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View Full Version : roller cable guard vs standard



cmwr
03-25-2012, 10:55 AM
Why is it all the Martin lineup has an old school standard cable guard with a slide? I mean isn't the industry standard these days seem to be roller cable guards on most newer bows? yet the Martin lineup is still offering a cable guard setup that looks like it came from the 80s or 90s. I am not saying this is bad. I am just wondering why with all the 2012 innovations this is all they have for a cable guard? Can a person order a roller guard from rytera and bolt it right on a Martin bow or is it even able to remove the cable guards? It appears as if they may be pressed in the riser.

droppixel
03-25-2012, 12:01 PM
9 times out of 10 ... if it ain't broke don't fix it or leave it alone. There are benefits to both I believe, but the rod/slide is very stable and probably much easier to work with in terms of torque on the cams, limb, etc. Also could be from a machining and cost perspective. I would rather have a steady cable guide system in a rod and slide if that is going to save me a $100 or what-have you in terms of retail. I'd venture to say I like the rod and slide on my Cheetah more-so than the CCS on my Alien.

Thermodude
03-25-2012, 12:14 PM
9 times out of 10 ... if it ain't broke don't fix it or leave it alone. There are benefits to both I believe, but the rod/slide is very stable and probably much easier to work with in terms of torque on the cams, limb, etc. Also could be from a machining and cost perspective. I would rather have a steady cable guide system in a rod and slide if that is going to save me a $100 or what-have you in terms of retail. I'd venture to say I like the rod and slide on my Cheetah more-so than the CCS on my Alien.

Very true, Ive owned bows that have taken this to the highest level but to be honest the simple slide and rod just works and its very simple to trouble shoot when or if there is a problem. Im all about saving money and if not having to pay for an upgrade that may or may not make much difference....................Ill stick with my slide!

bfisher
03-25-2012, 04:35 PM
Two good replies right there. I would imagine the CCS (roller guard) adds about $50 to the retail cost and if there is no real mechanical benefit why pay the extra money. There's just less to go wrong with a standard rod and slide and much more simple to fix if or when something does wear out. There's another added benefit of the rod/slide. The straight rods used today can usually be replaced with a doglegged rod and adjusted for minimal fletching clearance which can help minimize side torque on the limbs.

From my experience with Martin bows the rods are not pressed into the riser but slide into a drilled hole and are held in place with two set screws. Their CCS will not fit most risers as the riser has to have a slot machined into the riser. The slot is about 1/4" deep and 3/4" wide. Without this slot the roller guard cannot be adapted.

And really, as far as industry standards go there are not that many bows using roller guards compared to the ordinary rod/slide and most that do cost a lot more than most Martin bows with little or no perceptible difference in performance or accuracy. A better solution would be to design a system that eliminates any side torque imparted by a rod/slide or roller guard altogether. Of course Martin did design such a system with their Fury X/Nitrous X/Furious X cams; possibly the best cam systems ever designed, but not widely accepted by the bowhunting public.

cmwr
03-25-2012, 04:38 PM
Thats a good point. I agree they are solid and dependable. I just had to ask this question. I guess I figured their top line bows (pro series) would have these features at least. Honestly I don't see what defines the pro series from the gold series. prices are similar. So are all the features. It is as if all their bow are almost the same and they just drew straws to decide which one are pro series and which ones are gold. I am still pumped waiting for my silencer though!!! These are all just questions of curiosity not critisisms at all.

bfisher
03-25-2012, 05:04 PM
You're right about a lot of the bows having similar specs and such. I wish Martin would, for the sake of simplicity, reserve the use of the word "Pro" to their pro series bows. The use of the word Pro on the Gold series bows gets a bit confusing to say the least.

As for you asking questions? No criticism taken. You asked a valid question and one I hope we answered to your satisfaction and others' as well.

Matrix
03-25-2012, 05:32 PM
Bfisher you have me sold...... if you were selling something! LOL

bowgramp59
03-25-2012, 05:38 PM
i just converted 3 alien xs from css to slide & rod system, it moved the cables closer to the center, my blazers just clear . it eliminated all the cam lean & mad all 3 bows a lot smoother on the draw. i know someone is going to say the rollers create less friction than the slide & i agree , with the size of the rollers & where they are posisioned puts the cables out to far, if you look at the cables while the bow is being drawn you would think the cables were going to run off & if you draw the bow with your bare hand and grip it to tight they will roll off on the let down, i know it happened to me while trying to ajust my rest trip cord. have a good night & good shooting !

bfisher
03-25-2012, 07:32 PM
Glad to see you chime in Curtis. It's always good to hear personal experiences with such matters.

Phantonza
03-25-2012, 11:36 PM
I checked Bowhunting World maganize's article "Hot new bows 2012" and quite many of the bows seemed to have traditional rod/slide system.

I think all the models with rod/slide should have teflon slide as standard. Like this one:
http://www.shopatron.com/products/productdetail/part_number=BP50/189.0.1.1

It is an inexpensive part, but makes operation smoother especially when wet (I have not tested that particular slide, though. I have used full teflon slide in my older Martin).

Last year Martin introduced a different system (TRG) but that was later withdrawn because it had some drawbacks. Darton has used a very simple torque reducing solution: a curved rod that allows the slide to come close to the center in full draw. I have heard rumors of someone installing that to Martin bows. On the other hand, I think it has different thickness or something (built that way in purpose, perhaps) which makes it more difficult to install to other bows. I have also read that some people find the solution not very good, as the cables may obstruct your sight picture, as they move to centerline in full draw. I think also some other problems have been reported.

I don't know if it has actually been proven that a roller system is better than traditional rod/slide. I have the roller in my Hoyt CRX but I cannot easily see or feel it providing any advantages over the rod/slide.

You might want to check this thread too: http://martinarchery.com/mtechforum/showthread.php?23508-cable-slide

Phantonza
03-26-2012, 02:06 AM
The question wasn't exactly about torque reducing cable guards, but as I brought it up, I also give another link here:
http://www.archery-forum.com/archive/index.php?t-25966.html

James Park is a famous target shooter (and the author of "Mastering Compound Bows" book) and his arguments about preferring a straight rod instead of any torque reducing arrangements is quite interesting!

droppixel
03-26-2012, 04:42 AM
If one is worried about torque on the cables, etc - this new piece from Strother looks like it could have some promise. I wouldn't run out and get it just yet, but it seems like it could be a little more successful than the TRG.

http://youtu.be/Sbd4l_xvdPU

whoever shot the video needs to learn to turn their darn iPhone on it's side when shooting video.


There are also a few systems out there that have a kick in the rod with the slide that moves towards center on the draw and then back out when release, think it is called Tilt Tamer, but I might be wrong ...

Phantonza
03-26-2012, 05:38 AM
If one is worried about torque on the cables, etc - this new piece from Strother looks like it could have some promise. I wouldn't run out and get it just yet, but it seems like it could be a little more successful than the TRG.


Looks very much like the TRG.

Yes, there is a product called Tilt Tamer. I think this is very similar but a bit more elegant solution compared to that: http://www.arctec-products.com/cpr.php