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HawgEnvy
10-11-2011, 07:21 PM
i just want you all to know that i consider you friends. we all have our likes,dislikes,thoughts and opinions. and that's cool. that's what makes us individuals and the world would be a terribly boring place if we weren't individuals with our own thoughts and opinions.

it seems to me that this forum has gone from "Awesome" to "WTF is goin' on?". its gone from having a good time in archery and bowhunting and trying to get others into the sport and helping other people learn to a bitch session about the issues with Martin products,which turns to complete school-girl drama. it's just stupid the way OUR forum is going down hill as a result of people having a chip on their shoulder and running off at the mouth. do the Martin owners have the right to be upset with a product they believe(d) in when it's one problem after another? I think they do. but its how they handle their issues and the way they treat people in the process that honestly... it just pisses me off. WE,the members of the forum,didn't design,create,or manufacture any of these products. Yet attitude is tossed at each other as if we're to blame. it's stupid.

as far as I'm concerned,if you don't enjoy your Martin because of "issues" or whatever,find something you do enjoy and shoot it. WHO REALLY CARES!!? the brand you choose isn't important at all. what IS important(as far as I'm concerned) is that people are enjoying themselves in all forms of archery and hunting in general and when they decide to harvest game,they do it legally,morally,and ethically. whatever your weapon of choice(unless you shoot a Matthews and Rage's. then we dont like you. LOL j/k?)

i'll admit,it's been a huge turn off coming to the forum the last couple months and seeing the attitudes and bickering. it was something i looked forward to doing. checking in and trying to help when needed. but for a while it seemed like it was AT revisited. and even AT lately has been more civilized. i thought this forum was a better place to be because the AT-titude wasn't involved. but it sneaked in somewhere along the way.

i just want to say thanks to the Mods for trying to keep the forum clean and running strong. i hope you agree with me,but if you don't,I DON'T CARE because it doesnt matter. You're all allowed to have your own opinions regardless of how wrong you are.

i wish you all a fun,memorable,successful season.

NeilMac
10-11-2011, 10:52 PM
I share your sentiments regarding this forum.

I missed the ruckus and the banning, I think I was concentrating on my competitions and when I came back it was all over.

I have watched, and participated in a couple of threads that seemed to highlight some technical issues with bows. In one case it struck me that an unfortunate purchase had been made that was nothing to do with Martin, other than it's products were involved. In the other thread, I thought I was observing some rather obsessive behaviour and expectations. After all, if a bow is hitting the mark reliably, then the fact it is slightly off from factory spec is neither here nor there. I started shooting compounds at a time when all manner of 'tweaks' were applied to get bows into a state of 'super tune'. You only have to read the first edition of Larry Wise's compound tuning book to see what we used to get up to. Factory spec was, and is, just the starting point and maybe the reference you can return to if things really get out of whack.

I think a little time is needed for the dust to settle, and as an outside observer, also the buck fever needs to subside a little, before things can get back (at least in part) to where they were before, and I look forward to future exchanges of technical information, help, jokes and the rest.

Arrow Splitter
10-12-2011, 02:36 AM
i just want you all to know that i consider you friends. we all have our likes,dislikes,thoughts and opinions. and that's cool. that's what makes us individuals and the world would be a terribly boring place if we weren't individuals with our own thoughts and opinions.

it seems to me that this forum has gone from "Awesome" to "WTF is goin' on?". its gone from having a good time in archery and bowhunting and trying to get others into the sport and helping other people learn to a bitch session about the issues with Martin products,which turns to complete school-girl drama. it's just stupid the way OUR forum is going down hill as a result of people having a chip on their shoulder and running off at the mouth. do the Martin owners have the right to be upset with a product they believe(d) in when it's one problem after another? I think they do. but its how they handle their issues and the way they treat people in the process that honestly... it just pisses me off. WE,the members of the forum,didn't design,create,or manufacture any of these products. Yet attitude is tossed at each other as if we're to blame. it's stupid.

as far as I'm concerned,if you don't enjoy your Martin because of "issues" or whatever,find something you do enjoy and shoot it. WHO REALLY CARES!!? the brand you choose isn't important at all. what IS important(as far as I'm concerned) is that people are enjoying themselves in all forms of archery and hunting in general and when they decide to harvest game,they do it legally,morally,and ethically. whatever your weapon of choice(unless you shoot a Matthews and Rage's. then we dont like you. LOL j/k?)

i'll admit,it's been a huge turn off coming to the forum the last couple months and seeing the attitudes and bickering. it was something i looked forward to doing. checking in and trying to help when needed. but for a while it seemed like it was AT revisited. and even AT lately has been more civilized. i thought this forum was a better place to be because the AT-titude wasn't involved. but it sneaked in somewhere along the way.

i just want to say thanks to the Mods for trying to keep the forum clean and running strong. i hope you agree with me,but if you don't,I DON'T CARE because it doesnt matter. You're all allowed to have your own opinions regardless of how wrong you are.

i wish you all a fun,memorable,successful season.x2 I certainly do. It would be great if this forum could go back to what it used to be which was a very helpful place without all the attitudes.

A.S

Sharxfan
10-12-2011, 06:23 AM
I agree with NM. When I bought my bow I got it from HuntersFriend and they set it up for me with the accessories I purchased. Since I have gotten it I have shot quiet a few arrows through it and I love my bow no ifs ands or buts. Not once have I checked ATA or twists or things that I see others on here do to tune their bows. All I know is that my bow is capable of putting arrows consistently in the heart area of my target unless I screw up on form which happens a lot and is not the bows fault. Sometimes I think we get to caught up in super tuning and refining and don't realize that sometimes good enough is just good enough.

Hell I could hit bullseyes with my 1990 Martin Lynx Magnum at 70 yards and I dn't think that bow shot half as fast as my Onza 3.

Also as a new tag line Speed doesn't kill Accuracy does!!

ElkSlayer
10-12-2011, 07:37 AM
x2 I certainly do. It would be great if this forum could go back to what it used to be which was a very helpful place without all the attitudes.

A.S

Gee off line for 6mo and now I read every one has tudes.....what did I miss

MLN1963
10-12-2011, 08:09 AM
Gee off line for 6mo and now I read every one has tudes.....what did I miss

You missed one very Pro-Martin advocate getting disgusted with recent products and company feedback who expressed his feelings with his fellow Martin users and was given the boot. He has moved on and thus left a gaping hole in this forums knowledge base. His removal lead to another person to expressing his opinions of said banning and he was given the boot further killing the knowledge base. Other than that you didn't miss anything. :cool:

gravedigger
10-12-2011, 08:12 AM
You missed one very Pro-Martin advocate getting disgusted with recent products and company feedback who expressed his feelings with his fellow Martin users and was given the boot. He has moved on and thus left a gaping hole in this forums knowledge base. His removal lead to another person to expressing his opinions of said banning and he was given the boot further killing the knowledge base.

very well put MLN.i wish things would go bact to how they were.

HawgEnvy
10-12-2011, 08:42 AM
You missed one very Pro-Martin advocate getting disgusted with recent products and company feedback who expressed his feelings with his fellow Martin users and was given the boot. He has moved on and thus left a gaping hole in this forums knowledge base. His removal lead to another person to expressing his opinions of said banning and he was given the boot further killing the knowledge base. Other than that you didn't miss anything. :cool:

by far THE best explaination that could possibly be given. yup,it sucks. but ROCK ON MTF! a little less input,and ALOT less attitude and drama.

ElkSlayer
10-12-2011, 08:58 AM
You missed one very Pro-Martin advocate getting disgusted with recent products and company feedback who expressed his feelings with his fellow Martin users and was given the boot. He has moved on and thus left a gaping hole in this forums knowledge base. His removal lead to another person to expressing his opinions of said banning and he was given the boot further killing the knowledge base. Other than that you didn't miss anything. :cool:

Thanks for the update. :( .. I have seen other changes, though I was never outa of the loop...It is sad one can not speak/ type their thoughts on a subject... after all we do have free speach

Well as in life we move on ... so whats new and exicting my friends any new toys :cool:

peace
10-12-2011, 09:02 AM
I too noticed a few months ago a serious swing towards Martin bashing and it seemed as though it was a concerted effort to destroy the very spirit of this forum. At times I thought I was on AT listening to other brands fan boys. My experience with Martin bows is more with older models and I have found them very trustworthy and reliable, my most recent purchase this year was a new 2003 Martin Cougar III Magnum, from some old new stock. I have absolutely zero problems with the bow. I don't hear many problems with owners of the older bows either so it seems something may have happened to the recent years line ups. I don't have first hand experience, but with such vitriol being banded about it gives me cause to wander.

Could be expectations but I don't expect an extreme finish on a low to medium priced bow or firearm. Finish on a hunting implement is usually reserved for higher end products. Most Martins are reasonably priced. I have witnessed constant griping about finish on low priced product, but yes on a ShadowCat or the Rytera bows I would expect an excellent finish. As to tuning, a lot of the setup is done by shops and techs that don't think much of Martin or its customers, thus I don't think an honest effort goes into the prep of a Martin locally. There has been the suggestion for Martin to pay more attention to bow prep before they leave the factory. Maybe so. Maybe more attention to quality control. I don't know. My purchases are usually from online thus I have an expectation of having to customize my purchase extensively. It seems many are looking for a ready to hunt experience out of the box. For some this may be a righteous expectation. Again, I don't know.


I just more expect this forum to be a place for tuning tips, examples of improvements, a place to help each other, and good old fashioned off- topic camaraderie. But what do I know, today it seems we have a general PC culture where whining is an acceptable expression of manhood.




4711

Smarten Up and Martin Up

Hutch~n~Son Archery
10-12-2011, 10:51 AM
Gee off line for 6mo and now I read every one has tudes.....what did I miss6 MONTHS!;)


Hutch:cool:

ElkSlayer
10-12-2011, 01:08 PM
6 MONTHS!;)


Hutch:cool:

Not realy i still remember the last 4....lol :p

Skbengal
10-12-2011, 01:42 PM
When I joined this site 3 yrs ago it was a great source of helpful information and encouragement!Everybody was friendly,civl and helpful(unlike some of the other sites).We all are/were Martin owners who gather here to help and encourage one another in a sport we love.Hopefully we can regain that focus.

Magnus777
10-12-2011, 09:10 PM
...my most recent purchase this year was a new 2003 Martin Cougar III Magnum, from some old new stock.

...I don't expect an extreme finish on a low to medium priced bow or firearm. Finish on a hunting implement is usually reserved for higher end products. Most Martins are reasonably priced. I have witnessed constant griping about finish on low priced product, but yes on a ShadowCat or the Rytera bows I would expect an excellent finish.


4711

Smarten Up and Martin Up

Ok, first of all...WHO has new Cougar III's still in inventory??? I WANT ONE, TOO!!!

I don't know that we should expect a dazzling finish on our reasonably priced hunting bows...but I DO think we should expect a durable finish. There's got to be some method, some material that could be used that is both much more durable than the current offerings, and won't add an extreme price increase to the end product. I don't know what kind of finish they used on my '93 Cougar, something with a rough texture, but it still looks like new on the riser, and has only been rubbed/scratched/chipped away on the very tips of the limbs. Why aren't they still using THAT finish? I know, because they found a cheaper way. But have you ever noticed how companies find cheaper and cheaper ways to manufacture their goods...but the price to the consumer never goes down? It's all about padding the bottom line for the shareholders, while the overall quality of their product steadily decreases.
Seems to me a company should strive to make their products better, and better, which keeps customers coming back again and again, rather than making it with cheaper, and cheaper materials and methods, which generally causes the customer to seek alternatives once the quality reaches a certain low point. Profits can still be made, by increasing efficiency, selling at a higher volume, providing better value, and many other ways. As I've said before, it is no more expensive to make a product right, than it is to make wrong, and have to continually service it with warranty claims, calls to customer service, complaints, and a hit to the companies reputation.
But please don't misunderstand, it is not my intention to give negative criticism, and I am NOT saying Martin produces poor quality, shabby products. But maybe I am suggesting if there are certain areas that receive continuous customer attention...the current finishes, for example...that shouldn't necessarily be seen as all negative, but rather an OPPORTUNITY for the company to take notice, and address those concerns in whatever way it sees fit. I think any company with long-term vision would not shy away it's customer's issues, but rather seek out any and all feedback from those people that purchase it's products, because that's the only way they'll know if all the effort and expense they put in is paying off.


When I joined this site 3 yrs ago it was a great source of helpful information and encouragement!Everybody was friendly,civl and helpful(unlike some of the other sites).We all are/were Martin owners who gather here to help and encourage one another in a sport we love.Hopefully we can regain that focus.

I'm still very new here, and looks like I missed a whole lot of drama...which I'm thankful for. However, I too feel fortunate that my experience here so far has been nothing but positive. All the members with whom I have shared conversation have been most curteous, enthusiastic, and helpful.
I think if this forum is perhaps changing in ways we believe might be for the worse, if we find ourselves being subjected to negative influences, or headed in a direction we would rather not, then we should seek productive ways to make things better, turn those negatives into positives, and get us turned around and back onto the good road! Let us be thankful for the things we DO have, and count our blessings, and for those things we have lost, or those that we lack, let us not mourn, but rejoice...as it gives us an opportunity to improve the situation, and make this place the way we want it to be!

NeilMac
10-13-2011, 05:45 AM
Magnus, there is a slight flaw in your reasoning. Yes, manufacturers look to keep controlled costs down and so seek cheaper ways of making product, but, material prices don't go down, wages don't go down, energy prices don't go down, packaging materials, carriage, postage, phone bills, none of these go down. So in essence, the manufactures do pass on the savings they are making, in the form of smaller price increases.

peace
10-13-2011, 09:43 AM
Magnus777,
"I just happened to stumble across it" on Ebay, it came from Lexington, KY. It was new never set up. Not a scratch, ding or anything. Just took it apart and re-lubed and cleaned it, and put new strings on her. I have been a great believer that there are bows specifically made for me, regardless of when or where and that they come to me in good time. It's a faith thing that I won't go to far into here.