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NeilMac
09-04-2011, 12:08 AM
There is a thread on another forum where the question has been asked about the mechanical integrity of the Shadowcat riser.

I have two Cats and it is pretty obvious where the joints are on the three piece riser, but the bows shoot well and are as accurate as anything I have used in the past, so obviously the risers work.

Have there been any genuine cases of Shadowcat riser failure? Or is this another 'I heard of a guy who knew someone....' situation base one one or two isolated incidents?

Destroyer
09-04-2011, 01:19 AM
There is a thread on another forum where the question has been asked about the mechanical integrity of the Shadowcat riser.

Link? Found this but it might be the older model, posted June 29th, 2008 on AT.


first, an original shadowcat riser that broke under the grip. They used to drill out all the metal under the grip, I guess to make it lighter. I had too much backtension and not enough rotation.

second, the exact same thing happened to the replacement riser

Hutch~n~Son Archery
09-04-2011, 04:46 AM
This is the link I believe http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1568727




Hutch:cool:

NeilMac
09-04-2011, 07:33 AM
That's the one Hutch.

It's the comment about the 2010 Shadowcat that has me scratching my head. I don't want to call anybody out, without good cause, but two broken risers with the same owner has me puzzled.

Hutch~n~Son Archery
09-04-2011, 07:45 AM
Not saying it isn't martins fault but not 100% it is. My Bengal is a 3 piece riser and it seems to be no different then a one piece. Now I treat my bow nice and keep it tuned No banging, dry fires etc. How does he treat his bow. Also how does he tune his bow. Another thing is the story true. I have seen some stories on AT that are not true. Just to cause trouble. A lot of info is missing.


Hutch:cool:

NeilMac
09-04-2011, 07:52 AM
My thoughts exactly.

Sharxfan
09-04-2011, 08:08 AM
I know it isn't a Shadowcat but I think I can see where the Onza is a 3 pieces riser and I haven't seen any shifting or felt any movement in it. With the camo dip jobs you would be able to see the slighest shift in the riser as the camo pattern would not line up anymore.

EnglishKev
09-04-2011, 08:59 AM
I know it isn't a Shadowcat but I think I can see where the Onza is a 3 pieces riser and I haven't seen any shifting or felt any movement in it. With the camo dip jobs you would be able to see the slighest shift in the riser as the camo pattern would not line up anymore.

Yep, same with my Aliens.
I have total faith in the system.

Kev

Destroyer
09-04-2011, 03:12 PM
the dork was called out and the dork backed off.

Different post I think Sonny, arrowcrester was the one with the problem not eric schmaus.


I have a 2010 Shadowcat. The riser is made of three pieces. I had a problem with the connection between the top two pieces collapsing. To make a long story short Martin sent me a new riser, but it is also collapsing in the same place - NOT Good!

I wouldn't recomment buying one until Martin makes it with a one-piece solid riser.

CarlosII
09-05-2011, 05:40 PM
if i'm not mistaken the fella that won the senior open class at ASA shot a shadowcat. he's a machinist and said he took his riser apart and welded the dog gone thing back together. i guess he wanted to be sure. i spoke to him about it. he also removed all the finish from the riser and it looked pretty cool, all shiny aluminum like.

like i said, i could be mistaken...again.

Destroyer
09-05-2011, 06:42 PM
To do a better job of removing the finish maybe?

bfisher
09-06-2011, 05:57 AM
I can see someone welding the riser and blending the weld into the riser so it looks all one piece and pretty looking, but why take it apart?

How much do you know about welding? To do a proper job you can't just slap some weld on the surface. He took it apart to bevel the mating surfaces, creating a crevice for lack of a better word. Then he put it back together and filled the crevice with weld. The first pass of weld is called the root pass and is the most important one. After applying each pass the flux needs to be chipped or ground out so there are no imperfections or voids in the subsequent passes. after the last pass I would imagine he ground and polished the surface.

There is a problem with welding, though. I don't kow about aluminum but welding steel changes the molecular structure of the base metal. It weakens it. The weld, if done right, is actually stronger than the base metal.

NeilMac
09-06-2011, 06:31 AM
I would have thought the riser would warp like crazy during welding, unless it were jigged up, and even then it would require heat treating.

It can be done, but it would be an awful lot of work for a bow that already works fine for most of us.

Destroyer
09-06-2011, 03:07 PM
I wouldn't weld it at all, I hate welding alloys! ;)

CarlosII
09-06-2011, 04:16 PM
hey, i'm just telllin' it like i heard it...don't kill the messenger.

when i was a teenager and deep into drag racing, i knew a guy who could weld two pieces of tissue paper together. i know i saw him weld two pieces of reynold's aluminum foil back together once...:rolleyes:

Don B
09-07-2011, 10:16 AM
Both of my Shadowcats risers have shifted. You can see the line in the new paint jobs I did on them. But both of them still shoot great.
Don.

Destroyer
09-07-2011, 03:10 PM
Both of my Shadowcats risers have shifted.

Shifted or was it just the paint falling off? :eek:

Don B
09-07-2011, 04:06 PM
Both my Cats are 2010's one with Banrsdale limbs and one with the power tuff limbs.
You can see the crack in the new paint right at the seem of the parts of the risers.
They both shoot fine though.
Don.

Don B
09-08-2011, 01:23 AM
I don't want new risers, I like the way the paint turned out. And the bows shoot fine.
Don.

Don B
09-08-2011, 08:40 AM
Just so long as you understand you may be risking injury, not that I expect it, but one never knows.

What should I do? Call Martin and tell them, then send them pictures?
Don.

Don B
09-08-2011, 10:07 AM
I would, both call and send pics. I'd hate to see you have one fail and be injured or at the least lose a bow for not reporting it - save your email and whatever email you get in return.

Forgot. Some the 2010s got out with the the dowel hole too shallow or the dowel too long or maybe the bolts. I forget which. This is why mine had to go back. The Shadowcat I got back the 2011 seem solid as rock.

Sonny,
In the new 2011 catalog they say the Shadowcat has a CNC machined solid block alum. riser, did they do away with the 3 piece units for 2011?
Who is it I would talk to at Martin?
Don.

jdduffy
09-08-2011, 02:00 PM
Sonny,
In the new 2011 catalog they say the Shadowcat has a CNC machined solid block alum. riser, did they do away with the 3 piece units for 2011?
Who is it I would talk to at Martin?
Don.

that's the trick wording they use to deceive you.it is machined from solid aluminum,but 3 different pieces of solid aluminum!!!!!!!

Destroyer
09-08-2011, 04:40 PM
Forgot. Some the 2010s got out with the the dowel hole too shallow or the dowel too long or maybe the bolts. I forget which.

:eek:


that's the trick wording they use to deceive you.it is machined from solid aluminum,but 3 different pieces of solid aluminum!!!!!!!

Yes and what is this 'block' is actually made from, cast, forged, etc? Martin needs to use extruded one piece risers.

Destroyer
09-08-2011, 08:54 PM
One, machining a large piece there is a possibility of heat build up and if screwed up through maching that's one long chunk of aluminum to toss in the scrap tub.

With cnc's its not likely but having one piece is more expensive in the first place, needs a larger chunk of metal which means more waste. That's why extruding the basic shape of the riser makes so much sense, its stronger, wastes very little.


Two, if the riser were to bend wouldn't it be cheaper to just replace the bent section instead of the whole riser? I don't know, but thought it should be brought up.

Perhaps but does it happen? I don't think that is the reason behind the 3 piece riser, smaller block less cost.