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kylecurtis04
10-19-2011, 05:50 AM
http://www.martinarchery.com/ads/idufghcat2012/MartinArchery2012Catalog100dpi.pdf

here is the link to the 2012 catalog.

NeilMac
10-19-2011, 06:07 AM
I've just been looking at it here: http://issuu.com/martinarchery/docs/martin_archery_2012_catalog_1a_150dpi?mode=window&backgroundColor=%23222222

Scepter 5 eh? Mmmmmmmmmmmmm

kylecurtis04
10-19-2011, 06:14 AM
The new Bengal looks like a beaut!

Spiker
10-19-2011, 06:17 AM
Thanks for the link.!

MLN1963
10-19-2011, 07:02 AM
I like that they made some of the improvements we have been talking about! A nice speed bump to 330 for most bows with the new Fury XT Single cam. I don't care what anyone says, just like sex, speed sells. Hopefully they will actually reach these speeds this year and not just be a number like last year. I like the looks of the lower cam but the upper cam is fugly IMO. There sure are some large adjustment ranges to the cams this year too!

It looks like all but two bows have the Pro moniker now. That kind of devalues the name in my book. It seems kinda confusing that some of the old "Gold" series names like Bengal are now in the "Pro" series/line of bows. Even more confusing is the use of the Pro moniker in both the "Pro" and "Gold" lines?

I'm not to keen on the bulky look of the Bengal, Crossfire and Prowler. I think they lost the clean lines that previous year bows had.

I see the Pantera Magnum now has the new style grip this year. The Magnum moniker eludes me, what makes it a Magnum and not a Pro? Maybe because it is the longest A2A hunting bow at 34"???

Also there are two versions of the Exile now, Exile Pro M-24 and a Exile M-18 yet I have found no difference in the specs?

Is the Scepter V Pro just a renamed Shadowcat?

One bow that seems to serve no purpose and is out of place is the Crossfire. Why does it serve no purpose? It has Nitro Hybrid Pro cams (there is that Pro moniker again), a 1/2" shorter A2A, a 1/2" brace height an and has slower FPS (320) than the Exile (320-330 FPS). What am I missing?

Are these risers still three piece screwed and glued? I know it says machined from one slid piece of aluminum but so does the 2011 catalog and we know they are screwed and glued three piece risers.

The worst part is now the Bengal is back and it not a re-badged Ridge Hunter and I will have to hear it from Gravedigger, Hutch and Arrow Splitter!!!!

NeilMac
10-19-2011, 07:16 AM
Is the Scepter V Pro just a renamed Shadowcat?


Nope, that's a completely new riser.

Arrow Splitter
10-19-2011, 07:55 AM
The worst part is now the Bengal is back and it not a re-badged Ridge Hunter and I will have to hear it from Gravedigger, Hutch and Arrow Splitter!!!!I'm not going to say it.....nope... not going say it....never mind. I told you so!!!!!!http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg230/pegould/LaughingSmiley.gif

gravedigger
10-19-2011, 08:05 AM
I'm not going to say it.....nope... not going say it....never mind. I told you so!!!!!!http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg230/pegould/LaughingSmiley.gif
ya buddy you got to it befor i did


I'm not to keen on the bulky look of the Bengal, Crossfire and Prowler. I think they lost the clean lines that previous year bows had.


The worst part is now the Bengal is back and it not a re-badged Ridge Hunter and I will have to hear it from Gravedigger, Hutch and Arrow Splitter!!!!

i really dont care for the look of the bengal in the 2012 line up.looks bulky and not at all sleek.

gravedigger
10-19-2011, 08:16 AM
but befor i speak too soon i want to see and shoot the new bengal,and 1 or 2 others i see.i am diggin on some of the other bow that they have.....hmmmmm im on the ropes about it.darn what to shoot first...i do like the new cam and lbs+DL adjustments

bcriner
10-19-2011, 08:27 AM
Nice to see the Scepter V going back to a solid one piece riser. A little disappointed in no shoot thru option for it and no return to anodized risers for it. The target color options are weak. They use the film dip instead of the anodizing for costs and to cover up the joint on the 3 piece risers. I wish they would have offered the SV in anodized colors. Also I am disappointed that they do not offer a youth bow anymore. The Exile is not a youth bow. It was several years back when they offered the leopard with the mini m-Pro cam. With the mini M-pro 2 cam and the new cam the draw will only go down to 24". The older mini m-pro cam went to 21 1/2". They still need something in a small riser like the Exile but with a special youth cam to go from like 18-26". Also they didn't go back to the drawing boards on the TRG. They just opted to go back to a slide. I will give the line up a sold "B", maybe a "B+". JMO

Don B
10-19-2011, 09:03 AM
WHAT NO SHADOWCAT???????
I guess us finger shooters are going to have to shoot shorter and shorter bows.
Come on Martin, don't do this to us.
Don.

bcriner
10-19-2011, 09:34 AM
WHAT NO SHADOWCAT???????
I guess us finger shooters are going to have to shoot shorter and shorter bows.
Come on Martin, don't do this to us.
Don.

Scepter V is a redesigned Shadowcat from a one piece riser. It is 40". What more do you need?

Don B
10-19-2011, 09:47 AM
Scepter V is a redesigned Shadowcat from a one piece riser. It is 40". What more do you need?
The trend of all the bow makers is going shorter ATA lengths. A "good" finger bow is at least 44" ATA.
I just hate to see Martin going shorter.
Don.

gravedigger
10-19-2011, 10:08 AM
i am really likeing the pantera.looks good,the riser is nice and smooth.im still not to sure about the new bengal...i keep looking at it and i just dont know.the scepter is nice but the riser seams like it is to straight up and down.for sure liking the one peace riser,and the dual vem is a nice add on for the bengal.

Magnus777
10-19-2011, 10:53 AM
What's this I see? Could it be??? The reintroduction of the Cougar? Interesting...somewhat. It's just what I've been hoping for, asking for, dreaming about! But this one is ugly as sin...just my own opinion. Well, not really ugly...no moreso than any of the other cookie-cutter bows...just not very attractive. That riser looks oddly familiar...although I can't put a name to it at the moment. Anybody else notice that?
It's also rather short ATA. Weren't Cougars of the past moderately long ATA bows that generally fit comfortably on either the target range, or in the woods? I do remember at one time the Cougs were available in all the purty, flashy colors. At any rate, I'm glad to see they've reintroduced the brand name, although it seems they threw it in just for kicks, letting it settle somewhere in the middle of the pack. For someone I'm sure it will be just what they're looking for, and will fit that need beautifully. Me, I'll pass.

Sledge

bcriner
10-19-2011, 11:20 AM
Note the Cougar FC is nothing more than last year's Firecat renamed...pull up the catalog page of the two cougar bows and the website page of the two Firecat bows. Identical. Same specs. I guess Cougar FC stands for Cougar Firecat.

Montalaar
10-19-2011, 12:18 PM
Well... Time for me to whine, eh?

Still no other bow than the Shadow...er...Scepter V in a good draw length and acceptable AtA. Still the other bows are going shorter and shorter. I feel like this was my last year with a Martin. No bash intended but they unfortunatelz will lose me as a customer due to the fact that i alreadz own 2 ShadowCats and the new featuers of the Scepter are neat.. but not thaaaaaaat awesome. And it has still the more or less same design... I am looking forward to get me a Vantage Elite now. Hmm.. If i can get enough cash together.. Shouldn't have selled mz Razor-X. That bow was great..

The overall design of 2012 is a bit clumsy in my eyes. Nothing that reallz appeals to my eyes. But then i am used to longer riser bows with longer ata...

MLN1963
10-19-2011, 01:28 PM
I'm not going to say it.....nope... not going say it....never mind. I told you so!!!!!!http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg230/pegould/LaughingSmiley.gif

It doesn't bother me that Bengal is ugly! All that metal around the V.E.M.s looks like the plastic flashing that I used to cut off of plastic models when I was a kid. The older models looked better IMO. But I do like the performance specs of it.

kylecurtis04
10-19-2011, 01:36 PM
I dont mind the line up at all. Martin to me is a blue collar company and produce bows for the working man class and I am a working man. The bows may not be the flashiest, but I think that they look nice. Appearance does have an affect of overall sales, but personally I prefer performance over looks. Martin continually makes a great bow for a great price and they shoot wonderfully. Just my opinion tho.

kylecurtis04
10-19-2011, 01:53 PM
Note the Cougar FC is nothing more than last year's Firecat renamed...pull up the catalog page of the two cougar bows and the website page of the two Firecat bows. Identical. Same specs. I guess Cougar FC stands for Cougar Firecat.

To be the devils advocate, this statement is incorrect. The riser design is the same, but the cougar has a shorter ATA and is lighter, also the draw goes all the way down to 25.5" this year as opposed to last years firecat only going down to 27" draw. Also it maxes out at 30.5" and the firecat last year was 30". THe single cam Fury XT cams can adjust all the way to 31" draw from 25.5" being the lowest. It is nice that they give you that option as a buyer to get it in the dual cam or the single cam. Not a lot of companies offer that luxury. Also, in response to the shorter ATA bows. I personally feel that it is a revelation and the market continually wants those shorter ATA bows for hunting in stands and blinds. I am strictly a bow hunter and dont do any target hunting. So I really dont know all that much about ATA for target, but I hear your pains and do wish they would make a longer ATA target bow for you folks. Who knows, maybe the Septer V will just blow everyone away when they go and shoot it or maybe not. All I know is that we can't judge a book by its cover. We must personally go out and test these bows and shoot them so us as archers can give them a respectable review that is based on performance and not appearance and numbers.

gravedigger
10-19-2011, 02:06 PM
It doesn't bother me that Bengal is ugly!.

remember that reflection in the screen stareing back at you is not the bengal......J/K.sorry i had too.

Hutch~n~Son Archery
10-19-2011, 02:14 PM
Wow all I read is whine! whine! whine! The bows aren't even out and some of you are whining!!!! My question, have any of you whiners shot one? Seen it in person? Huh Huh! Give me a break! This isn't the third grade. I am going to keep an open mind on the new Martin bows and accessories. :p





Hutch:cool:

gravedigger
10-19-2011, 03:01 PM
Wow all I read is whine! whine! whine! The bows aren't even out and some of you are whining!!!! My question, have any of you whiners shot one? Seen it in person? Huh Huh! Give me a break! This isn't the third grade. I am going to keep an open mind on the new Martin bows and accessories. :p





Hutch:cool:

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-char090.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-char154.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

im all better now...i got my bink and baloon

bfisher
10-19-2011, 03:13 PM
Just as 2011 I'll probably wait till I see what Rytera is going to offer, but finally, finally I see the possibility of a Scepter in my future.

HawgEnvy
10-19-2011, 03:35 PM
well,the risers all look similar to the Nemesis' and Alien X's,IMO. i'm very much interest to shoot the new single cam. my "to-shoot" list is the Prowler,the Crossfire and the Bengal. i wish they had an actual BLACK instead of that gawd awful carbon fiber stuff. that stuff was better left to tuner cars. what camo is that? it looks different than the previous camo. i think i like it

MLN1963
10-19-2011, 03:38 PM
To be the devils advocate, this statement is incorrect. The riser design is the same, but the cougar has a shorter ATA and is lighter, also the draw goes all the way down to 25.5" this year as opposed to last years firecat only going down to 27" draw. Also it maxes out at 30.5" and the firecat last year was 30". THe single cam Fury XT cams can adjust all the way to 31" draw from 25.5" being the lowest. It is nice that they give you that option as a buyer to get it in the dual cam or the single cam. Not a lot of companies offer that luxury.

No, his statement is mostly true. It is a re-badged FC 400 with the new Hybrid Pro cams that allow for greater D/L adjustments with the same speed. My FC 400 is the same 32.25" A2A. The Fury XT cam option just makes it a re-badged FC360 with the new uber adjustable and faster cams. These are both welcomed refinements, not evolutionary. So they really aren't giving anymore options in this case, they cut one bow and doubled up on another.

That said I would like a set of these uber adjustable cams for my bow so I could get to the 27" DL my bow is supposed to have.

coastie hunter
10-19-2011, 03:48 PM
They look great to me good spec,good speed,alot of adjustment,me and my boy could shoot the same bow I like I will be buying a couple one for me and the boy.

MLN1963
10-19-2011, 03:49 PM
I like that they made some of the improvements we have been talking about! A nice speed bump to 330 for most bows with the new Fury XT Single cam. I don't care what anyone says, just like sex, speed sells. Hopefully they will actually reach these speeds this year and not just be a number like last year. I like the looks of the lower cam but the upper cam is fugly IMO. There sure are some large adjustment ranges to the cams this year too!

It looks like all but two bows have the Pro moniker now. That kind of devalues the name in my book. It seems kinda confusing that some of the old "Gold" series names like Bengal are now in the "Pro" series/line of bows. Even more confusing is the use of the Pro moniker in both the "Pro" and "Gold" lines?

I'm not to keen on the bulky look of the Bengal, Crossfire and Prowler. I think they lost the clean lines that previous year bows had.

I see the Pantera Magnum now has the new style grip this year. The Magnum moniker eludes me, what makes it a Magnum and not a Pro? Maybe because it is the longest A2A hunting bow at 34"???

Also there are two versions of the Exile now, Exile Pro M-24 and a Exile M-18 yet I have found no difference in the specs?

Is the Scepter V Pro just a renamed Shadowcat?

One bow that seems to serve no purpose and is out of place is the Crossfire. Why does it serve no purpose? It has Nitro Hybrid Pro cams (there is that Pro moniker again), a 1/2" shorter A2A, a 1/2" brace height an and has slower FPS (320) than the Exile (320-330 FPS). What am I missing?

Are these risers still three piece screwed and glued? I know it says machined from one slid piece of aluminum but so does the 2011 catalog and we know they are screwed and glued three piece risers.

The worst part is now the Bengal is back and it not a re-badged Ridge Hunter and I will have to hear it from Gravedigger, Hutch and Arrow Splitter!!!!


Wow all I read is whine! whine! whine! The bows aren't even out and some of you are whining!!!! My question, have any of you whiners shot one? Seen it in person? Huh Huh! Give me a break! This isn't the third grade. I am going to keep an open mind on the new Martin bows and accessories. :p

Hutch:cool:

I don't see whining, I see questions and confusion. I even see some positive remarks. I have been very good about not being too hard on Martin. I'm not a Martin fanboy, or any other brand for that matter. There is no need to sugar coat everything.

Now, the looks of some of the bows I don't like, I think it is ugly. That is my opinion, if you think it is beautiful that is your opinion. I don't need to shoot it or see it in person for that. BTW I have see pictures of you and know you are ugly and don't need to see you in person to verify it! :cool:

MLN1963
10-19-2011, 03:57 PM
i am really likeing the pantera.looks good,the riser is nice and smooth.

Me too. For my 6'2" son it would be nice I bet.

Arrow Splitter
10-19-2011, 04:13 PM
I don't see whining, I see questions and confusion. http://serve.mysmiley.net/confused/confused0018.gifhttp://serve.mysmiley.net/confused/confused0003.gif
I even see some positive remarks.http://serve.mysmiley.net/confused/confused0054.gif
I impressed. LOL:D

Hutch~n~Son Archery
10-19-2011, 04:21 PM
I don't see whining, I see questions and confusion. I even see some positive remarks. I have been very good about not being too hard on Martin. I'm not a Martin fanboy, or any other brand for that matter. There is no need to sugar coat everything.

Now, the looks of some of the bows I don't like, I think it is ugly. That is my opinion, if you think it is beautiful that is your opinion. I don't need to shoot it or see it in person for that. BTW I have see pictures of you and know you are ugly and don't need to see you in person to verify it! :cool:
There is nothing wrong with the way I look.http://www.1avatars.com/avatars/SpongeBob/SpongeBob%20%281%29.jpg
Besides if you weren't guilty why were you the first to answer? HA HA!! LOL!


Hutch:cool:

HawgEnvy
10-19-2011, 04:37 PM
HUTCH! Spongebob? Really? where'd you get that?

dragonsfire311
10-19-2011, 04:37 PM
I see we seem to have gone back to standard cable slides.:)

dzsmith
10-19-2011, 04:43 PM
looks like they are still using the crappy pleather supposedly thermal grips, which they definetly are not after my freezing experience this previous weekend. mine came unglued
so many times i bought a limbsaver tentacle grip. these bows do look sick. I hate that i got my exile in august because i really like the looks of these new ones. i love that they got
rid of the trg and sos. even though i have not had problems with mine. the new system they have look more practical. the carbon fiber black look is awesome is well. in the past
year or so i have noticed a lot of people going to solid black bows and i must say i think i will do the same with my next one. unfortunatley i am bound and determined to hunt
with my current bow at least three years, so by that time martin will be way ahead than what they already are

SJunior
10-19-2011, 04:47 PM
I like the looks of the Bengal, sets it apart from other designs.

Possibility of a new Prowler coming to this household for the wife.

You guys think I can sneak another new one in the house for myself??? ;)

Her first kill with the new Prowler would prolly be me!!!

Jake-the-snake
10-19-2011, 05:01 PM
Im impressed to say the least, went back to simpleness with the rod/slide...I like that. I hope the QC is also a few more steps up...No new bows for me, although that Pantera, and Scepter really catch my eye...If that scepter happened to be a shoot-through, I would be dumping the money on a new one...maybe next year!

gravedigger
10-19-2011, 06:20 PM
HUTCH! Spongebob? Really? where'd you get that?

so ya like sponge bob huh....
me befor my morning coffee
http://images.imagelinky.com/1319080093.jpg (http://images.imagelinky.com/1319080093.jpg)

Speedykills
10-19-2011, 07:12 PM
Umm i dont know,doesnt look like my cup of tea....................oh well.

Money Man
10-19-2011, 07:43 PM
I was just saying to my buddy on the way to work today that 2012 might be the year for a new bow for me. I come home to this... a Cougar for 2012, seriously? I know it looks like the FC 400 and 360, but I am super excited about it. Now to see the price tag to see if I can stay excited.

NeilMac
10-19-2011, 10:45 PM
I have been shooting Martin bows on and off since the late 1980's, but not being a historian of names and the bows they were applied to, I am just pleased to see many of them back. Martin has always held over a few models, updated them, installed new cams, etc. Every manufacturer does, otherwise they would have to come up with a complete new range every year, and the cost of that would be too much.

Personally, I am delighted to see a 40" ATA bow in the range, I know there is only one, but that one more than Bowtech offer, and with Hoyt's range of finger bows reducing in 2012, I am just happy to see that Martin are 'keeping the faith' in finger shooters.

I am unlikely to buy a new bow in 2012, I just have my Shadowcats shooting the way I like them, plus of course the 'other' bow just arrived. But I think the range is good and it will appeal to a wide range of archers, including the tens of thousands who never visit this forum and who shoot for sport / fun / results and really don't care what a bow is called and when that name was last used and on what type of bow.

TIGON
10-20-2011, 04:36 AM
I feel that when a company comes out with a new innovation, they should stick to it for more than 1 year. With Martin going back to a cable and slide tells me that they did not test the 2011 SOS & TRG properly and in-depth. This now tells me what kind of company Martin is. I was sold on the new idea (2011 SOS & TRG) by Dick's Sporting Goods (not that they are the best when it comes to bow knowledge) but before I bought it I called Martin Archery's customer service and they sold me on how all bows will be going to this new system and that this was the new latest and greatest. This is complete BS in my book. My 2011 Martin Rack Attack (Exile) works great now, who knows in the future but if they do not have confidence in their own new product then I feel the same about their company. If they do not believe in their own product then they should recall all the 2011 Martin bows. Martin, not that you even care, but you lost a very loyal customer.

bcriner
10-20-2011, 05:29 AM
To be the devils advocate, this statement is incorrect. The riser design is the same, but the cougar has a shorter ATA and is lighter, also the draw goes all the way down to 25.5" this year as opposed to last years firecat only going down to 27" draw. Also it maxes out at 30.5" and the firecat last year was 30". THe single cam Fury XT cams can adjust all the way to 31" draw from 25.5" being the lowest. It is nice that they give you that option as a buyer to get it in the dual cam or the single cam. Not a lot of companies offer that luxury. Also, in response to the shorter ATA bows. I personally feel that it is a revelation and the market continually wants those shorter ATA bows for hunting in stands and blinds. I am strictly a bow hunter and dont do any target hunting. So I really dont know all that much about ATA for target, but I hear your pains and do wish they would make a longer ATA target bow for you folks. Who knows, maybe the Septer V will just blow everyone away when they go and shoot it or maybe not. All I know is that we can't judge a book by its cover. We must personally go out and test these bows and shoot them so us as archers can give them a respectable review that is based on performance and not appearance and numbers.

Sorry...I mean to say the Cougar FC was the same Firecat riser. Yes the specs are different due to the new cam. BH is the same 7". ATA between the two are on 1/4". 32 1/2" vs 32 1/4". That is what I meant by the same bow. They didn't create a whole new Cougar riser.

Spiker
10-20-2011, 06:10 AM
The Scepter V should win a lot of trophys this coming year. A red one with white limbs and red and white threads would be bad azz on the line.! :cool:
I'm not a single cam fan but for a throw it in the back of the truck and go hunt bow - the Pantera looks great. I will be trying one of them first chance I get.
All around hunting/backyard/3-D/indoor/I only own one bow - the Onza III would fill the bill.
The rest of the short chunky bows just aint my style and some may say that Martin has regressed by going back to the rod and slide but I see nothing wrong
with using something that is tried and true.
From just this quick preview it looks like they have worked hard to improve their products and I am looking forward to seeing all they offer up close and personal.!

MLN1963
10-20-2011, 06:22 AM
The wide range of DL adjustments of the new Nitro Hybrid Pro cams is great. That should help sell some bows. Look at Ford, he sold his Exile and bought a BT Heart Breaker so he could get a shorter DL.

The true test is when they hit the streets. Will the quality of the bow's be improved, will the Quality Control of the products improved, will the bows meet their specs?

SJunior
10-20-2011, 06:31 AM
I feel that when a company comes out with a new innovation, they should stick to it for more than 1 year. With Martin going back to a cable and slide tells me that they did not test the 2011 SOS & TRG properly and in-depth. This now tells me what kind of company Martin is. I was sold on the new idea (2011 SOS & TRG) by Dick's Sporting Goods (not that they are the best when it comes to bow knowledge) but before I bought it I called Martin Archery's customer service and they sold me on how all bows will be going to this new system and that this was the new latest and greatest. This is complete BS in my book. My 2011 Martin Rack Attack (Exile) works great now, who knows in the future but if they do not have confidence in their own new product then I feel the same about their company. If they do not believe in their own product then they should recall all the 2011 Martin bows. Martin, not that you even care, but you lost a very loyal customer.

Do you know how a recall works? Martin is replacing the TRG, why would they recall when they are taking care of the problem anyway. I haven't messed with the TRG but from looking at them I think setting them up with some type of slide so the cables wouldn't wear that it is a sound idea.

gravedigger
10-20-2011, 06:40 AM
I feel that when a company comes out with a new innovation, they should stick to it for more than 1 year. With Martin going back to a cable and slide tells me that they did not test the 2011 SOS & TRG properly and in-depth. This now tells me what kind of company Martin is. I was sold on the new idea (2011 SOS & TRG) by Dick's Sporting Goods (not that they are the best when it comes to bow knowledge) but before I bought it I called Martin Archery's customer service and they sold me on how all bows will be going to this new system and that this was the new latest and greatest. This is complete BS in my book. My 2011 Martin Rack Attack (Exile) works great now, who knows in the future but if they do not have confidence in their own new product then I feel the same about their company. If they do not believe in their own product then they should recall all the 2011 Martin bows. Martin, not that you even care, but you lost a very loyal customer.

so did you take the time to think that maybe martin has gone back to the drawing board for the TRG and SOS.maybe they did not test it enough the first time around,so they are going to spend more time makeing sure it does work as intended..it could take a year maybe 2 or 3 to perfect it.that could be why they just went with the standard set up.R&D doesent happen over night.

but you are your own person and if you want to go else ware then thats your choice.

MLN1963
10-20-2011, 06:55 AM
so did you take the time to think that maybe martin has gone back to the drawing board for the TRG and SOS.maybe they did not test it enough the first time around,so they are going to spend more time makeing sure it does work as intended..it could take a year maybe 2 or 3 to perfect it.that could be why they just went with the standard set up.R&D doesent happen over night.

but you are your own person and if you want to go else ware then thats your choice.

Maybe it was never ready from prime time and shouldn't have been released in the first place? It is not the customer's job to do R&D work on their new purchase. The the good thing is it is gone and the tried and true is back. This is going to help the customer service department out no doubt.

gravedigger
10-20-2011, 07:59 AM
Maybe it was never ready from prime time and shouldn't have been released in the first place? .

i thought that is what i was saying.and for sure it was not tested enough to release on the 2011 bows.but maybe they are back on the drawing board trying to make it work.concept is good but needed major improvements.maybe 2013 or 2014 martin will have some kick @$$ something or another.


when will these bows be ready to test shoot.i want to scoop up as many as i can and have a hay day shooting them.

champno6
10-20-2011, 06:21 PM
In 2011 Martin highly touted the TRG. "Why bother trying to reduce torque at the grip if you don't address torque at the limb tips" (from their 2011 catalog)? So, apparently there's been alot of problems with the TRG and they are replacing with a rod and slide. That's swell, but, now do we need to go back to worrying about "torque at the limb tips" and cam lean which was apparently such a problem in the past it prompted Martin to come out with the TRG in the first place.?

Spiker
10-20-2011, 06:32 PM
In 2011 Martin highly touted the TRG. "Why bother trying to reduce torque at the grip if you don't address torque at the limb tips" (from their 2011 catalog)? So, apparently there's been alot of problems with the TRG and they are replacing with a rod and slide. That's swell, but, now do we need to go back to worrying about "torque at the limb tips" and cam lean which was apparently such a problem in the past it prompted Martin to come out with the TRG in the first place.?

Well - No.

Double S
10-20-2011, 06:38 PM
I see what next years tax return will be buying unless Rytera comes out with a new Bow for Targets. I'm liking the Scepter. My Favorite color is red but It sure would look good in a lime green...or orange.

gravedigger
10-20-2011, 07:26 PM
I see what next years tax return will be buying unless Rytera comes out with a new Bow for Targets. I'm liking the Scepter. My Favorite color is red but It sure would look good in a lime green...or orange.

im with ya on the tax returns...im looking at the bengal or pantera.they bengal just keeps sinking in every time i look at it.i called the closet pro shop and they said ther going to be geting them in sooner then later but would not tell me when.

they did how ever take my email and said they would hit me up when they are in.i did try to con them out of prices but they would not budge

TIGON
10-21-2011, 03:48 AM
Do you know how a recall works? Martin is replacing the TRG, why would they recall when they are taking care of the problem anyway. I haven't messed with the TRG but from looking at them I think setting them up with some type of slide so the cables wouldn't wear that it is a sound idea.

Yes, SJunior I do know how recalls work. Yes they will replace the TRG, great, but now whats up with the SOS. My bow, the Exile, has no place for the SOS and I would have never bought the bow knowing that. Also if a car company is having problems with the brakes on a specific car, they will recall them all. I believe, from what I read on here, that if there is a possiblity of the strings breaking due to the wearing from the TRG, then that creates a dangerous situation of the stings breaking in your face. So what now, I'm stuck keeping it or selling it and not getting all my money back. I'm not rich like you guys and I can't just go out and buy a new bow every year.

TIGON
10-21-2011, 03:58 AM
so did you take the time to think that maybe martin has gone back to the drawing board for the TRG and SOS.maybe they did not test it enough the first time around,so they are going to spend more time makeing sure it does work as intended..it could take a year maybe 2 or 3 to perfect it.that could be why they just went with the standard set up.R&D doesent happen over night.

but you are your own person and if you want to go else ware then thats your choice.

gravediggermtv, I should not have to take MY time to think about what Martin is doing. I have more important things to think about. I like to buy products from companies that fully test their products before releasing them to the public. R&D doesn't happen over night, yes, but they should not have released the new system if it has not been fully tested. So when you crash your car due to faulty breaks and this has happened to mutliple people and maybe caused deaths, then we should just give the car company the benefit of the doubt and let them go back to the drawing board, as you said, and it's not their fault because they didn't fully test it. WTF

alex
10-21-2011, 04:01 AM
I like the trad bows very much. There's something in the risers design of the compounds which isn't okay for my taste. Not that i'd refuse a free Scepter ;)

rjd
10-21-2011, 04:03 AM
So if I place my order for a Left hand Pantera ,when should I have it??? No but serious thoughts about the Pantera.

Will be waiting for the Rytera line also.

NeilMac
10-21-2011, 04:03 AM
Yes, SJunior I do know how recalls work. Yes they will replace the TRG, great, but now whats up with the SOS. My bow, the Exile, has no place for the SOS and I would have never bought the bow knowing that. Also if a car company is having problems with the brakes on a specific car, they will recall them all. I believe, from what I read on here, that if there is a possiblity of the strings breaking due to the wearing from the TRG, then that creates a dangerous situation of the stings breaking in your face. So what now, I'm stuck keeping it or selling it and not getting all my money back. I'm not rich like you guys and I can't just go out and buy a new bow every year.

You seem very angry about your bow, and I'm not sure I understand.

Do you have a problem with your bow? If so, talk to Martin CS, they will help sort it out.

If you don't have a problem, then I'm not sure what you are mad at Martin for.

It appears, Martin (and all the other manufacturers) are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they don't bring out a host of 'innovative' and 'new' ideas ever year, then 'the range is getting old and stale'. However, if they do bring out something new, that worked well in R&D, but does not seem to translate into production well, and so is subsequently withdrawn, then they are slammed for that too.

I'm glad I'm not selling bows for a living.

WestMichiganBowhunter
10-21-2011, 04:25 AM
I have to say that the 2012 line looks very good.....My first impression is, okay i think Martin has finally recognized that if they don't hit a homerun for 2012 that there going to be in worse trouble than they already are in the eyes of many! So when i flipped thru the pages, i said yes! they are really trying here.

The only thing i was dissappointed with was the grip still.....
I can't believe they still have it......
If you hunt in cold weather as does many, that grip is freakin cold....
The two warmest grips that i have ever had and didn't have to wrap tourney wrap around were my mathews outback (woodgrip) and my Bear Truth 2 with that synthetic grip......they were exceptionally warmer!!!
I wish they would take a serious look at that grip. I haven't heard one good comment about it....
I couldn't shoot accurately with it......The curve needs to go.....Make it a warmer type....it's get cold in michigan u know!

The other concern is....will they actually do their advertised speed. I really hate when bow companys give you a range of speed, example 320-330 ? I know this Parker, Mathews, and my diamond black ice are within 2-3 fps of their claims....to me that is very acceptable. But after owning a few bengals and a firecat, the speeds weren't even close. I hope your reading this Terry Martin or whoever. You have a tremendous ability for 2012 and 2013 to right the ship, because from where i'm sitting and often reading on Archery Talk and talking to my local Dealer in West Michigan, you guys are really headed in a direction with your company and the way the public perceives Martin as a compentent bow maker that will not be financially healthy. I know I have said this many times, i will not own a martin again, and i don't. I would like to and i will say that this 2012 line up get me a little closer. A few things have to happen for me to come back. Be able to accept the grip and the speeds have to be legit! & the bows have to be very quiet. The quality control problem with the limbs I would have to think are behind you guys. I really like the past / extreme parrallel limbs (god do i hope they hold up) and the new cam looks great!

the Prowler looks the best to me! I wonder what the bare bow price will be.

Junior bow......I think your missing the boat on a junior bow like the bear apprentice or the parker sidekick extreme....

All in all I think you really stepped up (on paper atleast) I know you didn't have a choice. We will find out in the field and in the shop.

In a nut shell........Good Job!!!!! You have me looking your way again.

Arrow Splitter
10-21-2011, 05:08 AM
You seem very angry about your bow, and I'm not sure I understand.

Do you have a problem with your bow? If so, talk to Martin CS, they will help sort it out.

If you don't have a problem, then I'm not sure what you are mad at Martin for.

It appears, Martin (and all the other manufacturers) are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they don't bring out a host of 'innovative' and 'new' ideas ever year, then 'the range is getting old and stale'. However, if they do bring out something new, that worked well in R&D, but does not seem to translate into production well, and so is subsequently withdrawn, then they are slammed for that too.

I'm glad I'm not selling bows for a living.Very good point. This goes back to what's been said before:"You won't find a perfect bow". You can't find a perfect anything for that matter.
I believe that Martin did very well on paper this year. They listened to their customers, and delivered.
I'm glad I shoot a Martin!!!!:cool:

SJunior
10-21-2011, 06:32 AM
I wear gloves when it gets cold. I like the grip on my Silencer, wasn't sure about it til after a couple dozen shots.

Double S
10-21-2011, 06:39 AM
I love the grip on my Nemesis.

TIGON
10-21-2011, 08:03 AM
You seem very angry about your bow, and I'm not sure I understand.

Do you have a problem with your bow? If so, talk to Martin CS, they will help sort it out.

If you don't have a problem, then I'm not sure what you are mad at Martin for.

It appears, Martin (and all the other manufacturers) are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they don't bring out a host of 'innovative' and 'new' ideas ever year, then 'the range is getting old and stale'. However, if they do bring out something new, that worked well in R&D, but does not seem to translate into production well, and so is subsequently withdrawn, then they are slammed for that too.

I'm glad I'm not selling bows for a living.

No, I have not had a problem with my bow. I want quality engineering and R&D. Sorry, I expect this from a company that has been in business for 60 years. If they can't stand behind their product than neither will I. Their customer service is great but now if I change the TRG to a cable slide, fine, but what about the SOS or CCS? There is no place for it. This puts a customer in a bad situation. What do you suggest? It sounds to me that eventually I will have problems. And companies are not damned if they do or damned if they don't. Just put a product out that has been thoroughly tested. This is not the 1800 or 1900's, it is 2011, u know? They should know enough to fully test and research their products before releasing them to the public. I would have liked them to release this idea, TRG and SOS, when that all has been completed. I can not afford to buy products from a company that does not do their job. Just my opinion, sorry if it offends anyone, and I'm not mad, just dissapointed.

kylecurtis04
10-21-2011, 08:21 AM
No, I have not had a problem with my bow. I want quality engineering and R&D. Sorry, I expect this from a company that has been in business for 60 years. If they can't stand behind their product than neither will I. Their customer service is great but now if I change the TRG to a cable slide, fine, but what about the SOS or CCS? There is no place for it. This puts a customer in a bad situation. What do you suggest? It sounds to me that eventually I will have problems. And companies are not damned if they do or damned if they don't. Just put a product out that has been thoroughly tested. This is not the 1800 or 1900's, it is 2011, u know? They should know enough to fully test and research their products before releasing them to the public. I would have liked them to release this idea, TRG and SOS, when that all has been completed. I can not afford to buy products from a company that does not do their job. Just my opinion, sorry if it offends anyone, and I'm not mad, just dissapointed.

there are front mounting string stops. get one of those.

bcriner
10-21-2011, 08:33 AM
For those of you who liked the idea of the TRG but are not happy with a regular slide, then check this out. It may be a compromise for you for now.

http://www.elitearchery.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37539

gravedigger
10-21-2011, 08:54 AM
gravediggermtv, I should not have to take MY time to think about what Martin is doing. I have more important things to think about. I like to buy products from companies that fully test their products before releasing them to the public. R&D doesn't happen over night, yes, but they should not have released the new system if it has not been fully tested. So when you crash your car due to faulty breaks and this has happened to mutliple people and maybe caused deaths, then we should just give the car company the benefit of the doubt and let them go back to the drawing board, as you said, and it's not their fault because they didn't fully test it. WTF

i was just asking if you took the time to think about it befor droping martin alltogether.i never said it wasent martins fault for not taking the time to test.what do car companys have to do with the trg,nothing at all.they did good by pulling the trg off the line and maned up to it.im not going to get into it too much with ya but i will say dont toss a WTF at me

TIGON
10-21-2011, 08:59 AM
there are front mounting string stops. get one of those.

Thank for the idea and advise.

TIGON
10-21-2011, 09:00 AM
i was just asking if you took the time to think about it befor droping martin alltogether.i never said it wasent martins fault for not taking the time to test.what do car companys have to do with the trg,nothing at all.they did good by pulling the trg off the line and maned up to it.im not going to get into it too much with ya but i will say dont toss a wtf at me

lol. Lol. Lol

kylecurtis04
10-21-2011, 09:58 AM
not a problem. it just screws on with your stabilizer and is pretty adjustable.


Thank for the idea and advise.

bfisher
10-21-2011, 10:38 AM
No, I have not had a problem with my bow. I want quality engineering and R&D. Sorry, I expect this from a company that has been in business for 60 years. If they can't stand behind their product than neither will I. Their customer service is great but now if I change the TRG to a cable slide, fine, but what about the SOS or CCS? There is no place for it. This puts a customer in a bad situation. What do you suggest? It sounds to me that eventually I will have problems. And companies are not damned if they do or damned if they don't. Just put a product out that has been thoroughly tested. This is not the 1800 or 1900's, it is 2011, u know? They should know enough to fully test and research their products before releasing them to the public. I would have liked them to release this idea, TRG and SOS, when that all has been completed. I can not afford to buy products from a company that does not do their job. Just my opinion, sorry if it offends anyone, and I'm not mad, just dissapointed.

Let's put this one to rest right now. You bought a bow without a string stopper (STS) on it. During this time some issues have come up with the TRG causing excessice cable wear so Martin is, for the time being replacing any that have problems, with a standard cable rod/slide option. Your bow does not have a hole to mount an STS. It didn't have one from the beginning so nothing is lost there. There are aftermarket string stoppers available for those who wish to have one on a bow without this mounting hole. They've been available for several years. They aren't totally necessary, but are a convenience.

You should not have any safety issues with the TRG. As a general rule cables just don't snap. You would see some sort of excessive fraying or wear before that would happen and should be able to recognize it as such. You've say you've been shooting the bow and having no problems.
For that I am totally happy for you.

The problem is, you are crying over spilled milk that hasn't spilled yet. Yes, Martin might have done more R&D with this system, but they didn't. You're not having problems so let it go. If you have problems in the future it's something to take up with the warranty dept. Not one to get on a public forum and bash a company over a problem you have no first hand knowledge about. Period.

Oh, and FYI I think you'll find that the vast majority of folks on this site are not rich. Just blue collar working stiffs such as yourself.

Now let's get back on topic about the 2012 lineup. Likes and dislikes.

peace
10-21-2011, 10:44 AM
On first impressions the line up looks hot. Martin has been around for a long time, that means ups and downs, sometimes rising to heights, other times stumbling, but in this economy I think Martin has stared down the face of hard times and said, We are here, we never left and we are BAD A$$!!!

I want to see more of the quad VEMS, that is a hot idea. Would like to see the line up include both the ShadowCat and The Scepter and it does if you don't get hung up on years. A bow should have a shelf life greater than 12 months and can serve generations when you open your mind, but that is another argument for another day.

There is a lot of wisdom and innovation in this industry across the board from the old guard and the new breed. But if you ignore Martin and its contributions that is to your own loss. This years lineup is clean, and practical looking from the catalog. If quality control issues have been address I think Martin will have a very good year regardless of the economy.

At first glance the Bengal kicks butt. The Pantera looks hot. The Onza III and The Cougar FC look good to me. That Scepter V will be something to be held in the hands of those seeking to wear the crowns. The Prowlers are strutting and I believe the Big Cat in Walla Walla is GROWLING IN 2012!

archerx7
10-21-2011, 11:04 AM
Let's put this one to rest right now. You bought a bow without a string stopper (STS) on it. During this time some issues have come up with the TRG causing excessice cable wear so Martin is, for the time being replacing any that have problems, with a standard cable rod/slide option. Your bow does not have a hole to mount an STS. It didn't have one from the beginning so nothing is lost there. There are aftermarket string stoppers available for those who wish to have one on a bow without this mounting hole. They've been available for several years. They aren't totally necessary, but are a convenience.

You should not have any safety issues with the TRG. As a general rule cables just don't snap. You would see some sort of excessive fraying or wear before that would happen and should be able to recognize it as such. You've say you've been shooting the bow and having no problems.
For that I am totally happy for you.

The problem is, you are crying over spilled milk that hasn't spilled yet. Yes, Martin might have done more R&D with this system, but they didn't. You're not having problems so let it go. If you have problems in the future it's something to take up with the warranty dept. Not one to get on a public forum and bash a company over a problem you have no first hand knowledge about. Period.

Oh, and FYI I think you'll find that the vast majority of folks on this site are not rich. Just blue collar working stiffs such as yourself.

Now let's get back on topic about the 2012 lineup. Likes and dislikes.

Barry, Not meaning to take this off topic, but to clarify something here. The Exile, Leopard and Crossfire all share the same riser and they all have a slot machined below the stabilizer hole that accepts the low mount 2011 STS. All he needs to do is place a call to Martin's CS dept and they will send out the rod/slide and low mount sts conversion.

Now, back on topic. I've never been overly fond of any single cam bow, but this new Fury single cam system certainly has my intrest peaked. Can't wait to get ahold of one and see how it does.

Don B
10-21-2011, 11:39 AM
The Septer is a dang hot looking bow. But why couldn't Martin of kept the Shadowcat, maybe make it a solid one piece riser and brought it up to about 44" ATA.
It looks the the only bow company that has kept the long ata bows is the one that starts with an H
Don.

peace
10-21-2011, 01:24 PM
Don the ShadowCat will be back right around the time Martin Marketing thinks you will replace the ones you have now, :D

Out of this lineup for myself I like the Pantera and the Scepter V. for me all the rest would make great treestand or ground blind bows. I like the longer ATA's. Man if that Bengal came in a larger ATA with just a little more draw, Whew! Well Window shopping an dreaming don't cost a feller nothing but time. :cool:

Sitting here trying hard not to like the new Cougar FC Pro but it I am just falling in love with its lines. Hoping the 32.25 ATA would just not be too short. She is just purring in my ears......that baby is just sweet!




Smarten Up and Martin Up

SJunior
10-21-2011, 03:10 PM
You are not understanding my points and that's ok. My bow came with the SOS. I would had bought a different bow if I knew I was going to have to eventually rebuild my bow. I'm sorry I even started this conversation and all these little comments on the posts that are directed to me, maby I'm taking them wrong but I guarantee you guys would not being saying this to my face. This is my last post. I'm deleting my profile.

TIGON, I believe you are taking the comments way wrong. What you are saying is you will not buy another Martin all because something small and insignificant like the TRG. What everyone is trying to say is that it's not that big of a deal, ALL bow companies have problems.

And yes I would be saying it to your face.

bcriner
10-21-2011, 05:55 PM
The Pantera would be nice bow with the Nitro cams if you can custom order it. I don't see why not. It has never stopped us before from special ordering any bow with any cam set.

kylecurtis04
10-21-2011, 07:47 PM
Anyone else see that Martin is still selling the TRG/SOS in the 2012 catalog?

peace
10-22-2011, 10:10 AM
Any one see the new metal riser takedown Bow. The Saber Takedown, that looks very interesting. ATA ends up 64" that sounds sweet. Hope it is priced near the Jaguar TD.


4764




Smarten Up and Martin Up

Double S
10-22-2011, 11:00 AM
I wish they made a Olympic style Pro series Recurve. I'd buy one immediately. But this is a step up for sure.

alex
10-22-2011, 11:49 AM
Any one see the new metal riser takedown Bow. The Saber Takedown, that looks very interesting. ATA ends up 64" that sounds sweet. Hope it is priced near the Jaguar TD.

Yeah, i saw it and liked it :)

SJunior
10-22-2011, 12:22 PM
Showed the wife the pic of the Scepter and said it sure would be nice to have a target bow set up. She kinda laughed then I told her what I thought the price was gonna be (going off the price of the Shadowcat) and got a snarl out of her. She left the room when I started talking prices on accessories. Guess she needs more convincing!!!

Double S
10-22-2011, 12:25 PM
Did anybody see the Martin Bow carrier / Tree saddle?

I really like the Martin Explorer 68" Takedown too.

Speedykills
10-22-2011, 06:00 PM
He's pissed because he bought a bow with a trg/sos system which is a failure,ya it's nice martin will supply a new cable slide and all but his bow does not come with a hole for the sts,and he doesnt really want a ugly front mounted sts either.
I think for martin to make this right they would drill a new sts hole or provide him with a bow that has a back mounted sts on it,now we will see how good martins ccs is!.
I have nothing against martin i still like there bows but tigen does have a valid point.

MLN1963
10-22-2011, 06:05 PM
He's pissed because he bought a bow with a trg/sos system which is a failure,ya it's nice martin will supply a new cable slide and all but his bow does not come with a hole for the sts,and he doesnt really want a ugly front mounted sts either.I think for martin to make this right they would drill a new sts hole or provide him with a bow that has a back mounted sts on it,now we will see how good martins ccs is!.I have nothing against martin i still like there bows but tigen does have a valid point.Oh, you done brought the wrath of the fan boys down on you now. Remember, sugar and spice and everything nice. Repeat that 1000 times and you should be fine. :cool:

SJunior
10-22-2011, 06:33 PM
Last I checked, the bow will work just fine without the STS. If he still thinks he needs one he can get the front mount. Pretty simple, huh?

Hutch~n~Son Archery
10-23-2011, 02:08 AM
Is this thread about Martin 2012 catalog? or is it going off topic?

LETS STAY ON TOPIC!





Hutch:cool:

MLN1963
10-23-2011, 05:43 AM
Is this thread about Martin 2012 catalog? or is it going off topic?

LETS STAY ON TOPIC!

Hutch:cool:

Did anyone notice all the mistakes in the catalog? All the twin cam bows are pictured with last years Nitro 2 cams. Why are the Mating catalogs always full of mistakes like this? Their advertisement team lacks attention to detail and must have the same quality control standards that the bow assemblers have? These really are simple things that should not happen! Come On Martin, smarten up!

wscywabbit
10-23-2011, 08:59 AM
Idk, maybe the difference between the new Nitro cams and last years are not that visible? There's no mistaking the new single cams though, they look pretty sweet!

NeilMac
10-23-2011, 09:12 AM
The visible difference between the cams is a solid web on the Nitro 1.5 and 2.0 cams, that is not present on the new Nitro cams. But as I have been involved in the past, in the production of product catalogues, I was happy to let Martin have that, as I know exactly how much time, money, effort, money, sweat, money, effort, money and time goes into the production of new catalogues.

This is not unique goof in the world of archery catalogues. Does anyone remember the photoshop specials that PSE had in their catalogues a few years ago?

With all the time, effort and the number of images that have to be worked with, there is ALWAYS a goof or two in EVERY product catalogue. I don't care how many times it is read before publication.

Unless they are tongue in cheek, there are some pretty AT comments on this thread.

Remember: The man that never made a mistake....never MADE anything.

MLN1963
10-23-2011, 11:38 AM
The pictures of the two cams look similar to Rytera cams. There must be some other changes too because the draw length adjustment has increased. I would like to try a set of these cams on my bow because without manipulating the cables and string mine don't go down to the advertised 27" draw length. These babies should do the trick.

WestMichiganBowhunter
10-25-2011, 12:25 PM
you know what was nice was that in 2009 martin came out with the bengal, all redesigned riser, it looked like a mathews drenalin in ways. to me that caught my eye, at the time i couldn't afford one, and still can't or don't want to (oldest in braces) but i wanted a drenalin so bad and the martin bengal was so close in looks and the specs on paper....Loved my 09 bengal!
the limb pockets were slimmed up, innovative yet simple. the limbs were rounded, the cam (m2pro) was rounded and very very adjustable....not the mathews drenalin. the grip solid comfortable / non torque. It came or could come with the sts and the css system.....Holy crap, that bow had alot of nice innovative simple time tested features....kinda like the parker inferno does now........ the price was sooooooooooooo attractible. Why not go back to that instead of the 2012 old cable slide...? Heck they could do the reverse assist like mathews...? why not....
There was nothing wrong with the sts rear mount and the css!
Bring it back until the trg thingy gets figured out......
Hey here's an idea....make a throw back Martin Bengal or Firecat tr1 2010 series.....? Hell I would be the first to buy one.

Two things for martin to prove for 2012
1. there limbs hold up
2.There bows actually will do their rated speed or atleast with 2-3fps.

bfisher
10-26-2011, 07:20 AM
The pictures of the two cams look similar to Rytera cams. There must be some other changes too because the draw length adjustment has increased. I would like to try a set of these cams on my bow because without manipulating the cables and string mine don't go down to the advertised 27" draw length. These babies should do the trick.

You're right about an increase in draw length adjustment. I wonder how they are doing it, but I've got a hunch. The modules appear to be the same on the Nitro cams as last year. It could be, and this is just a guess, that without stating it in the catalog they are using Nitro 1.5 cams for the shorter draw lengths and Nitro 2.0 for the longer ones, installing whichever is needed for the respective orders.

Just like last year, the ShadowCat would only go down to 27" or 27.5" with the Nitro 1.5 cams. That's what kept me from getting one. Now, with the Scepter V it'' go down to 26.5". I don't see that happening with just the Nitro 2.0 cam.

bfisher
10-26-2011, 09:27 AM
OK, just got off the phone with Brandon at Martin. Just as I suspected they are using the two different cam sizes again this year. Shorter draw lengths get the 1.5 cams and longer ones get the 2.0 cams. However, unlike past years the Crimson Red risers will be available. He also told me that parts for the respective bows, risers, cams, etc. are in production in anticipation of production. Orders have not been taken yet and new catalogs (paper) will be shipping later this week or next week.

MLN1963
10-26-2011, 10:00 AM
OK, just got off the phone with Brandon at Martin. Just as I suspected they are using the two different cam sizes again this year. Shorter draw lengths get the 1.5 cams and longer ones get the 2.0 cams. However, unlike past years the Crimson Red risers will be available. He also told me that parts for the respective bows, risers, cams, etc. are in production in anticipation of production. Orders have not been taken yet and new catalogs (paper) will be shipping later this week or next week.

That is a real disappointment to hear. Yes, it is great that they are now letting the dealers order either cam (last year my local dealer was told he could only do that on the Onza III). The disappointing part is the 1.5 cam isn't as fast (FPS) as the 2.0 cam according to what Martin told us last year. I was considering ordering an Onza III Nitro 1.5 until they said it wouldn't be as fast as a 2.0 cam so I dropped that idea. I can see the potential for a lot of 1.5 cam customers coming up short on FPS when they chronograph their new bows and being very disappointed. If I remember correctly the Crossfire has 1.5 cams and it is advertised as a slower bow. Honestly, if that is the case, I think the new Fury XT cam has a good chance of out performing a 1.5 cammed bow. That just isn't right! Now the next question is are there two Fury XT cams as well? Hmmm....:confused:

Don B
10-26-2011, 10:44 AM
Barry,
You didn't happen to ask if the risers were one piece or 3 did you?
Not that it really matters, just wondering.
Another question...would the mods for the 1.5 and 2.0 swap bck and forth from each other?
It seems like that would be the way to go, that way you would have more drawlength adjustment between the two cams.
Just my thoughts,
Don.

bfisher
10-26-2011, 03:46 PM
Barry,
You didn't happen to ask if the risers were one piece or 3 did you?
Not that it really matters, just wondering.
Another question...would the mods for the 1.5 and 2.0 swap bck and forth from each other?
It seems like that would be the way to go, that way you would have more drawlength adjustment between the two cams.
Just my thoughts,
Don.

No, I didn't ask about the risers, but I would take for granted that the Scepter is, as said in the catalog, machined from a one-piece solid billet while all the other bows are 3 pc. The 3 pc has, I think, proven itself reliable enough that I don't see Martin abandoning the concept any time soon. There have been a few isolated cases of the rises coming loose at the joints, but there are probably just as many cases of one-piece risers breaking. It's that rare.

As for the modules? Both cams (1.5 & 2.0) used the same module in past years. Again, I don't see a change in this concept. It helps keep machining costs down.

Mark, you could be right that the new single cam might so as well as the Nitro 1.5. I haven't compared speeds from the newer bows. I shot single cams for 7 years prior to joining with Martin. I had shot dual cams for 25 years prior to that and was glad to go back to the duals. Besides, from a personal stand point I have no choice this year. I refuse to shoot a short bow (< 36") any more and I've always wanted a Scepter and the Nitro 1.5 is the only way to get down to my 27" draw.

Speedykills
10-26-2011, 03:51 PM
After looking at the catologe again i think i take back what i said,that new cougar looks pretty good,couple others too.

MLN1963
10-26-2011, 04:40 PM
Did anybody see the Martin Bow carrier / Tree saddle?

I really like the Martin Explorer 68" Takedown too.

Tree saddle, what is that, didn't see it? I seen the bow carrier.

MLN1963
10-26-2011, 04:41 PM
After looking at the catologe again i think i take back what i said,that new cougar looks pretty good,couple others too.

The Cougar FC Pro is basically a FC400 from last year.

MLN1963
10-26-2011, 04:47 PM
Mark, you could be right that the new single cam might so as well as the Nitro 1.5. I haven't compared speeds from the newer bows. I shot single cams for 7 years prior to joining with Martin. I had shot dual cams for 25 years prior to that and was glad to go back to the duals. Besides, from a personal stand point I have no choice this year. I refuse to shoot a short bow (< 36") any more and I've always wanted a Scepter and the Nitro 1.5 is the only way to get down to my 27" draw.

I understand that is your only option so it is what it is.

I think that it is a big mistake, not to mention misleading, on Martin's part to say the cams have a wide range of adjustment when they really don't. They are speaking of two different cams. Call me a stickler for being forth coming, I think that is an intended slight of hand on Martin's part and I don't like it one bit. That will get their tit in a wringer, you watch and see.

Double S
10-26-2011, 08:07 PM
Tree saddle, what is that, didn't see it? I seen the bow carrier.
I wrote that wrong. Oops. It stated saddle for your Treestand. I guess after your in your treestand, It can be draped across the seat for easy use, access.

MLN1963
10-27-2011, 04:28 AM
Understood, thanks for bringing me up to speed.

archerx7
10-27-2011, 04:49 AM
Using 2 or even 3 different base cams to achieve the full range of draw lengths isn't really new or misleading. Martin and Hoyt have used this method for many years. As you get down to the minimum draw length on a cam, you begin to lose some effeicency as you are no longer using the cams complete rotation as it was designed. Most shop owners will already know that it takes 2-3 different cams to achieve this range and will put the customer into the base cam that will best suit their needs.

Some manufacturers use draw length specific cams and don't make any statements in their advertising that would warn customers of this prior to a purchase. I've had a few of these people bring in their draw specific bows, asking me to make an adjustment to their draw length. To say they were a little upset to find out they needed a new cam(s) to do that, would be an understatment.

Myself, I'm very curious to see and shoot the new Fury XT cam and see what it has to offer. I think this should be a very good year for Martin if this new cam does what it is supposed to and produces close to the speeds they are claiming while maintaining the smooth draw cycle their single cams have been known for.

MLN1963
10-27-2011, 05:07 AM
Using 2 or even 3 different base cams to achieve the full range of draw lengths isn't really new or misleading. Martin and Hoyt have used this method for many years. As you get down to the minimum draw length on a cam, you begin to lose some efficiency as you are no longer using the cams complete rotation as it was designed. Most shop owners will already know that it takes 2-3 different cams to achieve this range and will put the customer into the base cam that will best suit their needs.

Some manufacturers use draw length specific cams and don't make any statements in their advertising that would warn customers of this prior to a purchase. I've had a few of these people bring in their draw specific bows, asking me to make an adjustment to their draw length. To say they were a little upset to find out they needed a new cam(s) to do that, would be an understatement.

Myself, I'm very curious to see and shoot the new Fury XT cam and see what it has to offer. I think this should be a very good year for Martin if this new cam does what it is supposed to and produces close to the speeds they are claiming while maintaining the smooth draw cycle their single cams have been known for.

Using 2 or 3 cams to get results isn't misleading. But those manufactures stated that you get this draw range with one cam and another with another cam. But IMO Martin is misleading in the current catalog because they don't say that there are two cams and what cam gives a specific range. Say Joe Blow sees a bow listed on EBay, Cabela's, Bass Pro, Dicks, Eders or many other mail order sites. He orders one up without knowing there are two cams and he or she may be mighty pissed when they find out they can't get to the DL they saw advertised. Sure, if they go into a knowledgeable shop like yours they get the right one, but not everyone has a local shop and mail order is the way of the world these days.

The Fury XT cam looks a lot like Diamond's Throttle cam.

bfisher
10-27-2011, 06:28 AM
Your point is well taken Mark. They had an oversight and didn't mention the two cam sizes in the new catalog. I'm sure they aren't going to scrap those catalog now and make up a new one. It is going to create some problems. One can only hope that people do their homework and find these things out, but we know that isn't going to happen either. Unfortunately, for the most part, it is the uninformed that do most of the on-line or mail ordering. Presumably to save a few bucks which ultimately ends up costing them more in the long run.

Archeryx7, I hear ya about draw length specific cams. They have the advantage of being more efficient at any given draw length, but as you mention, a lot of people end up finding that what they thought was the right draw for them is not and end up changing the whole works. That's why I never recommend such setups for new or inexperienced shooters. It leaves them with no way to experiment and find something closer to what they should be drawing.

In both cases above, they are just a couple reasons why people should patronize a good shop, at least in the beginning. Once one gets a couple decades of experience then go on line. By that time one also finds that the local proshop isn't really all that bad a place to go. Not only can they service equipment, but have enough stock that things can be tried out before buying.

MLN1963
10-27-2011, 06:55 AM
Over and over the common theme is Martin had an oversight, it was just a mistake, these things happen, blah, blah, blah. Don't you get sick and tired of that? Once again the customer is doing the research and finding things out.

I like my Martin bow don't get me wrong, it's all the other crap that goes with it that makes me wonder how this 62 year old company can let so much slip through the cracks and still be in business?

SJunior
10-27-2011, 11:30 AM
Funny thing is you are the one complaining over and over about it. Maybe you should go work for Martin so it will be perfect.

MLN1963
10-27-2011, 11:55 AM
I just don't sugar coat it. I just get sick of all the people making excuses like it is their child or something. I don't think my addition would result in perfection but it certainly couldn't hurt. :cool: At one point in my career it was my job to find errors in technical documents, procedures in manuals, find better ways and such. Many lives depended on it so i took it seriously. You know what they say, you can take the boy outta the farm but you can't take the farm outta the boy. I can tell you that a very, very large dealer of their's is pretty disappointed as well. He said there has been a lot of personnel changes recently so maybe there is hope?

gravedigger
10-27-2011, 12:14 PM
. He said there has been a lot of personnel changes recently so maybe there is hope?

yep martin go a new sales guy in order to take care of all the reps who were not doing there job and to really try to help sales

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1608905

bfisher
10-27-2011, 12:29 PM
Over and over the common theme is Martin had an oversight, it was just a mistake, these things happen, blah, blah, blah. Don't you get sick and tired of that? Once again the customer is doing the research and finding things out.

I like my Martin bow don't get me wrong, it's all the other crap that goes with it that makes me wonder how this 62 year old company can let so much slip through the cracks and still be in business?

OK, so instead of beating on a dead horse here why don't you make a call to Martin and relay your thoughts to Terry or Ryan personally. Maybe the owners need to hear from more of their customers stating their shortcomings.

gravedigger
10-27-2011, 12:33 PM
OK, so instead of beating on a dead horse here .

come on barry,beating on dead horses is fun and stress releving.i just wont recomend beating on one that is still going it might kick back.lol

MLN1963
10-27-2011, 12:33 PM
Barry, I have spoken to Ryan. That is as far up the chain as I got. Also, that comment wasn't aimed directly at you, it covers a lot of people. I was one of those people when I first got my bow, I have since removed my rose colored glasses.

I'll take a chill pill for a moment. How about that new Pantera, it sure looks sweet. I wonder when they will be in the stores and what they cost?

bfisher
10-27-2011, 02:40 PM
Barry, I have spoken to Ryan. That is as far up the chain as I got. Also, that comment wasn't aimed directly at you, it covers a lot of people. I was one of those people when I first got my bow, I have since removed my rose colored glasses.

I'll take a chill pill for a moment. How about that new Pantera, it sure looks sweet. I wonder when they will be in the stores and what they cost?

I never take anything personally Mark, unless it is directed so. If you talked to Ryan then that's about as high as you can get. Without putting yourself out on a limb did you get any satisfaction? No details, please. I don't want to see another episode like we went through with Sonny.

MLN1963
10-27-2011, 02:53 PM
PM coming your way after I eat.

NeilMac
10-27-2011, 09:54 PM
NO, that's not good enough.

Keep the commercially sensitive stuff to yourself (if there is any), but after all the bleating you've been doing about 'Martin got this wrong and that wrong and what a disaster those pictures are' the least you can do is let us know what Ryan thought about your input.

WestMichiganBowhunter
10-28-2011, 03:10 AM
I don't know if it's getting overlooked or members on here afraid to really say this, so I will


1. will there new cams and redesigned bows really hit their advertised speed......?
2. Will there limbs actually hold up.
3. Will there bows have a quiet sound to them without having to spend a ton of money on sound dampners or the loudness that is often reported. I have a diamond black ice that is freaky quiet without anything on it.

If these 3 things happen to the lineup for 2012 I will get another Martin. I will wait and see

bfisher
10-28-2011, 06:33 AM
I don't know if it's getting overlooked or members on here afraid to really say this, so I will


1. will there new cams and redesigned bows really hit their advertised speed......?
2. Will there limbs actually hold up.
3. Will there bows have a quiet sound to them without having to spend a ton of money on sound dampners or the loudness that is often reported. I have a diamond black ice that is freaky quiet without anything on it.

If these 3 things happen to the lineup for 2012 I will get another Martin. I will wait and see

I'd like to post some input to these questions, but don't take any of it as making excuses for Martin.

1. I've shot compound bows for almost 40 years, long before there was any such thing as IBO ratings and/or a concern for speed; when 200 fps was a real fast setup. Been a shooter for 4 different companies since 1993. During that time I've had about 26 different bows. Using calculations and adjusted for the difference in my draw length, draw weight, and arrow weight I've had only one bow that reached it's IBO speed rating---2004 Martin SlayR with Nitrous B cams. Most all the other bows were 20-30 fps slower.

That's one reason I put no stock in IBO rated speeds. I used to chrono my bows and try tweaking the last FPS out of them. I don't do it any more and rarely even chrono them knowing the results will be disappointing. I've learned to knock 20 fps off the top and calculate for my specs accordingly. I've shot deer with 450gr arrows doing 180 fps and I've shot 315gr arrows doing 235fps to 275fps and the results in all cases were the same---complete pass throughs.

In other words, whether the 2012 bows make speed is of little concern to me as I know that very very few bows from any of the companies do. Unitl the ATA sets up and enforces testing standards, maybe by an independent testing facility, you're not likely to see much change within the industry.

2. It's common knowledge that Martin had limbs problems over the last few years. No need to hash that out. They have changed the limb design and construction to come up with a better limb. Limb failures for 2011 have been pretty well solved now with the Power Tuff limbs. Yes, you do hear of some because there is the internet now with thousands and thousands of users. Not like past years when you heard of one or two a year from the local pro shop.

Over four decades I've had a riser break, a bent riser, two limb failures, new strings just snap, and various other little mishaps. These are mechanical things and prone to a certain amount of failure. Some things are beyond my control so the only way to ensure having no mishaps is to just give up shooting, and that isn't going to happen.

3. Ah, the noise issue. So many things can make a bow noisy there's too many to list. Are you bsing this question on what's been reported or your own personal experience? Most all bows are fairly quiet today if set up and adjusted correctly---cam timing, etc. Bear in mind, also, that any given bow is going to be noisier shooting lighter arrows and being pushed for speed. Is it the bow or the accessories? That's why I don't rely on people from the internet for input. You never know their experience level.

Bows have made noise since the beginning of time. No way around it. That's why there are all these noise reduction accessories being made and sold. And they are used on all makes and models of bows. Pro shops are in business to sell archery equipment and service afterwards. Most will let you shoot bows prior to buying. Try them. Different makes and models. Don't buy any that don't meet your expectations. When you shoot one you like that's the bow you buy; not one out of a new box. The one in the box might be different.

Lastly, I'm not making excuses for any one company or praising any. I'm just speaking of general experiences I've had during my career. A total of about 35 bows from 10 different companies. A few are out of business now, but they all made good bows for their time.

SJunior
10-28-2011, 11:30 AM
The most I've ever spent to quiet a bow is 1 dollar, have yet to own a bow that took more than a set of catwhiskers to make the noise disappear.

MLN1963
10-28-2011, 06:06 PM
I don't think anyone knows yet. My Firecat 400 was $599 (MSRP) last year. The "new" version Cougar FC Pro is basically the same thing so I would bet it is priced about the same. The Cougar is available in dual cam or single cam, so to my pea-sized brain they are very much like the FC400 and FC360 of last year. That is why I think they will be priced about the same.

Don B
11-07-2011, 05:59 AM
One other bow that looks like has been dropped from the lineup along with the Shadowcat is the Seeker.
Don.

bcriner
11-10-2011, 11:30 AM
The Seeker is in the Rytera line. Is will not appear in the Martin catalog just like the Alien-Z, X and Nemesis aren't.

flatsman
11-11-2011, 05:45 AM
saw some 2012 bows on this australian site. The Bengal looks bad

http://www.abbeyarchery.com.au/c/aa9/2012+BOWS.html

dragonsfire311
11-21-2011, 03:14 PM
anyone have any fav's yet in the new line up?

Hutch~n~Son Archery
11-21-2011, 04:33 PM
Bengal is my choice





Hutch:cool:

SJunior
11-22-2011, 06:02 PM
Martin should send me the Scepter for the summer, you know to check for quality control. ;)

Spiker
11-23-2011, 04:25 AM
I dont think they will do that just to get one persons view so when it arrives call me so I can come out and give a second opinion. ;)

droppixel
11-23-2011, 05:11 AM
Bengal is looking like a clear front runner for me if I were in a position for a new Martin. The Onza still strikes my fancy and I'm still very much interested in the Ryteras. Hoping to get over to Cabelas near me this afternoon and see if they have an Onza in store that I could shoot, haven't seen one first hand yet and would like to check it out.

Arrow Splitter
11-23-2011, 11:11 AM
Yeah, and then when they want it back: "I don't know where it is". LOL

Martin should send me the Scepter for the summer, you know to check for quality control. ;)