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droppixel
01-21-2012, 11:54 AM
As the title says, any disadvantages to being overspined? I currently shoot GoldTip Velocity 400 and was wanting to have a slightly heavier arrow. I know a seller that has these shafts at great prices compared to others. From what I know, I'm a touch on the weak side with my set up with the 400s but still in the "green" range when guys have run some numbers for me on OT2.

I could correct the weight issue with their weight system, but with the current arrows that will only weaken the spine further. I've thought about going to the Velocity 300 so that I could shoot fully maxed out, while maintaining minimum 5 Gr/lb and without being too weak. Also thought about this since I have really been thinking about finding a way for a newer bow than my Cheetah, which would have a higher rate of speed and energy resulting from that. Anyone able to share any insight they may have on this? AT responses are typically all over the darn place and I like you people better anyway :p

Spiker
01-21-2012, 04:09 PM
As the title says, any disadvantages to being overspined? I currently shoot GoldTip Velocity 400 and was wanting to have a slightly heavier arrow. I know a seller that has these shafts at great prices compared to others. From what I know, I'm a touch on the weak side with my set up with the 400s but still in the "green" range when guys have run some numbers for me on OT2.

I could correct the weight issue with their weight system, but with the current arrows that will only weaken the spine further. I've thought about going to the Velocity 300 so that I could shoot fully maxed out, while maintaining minimum 5 Gr/lb and without being too weak. Also thought about this since I have really been thinking about finding a way for a newer bow than my Cheetah, which would have a higher rate of speed and energy resulting from that. Anyone able to share any insight they may have on this? AT responses are typically all over the darn place and I like you people better anyway :p

I've been playing with the same drama. I wanted to go a bit lighter on my arrows so I got some Velocity 400's. I have been shooting the XT 5575's (400 spine)
Well the Velocity's act way weak out of my bow, and they show weak on OT2 also - altho they do shoot a lot faster...
If your just wanting to up your arrow weight a bit then the XT 5575's may work out really well for you. Have you tried them? They weigh about 30gns more and
even tho they are the same spine - they act stiffer than the Velocity's.
On OT2, with my setup, XT 5575's are dead center in the green, Velocity 400's are just into the yellow on the weak side.
I thought about going to the Velocity 300's too, but they would be way overspined plus the weight puts me back almost the same as the 5575's.
If GT only made a Velocity 350 - - I would be stoked!!!
I think being one step up overspined, especially with broadheads, would not be an issue at all but going all the way from 400 to 300 at the same draw weight
may cause more tuning problems.
Another way to just add a bit more weight with the GT's is to get the camo or crested arrows rather than the plain ones.
You can also change the spine/foc slightly by using the lighter, Velocity style, nocks and inserts with the XT arrows or visa versa...

wscywabbit
01-21-2012, 04:18 PM
There's not any real disadvantage to shooting heavier spine, as a matter a fact I'd much rather shoot over-spined than under.

Just to give you some piece of mind, I had 350 spine arrows for my 70# Saber, which were slightly over-spined. When the limb broke, I took it to a shop to get the limbs replaced. Whoever set it back up did not put it back into spec, so it was only 63#. I shot a deer that season, and it wasn't until the next year when I got my own scale that I found out it was setup wrong.

Point being, that the bow paper tuned, field tuned, and shot just fine, being way over-spined.

wscywabbit
01-21-2012, 04:38 PM
Oh, and there may be some advantages to being over-spined as well...


Being stiffer and heavier also means more wind or plane resistant
you can "weaken" the spine if its too stiff by using a heavier point or broadhead, which also gives you a higher FOC
With the heavier arrows, you will lose some speed, but your kinetic energy should go up, which means better penetration

droppixel
01-21-2012, 08:43 PM
Oh, and there may be some advantages to being over-spined as well...


Being stiffer and heavier also means more wind or plane resistant
you can "weaken" the spine if its too stiff by using a heavier point or broadhead, which also gives you a higher FOC
With the heavier arrows, you will lose some speed, but your kinetic energy should go up, which means better penetration


Of any of the factors - speed loss would be one of my lesser concerns. I could very easily not be too greedy and stick to a 60-66lb draw and be good with the grains per inch and maintain the same arrow set up that I currently have, which served me well this season with 2 clean shots on some does. Sadly, I didn't find on of them. Overall I love the arrows.

Spiker, the 5575 are something I have considered for the additional weight. With the Velocity, I have a place where I can get them for $57/dzn. Generally speaking, I'm on a tight budget almost all the time unless I have some fortunate swings here and there. As for the 350 that would be awesome, with that I have looked at HTA HT2 in the 350 but with the recent Muddy transaction, not sure how readily available they will continue to be and what the cost will shake out too.

NuttyNative
02-01-2012, 08:07 PM
I'm wanting to experiment with arrow spine and weight with a goal of gaining a little safe speed with the Firecat @ 66# and 30" draw.
My current set up is Carbon Express Mutiny 350's, 29.5", 100 gr fp & broadheads, total arrow weight 425gr.
Straightness: .003"
Weight Tolerance: 2.0 grain
Grs/Inch: 9.4
Spine: .332"
Diameter: .301"

Was wanting to go to Mutiny 250's
Straightness: .003"
Weight Tolerance: 2.0 grain
Grs/Inch: 8.5
Spine: .404"
Diameter: .298"
If I did my math right I could drop to 366.75gr with this arrow using 85gr fp & broadheads. Was just wondering if this is a feasible option. I really like the performance of this arrow and the cost is excellent for the tolerances.

bfisher
02-02-2012, 04:42 AM
As mentioned there are few draw backs to shooting an arrow that is too stiff (according to the charts). The one that I can think of is that groups might open up a bit when shooting longer distances--maybe over 40 yards. I have always recommended that guys simply drop the draw weight 5# if their arrows are borderline, but guys seem to be stuck on the idea of bigger numbers or the old adage that a bow shoots better maxed out. Being a frugal type I'd rather just drop the draw weight a few pounds, give up a few fps and be done with it.

That being said, if you get on Lancaster's website you can find weight tubes that fit into the arrows to---add extra weight. Being a speed freak I've never used them, but it's just an option I'm throwing out for you. Another might be to use a heavier tip and heavier fletching so as to not upset the foc too much.

To mention the idea of overspined arrows? Right now I'm shooting GT Pro 22 series for indoor at 27" and 42#. Way way overspined, but they punch bullet holes through paper and group very well for the 20 yards I'm shooting. So who cares what the charts or computer programs say?

darkember
02-02-2012, 08:11 AM
Overspined will always be the wise way to go. If the arrow is underspined it can distort during release which will affect its accuracy & trajectory.

bob cooly
02-02-2012, 08:40 AM
Currently shooting a 340 Axis cut 29", total arrow weight is 420 grains out of a 50lb Onza and having to shoot at different spots at 17 yrds or risk ruining arrows as I did yesterday. At 30 yards I don't think being over spined will be a disadvantage. Hunting broadhead is a Magnus 100 4 blade Buzzcut.

NuttyNative
02-02-2012, 02:50 PM
I'm wanting to experiment with arrow spine and weight with a goal of gaining a little safe speed with the Firecat @ 66# and 30" draw.
My current set up is Carbon Express Mutiny 350's, 29.5", 100 gr fp & broadheads, total arrow weight 425gr.
Straightness: .003"
Weight Tolerance: 2.0 grain
Grs/Inch: 9.4
Spine: .332"
Diameter: .301"

Was wanting to go to Mutiny 250's
Straightness: .003"
Weight Tolerance: 2.0 grain
Grs/Inch: 8.5
Spine: .404"
Diameter: .298"
If I did my math right I could drop to 366.75gr with this arrow using 85gr fp & broadheads. Was just wondering if this is a feasible option. I really like the performance of this arrow and the cost is excellent for the tolerances.

Sound like it will be a safe set up?

Money Man
02-02-2012, 06:58 PM
Found this video that deals with arrow flex and spine issues, thought it pertained to this thread http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/hunting/2012/02/video-arrow-flex-super-slow-motion?cmpid=enews020212&spPodID=020&spMailingID=4374280&spUserID=MTcyMDY0MTQ0OTIS1&spJobID=262106914&spReportId=MjYyMTA2OTE0S0

wscywabbit
02-02-2012, 07:04 PM
Sound like it will be a safe set up?

I'm sure you'll be fine either way, just remember, with Carbon Express the higher the number, the stiffer the arrow... so your 350's are actually a heavier spine than the 250 arrows.

The 250 arrows are about a 400 spine if I remember right, and you should be fine @ 66#s. Especially if you're going to use a lighter head.

Wolverine67
02-04-2012, 02:34 AM
Hi
What if you want to go the other way, making your arrows heavier. I use Victory V-force 400, with 125 gr. BH. Total arrow weight 403gr. Bow currently set to 45#, but will be set to 60# for hunting. For heavier game (moose etc.) I would like a 450-500 gr. arrow. Could I use brass inserts or just a heavy BH or would that get me into red zone? I cannot figure out the charts here. :confused:

droppixel
02-04-2012, 04:50 AM
Going to be a few different factors for you. What length arrow are you looking to shoot? If you get too much weight out front on a longer arrow, your effective spine is going to go down. You could potentially keep the length and BH you shoot now just by looking into a shaft that has more GPI while maintaining the same spine. The arrow game is a goofy one ;)

Jake-the-snake
02-04-2012, 09:45 AM
A few disadvantages for sure, as have already been pointed out. What are you using these arrows for, and what is your current setup?

droppixel
02-04-2012, 12:15 PM
Personally my set up might change soon, but for everyone else interested, I could like to keep the thread/discussion going.

If it weren't changing, I'm shooting the 07 Cheetah in my sig at 29" DW 64-67# - haven't had it on a scale, so that is my estimation. 27.5" Gt Velocity 400s 100g tip/BH. I'm primarily hunting and I shoot 3D.

NuttyNative
02-04-2012, 01:26 PM
Hi
What if you want to go the other way, making your arrows heavier. I use Victory V-force 400, with 125 gr. BH. Total arrow weight 403gr. Bow currently set to 45#, but will be set to 60# for hunting. For heavier game (moose etc.) I would like a 450-500 gr. arrow. Could I use brass inserts or just a heavy BH or would that get me into red zone? I cannot figure out the charts here. :confused:

Well, as for me. I am currently at 425 and going to 450 is a simple broadhead/tip change to 125 gr or more. 500+ would require a brass insert, but I'm going the other direction. According to the Backcountry bowhunting caculator I can safely go as low as 330gr, but I'm not sure of the spine. I'm going to start 350-375ish with a 400 spine and see where the noise level is and speed increase. BCB says 303fps?

droppixel
02-04-2012, 01:29 PM
To give you an idea of where I am at, sitting around 340g and I feel like my bow is super quiet. I'm sure if I kicked the weight up it would be even more quiet!

dzsmith
02-04-2012, 05:33 PM
i have always shot underspined arrows, i should be shooting 400 and i shoot 340, with my bow completely maxxed out. ive never had a problem, never broke an arrow.

bfisher
02-04-2012, 06:35 PM
i have always shot underspined arrows, i should be shooting 400 and i shoot 340, with my bow completely maxxed out. ive never had a problem, never broke an arrow.

FYI a 340 spine is stiffer than a 400. Don't confuse spine deflection with the name (number) used by some companies like Carbon Express. The model designation on their arrows does not coincide with any spine rating. A Carbon Express 250 is actually a 404 spine and the 350 is stiffer.

Easton/Beman number theirs according to spine. The lower the number the stiffer the shaft. Gold Tip does this with the Ultralites and Velocity shafts.