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View Full Version : paper tuning success but still have a question



cmwr
05-08-2012, 08:12 PM
I built a paper tune rack today and did my first paper tune. I started at 5-10 feet or so and when i was shooting bullet holes i moved to 10 yards and was still shooting good holes. I was reading how to do it out of an older Martin owners manual in the back section it told how to paper tune. Keep in mind I am left handed so the actions were reversed for me. I started with a right tear (fletchings going through to the right of POI). Here's what the owners manual says in a quote:
Right tear
(fletching tears to the right of point)
This tear may signal:

Note:If you are left handed do these steps in reverse.

Release
Arrow rest too far to the right
Move arrow rest to the left

Since I am LH I reversed this and moved my rest to the right but the more I moved it the worse it got. Moving my rest to the right gained me nothing. So I moved it back to original starting place and started moving it to the left and thats when I started gaining. I ended up a few clicks to the left of where I started. In the end i was shooting clean holes. I dialed in my sight at 10 yards. Then I moved to 20 and the same pin was hitting good. By this time I was getting a tad shaky so my 30 yard shots were not steady enough for me to base anything on.

Anyone know why my adjustments were the opposite of what the book said I should be doing?

justin
05-08-2012, 08:44 PM
Typo..... thats for spring buttons and moving them toward or away from the riser

cmwr
05-08-2012, 09:01 PM
That sounds about right considering the vintage of this manual (90s) Thanks.

bfisher
05-09-2012, 10:07 AM
Here's a question that might help answer yours. How does an arrow know it's being shot from a RH or LH bow? Also I like to point out that in Easton's Tuning Guide, next to last paragraph at the bottom of page 7 it states that release shooters SOMETIMES get an opposite reaction from what finger shooters do, so adjust accordingly.

As with so many things about these stupid bows nothing is written in stone. You adjust whatever needs adjusted in whatever direction gives the best results and just accept it. Commit it to memory for the future.

Spiker
05-09-2012, 12:53 PM
Here's a question that might help answer yours. How does an arrow know it's being shot from a RH or LH bow? Also I like to point out that in Easton's Tuning Guide, next to last paragraph at the bottom of page 7 it states that release shooters SOMETIMES get an opposite reaction from what finger shooters do, so adjust accordingly.

As with so many things about these stupid bows nothing is written in stone. You adjust whatever needs adjusted in whatever direction gives the best results and just accept it. Commit it to memory for the future.

+1.
Altho I do think the arrow acts a bit differently between left and right hand bows only because the pull from the cables is in opposite directions.
(unless your shooting an 'X' system :) )

Another thing is that with a riser that is cut past center and using a release - the 'archers paradox' is greatly reduced.

Still - as Barry says - adjust it however makes it shoot straight. That is the goal - it dont really matter how you get there.

wscywabbit
05-09-2012, 01:44 PM
Just like Barry and Spiker said, these things aren't written in stone and what works for one setup may not work with another. I generally figure that if I move one way with no results, its time to go the other way. If I'm still not getting the results I want, there's something else at work (fletching contact, drop away not dropping fast enough, etc). All you can do is try and go from there! :)

cmwr
05-09-2012, 08:55 PM
I had to redo it again today. I started out at 30 yds and the arrows were fishtailing terrible to the target. I was beginning to wonder what i had been drinking yesterday :rolleyes:. So I broke out the paper right and started over. I swear. i believe i did get it today. I had to move my rest even further inward. When I again was punching nice clean holes in the paper, I was able to use my 20 yd pin at 10,20, and 30 yds and it hit a near perfect vertical line so I feel good and the arrows at 30 yds are flying about as perfect as they can. But looking at the arrow on the riser shelf it is way off to the eye. If I was to take a ruler and measure riser to shaft at the rear and riser to shaft at the front I bet it would be off at least 1/8-1/4". Thats alot. I will try it again tomorrow to verify it is not me. But when i quit today I was grouping shafts touching at 30 and I don't think you can ask much more than that. But having the centershot so far out of eyeballs whack makes me think the arrows, although spined correctly, are too limber for some reason thus flexing more than they should. I bet if i stepped up a size i would have my centershot more eyeball appealing but I would be sacrificing speed for a heavier arrow. I am shooting 100 gr field tips and expandables so I really don't want to lower my tip weight. To look at it now the arrow is grossly crooked across the shelf. But hey it seems to shoot well.

Specs are 60 lbs, silencer, nitrous cams, 28" draw length, gold tip 5575 shafts cut to 29", 100 grain tips. I have been around and around with this dang bow on AT and here and although I am gaining I am sick of it already. My old bow never gave me this much trouble. I can't wait to get it back from the dipper. Man it is a shooter that gave me far less hassle than this thing I am shooting now. Grrrrr.

cmwr
05-10-2012, 07:58 PM
I went out this morning and I was correct. The arrows are still flying very nice to the target all the way to 40 yards. 40 is the max i can shoot in my yard and even then I am standing in the middle of the street lol. You look 5 times for cars then hurry up and shoot. I tweaked my sights horizontal gang adjustment a tad and I am hitting where I aim at all yardages.

Whats it mean when you have to have your centershot set so far out of whack to make it fly good? To look at it the arrow is terribly unsquare to the riser shelf but thats what it took to make this thing shoot like it should. It is a full 1/4" closer at the front than it is at the rear of the riser shelf. It's no wonder I have been having such a hard time. I would never have guessed by looking at this to ever set the centershot where it ended up being set at.

Spiker
05-11-2012, 10:21 AM
Yep - looks awfully strange when at rest but that is where it tunes.
If you measure from the bridge between the rest mount holes to the center of the arrow at rest - your probably around 13/16".?
Once it is shooting where your happy just record all the measurements then throw the tape measure in the drawer and have fun shooting.

justin
05-11-2012, 11:20 AM
It has alot to do with the cams, and a little to do with form and consistancy. You may find that if you start doing some research on form, and start working it into your practice routine you may have to retune, for arrow flight porposes. You dont have to though, as long as your getting good flight. I personally had to back my bow down to 59 pounds to get the consistancy i wanted, even though it feels really really easy to draw, it makes a world of difference in the size of my groups. Went from pie plate with a few fliers outside of that, at 50 yards to baseball sized groups. It was amazing.

bfisher
05-11-2012, 11:44 AM
I wish more people would figure this out on their own. More isn't always better in all cases.

justin
05-11-2012, 01:17 PM
I shot my ax at 63#, when i got my 70# az i maxed the limb bolts and checked it, and it came in at 65. No big deal. Dl was a little long, at the lowest setting, twisted up my string, shortened my stop a little more. Perfect dl now, but when i lighted up, alot of demons went away. now i can do some real fine tuning, but i dont think i have much more to do. Reset some pins, and i think i will be shooting lights out......

justin
05-11-2012, 01:59 PM
I think it had more to do with how much weight i am holding, more than anything. And possibly arow spline. But the main thing is its shooting well and im happy. Mostly that im happy.

cmwr
05-11-2012, 08:37 PM
I wish more people would figure this out on their own. More isn't always better in all cases.

Is this directed at me? If so I appologize for any stupid questions I am asking.

cmwr
05-11-2012, 08:39 PM
I think it had more to do with how much weight i am holding, more than anything. And possibly arow spline. But the main thing is its shooting well and im happy. Mostly that im happy.

My bow is still set at max where it was from the facyory. I think I will put my scale one it and see. Maybe I can turn it down 1/2 turn or something. This is a good idea.

bfisher
05-11-2012, 09:37 PM
Is this directed at me? If so I appologize for any stupid questions I am asking.

No, it was in referrence to Justin shooting 59# to get the consistency he was seeking. It was not meant toward anybody else in particular. Just a statement that so many people today think more i better. ie, the need to 70# bows to have MORE speed, MORE kinetic energy, and so forth. It's just the culture in the US these days.

cmwr, nothing personal and I'd never say you or anybody else asks stupid questions. How else would you learn? You have nothing to apologize for.

Barry

TEN RING
05-11-2012, 09:48 PM
archery is a very personall thing you can ask questions to see what works for one person but it may not work for you a lot of time it is trail and error

justin
05-12-2012, 07:08 AM
Right barry. My norm was 63 pounds, i started shooting at 70 ish though. Now im down to 59 pounds. And like barry said, you surely dont have to turn your bow down, but maybe you would be more accurate, maybe you could shoot more before getting tired. Its all up to you. It is really easy to back your limb bolts out two turns and try shooting a few groups. You can always turn them back in. I started shooting lower weight when i failed to draw on a doe, from sitting in a stand all day. That isnt going to happen to me ever again

cmwr
05-12-2012, 08:17 AM
No, it was in referrence to Justin shooting 59# to get the consistency he was seeking. It was not meant toward anybody else in particular. Just a statement that so many people today think more i better. ie, the need to 70# bows to have MORE speed, MORE kinetic energy, and so forth. It's just the culture in the US these days.

cmwr, nothing personal and I'd never say you or anybody else asks stupid questions. How else would you learn? You have nothing to apologize for.

Barry

I have gave more than my 2 cents over on AT on various threads in the past feeling just as you are stating. Back in the day I comfortably pulled 70 lbs. There is nothing wrong with me now. I mean physically I still can. But I prefer a lighter weight now cause i realize it gets the job done with much less effort. I thinK all these macho buffs need to grow up. This all trickles back to the I am gonna buy a 1000 dollar bow because everyone else is theory. It seems like nowadays no one wants to do their own thing anymore. We have become a society of "followers". Aggravating.:mad:

cmwr
05-12-2012, 08:20 AM
Right barry. My norm was 63 pounds, i started shooting at 70 ish though. Now im down to 59 pounds. And like barry said, you surely dont have to turn your bow down, but maybe you would be more accurate, maybe you could shoot more before getting tired. Its all up to you. It is really easy to back your limb bolts out two turns and try shooting a few groups. You can always turn them back in. I started shooting lower weight when i failed to draw on a doe, from sitting in a stand all day. That isnt going to happen to me ever again

I turned my bow down 1 turn last night and it now pulls 58 lbs. I actually never felt 60 was very heavy especially with this smooth a drawing bow. I never have gotten tired with this new one yet. But still maybe 2 less lbs will make it shoot that much better. I will find out.