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droppixel
09-03-2011, 06:36 AM
I have been looking around a little on this lately and I know there is a thread lingering around here. Is there a significant performance difference with a 60# bow that is maxed - figured maybe 60-63# if bottomed out? - compared to a 70# that is backed down to 62-64#?

I currently have a 70# that I am pulling 64-67, don't know exactly, and don't have any problems with it. I don't know that I'll really ever need to shoot a full 70#, but could if I really wanted to - so that had me thinking about maybe getting 60# for my next bow. I was reading on AT some guys that like the 60# and are getting pretty good numbers in fps/KE for hunting as well.

Thoughts?

Hutch~n~Son Archery
09-03-2011, 08:12 AM
I never saw a difference. I have had both one at 60lbs and one set a 63lbs. Both Bengals. Both shot well. Both preformed well.





HUTCH:cool:

Sharxfan
09-03-2011, 09:20 AM
I have the 70# limbs on my Onza but it is set to 62# or thereabouts. I got it that way so that I can work my way back up to 70# after hunting season is over to late now to mess with it and then have to resight and everything else. It seems to shoot just fine to me.

bfisher
09-03-2011, 09:56 AM
Take a 60# bow set for 60# and a 70# bow backed down to 60# and the former will perform better, but it very very slight. The 60#er will be a little more quiet because the rigging is tighter and it will be just a couple fps faster because it is being used more efficiently, but let's put it this way. If you once draw 70# and now prefer to shoot 60-62# the difference is not worth going out and buying another bow----unless you just have a hankering for something new or are looking for a divorce or an excuse for getting one. LOL.

If you are getting a new one or just starting out then you'll find that most 60#ers will peak out at about 61# to 63# anyway. A couple twists to the cables could make it upwards of 65# which really isn't going to hurt anything, especially the limbs. Those same limbs on a bow with different geometry might be used for 70#.

droppixel
09-03-2011, 12:09 PM
Take a 60# bow set for 60# and a 70# bow backed down to 60# and the former will perform better, but it very very slight. The 60#er will be a little more quiet because the rigging is tighter and it will be just a couple fps faster because it is being used more efficiently, but let's put it this way. If you once draw 70# and now prefer to shoot 60-62# the difference is not worth going out and buying another bow----unless you just have a hankering for something new or are looking for a divorce or an excuse for getting one. LOL.

If you are getting a new one or just starting out then you'll find that most 60#ers will peak out at about 61# to 63# anyway. A couple twists to the cables could make it upwards of 65# which really isn't going to hurt anything, especially the limbs. Those same limbs on a bow with different geometry might be used for 70#.

Good deal. Yeah, I'm planning on a second bow eventually. Not in any rush to do so just yet. I shoot the 08 Cheetah in my sig right now and I have it a few turns out. It is comfortable right now where it is, can shoot for a while without getting tired and like I said if I wanted to I could crank it down, I would just want to get some heavier arrows first. I like the idea of if I am only pulling the 60-65# range, to just go for a 60# bow and have the chance that it will shoot better than the same with 70# limbs backed out.

Destroyer
09-03-2011, 03:51 PM
Some 60# only go to 58#. The only issue I have with winding a bow down is noise sometimes. It makes the limbs more parallel which could be a problem with certain limbs too. You might find that 67# suits you just fine and I wouldn't try to get that sort of weight out of a 60#.

I don't think a 60# bow maxed out @ 60# will be much faster than a 70# @ 60# anyway. At least with the 70# you can increase the weight easily.

Money Man
09-03-2011, 07:48 PM
I am not sure if they still offer them, but my bow is an 02 and it is 50-65 lbs. The shop owner said he had to call and order it that way, but if it is still something that can be done it may give you another option.

rbell420
09-12-2011, 05:24 PM
I have been looking around a little on this lately and I know there is a thread lingering around here. Is there a significant performance difference with a 60# bow that is maxed - figured maybe 60-63# if bottomed out? - compared to a 70# that is backed down to 62-64#?

I currently have a 70# that I am pulling 64-67, don't know exactly, and don't have any problems with it. I don't know that I'll really ever need to shoot a full 70#, but could if I really wanted to - so that had me thinking about maybe getting 60# for my next bow. I was reading on AT some guys that like the 60# and are getting pretty good numbers in fps/KE for hunting as well.

Thoughts?

There are a number of ways to increase bow speed. types of strings and cables. lose of cable twist. going with a lighter spined arrow and lighter broadhead. speed balls. string silencers. the type of peep sight. to name a few.

RLW
09-13-2011, 04:58 AM
Take a 60# bow set for 60# and a 70# bow backed down to 60# and the former will perform better, but it very very slight. The 60#er will be a little more quiet because the rigging is tighter and it will be just a couple fps faster because it is being used more efficiently........
I haven't compared any in many years, but that had been mine finding also.......on couple pairs of bows I tried, it was a bit more improvement on the quieter part than the speed gain.

bfisher
09-13-2011, 05:15 AM
OK so we're talking about a second bow somewhere down the road. In terms of speed try doing it this way. Instead of the slow single cam try a 60# bow with the Cat/Nitro or whatever the name will be changed to at the time. The binary cam is about 15 to 20 fps faster than the single cam when both bows are set up the same. Or you have the option of shooting your present arrows and getting the same speed, but at about 8# less draw weight. This 8# less makes the binary cam feel a lot smoother, very close in feel to the single cam.

Put another way to get the same speed you have to shoot the single cam bow at 7-8# more draw weight than the binary.

droppixel
09-13-2011, 10:02 AM
OK so we're talking about a second bow somewhere down the road. In terms of speed try doing it this way. Instead of the slow single cam try a 60# bow with the Cat/Nitro or whatever the name will be changed to at the time. The binary cam is about 15 to 20 fps faster than the single cam when both bows are set up the same. Or you have the option of shooting your present arrows and getting the same speed, but at about 8# less draw weight. This 8# less makes the binary cam feel a lot smoother, very close in feel to the single cam.

Put another way to get the same speed you have to shoot the single cam bow at 7-8# more draw weight than the binary.

Yeah, eventually I will look at another. I am sure it would be one of the newer duals that are out there. I like the single, have no complaints on it. The older cheetah my dad has that I had been shooting had a dual cam conversion on it, but was still set for 67-70#

At the same time with the original post, looking back on it, I don't know that I am going to be completely obsessed with speed, but rather overall performance and efficiency. The speed is a bonus - the quietness is a must. This is all speculation to something I haven't even had a chance to witness first hand yet, with my lighter arrow weight and the bow I have now. I honestly have no clue what speed this rig is getting, but I like how it shoots right now. I figure, if in the future, I have something that is naturally faster than my current, I could go to a heavier arrow and gain some more energy and momentum. This could all be for not, if I find that my lighter arrow and general speed right now is more than enough for the type of hunting I will be doing.

I don't even know if any of that even makes sense.

wick
09-13-2011, 04:12 PM
Just sitting here reading this thread while watching ted nuggent hunt in his "sacred hunting ground" and he said he shoots his bow at 48 pounds... I don't know if we all make too much of a deal over speed and kinetic energy and all that stuff, but a quiet accurate shot will bring down anything. I had a complete pass through on a black bear years ago with a Darton trail master that Maxed out at 55 pounds or so. Shoot what your comfortable with.

Ehunter
09-13-2011, 04:39 PM
I think that just about any compound bow has plenty of KE to take down deer sized game. Kansas just passed a new reg that allows down to a 35 draw weight on longbows and recurves. I think even the Genesis and other kids compounds would create an equivalent energy. The general consensus is that 66# of KE is enough for dangerous game, and most bows come fairly close to that with a hunting set-up.

droppixel
09-13-2011, 05:23 PM
Just sitting here reading this thread while watching ted nuggent hunt in his "sacred hunting ground" and he said he shoots his bow at 48 pounds... I don't know if we all make too much of a deal over speed and kinetic energy and all that stuff, but a quiet accurate shot will bring down anything. I had a complete pass through on a black bear years ago with a Darton trail master that Maxed out at 55 pounds or so. Shoot what your comfortable with.

Squishy as he puts it. That is where this kinda came from. I wouldn't go down to a 50 - but a 60 i would have no problem with if it is going to give me the same thing I can get out of my 70. Nice thing is - either way - if I were to get a 60# for my next bow, I'm sure it will be naturally faster than my current set up anyway just because of higher IBO ratings.

Destroyer
09-13-2011, 06:29 PM
Kansas just passed a new reg that allows down to a 35 draw weight on longbows and recurves.

It can be enough but I hope they recommend fixed cut on impact heads otherwise some idiot might try using mechanical's! :eek:

droppixel
09-14-2011, 07:17 AM
It can be enough but I hope they recommend fixed cut on impact heads otherwise some idiot might try using mechanical's! :eek:

Agree - I think that should be a requirement at that low of a poundage.

Spiker
09-14-2011, 01:41 PM
I love shooting my little 52# Alien X and altho I have only used it to hunt Turkeys with, so far, I would not hesitate to use it on Deer, or even Elk.
It shoots a 386gn arrow at 281.5fps which is only 13.8fps slower than my 61.5# AX with the same arrow.

Destroyer
09-14-2011, 02:56 PM
It shoots a 386gn arrow at 281.5fps.

Similar speed to my 71# PSE Mach X, only 24 rains lighter? :eek:

droppixel
09-14-2011, 05:46 PM
I love shooting my little 52# Alien X and altho I have only used it to hunt Turkeys with, so far, I would not hesitate to use it on Deer, or even Elk.
It shoots a 386gn arrow at 281.5fps which is only 13.8fps slower than my 61.5# AX with the same arrow.

I would venture to say that is probably faster or just as fast as my Cheetah with my settings at 64ish# with around a 340grain arrow ... Thinking a 60# AX/Nemesis may be in my future if I come across a good deal ;)

RLW
09-15-2011, 04:33 AM
I would venture to say that is probably faster or just as fast as my Cheetah with my settings at 64ish# with around a 340grain arrow ... Thinking a 60# AX/Nemesis may be in my future if I come across a good deal ;)
Looks like you may be right.......Had a couple minutes so ran stated info w/couple assumptions thru program........using 305 IBO as low end of Cheetah, 64lbs, 29"draw, and a 100gr point on GT Velocity (not knowing, used 28" 400 w/Blazers so many others seem to use = 348gr), program calc'd out 277fps. Just under 60ft/lbs KE

Destroyer
09-15-2011, 02:40 PM
using 305 IBO as low end of Cheetah

A bit high imo, my Pantera's never went above 300 fps. As for Spikers speed, its just plain BS.

RLW
09-15-2011, 02:56 PM
A bit high imo........................
That was just low end of IBO specs the program has for the '08 Cheetah (305-310 IBO) Martin site specs show it 315-320 IBO

Destroyer
09-15-2011, 03:00 PM
Martin site specs show it 315-320 IBO

If only it was true.... :rolleyes:

droppixel
09-15-2011, 05:33 PM
Looks like you may be right.......Had a couple minutes so ran stated info w/couple assumptions thru program........using 305 IBO as low end of Cheetah, 64lbs, 29"draw, and a 100gr point on GT Velocity (not knowing, used 28" 400 w/Blazers so many others seem to use = 348gr), program calc'd out 277fps. Just under 60ft/lbs KE

I really need to chrono my bow - I would be satisfied with those numbers based on what I have invested in this bow and how well it shoots. That will give me an idea of where this really sits with the added weight on my string/etc. From there, might be able to use that info on one of the other higher IBO martin/rytera and get a better feel for what could be possible.

Turning into a good discussion, really appreciate all the input.

Destroyer
09-16-2011, 01:07 AM
I really need to chrono my bow

Its one of the biggest problems with forums when discussing speed, so many base what they are getting on a calculator like 'Software For Archers' which bases there IBO on manufacturer speeds. If you can chrono a bow with a few different weight arrows is gives a much clearer picture, just a pity they aren't more affordable.

justin
09-16-2011, 11:55 AM
I got my chrono on the cheap, back when i played paintball! There are some reasonable hand held units out there too.

droppixel
09-16-2011, 03:50 PM
I have a buddy that bought one of the stabilizer mounted ones - but he moved a few hours away. I might be going out that way sometime this fall or might get lucky and he might come back up this way. He was going to bring it last time he visited but forgot.

Got a semi-local pro-shop that has a similar chrono that they have said they would let me "rent" There is also BassPro - but it is like $15 for the range and another $10 for the chrono rental ... not all that worth it imo.

Spiker
09-16-2011, 03:57 PM
A bit high imo, my Pantera's never went above 300 fps. As for Spikers speed, its just plain BS.

No it is not BS.!
I've shot them thru my chrono.
I've shot them them thru the chrono's at two local shops.
It only varies by a couple fps between the three.
And my '09 Firecat is 4-5fps faster at 62# 29" than the 61.5# AX.

Spiker
09-16-2011, 04:14 PM
And to add fuel to the fire:
My 60# '09 AX came from a Rytera dealer that is not only highly respected as a dealer/shop owner/tuner etc...
but is also highly respected on this, and other, web sites.
It was originally his personal bow.
He had basically the same chrono results with it...
I can look it up to be certain but I think he had it at 290 with a 390.

justin
09-16-2011, 08:45 PM
Sounds close.... i get 285 with a 345 grn and 27.5 in draw at 62 lbs. The draw and aarow weight would nearly cancel i think.

Destroyer
09-17-2011, 01:51 AM
My 60# '09 AX came from a Rytera dealer that is not only highly respected as a dealer/shop owner/tuner etc...
but is also highly respected on this, and other, web sites.

JRH60 or archerx7? :p

Btw, how many stands of what material on this special 52# bow?

CarlosII
09-17-2011, 02:50 AM
not to highjack, but in terms of speed for binary vs. solo cam, i've found, or think i've found, that the amount of degrees of parallel of the limbs also can have a noticeable effect on speed when set at the same draw weight. using my chrono i've found that my diamond marquis ( single cam) can keep up with my shadowcat. I did find that the bowtech brigadier was slower than either the diamond or the shadowcat.

just my observation.