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Bo Hunter
01-08-2012, 03:03 PM
Today I finished my paper tuner so I began to paper tune my bow. Before I paper tuned my bow I used the Laser Bowplane to make sure I had no cam lean, I had center shot setup and the nock was level with the rest. After I shot the bow through the paper tuner This is what I got.
5357

I reviewed the Easton Tuning Guide and noticed with a pattern like that I should move the nock point up a 1/16" of an inch. So i did. and I did again and again. In fact I had to move it several times before I got what was even close to being dead on. This is what I now have.
5358

Am I right to not be happy with that? I'm not really sure what else to do. This is a pic of my setup and as you will see the nock is extreemly high. It looks odd. I may be doing something wrong.
5359
I should also note that I intend on using FOB's after the bow is tuned properly. As is, although im no expert, the FOB looks like it would not pass the top of the rest correctly....unless it drops significantly when fired. Should I be moving the rest as well? Here is a pic with the FOB installed.
53605361

Bo Hunter
01-08-2012, 05:20 PM
OK,

I failed to mention that I was shooting cheap walmart arrows because I didnt want to screw up the blazers on my expensive victory V1 arrows. The trophy ridge revolution has been known to eat fletchings. I've been doing some reading and I went to Carbon Arrow University and noticed that if the spine size of the cheap walmart arrows was different (as well as length) than my v1 arrows I'd get problems. So I decided to take a chance and shoot my v1 arrows. Immediatley I noticed in the paper test that the nock was too high. WOW what a difference. I adjusted the nock to what this:
5362
I shot 2 more times with similar results. Could I have tourqed the shot or do I need to adjust something else?

Speedykills
01-08-2012, 05:49 PM
May have torqued it,maybe take a break and shoot it next day and see what it does.

Also so looks like your nock point is high,just doesnt look right.I say start over with noch set 1/8" above level and then paper tune again.

SJunior
01-08-2012, 06:41 PM
I've never messed with that rest, but it looks like it is sitting high to me. There's no way the nocking point should be that high. I'd set the rest so it's even with the Berger holes then reset your nock point then paper tune again.

Buzz Lite Beer
01-08-2012, 11:20 PM
Those black marks on the bottom fletchings look like an obvious indication that there is contact issues with the rest of some kind, perhaps rest isn't moving out of the way in time or possibly rotating back a ways due to a rebound, + it's really a good idea to always use the arrows you intend to shoot with to do your tuning with, also looks from each of your results that the rest needs to come out a little too, but you do need to ensure you have total clearance first :)

polaris754
01-09-2012, 12:48 AM
My first guess is your forum, look in a mirror at draw i think u have yer head down ,wrong anchor point or peeps way off, the arrow should never be like that,im sure its hooking up after the shot,if a mirror isnt available have someone take a pix to post here,good luc

Bo Hunter
01-09-2012, 10:33 AM
Those black marks on the bottom fletchings look like an obvious indication that there is contact issues with the rest of some kind, perhaps rest isn't moving out of the way in time or possibly rotating back a ways due to a rebound, + it's really a good idea to always use the arrows you intend to shoot with to do your tuning with, also looks from each of your results that the rest needs to come out a little too, but you do need to ensure you have total clearance first :)

That's the walmart arrows that I bought and used for initial setup. I had contact with the rest until i got it situated. Now I've swapped to my expensive v1 arrows and have no contact. It shoots like the pic in my last post. Also the nock is not as high now. I had to move it down after swapping to that arrow. To me, it still looks high but not like before. You said the rest needs to come out. You mean move it left? (POV being aiming at the target)

I'll post an updated pic when I get home this evening.

Spiker
01-09-2012, 01:43 PM
Just from the pics - your nock point is at least and inch high, maybe more.
Also- the rest is way too high. The center pivot point of the rest should be inline with the berger holes.
Almost looks like a lefty rest mounted on a right hand bow.
You can kind of use the slide rod as a reference when you look at how your arrow sits.
Your arrow should basically parallel to the rod when the rest is up.

Ehunter
01-09-2012, 04:24 PM
My FC400 did the exact same thing. I screwed with it for months trying to get it closer to what should be right. Tuned in as a good 1 inch nock high. Everytime I tried something, it wanted to be VERY nock high. Tore it completely down and re-installed everything. It wanted to be set back to the same screwed up position. Finally, deer season got close enough, I just ended up leaving it alone. Now that deer season is over, I have all year to try to get it right.

tvs
01-09-2012, 06:42 PM
had dealing with this rest you may want to send it in to be relace

Bo Hunter
01-11-2012, 03:50 PM
5377
This is what my bow looks like after I swapped to my v1 arrows. As you can see the nock still looks a little high but not bad like before. It paper tunes almost perfect. I plan on taking someone's suggestion of lowering my rest to make it even with the screw holes and paper tuning again. As you can see from my next pic, the blazers are not contacting the rest. I'm pretty happy with the perfomance of the rest, however, I must say setting up the rest is no easy task.

5378

As soon as i move the rest and re paper tune I'll post my results so that you guys can see. After I have it tuned I'll shoot a few hundred arrows over the next week and let you know how the rest works.

Spiker
01-11-2012, 04:06 PM
Is this a dual cam bow?

Bo Hunter
01-11-2012, 04:21 PM
Is this a dual cam bow?

2011 Martin Exile. Single Cam

Bo Hunter
01-14-2012, 06:12 PM
Ok, The first pic is of me (pardon the hair and pj's, I need a haircut bad) with my natural form. Im using my mechanical release against my jaw and the string comes around my mouth and my nose touches the tip of the string. If you notice the peep is high. (I'll get to that)

The second pic is a pic of me with the form that a guy at the pro shop told me to use. This is the reason the peep sight is so high. In this position I lose my anchor point and dont feel that im consistant. My question is, which looks correct? If any.... Also I looked at the charts for victory arrows...My bow is set at 58lbs and I should be shooting 400's but at 67lbs and up I should be shooting 350's. Since I own 350's I'll move up my draw weight to 67 or so then try it out again. Maybe that will fix my paper tune results. Any tips on my form is appreciated.

TIA

539053915392

polaris754
01-15-2012, 01:14 AM
Im not a pro by no means, but it dose look like yer draw length is too long, second pic looks better ,The bow arm should be slightly bent at the elbow.Im sure some one else will chime in soon,and give more help BO, nice bow btw, good luc!

Ehunter
01-15-2012, 03:04 AM
I think Polaris is right. it does look like your draw length is a bit long. Your bow arm looks like it's full;y extended. It should have a slight bend in the elbow. Much easier to hold a bow steady that way. As far as the two pics, the top one looks better to me. You have no good anchor for your release hand in the second pic. That's going to leave you floating all over the place when you shoot. I know my form isn't the best around, but it's much closer to what you are doing in the first pic.

Hutch~n~Son Archery
01-15-2012, 04:01 AM
A couple of things, they guys are right the draw length is too long by 1/2 inch to and inch. The first pic is good form for you. But looking at the pic the peep looks too high and it looks like you are tilting the bow down to look into the peep. This could be because the draw length is too long. Just my opinion .
Just noticed you mentioned the peep. It still would help if you set your peep with the bow level, so you can see how much shorter your draw length needs to go. It seem to me only an 1/2 inch. That would bring you arm in and your elbow out.

Hutch:cool:

Spiker
01-15-2012, 06:59 AM
Dry fire waiting to happen. :eek:

NuttyNative
01-15-2012, 07:32 AM
No pro here either. The first pic looks natural for you IMO. But, as Hutch said, the peep looks a tad high. Using the tip of your nose is a consistant anchor point, wheras, the side may move around a titch. Two things I see, anchor point on nose and your grip. Both are important in consistancy. I'm sure my form needs tons of work but I'm comfortable, mentally aware of where my anchors are before I shoot, and pretty accurate. I say do what feels good if your accuracy is there.

Bo Hunter
01-15-2012, 07:39 AM
I was sort of thinking it was too long. How do I go about shortening it? I'm using the smallest piece that came with the exile. F7 I think....does adjusting draw length change the let off? (just curious). Also I've never dry fired a bow and never would. ;)

If I shorten my draw do you think I would then need to shorten my arrows? They are about an inch off the front of the riser as of now.

gravedigger
01-15-2012, 07:40 AM
i would have to second all the above.

draw to long by 1/2 to 3/4".it would fix your bow are and bring your ancore to where it needs to be.

the uneven tare could be from the long dl and bad ancore .

Arrow Splitter
01-15-2012, 07:53 AM
I was sort of thinking it was too long. How do I go about shortening it? I'm using the smallest piece that came with the exile. F7 I think....does adjusting draw length change the let off? (just curious). Also I've never dry fired a bow and never would. ;)

If I shorten my draw do you think I would then need to shorten my arrows? They are about an inch off the front of the riser as of now.Your shop should be able to swap the mod out for the shorter DL one.
Spiker was refering to the risk involved in drawing a bow without an arrow nocked(example: release malfunction).

A.S

Spiker
01-15-2012, 08:10 AM
F7 is the longest module. If you have the F6 switch it out and see how that feels BUT - -
never ever never draw the bow without an arrow on the string and pointed in a safe direction!!!!

Bo Hunter
01-15-2012, 10:49 AM
I'm wrong on the draw module then. I have the smallest one installed whatever that may be. Roger on the dry fire, I'll do that next time. I'll get that fixed as soon as possible and re post. Sorry to keep this thread going so long but I don't have a lot of time to mess with it each day. Thanks for all the advice.

Arrow Splitter
01-15-2012, 11:00 AM
I'm wrong on the draw module then. I have the smallest one installed whatever that may be. Roger on the dry fire, I'll do that next time. I'll get that fixed as soon as possible and re post. Sorry to keep this thread going so long but I don't have a lot of time to mess with it each day. Thanks for all the advice.F1 is the smallest module, and that would mean that draw length is currently 25".

Don't worry about the length of your thread, because that's why this is the Martin Tech Forum.:cool:

polaris754
01-15-2012, 05:41 PM
What i was looking at in the second pic ,the peep was lined up better, and the bow was held more parallel,looking at a shorter draw to pull every thing into place, was my best guess,Ehunter was right, ,anchor point in pic one is better.

Bo Hunter
01-15-2012, 06:52 PM
I had my draw shortend tonight. I had an f2 in and they replaced with an f1. Now it feels more comfortable. Thanks guys! Im going to get my wife to take another pic tomorrow and I'll paper test soon after. Hopefully all will be solved.

polaris754
01-16-2012, 12:40 AM
Don,t ferget to chuck a arrow in this time !!!!!!!:rolleyes:

boobowbender
01-16-2012, 04:20 AM
your gettin there. now relax your bow hand and let the bows handle relax between your thumb and index finger. any "grabbing" will torque it. CAUTION: DO NOT LET THE BOW JUMP OUT OF YOUR HAND seen this done after trying to tell some one to relax their grip!
hopes someone chimes in here cuz i'm no pro

Arrow Splitter
01-16-2012, 04:40 AM
your gettin there. now relax your bow hand and let the bows handle relax between your thumb and index finger. any "grabbing" will torque it. CAUTION: DO NOT LET THE BOW JUMP OUT OF YOUR HAND seen this done after trying to tell some one to relax their grip!
hopes someone chimes in here cuz i'm no proActually, you're right on. If the shooter grips the bow, this will result in the riser being twisted to the left or right causing inaccuracy.

Ehunter
01-16-2012, 09:11 AM
Looks like he has a sling on the bow, so he shouldn't be in any trouble with it jumping. Let us all know how the tuning turns out.

bfisher
01-17-2012, 03:21 AM
I have to agree about gripping the bow. Although nothing is ever written in stone it's commonly accepted that the best position for the hand on the grip is with the hand turned out about 45 degrees with the bow sitting on the meaty part of the thumb pad and the hand totally relaxed. With the hand in this position the fingers will naturally curl around the front of the riser very loosely, but still keep the bow from jumping out of your hand. Really, with the amount of recoil today's bows have there isn't much reason to have a wrist sling any more except for when shooting down hill or out of a treestand. The whole idea of shooting a totally relaxed grip, as I was taught many years ago, is that you are supposed to shoot the bow and then let the bow shoot the arrow. It's one part of the follow through.

I hate the term "grip the bow" because you should not be gripping it in the first place. I refer to it as hand position. In case anybody is interested there are some fine tutorials on Randy Ulmer's website.

archerx7
01-17-2012, 03:40 AM
Ok, The first pic is of me (pardon the hair and pj's, I need a haircut bad) with my natural form. Im using my mechanical release against my jaw and the string comes around my mouth and my nose touches the tip of the string. If you notice the peep is high. (I'll get to that)

The second pic is a pic of me with the form that a guy at the pro shop told me to use. This is the reason the peep sight is so high. In this position I lose my anchor point and dont feel that im consistant. My question is, which looks correct? If any.... Also I looked at the charts for victory arrows...My bow is set at 58lbs and I should be shooting 400's but at 67lbs and up I should be shooting 350's. Since I own 350's I'll move up my draw weight to 67 or so then try it out again. Maybe that will fix my paper tune results. Any tips on my form is appreciated.

TIA

539053915392

The one thing that I see in both pics, and it may just be the angle they were taken from, but.........it appears your wrist sling has been adjusted so that there is a lot of pressure on it. The sling should be adjusted to fit loosley around the wrist so as not to affect the natural movement of the bow during the aiming and shot cycle. Too much tension on the sling can affect the way a bow tunes as well as the accuracy of the bow. The sling should be adjusted so that at full draw......someone standing beside you can easily slip a couple fingers between your wrist and the sling.

DeanMiller
02-17-2012, 05:57 AM
This is why I'm not a big fan of paper tuning. To get a straight tear you move the set up until if works at ten feet. If you move the paper and shoot farther, you will see the arrow flying poorly.

I like what others are saying:
Start over over with arrow in line with the string, and level with the bolt hole.

I like the method called "Superfine Tuning" from the Martin owner's manual.
Thanks for the question
Dean

wscywabbit
02-17-2012, 06:52 AM
Just from the pics - your nock point is at least and inch high, maybe more.
Also- the rest is way too high. The center pivot point of the rest should be inline with the berger holes.
Almost looks like a lefty rest mounted on a right hand bow.
You can kind of use the slide rod as a reference when you look at how your arrow sits.
Your arrow should basically parallel to the rod when the rest is up.

I think Spiker has found your main problem, other than draw length and anchor points; the rest is set too high, of course your nock is going to be high in order to compensate. I also have the revolution, and if you nock an arrow, then pull down on the string you'll see that the front of the rest will come up a tad; this is where the rest actually sets at full draw. Put that in combination with it being set too high to begin with and your rest isn't a little high, its allot high. Try moving the rest and nock point down so that when you pull on the string, your arrow sits level across the berger holes, then shoot it through paper again. :)

bigredhunter00
02-17-2012, 10:00 AM
first pic is how i shoot minus my dl is correct for me so everything looks level. Like most everyones comment ur dl does look long, shorten by half inch to start with and drop peep a tad. if its still looks like its still a bit long, drop another half inch and drop peep a bit more. Should bring everything
together.