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peace
10-08-2011, 10:41 AM
I would like to see a 35" or 36" ATA bow with single and or dual cams that included a 31" draw length similar to the Rytera Alien Z. That is all I am looking for, anywhere from 320 fps plus would be quite satisfactory.



4655

Smarten Up and Martin Up

justin
10-08-2011, 10:55 AM
I would like to see a little better qc, and maybe a 2010 warthog spec bow, in the rytera brand.

HawgEnvy
10-08-2011, 11:51 AM
anything w Barnesdale limbs and an actual BLACK finish and no mandatory carbon fiber look crap if ya want black. stainless steel stabilizer bushings. the ability to swap from a single cam to hybrid/dual/binary cams w/o worrying about swapping limbs,too.

Double S
10-08-2011, 12:32 PM
A pro series Recurve bow ILF take down. Similar to Hoyt Excels, formula excel, or formula RX.

NeilMac
10-08-2011, 12:35 PM
In 2012:

I would like a return to anodised riser finish, or a better powder coat finish.

Do not drop the Shadowcat from the range, as there are precious few 40" ATA bows left (especially if you do not care for Hoyt's styling).

cyclepath
10-08-2011, 07:55 PM
I would like to see some bows that actually live up to the specs they claim. A single and dual cam bow, no hybrid cams. I kinda like the looks of their bows right now. I hope they come out with something that works instead of having to replace it cause it didn't work.

MLN1963
10-08-2011, 09:12 PM
I would like to see some bows that actually live up to the specs they claim.

1. Bingo! Just as Cyclepath said. Many other brand bows are MUCH closer to spec so I know Martin can do it too. Actually, I would like to see all of the single cams IBO at 330 or higher just like Diamond. That always gets people's attention. A real 325 would be nice even.

2. Bows leaving the shop in a near perfect state of tune. Take the time and get it right so the shop selling it or customer doesn't have to do it. My bow was so out of wack that it wasn't funny. My timing was way off, my poundage was low. It never should have left Martin that way!

3. A more durable camo dip. Mine is very thin easily damaged. When I put some blue easy release painters tape on it to protect it while working on it and when I removed it the camo came off. I would have been better off not trying to protect it. Preferably do like BT/Diamond and do the clear rubberized coating. That is really a nice feature, really nice!

4. Continue to be innovative, but don't release something until it has been thoroughly tested in the field by many people. The TRG experiment never should have made it into production. It is a good idea that needs a little more R&D.

5. Don't rest your reputation on customer service. Get it right and let CS feel like the Maytag repairman of years gone buy. Lonely!

Magnus777
10-08-2011, 10:28 PM
Excellent thread!

I would like to see the "Cougar" re-introduced as Martin's flagship model. There is a reason there's a cougar on Martin's logo...use it! Of course, I say that, and when/if it happens the thing will be ugly as a rusty pipe wrench! NO MORE UGLY BOWS! And while we're at it, how about Martin starting a trend where we see a resurgence of bows with a buttery smooth draw, and less radical cams? There are still some archers that think a forgiving bow with repeatable accuracy, that is pleasurable to shoot is where it's at, and don't believe speed is the be all, end all.

Another thing I would like to see from Martin is a bump up in QUALITY. Take a little more time with the fit and finish. Maybe invest in some new coating technology for the hard parts. Some of these bows are used, and hunted with, over all types of terrain, in all types of weather. They don't live a pampered existence in a climate controlled vault, and may not only get taken out for range days, and matches. But I've seen many retail shop bows still hanging on the rack with rust already starting on the limb bolts, c-clips, etc. I know corrosion is something I really have to watch on my own bows to keep it in check...and that's not an easy thing to do without resorting to stinky, sticky, greasy solvents, cleaners, and lubricants.

gravedigger
10-09-2011, 08:40 AM
, I would like to see all of the single cams IBO at 330 or higher just like Diamond. That always gets people's attention. A real 325 would be nice even.

!

diamond black ice is rated at 310-318 IBO,so i dont think they are all 330 or better.
http://www.diamondarchery.com/bow_blackice_flx_2010.php

MLN1963
10-09-2011, 08:54 AM
Gravediggity

The Black Ice is no longer in production, it went the way of the Bengal. :p

All the full sized adult bows are as stated: Outlaw (330 fps), Fugitive (337 fps), Dead Eye (343 fps)

gravedigger
10-09-2011, 08:57 AM
Gravediggity

The Black Ice is no longer in production, it went the way of the Bengal. :p

All the full sized adult bows are as stated: Outlaw (330 fps), Fugitive (337 fps), Dead Eye (343 fps)

dang what is up with the good looking bows getting the chop,i like the look of the black ice.as for the bengal,martin just gave it a year off to relax.:p

MLN1963
10-09-2011, 09:08 AM
Check out the Outlaw, it is the Black Ice replacement and a dang nice looking bow and great performer as well.

http://www.diamondarchery.com/#/productBreakdown?r=products_products&i=27

Anyway, the point is Martin has some work to do and I hope they take it to the next level and prove they are really in the game and not just willing to hang on by their claws.

Arrow Splitter
10-09-2011, 10:11 AM
Gravediggity

it went the way of the Bengal. :p

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=1179694&d=1317925230&thumb=1<-----2012

MLN1963
10-09-2011, 10:31 AM
That is yet to be seen. Besides, it will always be a re-badged Ridge Hunter if it comes out. :cool::p:rolleyes:

Arrow Splitter
10-09-2011, 11:17 AM
Besides, it will always be a re-badged Ridge Hunter if it comes out. :cool::p:rolleyes:http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-rolleyes010.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

peace
10-09-2011, 12:40 PM
A couple of things are clear from all of the posts in this thread so far is that Martin is loved by its customers and that it has some work to do to continue to serve them.

Many good suggestions from better quality control to tighter IBO tolerances, to suggestions for various flavors of bows. I like that competition recurve suggestion, plus the Bengal, Warthog, Cougar and ShadowCat requests. Could always bring back The Black Panther, I am still waiting, :cool:.

Speed sells, but sweet, smooth draw and dead in the hand fire maintains a customer for life. This has been some good reading, hope for some more.




4662

Smarten Up and Martin Up


A Backyard Champion Too! I Also Beat Myself!!!

gravedigger
10-09-2011, 04:17 PM
Besides, it will always be a re-badged Ridge Hunter if it comes out. :cool::p:rolleyes:
dont ya mean the ridge hunter will allway be a re-baded bengal.no matter how bad the ridge hunter wants to earn its name in the line up it will allway be trying to follow the bengal.:cool:

MLN1963
10-09-2011, 07:25 PM
dont ya mean the ridge hunter will allway be a re-baded bengal.no matter how bad the ridge hunter wants to earn its name in the line up it will allway be trying to follow the bengal.:cool:

It can't be, it was a totally new design for 2011. If they slap a Bengal name plate on it, it will still be a Ridge Hunter with a Bengal name plate. Unless it is a whole new design, not just a massage of the tried and true Ridge Hunter. :cool:

bfisher
10-10-2011, 03:51 AM
It can't be, it was a totally new design for 2011. If they slap a Bengal name plate on it, it will still be a Ridge Hunter with a Bengal name plate. Unless it is a whole new design, not just a massage of the tried and true Ridge Hunter. :cool:

Mark,

I tend to think the other way around. Although it was a newer design I still think of the Ridge Hunter as a renamed Bengal. The Bengal (Tiger?) was more in line with the Martin theme. The Bengal, being one of Martin's more popular bows the last few years, has name recognition whereas the Ridge Hunter will be a forgotten name in a short time.

peace
10-10-2011, 04:26 AM
I thought the big cats like to approach from over ridges just as we hunt that way sometimes, thus the name Ridge Hunter, as it kind of fits all the cats and hunters...JMHO :cool:


Smarten Up and Martin Up

CarlosII
10-10-2011, 05:35 AM
what .would i like to see from Martin for 2012? how about a conditional pardon for Sonny Thomas? just wonderin'...:cool:

CarlosII
10-10-2011, 05:37 AM
Seriously? I'd like to see a Shadow Cat single cam. My SC has a severe "bump" at the end of the draw cycle. Its bad enough that it sometimes causes the arrow to jump off the rest. Shouldn't do that.

peace
10-10-2011, 05:49 AM
what .would i like to see from Martin for 2012? how about a conditional pardon for Sonny Thomas? just wonderin'...:cool:

I miss Sonny too! Can only wait and see. I don't know all that went down, and thus I can't make a judgement, but I do miss his perspective.

MLN1963
10-10-2011, 06:39 AM
I don't know how much smother you can get than the Accu-Trak cams? My son's Pantera is ridiculously smooth to draw. Honestly they are getting binary cams so smooth I can't see a reason not to shoot one for the added flat trajectory. I can shoot my FC400 at 62# and get the same speed as a single cam at 70#. If you ever have a chance to shoot a BT Invasion you will wonder how they got a speed bow so smooth. It is really sweet for a 343 IBO bow. I think all companies will have cams like that real soon.

MLN1963
10-10-2011, 06:43 AM
Mark,

I tend to think the other way around. Although it was a newer design I still think of the Ridge Hunter as a renamed Bengal. The Bengal (Tiger?) was more in line with the Martin theme. The Bengal, being one of Martin's more popular bows the last few years, has name recognition whereas the Ridge Hunter will be a forgotten name in a short time.

I'm just giggin' Gravedigger and I figured Hutch would chime in too. :cool:

Like I said, it will always be a re-badged Ridge Hunter. :p

Magnus777
10-10-2011, 05:17 PM
Mark,

I tend to think the other way around. Although it was a newer design I still think of the Ridge Hunter as a renamed Bengal. The Bengal (Tiger?) was more in line with the Martin theme. The Bengal, being one of Martin's more popular bows the last few years, has name recognition whereas the Ridge Hunter will be a forgotten name in a short time.

I agree whole-heartedly, Martin is a brand that has, over a very long period of time, built valuable name recognition within it's model line-up. Even though each new generation of bow may be quite different, with nothing carried over from the older model, carrying forward the model name itself gives a customer piece of mind in knowing what to expect. Tossing out the old names, and replacing them with models that don't even fit within the Martin heritage gives a loyal, repeat customer pause...it is an unknown. This is such a powerful factor that name alone may keep an otherwise exemplary model from catching on, and rebuilding that customer following lost after the old, familar model was dropped, itself having to be dropped after a short time as a result, and restarted again with yet another new name! Mistakes like this cost a company MONEY!

Magnus777
10-10-2011, 05:21 PM
I thought the big cats like to approach from over ridges just as we hunt that way sometimes, thus the name Ridge Hunter, as it kind of fits all the cats and hunters...JMHO :cool:


Smarten Up and Martin Up

Hunting a long, wide ridge can be very successful. But I would avoid coming up over a ridge, and skylighting myself at all costs. I really do wonder what the logic was in choosing this model name. Something that puzzles me even more..."THRESHOLD"! Where did THAT come from?

Sledge

bcriner
10-10-2011, 05:51 PM
I would love to see the following:

1. Keep the heritage names...Cougar, Bengal and Firecat
2. Return to anodized target finishes...flat black, red, emerald green and gold (Martin's corporate colors)
3. New X cams with smooth draw but hard wall made for the Shadowcat for a return to Martin indoor dominance of the '80s and '90s
4. New Warthog spec bow around 35-36" with true IBO of 350 for the speed nuts
5. New single cam with no hump but more aggressive design to get speeds in the 335s
6. Barnesdale LImbs
7. better QC to have all bows tuned and in spec when they leave with speed and spec tag on it
8. all bows measured with IBO specs when they leave based on a loop and not just naked string
9. all film dip finishes should be have a hard clear duracoat finish applied
10. stainless steel or chrome plated hardware for all tournament finishes like the old chrome of the '80s
11. get away from the film dip carbon finish limbs. Replace them with high gloss metal flake silver or black with a durable clear coat finish and bright, full color logos under the duracoat.

That is it. Not too much on my list. :-)

bob cooly
10-10-2011, 06:02 PM
I would like to have a full refund for any one who is owning a martin bow with the trg/sos system. Make it contingent on buying a new Martin or Rytera bow.

MLN1963
10-10-2011, 06:48 PM
I would love to see the following:

1. Keep the heritage names...Cougar, Bengal and Firecat
2. Return to anodized target finishes...flat black, red, emerald green and gold (Martin's corporate colors)
3. New X cams with smooth draw but hard wall made for the Shadowcat for a return to Martin indoor dominance of the '80s and '90s
4. New Warthog spec bow around 35-36" with true IBO of 350 for the speed nuts
5. New single cam with no hump but more aggressive design to get speeds in the 335s
6. Barnesdale LImbs
7. better QC to have all bows tuned and in spec when they leave with speed and spec tag on it
8. all bows measured with IBO specs when they leave based on a loop and not just naked string
9. all film dip finishes should be have a hard clear duracoat finish applied
10. stainless steel or chrome plated hardware for all tournament finishes like the old chrome of the '80s
11. get away from the film dip carbon finish limbs. Replace them with high gloss metal flake silver or black with a durable clear coat finish and bright, full color logos under the duracoat.

That is it. Not too much on my list. :-)

I'm seeing a lot of commonality between many Martin shooters. There is at least one company out there that does many of these things already and they have gone from upstart to a major player in about 20 years (minus the flashy paint jobs). With 60 plus years in the business you would think Martin would want their piece of the pie back!

Magnus777
10-10-2011, 07:19 PM
I would love to see the following:

1. Keep the heritage names...Cougar, Bengal and Firecat
2. Return to anodized target finishes...flat black, red, emerald green and gold (Martin's corporate colors)
3. New X cams with smooth draw but hard wall made for the Shadowcat for a return to Martin indoor dominance of the '80s and '90s
4. New Warthog spec bow around 35-36" with true IBO of 350 for the speed nuts
5. New single cam with no hump but more aggressive design to get speeds in the 335s
6. Barnesdale LImbs
7. better QC to have all bows tuned and in spec when they leave with speed and spec tag on it
8. all bows measured with IBO specs when they leave based on a loop and not just naked string
9. all film dip finishes should be have a hard clear duracoat finish applied
10. stainless steel or chrome plated hardware for all tournament finishes like the old chrome of the '80s
11. get away from the film dip carbon finish limbs. Replace them with high gloss metal flake silver or black with a durable clear coat finish and bright, full color logos under the duracoat.

That is it. Not too much on my list. :-)


Seems like some really great ideas to me. I especially like:
#1
#2. The best looking bows Martin ever made, IMO, were in that beautiful green and gold, with the wood accents!
#7. This is an issue w/ Martin that I keep seeing over, and over. Most of the complaints go on to say that Martin makes bows that shoot well...after some at-home tweaking. The problem is, other than a possible draw length adjustment, a customer shouldn't have go through the bow adjusting strings and cables, cam synch, etc., not after paying that much for your new bow. It certainly would be enough to give a first time customer a bad experience.
#10. Satin stainless, or optional high polish, would for all intents and purposes eliminate the hard-part corrosion problems, as well as look great!


Sledge

NeilMac
10-10-2011, 10:17 PM
Just after Savage bought out Bowtech, the quality of the finish went through the floor, with orange peel paint on the limbs, and other finished just peeling off.

I looked at a couple of new Bowtech's at a shoot on Sunday, and they have really turned this around. The limb finish is still a little delicate, and easy to chip with a bow stand, but the overall level of fit and finish is superb.

That is where Martin need to be, with robust finishes on the hunting bows, and something a little bit special on the target / 3D bows, even if it costs a little more (as it usually does).

I know price point is important, and currently the Shadowcat is about the best priced long ATA bow available in the UK, but another 50 would do no harm, IF the finish was just a little more classy.

whman
10-11-2011, 04:55 AM
A confirmed corporate committment to improved Quality Control.....a statement that the market can get it's teeth into. Also, resurection of the Warthog super speed bow and a return to the laminated limbs that Terry Martin himself said were demonstrably superior to a solid limb......or some really technical supporting statements as to why the new solid core limbs are better.
Martin has a name that is worth protecting with products that are of the highest quality.....I know that the market place would support just such products.

vkrules
10-11-2011, 08:25 PM
how about a better finish on the top line bows . A return to single piece rizer better QC. The shadowcat is a world beater if it was just put together a bit better .