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View Full Version : First Shots through Firecat 400 today and....



Jason
08-27-2011, 09:20 PM
I took my first shots through my New Firecat 400 today. So far it is equipped with a Bone Collector Quality Archery Design Drop Away Arrow Rest, Apex Bone Collector Quiver, Apex Bone Collector Stabilizer, Bone Collector D-Loop, TruGlo micro brite 3 pin sights and G5 1/4" peep. Why all the bone collector stuff? Well my bow is black and green and well all that stuff matches the bow and so far the accessories are decent. I have not yet put on my TruBlock string silencers and G5 speed studs. Still need to get maybe some limb silencers as well.

I am shooting 70# at a 29" draw. My bow is setup with a cable slide and an STS. No more TRG/SOS being sent out it appears.


My big topic today is noise. My arrow rest makes a little noise on the draw but you can not hear it standing 10 yards away from it. The rest drops away to the silent shelf so the drop is pretty clean. I checked all screws and parts for loose screws or connections before shooting. I shot about 15-20 shots. I shot in an indoor range so judging noise was a bad acoustic environment. However the bow was quite loud. Other bows shooting around me were much more low performance and poundage but were much more quiet. At the end of shooting I realize my module screws at the cam were nearly backed out causing a lot of noise but I am not confident that was the source of all the noise. I say this because even my first 3 shots were loud with all screws pre-checked. I have them tight again but I am going to have to add some Loctite to the threads to keep them in place I guess. I am thinking they are just going to back out again. Another thought is that the string slapping the STS is adding noise rather than helping it. I have moved the bumper back and forward trying to compare but I have more to do with that before being confident one way or another. I may remove it to hear a the total difference. I hate to do that because its ment to be a nice feature to have on a bow.

Now the good out of today's shoot. This bow is fast. I had the fastest shot at the range. The pure raw force of my arrow hitting the target was making such audible bang. This is my first what you would call high speed bow. The chronograph is broke so I was not able to take any sample of speed. The bow just looks wicked. One of the employees I brought the bow too to put a sticker on it as my own personal merchandise just forgot what he was doing. I eventually asked "Dont I need a sticker or something to take this to the back of the store"? "Oh yeah sorry of course I was just drooling over this bow". Carrying around the carbon black firecat today with the carbon quiver and stabilizer accessories adding to it was like driving a nice sports car. You can hear people making comments and some cant help but walk up to you to see it up close.

After sighting in I am shooting more accurate than I ever have in my life. I do not know if their is one exact reason for it or if its a combination. Switching to the drop away rest? The bow? The Sights? All 3? If you place a 2 inch "x" at 20 yards with my last Martin Jaguar I could hit all around the "x" area pretty snug but never accurately center the "x" over and over again. Today I can center the "x" at 20 yards and place another carbon shaft right next to the first arrow with fletching touching. The sight I have also allows for fine tune click adjustments like a rifle scope so I am sure that helps. My accuracy is blowing me away. Even though this bow is loud right now the arrow is impacting the target before the bow is even finished making its noise. I have to get the noise worked out though.

Feel free to comment on anything I got here but I would really like to know if anyone has this bow and had a good bit of unwanted noise. What did you do? Maybe I will have it figured out soon. I am hoping locking the module screws down good made a big difference and we will see about the STS far as on or off, adjusted, etc. Really need to shoot again soon outdoors to better feel out the noise.

Thanks.

Destroyer
08-27-2011, 10:06 PM
Not a bad review Jason, sounds like its a good bow except for the noise issue. There are a few threads dealing with noise so check them out, might help. Just have to ask though, where are the photos?

:)

Simple Life
08-28-2011, 02:25 AM
Nice review Jason.Not sure what arrows you shoot,but a heavier one will help to absord some sound too.

Good luck

SL

HawgEnvy
08-28-2011, 04:55 AM
excellent review. Gotta love the extra speed of a dual cam. To help w some noise, this is what I do. Limbsavers,shelf padding(but yours is already rubber?),i cut pieces of a bicycle innertube and make gaskets to go between the rest/riser,sight/riser,quiver mount/sight. Also my strings from Hutch quieted the Cheetah down alot. I wouldn't use loc-tite on any threads. Put string wax on all the fasteners. Works great. Not sure which of these guys suggested it,but it made me a believer.

the BEST thing you can do is...POST PICS!
and as loud as Michael Waddell is,all that "Bone Collector stuff is probably most of ur noise. Lol

danbow34
08-28-2011, 06:25 AM
Jason,
Had the same problem you do but my rest was a Quad Hunter. Took it off, switched to the whisker buscuit ( I keep one on hand for a back up) added a few others things as you can see and no problems. But hopefully with what you paid for your rest thats not the problem, might what to try a different one to be sure. My screws were doing the same thing so I put a coat of wax on them and reinstalled them no problems after that. I'm not comforntable with using Loctite just in case I need to change things. Hope this helps.
Dan4112

Sharxfan
08-28-2011, 07:26 AM
I put a slim bowjax on my STS and that seemed to quiet it down a bit as well.

Jason
08-28-2011, 10:47 AM
All my pics say they are too large to be uploaded here.

Jason
08-28-2011, 11:54 AM
Ok here are some pictures of the bow.. They are just some earlier pics. Nothing specific to the thread.

http://myhuntprofile.com/m/photos/browse/album/My-New-Bow-2011/owner/Jason

Destroyer
08-28-2011, 03:05 PM
Nice rig Jason. :)

peace
08-28-2011, 05:50 PM
Those Bone Collector accessories complement that Firecat just right. I love blue loctite on accessories. It keeps the vibrations and noise down, is also made to be removal. We used to use beeswax for wood screws and does work in a pinch for metal to metal but loctite is preferred.

Hope you are able to get the noise to levels you can tolerate. Heavier arrows as suggested will do it. She is definitely looking bad a$$.

That FireCat is money....


Smarten Up and Martin Up

Jason
08-28-2011, 11:56 PM
Those Bone Collector accessories complement that Firecat just right. I love blue loctite on accessories. It keeps the vibrations and noise down, is also made to be removal. We used to use beeswax for wood screws and does work in a pinch for metal to metal but loctite is preferred.

Hope you are able to get the noise to levels you can tolerate. Heavier arrows as suggested will do it. She is definitely looking bad a$$.

That FireCat is money....


Smarten Up and Martin Up

Thanks guys for the kind words. I am going to try my scorpion venom wax on the threads and see how it holds first. If no success I am after the blue loctite. I am shooting quite a lighter arrow than I should be but its all I can really do right now.. I do have a couple heavy arrows laying around I can try for a noise test but the ones I have now are actually only rated for up to 60# from my old set up. Cant really afford more arrows just yet. I am not finding any damage to arrows so far though. I am putting string silencers and speed studs on it tomorrow. I would say before its over though I have limb silencers, cable silencers, cable slide silencer, etc on it. I do not want to use an adhesive limbsaver on this bow though. I was looking at a wrap design and also the vibracheck limb silencers but your bow has to be pressed to put them on.. Really I did not read great reviews about the vibracheck limb silencers anyway other than looking cool. Those are the ones you see factory on these PSE bows.

Again thanks for the comments and being a part of this new bow experience of mine I am having right now.

bfisher
08-29-2011, 05:47 AM
You say your arrows are too light for the bow. Just how light are they? This could contribute to the excessive noise. If you can't afford new arrows at this time there might be a temporary solution. Turn the weight down. Also make sure the cams are in sync. A little off and noise/vibration will be the result.

Good lookin rig, by the way. Both my bows are the carbon weave dip and it does stand out in a crowd.

j-bo
08-29-2011, 09:36 AM
You say your arrows are too light for the bow. Just how light are they? This could contribute to the excessive noise. If you can't afford new arrows at this time there might be a temporary solution. Turn the weight down. Also make sure the cams are in sync. A little off and noise/vibration will be the result.

Good lookin rig, by the way. Both my bows are the carbon weave dip and it does stand out in a crowd.

That's what I was thinking. At least a 350grain arrow with your DW. If it's less than that, then you're not doing the bow any favors for noise issues, nor doing yourself any favors for safety reasons.

And.. I don't get it.. all that money for a beautifully setup bow, but don't spend the $30 (Cabelas carbon stalker extremes) for 6 arrows, even if just to get you by ?(btw, I use those arrows for 3 yrs and they are just fine, except I'm going to lighter weight this year)

Jason
08-29-2011, 09:40 AM
Its not that I wont drop the 30 dollars.. I just cant take do it for a couple weeks.. Dont know actual weight on arrows.. Ill find out today but they are only rated for 45-60# I have a couple gold tip arrows that are heavier. I will test the concept.

j-bo
08-29-2011, 10:28 AM
Its not that I wont drop the 30 dollars.. I just cant take do it for a couple weeks.. Dont know actual weight on arrows.. Ill find out today but they are only rated for 45-60# I have a couple gold tip arrows that are heavier. I will test the concept.

Ahh... so the spine is probably off and maybe not so much the weight.

I'm shooting the Silencer, which is the same as the FC400 and I don't have the noise you are speaking of after I had my rest re-adjusted.

Good Luck man!

Ehunter
08-29-2011, 12:33 PM
I have a 70# FC400 also. My arrows are at 383 gr. total weight. A little bit louder than what I could accomplish with a heavier arrow, but it's a good compromise between silence and speed. It keeps the bow plenty quiet for hunting purposes. On initial set-up, my bow was fairly loud to me. It took a bit of cable twisting to get the cams timed, but once they were, it was significantly quieter. I think this might be part of your problem. I have limbsavers, cat whiskers, and a stabilizer for noise and vibration damping. Once the cams were set right, that's all it took to make it pretty darn quiet. Also, getting the cams timed just right should give you a speed increase. Increasing speed and decreasing noise at the same time is a great thing! lol

bob cooly
08-29-2011, 03:22 PM
After I discarded the TRG/SOS and replaced with a standard carbon rod guide, Limbsaver STS the noise on my Onza disappeared. If you are shooting arrows lighter than 350 grains you stand the risk of damaging your bow.

Jason
08-29-2011, 04:39 PM
I dont have much time I have to go right now.. Ill elaborate more later tonight. I am shooting a 430 Gr arrow. So thats good. I got those module screws good and snug and they held through my shots today.. Bow is much quieter. Also had string silencers and speed studs put on. Much more happy with the noise.. Reviewing back in my earlier post remember after my last noise my module screws backed out and I did not catch it till after the range.. Those I think were responsible for most of all the noise. Everything was much nicer today plus with a little string silence on top of that.

So what do you guys think now? I am good with 430 Grains? I do need to get arrows rated for above 70# regardless I know.

Thanks,
Jason

Arrow Splitter
08-29-2011, 04:43 PM
So what do you guys think now? I am good with 430 Grains?

That's more than enough weight.:cool:

bfisher
08-29-2011, 05:07 PM
They're more than heavy enough as far as mass weight is concerned, but I'd still recommend shooting a stiffer spine or dropping the bow's draw weight by about 5#. Just as proper fit of the bow (draw length) is the most important requirement of a compound bow, proper arrow spine is one of the more important requirements for good arrow flight.

Jason
08-29-2011, 06:05 PM
They're more than heavy enough as far as mass weight is concerned, but I'd still recommend shooting a stiffer spine or dropping the bow's draw weight by about 5#. Just as proper fit of the bow (draw length) is the most important requirement of a compound bow, proper arrow spine is one of the more important requirements for good arrow flight.

I surely will.. Already seen a nice carbon fiber arrow I liked to match the bow.. 60 dollars though.. As of right now though I am shooting such tight groups it is unreal to me.. Sure I have shot some good groups in the past but this setup is really the next step up.

Destroyer
08-29-2011, 06:51 PM
Already seen a nice carbon fiber arrow I liked to match the bow.. 60 dollars though.

A $60 arrow! :p

Arrow Splitter
08-30-2011, 02:37 AM
A $60 arrow! :pLOL that's mean!!:D

RLW
08-30-2011, 04:53 AM
Jason,

Reading this has me curious.......could you post what your arrows are, including vane type and point weight?
And maybe which arrows you're looking?




The mention of arrow price reminds me of a conversation I was having with a coworker/friend of mine.
I was whining about hitting and breaking nock and damaging one of Beman ICS Hunter arrows while practicing, and that I was out a $7 bill.
This got us looking at his little toothpick target arrows........Easton A/C/E shafts, break-away target point, vanes, A/C?E pin and pin nock.......dang!!! worked out to over $30/arrow. Good thing is they are extremely durable and long lasting when traget shooting (& it helped that Easton provided his)

bfisher
08-30-2011, 08:37 AM
If you think ACE's are expensive try pricing X10 Protours. Now there's a target arrow!!!!!!

RLW
08-30-2011, 09:15 AM
If you think ACE's are expensive try pricing X10 Protours. Now there's a target arrow!!!!!!

oops, I mispoke......I keep thinking they are A/C/E, but went back and looked again. His Easton provided arrows are the tapered X10 450 (pre protour label)
Just had it explained to me that the X10 was the recurve arrow the compound shooters liked and specially cut to stiffened up backend for thier release shooting, so Easton modied it a bit for thier needs and released as the X10 protour.........and closer to $50/arrow.
(sorry got a bit of topic here)

Jason
08-30-2011, 10:36 AM
Ill have to get to the arrows later.. And haha Destroyer you know I was talking about a half dozen or dozen arrows for $60.

I have a whole new problem. The adjustable piece held in by the module screws will not line up with the cam correctly and is eating through my cable.. Figuring this out now on the phone.

Jason
08-30-2011, 10:59 AM
I am not the best photographer and my camera is sub par at best. The top cam and adjustable module piece line up nicely to form a nice smooth channel when transferring from one channel to another.. The bottom cam does not. Its eating the cable.

Jason
08-30-2011, 11:01 AM
The alignment looks different from the top cam which is working real good. Probably hard to tell any alignment on the pictures but that is the best I tell by comparing the two.. Those pictures are all the faulty area though. Module screws will not go any tighter and that is the direction it needs to go to smooth up and line up the two channel. Cam warp?

MLN1963
08-30-2011, 12:31 PM
This should look familiar.

http://martinarchery.com/mtechforum/showthread.php?9589-Nitro-2.0-Cam-Draw-Module-Misalignment-Cutting-The-Cable-Serving

Jason
08-30-2011, 01:09 PM
This should look familiar.

http://martinarchery.com/mtechforum/showthread.php?9589-Nitro-2.0-Cam-Draw-Module-Misalignment-Cutting-The-Cable-Serving

Yes sir it does.. I have been through that thread a couple times before I purchased.. One those it wont happen to me moments I guess..

Destroyer
08-30-2011, 03:02 PM
Doesn't look that bad Jason, have a look at the original cable on my Bear.

4132

Jason
08-30-2011, 04:06 PM
Man that is tore up Destroyer. Same problem with your Bear? Mine has only had 30 shots through it though.. Joel and Brandon are going to set me up pretty well though. They worked out a pretty good solution for me with it being so close to season at my request. Basically I am going to keep a close eye on the area. I am going to sight in my 30 and 40 and not shoot it anymore unless there is a deer in front of me. Joel has me a set of cables on the way in case something would happen in the next 3 months. Following the last day of season the bow is going back and the cam spacing or what ever the found problem is they are going to fix it. Agreed it has been a poor experience with a brand new bow far as problems but as the rest have said I will have to give them this. They have excellent customer support and that is hard to come by.. Im sure all the folks over at Martin are good people but this next run of bows are going to need a better quality product leaving the factory. Not that 2011 bows are bad but if you put a sticker on a bow with your name on it saying you assembled it and another saying you inspected it I think that needs to say something. If you have to reject 300 bows then that is what it will take.

Do you guys think a serving band aid would be safe to prolong the affected area? Just a thin layer? I do not want it to jump off the cam though. Maybe even dental floss? Maybe I am talking stupid but I am trying to think of something to ensure I get through the season safely. Thankfully the top cam is working great so far.

Hey have I told you guys.. You all have been great so far as well.. Something I hope Martin realizes, they have an excellent customer, member base, etc.

bfisher
08-30-2011, 04:44 PM
Jason, this is hard to mess up. Take the module off the cam and see if something is behind it. Maybe lay it on a piece of glass or countertop and see if it's warped or bent. If it is then you should be able to straighten it out enough to get you through season and new parts arrive.

Jason
08-30-2011, 05:19 PM
Jason, this is hard to mess up.

Haha bfisher! What are you trying to say? lol

Destroyer
08-30-2011, 06:21 PM
Serving with halo fixes it but I guess dental floss should work. I once pulled the 'x-coat' of a winners choice string and it looked like dental floss lol!

Jason
08-30-2011, 06:49 PM
Serving with halo fixes it but I guess dental floss should work. I once pulled the 'x-coat' of a winners choice string and it looked like dental floss lol!

Thanks. I am going to take out the module screws and look it over good to see if anything will lay back in place correctly which I do not in any way see happening so a band aid it will most likely be for now.

j-bo
08-31-2011, 05:38 AM
You're nicer than me. I would of had them send me a pre-paid shipping label. Boxed it up, sent it to them, and have them send me a ready to shoot bow. Take what... 5 days? Plenty enough time to get ready for the season.

Good Luck to ya!

bfisher
08-31-2011, 06:26 AM
Haha bfisher! What are you trying to say? lol

Bad choice of words Jason. Maybe it would have been better to say it's and easy check if you know how to remove a module. Some people don't know how, you know. In fact some don't even know what the parts of a bow are, but will spend $900 to get one because their friends have one. You get my drift?

Jason
08-31-2011, 06:53 AM
You're nicer than me Good Luck to ya!

Im turning over a new leaf in my life. Trying to get rid of anguish and discontent.

Jason
08-31-2011, 06:58 AM
Bad choice of words Jason. Maybe it would have been better to say it's and easy check if you know how to remove a module. Some people don't know how, you know. In fact some don't even know what the parts of a bow are, but will spend $900 to get one because their friends have one. You get my drift?

I was only poking fun. I know you did not mean anything by it. Also agree with your statement of. I still learn a lot but I do ok having a little common sense I just talk to some of you guys cause I know your more experienced and its good to pass an idea or situation past a few different minds. Im certainly no bow tech either but I learned all the parts of my bow before I bought and researched it for probably 4 months. Good to understand what you are paying for.

Thanks.

bfisher
08-31-2011, 07:42 AM
I know you were just poking fun. That's why we all use those three letters. LOL. It's good that we on this forum get along so well and can laugh at/with each other. The whole world could use a little more of it. Carry on, Jason.

j-bo
08-31-2011, 08:33 AM
Im turning over a new leaf in my life. Trying to get rid of anguish and discontent.

:p Brilliant reply.:cool:

Jason
08-31-2011, 02:17 PM
:p Brilliant reply.:cool:

Haha j-bo thanks.

Shot this bow a good 40 times today.. So accurate. So quiet. 20-30-40 all sighted in with nice groups. Shots were very flat. Minimal pin differences for the increased yardage. The only thing that makes any noise enough to mention is the drop away rest on the shot. The fletching clears its just the noise of it dropping. Im so ready for October 1st