, but if your centershot is correct then you should be able to sight in at 30 yards or so and see no appreciable change at 10 yards or vise versa.