View Full Version : Pantera noise, arrow, and rest questions
08-20-2007, 03:42 PM
i just got a Pantera and right off, i like it (yes, it is a touch heavy) but it isn't as quiet as i thought it would be and it doesn't seem to like my Trophy Taker Shakey Hunter very well.
27" draw length
26" cx200 w/ 2" Blazers, 85g thunderheads
Shakey Hunter drop away
trophy ridge 5 pin matrix
kwickey kwiver 3 arrow (i have noticed more noise coming from this so i usually take it off)
tru fire patriot release
any suggestions on killing noise (have the limb savers and has bow jax on string - H&M string)????
my arrow only weighs ~285g, is that too light? i ask because the CX website says that arrow at that length should be good to 70+ lbs but i get less noise when i shoot my friends CX300s and i get a low-right tear in the paper.
i am getting rub marks on my fletchings indicating my arrow is contacting my rest or something...everything looks right. my local bow guy says that the Pantera is near impossible to tune/get to work with drop away rests and i might have to go to a WB??? anyone know why that would be????
thanks for any input. i am posting here because i want answers from, well, martin people!!
08-20-2007, 08:49 PM
See if I can help you out. First things first is that there is nothing magical about the Pantera that would preclde the Shaky Hunter from working on it. It's just another bow. How's the timing of the rest? It should come up to shooting height in the last 1" to 2" of your draw. If it comes up earlieer then it's not set right and will not get down by the time your fletching passes.
You say your arrows weigh what? 285 grains? Does that include the tips? If not then yes, they are on the light side. Looking for 5 gr/lb minimum your total arrow weight needs to be at least 315 grains. This will keep you within warranty parameters and give the best performance for the bow weight. However, the lighter the arrow the more noise the bow will make. It's a tradeoff. Speed for noise. For what it's worth, I have shot the same setup as you and the arrows are spined correctly. Nothing wrong at all here.
OK, let's get to the bow. Another thing that can cause noise is cam over-rotation. Check and maybe lay with the cam rotation. Normally twisting the string some under-rotates the cam and makes the bow more quiet. Don't assume it was properly set at the factory before shipping. The guys building the bows don't spend that kind of time on them.
While we're looking at cams take a look and see if the idler wheel is leaning. If it is then you need to twist up the appropriate side of the cable yoke.
I have, on occasion had noise not only from a Quikee quiver, but even after taking it off I noticed a slight buzz just from the spring steel locking lever on the mount.
Are you shooting a loop? In any case, you shot your buddy's arrows and got a low right tear. The 300's are too stiff, but may paper tune well. I'm thinking that a right tear often points to the idler lean issue. LOW might mean you need to raise your nocking point (loop). Don't assume that all bows shoot an arrow perfectly 90 degrees to the string. Actually most bows shoot better with a slightly high nocking point Ask any good target shooter with a launcher style rest (what I like). You tune the bow to shoot the arrow.
For your info, I shoot a Pantera with Nitrous X cams and it's quiet as any bow I've ever shot even in IBO trim.
08-20-2007, 09:54 PM
thank you for the valuable information.
i will check on some of those things, as well as i can--i am not a complete newbie to bowhunting, just to the tuning aspects. it's funny, i was shooting a fairly basic HCA bow that i never messed with, tuning-wise and now i have a superior bow that i am tinkering with to no end!!! :o
a couple of points of clarification:
i shot the paper with the CX200 at about 6' (sorry, i did make it sound like i shot the 300 through paper)
also, the arrow weight was with the tip. so, apparently, i need to find about 30 more grains??? if i go to a 125g thunderhead, will that throw my arrow balance all askew? how else do i gain back arrow weight without going to the CX300 that is overspined?
i do shoot a loop.
nitrous cams, eh? maybe that'll be my next mod :eek:
08-21-2007, 12:50 PM
Without having arrow charts in front of me I don't know what will ahppen by usning a 125gr head on the CX 200. Might be underspined slightly You might look at weight tubes for insde the shaft, whic I think Carbon Express offers. You're so close on the weight issue that maybe you could go from the 85gr head to 100gr and just drop the peak weight by 3#. There are so many options.
If you want to play with CX 300's it could also work for you. Stiffer arrows don't always shoot so badly, especially with broadheads. You'd also have the option of raising the peak weight into the mid to upper 60's.
To expand on the Nitrous cam comment. A lot of guys like the M-Pro cam because it draws easy for a given peak weight. I haven't shot it myself because I've gravitated back to dual cams since shooting for Martin. I had my fill of single cam issues such as cam-lean and level nock travel. I shot single cams for about 7 years and contrary to some popular opinion I just don't feel they are the cat's meow in archery. Too many issues that are finally being addressed in recent years. I'll take a good dual cam bow like I had years ago.
I think some of the advantage of the Nitrous over the M-Pro is that with he Nitrous and two (or four) cables you can twist the cable yokes to completely eliminate cam-leanwhich means more linear string travel during the shot. Also, because the Nitrous is more agressive I can get similar speed to the M-Pro while shooting about 7 to 8# less peak weight. This makes the Nitrous feel just as smooth as the M-Pro, but there is a little less feel of a valley with the Nitrous. And frankly, I don't care how SMOOTH a cam feels, if the bow is 70# it's 70# and you still have to roll the cam over.
In my case I get about the same speed at 53# that I'd get with the M-Proat 60#. Why pull the weight if I don't need to. Lord knows my body is beat up enough from a couple hundred thousand shots over the years. MRI's and XRays of the shoulder confirm this. Repetitive motion does wear things out, shoulders included.
I like to equate bows with refrigerators.They're all overpriced junk. Just some junk is better than others.
Nice talking with ya. If you have a lot more questions I'd suggest sticking around here. I like to help. Also a good site is www.archerytalk.com. I frequent that one, too. 70,000 or so members so there's always somebody with knowledge there.
08-21-2007, 02:44 PM
thanks again for the help. i am sure i will have many more questions and i welcome the help!
it looks like i am kind of in a quandry when it comes to the arrow strength and length, huh?
i will check some measurements, etc to see what i can figure out then go to work on the arrows.
any other suggestions?
the more i read, the more i am convinced that a dual cam is the way to go -- kind of a bummer since i just bought this Pantera and the wife isn't too happy about that! is it easy(ish) to change cams?
thanks again - oh, and i do frequent archerytalk under the same moniker.
08-21-2007, 03:42 PM
my measurements seem to be close.
my brace height (measured from riser to string) is 7"
my ATA is long by 1/8" - is that a problem?
the idler wheel doesnt seem to be leaned (would the wheel itself be tilted?)
how do i check timing?
how do i check cam rotation?
i checked the tech manual for these answers and more but can find none :(
08-21-2007, 06:15 PM
If the measurements are close then the bow is close. The measurements are only approximates anyway and they are taken with the limbs bottomed out.
I honestly don't know how to check the cam rotation. What I have is a general knowledge that most cams (dual or single) tend to produce more noise and vibration if they are over rotated. The bow will tend to get a little more speed and produce slightly more letoff, but you end up with more vibration. Twisting the string to move the cam rotation a little less often helps smooth things out.
Here's an easy way to check cam-lean. Hold an arrow along the side of the idler wheel with the shaft extending along the string oward the nocking point. OH, it has to be a straight arrow (just fuuing with ya). Anyway, the arrow should extend parallel to the string. It's just an eyeball type of check, but it's close enough for government work.
Just another plug for the Nitrous cams now. The Pantera with Nitrous X cams can be adjusted so there is NO cam lean, ever, or in any position. I have three bows with it on and I'm going to convert my new S4/Furious cam to it. The bows tune easier, too, and because there are four cables less tendency for them to creep, thus they stay in tune. It's a different system and takes some getting used to. Not always for everybody, but I know very few people who have an X cammed bow that don't like it over a cable guard. One pitfall is that you may have to change limbs, and being as you are already in trouble it's something you might consider waiting to do. LOL.
Something I guess I should have asked is whether you have checked the other accessoriesto see if they are contributing to the noise. The fact that you are shooting such a light arrow might be that some of the extra vibration is rattling the sight or rest. I honestly think a heavier arrow would help you immensely. Don't foget that releases make noise and they are right there next to your ear. Also consider that sometimes your ears are just too sensitive.
I wear hearing aids and have about a 40% hearing loss so all bows are quiet to me.
Don't know if you'll ever get to chrono the bow but Ill give my specs and results for comparison. My bow has the Nitrous C Base cams with the X system and mini-modules. Brace is 6 7/8" and A2A is 35 3/4". Bow is set at 53# and 27" draw. My arrows are Golt Tip UL 500's 27" long with 2" Duravanes and 80 grain glue in target tips and the total arrow weight is 267 grains---IBO legal at 5gr/lb. The bow shoots 287fps, quietly. This is with factory strings.
09-09-2007, 07:59 PM
thanks again for the info...i have been tinkering. i think i may have screwed something up, 'cause my rest now comes up about when it should then starts to go back down if i pull back a little more. i don't quite understand all of the intricacies of the compound bow, but i'm learning!!!
09-09-2007, 09:52 PM
i had some noise issue's when i put on my trap door rest "notoriously noisy" un like your trophy taker that is nice an quiet ...i put on thoes little limb savers on my rest body and sight bracket and it was amazing the difference it made ....so when you get everything in tune and you want to go a little bit quiter try thoes little limb savers on whatever seems like it makes a little noise and you will be in bizz.......good huntin to ya!!!
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