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csgrizz
11-16-2011, 12:37 PM
In December, 2010, I posted as an unregistered guest with the following problem on the forum with my cheetah:

12-13-2010 06:45 AM #1
Unregistered Guest
Help with Martin Cheetah 2009

Hey guys, I tried to register and it said it has been disabled by administration.

Here is my situation:

I have a Martin Cheetah, New for Xmas LAST year. 2009 bow.

While on stand 2 weeks ago, I had a buck coming in and took the bow off the hanger and set it on my thigh to get ready and heard a small noise and felt the cam "give" a bit.

Never noticed this so I was immediately concerned. Passed on the deer and headed back to the house as soon as it was clear.

I shot several shots with no problems.

If I place the cam in the palm of my hand and apply light pressure the cam SHIFTS upward, and when you let off the pressure it comes back down with a very faint popping noise. There is NO side to side movement, only vertical movement.

I later noticed the top wheel does the exact same thing in the opposite direction. Is this part of the design or are the bushings already worn out? I have shot this bow very little as I had shoulder surgery in May and couldn't shoot from May to September.

I took it to the local shop and they don't deal in Martin but said it would need to be sent back...OR...could be part of the design, the didn't know, they did note they have never seen one do this.

I still have a month of season left here, just looking for some reassurance from Martin.

Any ideas?

Please Help,

Corey Suter
corey_suter@hotmail.com

Thank you in advance for any help.

Eventually I got in touch with Joel from Martin customer service. He was awesome and very professional with dealing with the problem. They worked with a local dealer and sent parts out as soon as feasibly possible during the holiday season.

They replaced basically everything but the riser and my string.

The down fall was I missed almost a month of late archery season on a bow that was one season old.

The second blow was when I picked the bow up and had to pay $50! ($15.00 for shipping, $35.00 for labor). to cover the cost of a bow that was under warranty and broke in one year. That one was very tough to handle.

And the major kicker...the bow is doing the exact same thing again. It seems to get worse with cold. I am at a loss. Don't want to miss another month of season, and don't want to pay another $50 to have it "fixed" again.

looking for opinions,

Should I just cut my losses and go to another brand or what. I am very frustrated, as I have been a faithful Martin guy since 1990.

thanks,

Corey Suter aka csgrizz

Hutch~n~Son Archery
11-16-2011, 12:50 PM
Sorry to hear the problem is back. As far as any bow company goes you would have to pay the pro shop as they are not reinburst for the labor or the shipping. That is just one of the down falls in the archery world. The only alternative is to call joel and ship it there. One way shipping is all it will cost. But as for time lost not much you can do. But maybe wait till after season.




Hutch:cool:

csgrizz
11-28-2011, 12:54 PM
Thanks for the input Hutch,

I understand the cost, its just that at this point in my family life, I couldn't justify a higher priced bow, but if I have to send it back once a year for $50.00 a pop, I will reach a point where I spent the same money as a higher level bow. I guess I get what I pay for, or in this case my wife paid for. lol Always been a Martin guy, I will wait till season is over and give it one more whirl most likely.

later,

CS

elkslayer4x5
12-01-2011, 07:37 AM
In December, 2010, I posted as an unregistered guest with the following problem on the forum with my cheetah:

12-13-2010 06:45 AM #1
Unregistered Guest
Help with Martin Cheetah 2009

Hey guys, I tried to register and it said it has been disabled by administration.

Here is my situation:

I have a Martin Cheetah, New for Xmas LAST year. 2009 bow.

While on stand 2 weeks ago, I had a buck coming in and took the bow off the hanger and set it on my thigh to get ready and heard a small noise and felt the cam "give" a bit. Never noticed this so I was immediately concerned. Passed on the deer and headed back to the house as soon as it was clear.

I shot several shots with no problems.

If I place the cam in the palm of my hand and apply light pressure the cam SHIFTS upward, and when you let off the pressure it comes back down with a very faint popping noise. There is NO side to side movement, only vertical movement.

I later noticed the top wheel does the exact same thing in the opposite direction. Is this part of the design or are the bushings already worn out? I have shot this bow very little as I had shoulder surgery in May and couldn't shoot from May to September.

I took it to the local shop and they don't deal in Martin but said it would need to be sent back...OR...could be part of the design, the didn't know, they did note they have never seen one do this.

I still have a month of season left here, just looking for some reassurance from Martin.

Any ideas?

Please Help,

Corey Suter
corey_suter@hotmail.com

Thank you in advance for any help.

Eventually I got in touch with Joel from Martin customer service. He was awesome and very professional with dealing with the problem. They worked with a local dealer and sent parts out as soon as feasibly possible during the holiday season.

They replaced basically everything but the riser and my string.

The down fall was I missed almost a month of late archery season on a bow that was one season old.

The second blow was when I picked the bow up and had to pay $50! ($15.00 for shipping, $35.00 for labor). to cover the cost of a bow that was under warranty and broke in one year. That one was very tough to handle.

And the major kicker...the bow is doing the exact same thing again. It seems to get worse with cold. I am at a loss. Don't want to miss another month of season, and don't want to pay another $50 to have it "fixed" again.

looking for opinions,

Should I just cut my losses and go to another brand or what. I am very frustrated, as I have been a faithful Martin guy since 1990.

thanks,

Corey Suter aka csgrizz

I know that this will sound a bit crazy, but it sounds as if the axle hole in the limb tips are oval rather than a single hole, allowing the cam and idler to shift. Since you had the work done in a shop, I'm guessing that you did'nt get a look at the limb tips,maybe if you could back the bow down, (turn down the draw weight ) and see if you can twist either cam or idler, reproducing the shift? Just tossin rabbits here. :)

csgrizz
01-17-2012, 05:44 AM
Thanks again for the input, I have emailed customer service to see what they say.

later,

CS

csgrizz
01-31-2012, 07:31 AM
I talked with customer service via email, obtained an RMA # and shipped it back. They received the bow last Wed morning, so now it is just a waiting game.

FYI, it cost me $19 to ship UPS to them with increased insurance...as opposed to the $50 for shipping/labor it cost me last time at the dealer.

Thanks to all that had input, I will keep you posted as to how it turns out.

thanks,

CS

MIKEE
01-31-2012, 11:25 AM
I had the same problem as you,,,after a run around, by the factory,,I sent my bow back to Greg @ hunting and fishing usa 251-943-5584 where i bought the bow,,he fixed what the factory experts couldn't.I almost gave up on the Martins,,,but now that it is properly fixed I love it.Give him a call,,tell him Mike from Wisconsin sent ya.He is the only guy I will EVER buy a Martin from and the only guy I will trust to fix it.If you want any further details,,,which there are many,,pm me,,,

csgrizz
02-06-2012, 04:29 AM
The bow showed up at my house this past Friday night via fedex. So less than two weeks after sending it in. I was not contacted while they had the bow for questions or anything, but I did provide a typed detailed description of the problem.

There was an invoice on the box that noted "couldn't find anything wrong, replaced the cam anyway, cables were crossed the wrong way." (cables that were put on by the martin dealer that did the work last time)

That is troubling since it was making an obvious sound, even to non archers in the office.

The strangest part is it isn't making the sound anymore. I did notice they cranked the bow all the way back down, wondering if that has something to do with it, as I had it backed out a couple turns due to shoulder surgery.

Its shooting great, but its unsettling that they didn't find anything. If it happens again, I am going bow shopping.

thanks for the input guys.

CS

droppixel
02-06-2012, 05:08 AM
The bow showed up at my house this past Friday night via fedex. So less than two weeks after sending it in. I was not contacted while they had the bow for questions or anything, but I did provide a typed detailed description of the problem.

There was an invoice on the box that noted "couldn't find anything wrong, replaced the cam anyway, cables were crossed the wrong way." (cables that were put on by the martin dealer that did the work last time)

That is troubling since it was making an obvious sound, even to non archers in the office.

The strangest part is it isn't making the sound anymore. I did notice they cranked the bow all the way back down, wondering if that has something to do with it, as I had it backed out a couple turns due to shoulder surgery.

Its shooting great, but its unsettling that they didn't find anything. If it happens again, I am going bow shopping.

thanks for the input guys.

CS

Think those are the 2 key pieces to this and your problems. Not all dealers may know what they are doing in my opinion. I would venture to say a lot of car salesmen can't change their oil, brakes or even put in new wiper fluid!

If that was the exact note, it could have been written a little better, but hopefully this solves all the problems. Hate to see a Martin guy stray from the fam!

csgrizz
02-14-2012, 04:38 AM
As noted above, I received my bow back after it's second stint for warranty work for the same issue since Dec '10, with an invoice on the outside of the package noting the cables were crossed the wrong way (set up by authorized dealer)and they couldn't find anything wrong. It also noted they replaced the cam anyway.

Due to bad weather and a 2 week old baby I haven't shot much, but as I was shooting at the end of this past week, I noticed if felt "long" in the draw.

Decided to check, it had the F5 draw module in. I looked up the specs on the martin site for the accu trak, and F5 is 29". I had my bow set for 28" when I sent it in.

I had two sets of modules, one opened, one unopened (dealer sent me a set after a delay in shipping on the original purchase) I checked my set of modules, and the F4 is missing, leading me to believe it was on the bow when I shipped it to martin.

I had that other set of unopened modules...so no biggie, I just switched back to the F4 from the other set. Drew the bow and at about mid draw about when it is going to roll over...there is a loud POP!

Please note this is NOT the same sound from before. I drew it several times and every single time at about mid draw it POPPED loudly. Switched back to the F5 module that was in it and it didn't make a sound.

What gives? Is there a chance the modules are different for a left handed bow?

To Martin's credit, the sticker on the bow says 29" draw...but this is why I would think a phone call may have avoided some confusion...or just sending it back with the same draw that was in it.

I am tired of dealing with emails on this matter, so I wanted to talk with someone in person. Called yesterday and rec'd voice mail. Left message with my cell requesting contact. They didn't call yesterday, but not sure if they were open...us government employees had the day off so maybe they were closed?

Final question...is there a lemon law for bows? :D This is the most frustrating experience I have ever had in the archery world.

sorry for the long post,

CS

Spiker
02-14-2012, 04:47 AM
Is there a draw stop on the bow and if so, did you reset it when you changed the draw length module?

csgrizz
02-14-2012, 05:02 AM
Spiker,

There is a draw stop and I did not adjust it when I changed the module. Would it cause that popping sound? I don't think its in contact with anything at the time of the "pop" but I am open to any and all suggestions.

thanks,

CS

Skbengal
02-14-2012, 06:16 PM
Can you post some pictures of the cam and modules? Have you tried having someone watch the cam while you draw the bow to see if they can pinpoint where the sound is coming from, or maybe they could even see what it's doing?

csgrizz
02-15-2012, 03:23 AM
564856495650

Pics of both sides of the cam, and with the extra draw module that didn't work (made popping sound). Buddy watched for me and said it is popping when it rolls over on the draw module, almost like it is getting hung up on the lip of the module.

Maybe just a bad module?

later,

CS

Spiker
02-15-2012, 03:39 AM
Look to see if the cable track in the module is inline with the track of the cam where they meet, and do the tracks look the same on both mods?

csgrizz
02-15-2012, 06:55 AM
Spiker, I will check that tonight.

I spoke with Joel at Martin literally a few minutes ago, they have someone on it, but the individual wasn't in the office due to illness, but Joel gave me some ideas to try out (draw stop adjustment, etc.) and is sending another module just to be sure it isn't a bad module.

Hopefully I will get things worked out soon.

thanks again for everyone's input on this.

CS

csgrizz
02-17-2012, 04:40 AM
I took the suggestions of Joel and Spiker and others and adjusted the draw stop. It did not effect the popping sound. I decided last night to try the F3 module, assuming if the F5 and F3 both work then it is definitely a bad module.

The F3 actually popped louder. Frustrated beyond belief, I put the F5 back in (only one that has been not making the sound), and adjusted the draw stop.

Now the F5 is also popping when in mid draw cycle. It is much fainter than the other two modules, but definitely is doing the same thing.

I looked very closely while drawing...just as the cable gets to the draw module...it is like it is hanging up for just a micro second then popping over into the channel, hence the sound.

Any other thoughts from the good people of this forum?

later,

CS

Skbengal
02-17-2012, 05:16 AM
Can you take some pictures from the sides of the cam so we can see the alignment of the grooves and how snug the module is to the cam? Is there any chance that the screws that attach the mod to the cam have had the threads stripped?

csgrizz
02-17-2012, 05:20 AM
Can you take some pictures from the sides of the cam so we can see the alignment of the grooves and how snug the module is to the cam? Is there any chance that the screws that attach the mod to the cam have had the threads stripped?

The module seemed to be snug to me, but I did note it almost looks like the cable comes in contact with the module at a angle before "popping" into the channel. I will see what I can get done this weekend. The screws seem to be biting just fine. I even tried backing them off a half turn to see if that made a difference but it didn't. Forgive me guys, in 1998, I was handed a Martin Pride, and shot it for 10 years without a single problem...regretfully, I never learned the ins and outs and workings of the bows, so I am pretty much clueless here. This is my second bow since 98 (minus several bowfishing rigs).

I really appreciate the support of this forum and the guys/gals from Martin that are still working with me.

later,

CS

archerx7
02-17-2012, 05:27 AM
It may not be the module or cam thats at fault, it could be the cable causing the noise, too large diameter of end serving or too many strands in the cable itself. The serving appears to be BCY 3D which is a .017 diameter and works well on the string track but can be a little too large for the takeup (mod) track on some cams. I prefer to use .014 halo on the takeup and payout tracks as it normally fits in the tracks much better, especially at the transition between the cam and mod. Do you know what materials the string builder used and the strand count ?

csgrizz
02-17-2012, 05:35 AM
It may not be the module or cam thats at fault, it could be the cable causing the noise, too large diameter of end serving or too many strands in the cable itself. The serving appears to be BCY 3D which is a .017 diameter and works well on the string track but can be a little too large for the takeup (mod) track on some cams. I prefer to use .014 halo on the takeup and payout tracks as it normally fits in the tracks much better, especially at the transition between the cam and mod. Do you know what materials the string builder used and the strand count ?

Archer, that makes sense, I am not sure on the materials used to build the string. Any thoughts on why it would start doing it now? I have been shooting that particular string for approximately 400-500 shots maybe? Never did that before then started when I switched modules, and now is doing with all modules?

good info, thanks,

CS

archerx7
02-17-2012, 05:59 AM
Archer, that makes sense, I am not sure on the materials used to build the string. Any thoughts on why it would start doing it now? I have been shooting that particular string for approximately 400-500 shots maybe? Never did that before then started when I switched modules, and now is doing with all modules?

good info, thanks,

CS

It could be any number of things....or a combination of things. You said they replaced the original cam, could be the track on the new cam and the mods have a slight misalignment or the track on the new cam is a slightly different diameter than the original cam.......or it could be the serving, 3D end serving starts out pretty smooth and slick and as it wears can get a little rough, especially if going through a track thats a smaller diameter, it will start to hang up at the transtion unless the transition is perfectly in line and the same size. Its been my experience with several different manufacturers that the mods will sometimes have a smaller track than the track on the cam itself, which means the cable diameter needs to be sized to the smaller of the 2 tracks to avoid any problems in the transition.

csgrizz
02-17-2012, 08:17 AM
5668566956705671

The first three are just different angles of the module. It looks to be flush to the cam to my untrained eye. The fourth pic shows a spot on the serving where it comes in contact with the module that is worn pretty good. Not through the serving but its worn...hard to see in the pic.

It was tough to get an angle to take those pics, hope this helps.

thanks,

CS

archerx7
02-17-2012, 09:36 AM
The module appears to be fine, could you get us a pic from the cam up to and including the rod and slide and a side view of the rod/slide.

Skbengal
02-17-2012, 09:43 AM
You see in the bottom picture where the mod meets the cam. Can you take a pic showing how the grooves line up at that point? If I'm looking at it properly that looks like the spot that's starting to chew your serving. Sorry, I'll shut up now real help has arrived.

Tom Cat
02-17-2012, 10:24 AM
May help and may not. On my 2011 Onza 3, at half draw there was a load popping noise that I was sure was coming from the lower cam. Even had others listen and they also agreed it was from the cam. Tryed everything nothing helped. After all things failed, I decided to shift my attention elsewhere, limb bolt and roto cup. I used so white grease everywhere the limb touched the riser. Put it back together and for the last 5 months I have not heard the popping sound.

csgrizz
02-20-2012, 06:32 AM
I had trouble getting a clear shot of the module where the groove line up with the cam, but while trying to take pics, I noticed the problem. The module is INSIDE the grooves for the cam, when the cable rolls over that spot, it hangs and POPS into the groove.

The screws are really tight, so I decided to back them off a few turns while watching the module. I backed em off until they were lined up and then drew the bow...no sound. Put the F4 mod in and tightened it down. It popped as always, backed the screws off until the grooves were lined up and it drew smoothly no sound.

Now that I have identified that sound, here is next problem. I didn't shoot the bow, but after drawing it a few times with the screws backed out a couple turns, the module was LOOSE. I am assuming this is not supposed to happen.

So is the NEW cam that I just got from warranty work faulty or what? I really do not want to go for warranty work number 3 since dec 2010, but it is rapidly going that direction.

later,

CS

bfisher
02-20-2012, 07:00 AM
Just a thought here, but following ArcherX7 thougts about serving diameter and module track it canmake some sense. We're talking about the cable lining up with the mocule groove, right? Well, it's in the design of these things and some bows do it and others do not, but the cable cannot track straight into the module groove because the cable itslelf is being pulled on an angle toward the cable slide. This causes the cable to slide into the module groove from the side, if you kow what I mean. Then, if you have any cam lean at all it compounds the problem.

This is just a suggestion, but you might try a shim between the cam and the module. You might even try shimming just the one module at one end. That being the one closest to the cable slide. It would give you the same effect a loosening the module screws, but in this case you could tighten the screws down so they don't back out. Whatever shim you use doesn't need to be anything thick. I'm thinking maybe one of those thin rubber spacers that you can put between a quiver bracket and the bow.

Or, as X7 mentioned, maybe smaller diameter serving. Consider this. The difference between .017 and .014 serving diameter is only .003", but you have it all the way around the string so it's actually double or .006". It might make the difference. I know it's a PITA, but if it works then you've learned something for the future.

As an example on my Alien Z with a CCS I didn't care for how far the cables were pulled to the side. So I removed it, placed a small washer 1/8" thick under the front screw and bolted it back up. This angled the CCS toward the string more reducing what I considered excessive cable clearance and side torque. Whether it does any good or not I don't know, but it did wonders for my confidence.

MIKEE
02-21-2012, 05:35 AM
I'm tellin ya,,,call Greg @ Hunting&Fishing USA,,,I had the same bizzare stuff goin on with my Cheetah and he fixed it,,,if I remember correctly it was in the roto-cup area.

csgrizz
02-22-2012, 06:54 AM
Mike, I called and got his voice mail and left him a message. At this point I am so frustrated I am willing to take any and all opinions and advice.

Skbengal
02-22-2012, 10:08 AM
Grizz, it sounds like you found the problem. If I were you, I would just make a shim for the module and you should be good to go. Use a piece of rubber like Barry suggested, or even a piece of bicycle tire inner tube. It should be quite easy to do. Me, I don't like paying guys to do things that I can do myself. Give it a try, and let us know how you make out. You certainly won't hurt anything.

csgrizz
02-23-2012, 09:52 AM
My frustration level is through the roof. I stopped by the authorized dealer because I was in town for business, and it was recommended that I get a RMA# again and send it back.

I sent Martin and email today.

Thanks to everyone that has offered suggestions and even behind the scenes help. This is a great bunch of people on this forum, I really appreciate everyone that had input and will keep you all updated.

Thanks,

CS

MLN1963
02-23-2012, 10:24 AM
I think in most cases sending it back to Martin is the best bet. Not only is it cheaper for shipping than labor but if something else turns out to be the problem Martin has the parts on hand where the dealler will need to order them and have more down time.