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View Full Version : Firecat-45 to 60 or 55 to 70 lb?



frankensteel
12-16-2007, 12:03 PM
I want to shoot 60 lb- NO less and maybe 1-2 lb more. I had to drop down from 70 lb and am concerned about performance loss.
Bows supposedly are more efficient when shot maxed out although I've never seen any supporting data. IS there any data to support this?
My question is which will perform better- the 60 lb bow maxed out or the 70 lb turned down to 60?
My concern is I dont want to end up with a 60 lb bow that maxes out less than 60 for whatever reason.
Also can you get 1-2 lbs more from the 60 lb bow?
I know I'm splitting hairs but I'm trying to match the performance of my 70 lb bow which I can no longer shoot.
Thanks for your help in advance.

flytier17
12-16-2007, 02:01 PM
I am getting 63 out of a Slayer that peak is supposed to be 60. I have 4H limbs. Limbs ending in "H" will bottom higher than peak (usualy about 3 lbs.).Limbs ending in "M" will bottom @ peak, while limbs ending in "L" will bottom lower than peak (again, about 3 lbs.). Look at the limb charts, and see what letter your limbs will have. That should tell you.

Yes, it is more effecient to shoot a bow bottomed. I had the opportunity to adj. a buddies slayer to my specs. The bows are essentially the same. Same rest, my shafts, "X" system, his 06, mine 07, both had a tru-peep and a loop with 1 set of bow-jax silencers, etc...

His has a peak of 70(3), mine 60(3). I set his bow at 63lbs./29" (same as mine), and fired the same shaft out of both though a chrony. Mine was 6 fps faster!!!!! Obviously more effecient.

Also, a cam at its lowest draw setting will be less effecient than a smaller cam at a higher draw setting. eg. My slayer was accidently shipped with the wrong cams, limbs, and strings. It was set for "B" cams. While waiting for thew right one to be shipped, I setup the first one. @ 63/28 it was 233 fps. My new slayer with "C" cams @ 63/28 is 228.5 fps.

Hope this helps.

frankensteel
12-16-2007, 09:23 PM
Thanks a bunch-your info was extremely helpful.
I looked for the info regarding the L,M, and H limb markings on Martin's website but I couldn't find anything. I'm going to call Martins tech dept. tomorrow and see what they say.
Thanks again for the info.

bfisher
12-17-2007, 10:42 AM
Efficency does enter into it for sure, but not a whole lot. A few fps as flytier mentioned.

There's some thing else you can do. You don't have to buy either a 45-60 or a 55-70. You can order one with limbs that will peak out at 65# or if you get real fussy you can pick them so the bow peaks at whatever you want.

The bow cam chart section isn't working, so I'll just throw a "for instance" at you. Assume that a 45-60 has a limb with a 5H deflection number on it. If you want 65# then you'd pick limb #6H-----5# more. If you want it to peak at 63# then you could ask for the bow to be built with 6M limbs.

Hope you get what I mean here. It's really picking at straws worrying about 2# when you could just back off the limb bolts a half turn, but I'm just expalining that your options are almost endless.

I don't know just what limbs are on a production 45-60 so what I piked is just an example.

Does this help?

thehairlessone!
12-18-2007, 08:06 AM
I would just go with the 60 lb. limbs. They are probly going to max out at 61-62 lbs. anyway. That is what I shoot so I quit getting the 70 lb. limbs several years ago.

rick

dbd870
12-18-2007, 10:26 AM
I'm considering a new bow in 08 myself, I'm looking to stay in the same general area as you - somewhere between 58 and 62 lbs. I'm thinking it would likely be a MOAB, perhaps a firecat, perhaps I'll wait a year. In any case I've decided on going with a 60# bow. I see no reason to go with the heavier bow as there is no chance on ever using the top end of it (sigh, you can't rollback the clock); it sounds like that is true for you as well.

bfisher
12-18-2007, 07:11 PM
I'm considering a new bow in 08 myself, I'm looking to stay in the same general area as you - somewhere between 58 and 62 lbs. I'm thinking it would likely be a MOAB, perhaps a firecat, perhaps I'll wait a year. In any case I've decided on going with a 60# bow. I see no reason to go with the heavier bow as there is no chance on ever using the top end of it (sigh, you can't rollback the clock); it sounds like that is true for you as well.

Well, if I could roll back the clock I would never have shot anything over about 55# in the first place. For 3D I can get just as much speed shooting 53# as I used to get shooting upper 60's.

For hunting, although speed isn't near as much an issue, I can still achieve speeds around 260-275 shooting that same 53#. Yeh, so it's a light arrow, but deer aren't big game anyway. What do I care how deep into the ground the arrow goes after a pass-through.

dbd870
12-19-2007, 09:55 AM
I'm only getting high 230's with my current setup so 270's sound pretty good to me at this time (that's why I'm looking for an upgrade); or they could just let us use range finders! :D

bfisher
12-19-2007, 07:04 PM
I'm only getting high 230's with my current setup so 270's sound pretty good to me at this time (that's why I'm looking for an upgrade); or they could just let us use range finders! :D

Please understand something. If you are in any way chasing speed then you want a spee-bow. That leaves out a bow with the MPro cam if you're serious about it. The FieCat is the speed-bow for Martin this year. So figure that the easiest way to get speed is to pick a high IBO rated for to start with.

Second on the list is picking components (arrows) to take advantage of the bow's ability. Pick a set of arrows for 3D shooting and set the bow up for that. It'll work well for that and if you intend to hunt llater in the year then use the same setup or pick a heavier arrow (or whatever) and retune the bow to shoot them. Usually it's not too much tweaking to get ready for hunting---a couple hours at most.

Then you must know or learn how to tune a bow for speed. There are lots of little tricks to tweak a few fps out of a bow. One of the easiest is to don't think about a hunting setup. So many guys are caught up in crunching numbers to figure out kinetic energy. Forget it. Kinetic energy is just a number. If your intended quarry is whitetail deer then ANY modern bow of 50# or more shooting ANY properly spined arrow produces enough kinetic energy.

I am aware that most people who shoot are bowhunters, but put it in perspective. How many shots do you take in a year and how many of them are while hunting? I tune my bows for shooting. Hunting just happens to slip in between my other shooting seasons--- or should I say interfers with shooting seasons.

dbd870
12-20-2007, 10:08 AM
No doubt the firecat would be faster, but as we know if it's a problem to shoot after sitting out in the cold for 4 hours that's no good either. I'm not on a total quest for speed but I'm pretty slow compared to most today. You have brought up a point I have been kicking around in my head for a while now. I shoot 3D to become a better shot under hunting conditions when deer season comes around; yet obviously far more shooting is done on the course, and scoring decently (not winning) does matter some. Two different setups defeats my purpose. I guess in the end having a hunting bow is more important to me than having a pure competition bow. I agree on KE, it is not a big issue for me. I'm currently using 436gr arrows which is hurting me, I'm going to look into helping myself there as well; I have considered 2 different arrows, still may do that. Just trying to find a comfortable spot for me with speed, forgiveness etc. all thrown in there.

bfisher
12-20-2007, 07:42 PM
Then think of things this way. Assuming you can get very similar speed from two different bows, which would you choose? A 60# hard cam bow or a 70# easy-draw model?

I kind of look at the fact that no matter how easy the draw seems I would still have to roll the cam over. If I can get the same speed with 10# less I'm certainly going to give that particular bow a decent tryout.

This is where you come in. I'd suggest shooting both the MOAB and the FireCat for comparison. They are the same bow with different cams. You can use two different criteria. Set them both for the same weight and see what the speed difference really is. Or shoot them both set up to produce the same speed with a given arrow and compare the draw cycle. I think this last one is a fairer comparison. Anyway, it's for you to decide.

I know that I've gotten off the original topic a long ways, but it's just information I hope you find useful. I've been the full gamut with back, neck, and shoulder problems and the required surgeries so I made up my mind a long time ago. I only shoot about 53# these days and still get speeds that are decent. But a shoot hard cams and light arrows, meaning arrows around 315 grains for hunting. I'm just real picky about my shots.

dbd870
12-21-2007, 06:08 AM
Good advice on comparing the 2 bows; I will definitely use that method. TNX.