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bfisher
06-14-2012, 08:00 PM
Look up this thread on AT. I've known about this for some time now--about 6 weeks. Obviouly I kept my mouth shut as I was supposed to. I know a little more than what was posted on AT, but again, am not in a position to divulge the information.

The point of this thread is to get some suggestions to improve their line of bows and quality. Hopefully somebody at Martin will read and take into account what their customers would like to see in the way of improvements. Bear in mind that only constructive ideas (not gripes) will be accepted and no bashing, please. I would like to start:

More attention to detail concerning cams and modules needs to be implemented. All areas such as string/cable grooves should be chamfered or rounded to eliminate abrading of string/cable servings. This bit of machining would save the company money replacing strings/cables from excessive wear and make customers very happy.

Hutch~n~Son Archery
06-14-2012, 08:05 PM
Here is the link Guys http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1777608&highlight=Martin+Archery+2013


Hutch:cool:

Speedykills
06-14-2012, 08:19 PM
This might seem petty but i would like to see all the little stickers on the bows right side up,on my bow example ccs sticker is upside down,roto cup is off too.
Ive seen a firehawk for sale in AT classifieds it has the limb with fire hawk on top and martin limb on bottom,my bow is opposite.More attention to detail especially for a bow that cost over $500.00 at the time.......ok other than that im pretty satisified.

Durandal
06-14-2012, 08:23 PM
I am a very happy owner of a Scepter V pro, the bow shoots great, quiet, shock free right out of the box.

My only negative point is that the cable rod is a bit in the way when I draw the bow. The reason being that I shoot fingers. I have enough experience doing so that adding a bit of index to my draw while having started the draw adds no tortion to the string but I can see less experienced finger shooters having this issue. Not sure how this would affect the whole balance of the mechanics but having the rod come out an inch higher or 2 would give finger shooters a comfortable clearance.

For me it's a minor issue that simply changes my draw style from what it used to be on my cougar but considering that finger shooters tend to look for a longer ATA on their bows, the Scepter V is a likely choice for them.

This certainly wouldn't hinder a trigger release set up.

Also but this is minor is the finish I chose, black carbon, seems to chip easy. Takes nothing out of the strenght and accuracy of this platform and I'm not big on looks but I've seen others mention this on the forum so I thouhgt I'd bring it up. Mine had 2 small chips on the upper right side of the riser when I took it out of the box.

I've tried many models from different manufacturers over the years and this is by far the smoothest, most accurate and comfortable bow I've had the pleasure of using.

Cheers!

bob cooly
06-14-2012, 09:06 PM
Obviously every succesful company works on inproving their QC. My personal opinion is that Martin needs to tone down on some of the not-so-innovative gizmos such as last years TRG?SOS. And keep producing a working mans/womans bow that works like it's supposed to and does not break the bank. It's tough in the competitive business culture we have created where every one needs the newest flamethrower. And a two year old bow is dead. Archery is too much fun to try and figure out the next step which will probably be rocket propelled arrows that break the speed of sound. Too many models compound any issues.

daiwateampenn
06-15-2012, 01:36 AM
i will suggest that Martin should have a section in the webpages for detail information such as the types of limbs (with measurement of inch, width and flexi.. etc. etc.), and cams. It very hard to find any information about the Martin and Rytera limbs. (Sweating search online).

The Martin Online Store, especially for the international buyer, many parts of the bow is not listed for sale.
We international buyer, would prefer to search online to get the item, where the nearest local pro shop is 1000 miles away.

Or maybe a idea for Aftermarket. E.g Hybrix Cam, same cam, with different color spec, so customer can buy to match their color ascend for the bow. E.g Nitrous Cam, with drilled holes for weight reduction, and metallic or pearl color paint. Its more like modification of car. where we put some cosmetic on the bow. hahaha just a suggestion

Martin and Rytera bow is definately have the appealing and good looking bow.

Hutch~n~Son Archery
06-15-2012, 04:16 AM
Here is a link where Martin shows a poll that they are asking questions about their line up. What would excite you the most from Martin Archery for the 2013 bow line? (https://www.facebook.com/questions/10150886756657857/)




Hutch:cool:

Thermodude
06-15-2012, 04:23 AM
The attention to detail suggestion is a big one! Any part of the bow that comes into contact with the string/cables. Ive said this before, as petty as it may be Id like to see the quick disconnect thing go away! Put ah couple bushings in the riser and call it good!

bfisher
06-15-2012, 06:00 AM
The attention to detail suggestion is a big one! Any part of the bow that comes into contact with the string/cables. Ive said this before, as petty as it may be Id like to see the quick disconnect thing go away! Put ah couple bushings in the riser and call it good!

I do have to agree with this. Steel bushings are still the best option, IMO.

dugout
06-15-2012, 08:15 AM
There is a lot that has nothing directly to do with the product.

Corporate Branding; why spin off a new brand while struggling to keep the parent brand relevant? Rytera? It just screams why! If there was a product group that needed its own identity it is the traditional bows with the obvious difference in customer base. What does a second brand of Compound Bows bring to the table besides splintering available R&D, Support, and promotional resources?

The product groupings and model maze does nothing but confuse the potential customer base. Names mean things. The word "pro" needs to be reserved for the pro line. "Silencer Pro" in the Gold Line makes no sense. When a model is named it needs to carry that name through its life and be dropped when the particular line of bows is dropped. The model name "Jaguar" has been applied to multiple compound and traditional bows, coming in and out of the product line over the years. It's like Ford introducing a pickup truck and calling it a "Mustang". Too much energy goes into branding to just purposely dilute it.

As a company grows and matures it must adapt to current market conditions. A company cannot "do it the way we have always done it" and maintain, or gain, market share. Change is good and change is necessary but change needs to be balanced, progressive, and follow consistent logical goals. Adaptive change is possible while maintaining the original Martin Company identity. It was product change and innovation which made what Martin is today and those same principals judiciously applied to its marketing plan will ensure Martin’s future.

I will admit to being overly sensitive to marketing but I've spent the better part of thirty years successfully marketing recreational products. It's a puzzle which starts with limited resources and ends with maximization of product sales expectations.

droppixel
06-15-2012, 08:33 AM
While I love the living snot out of my Bengal, like Barry has mentioned, chamfered edges on the module would most likely greatly help the cable wear that some are seeing. Going back to my Cheetah and the old style module or even the modules that comes on the Nitro/Hybrix - there is a flat where the cable is to come to rest, with the Fury mod, it just drops off, so there is no way to know what the proper rotation is or where the cable should come to rest. A little more clarity there would be killer.

I think they will continue to push the bar as far as riser design goes, as we have seen in the Bengal/Onza/XT/Nemesis to name a few over the past years and that is exciting. I think having more variance in the specs would greatly help. Right now there are a good number of bows in the 30-32" ATA range, which is fine with me, that is what I shoot, but I know there are more people out there that like longer bows. The Onza/Scepter/Pantera offer that, but I would bet 1 more in between Pantera and Scepter would probably make some folks happy.

The web presence lately on Facebook has been awesome, I think continuing to reach out through social media will continue to bring good things to Martin. I think some YouTube videos on process/manufacturing or tips, etc would be great.

I feel like they have really pushed the bar recently with what they can do and as long as they continue to prove it, things I think will take off. Regardless I'm a Martin/Rytera guy for life. Can pretty much guarantee I'll never own any other brand of bow ... even if it were given to me or I happen to win one in some crazy contest, I'd look to move it for a Martin.

I can't really comment on the traditional world as I have no experience with them, but plan to in the future.

timbow
06-15-2012, 02:56 PM
I like the vem grip its really comfterble. I think they should keep that instead of the slim hard grip. The idler wheel should have a nice smooth edge. And keep the vem riser shelf. Oh ya and specs could definitly be more precisce. And cam rotation should be specified. Other than that i love me 2010 cheetah.

ftshooter
06-16-2012, 11:52 AM
I posted over at the A.T. Link

dzsmith
06-16-2012, 09:47 PM
There is a lot that has nothing directly to do with the product.

Corporate Branding; why spin off a new brand while struggling to keep the parent brand relevant? Rytera? It just screams why! If there was a product group that needed its own identity it is the traditional bows with the obvious difference in customer base. What does a second brand of Compound Bows bring to the table besides splintering available R&D, Support, and promotional resources?

The product groupings and model maze does nothing but confuse the potential customer base. Names mean things. The word "pro" needs to be reserved for the pro line. "Silencer Pro" in the Gold Line makes no sense. When a model is named it needs to carry that name through its life and be dropped when the particular line of bows is dropped. The model name "Jaguar" has been applied to multiple compound and traditional bows, coming in and out of the product line over the years. It's like Ford introducing a pickup truck and calling it a "Mustang". Too much energy goes into branding to just purposely dilute it.

As a company grows and matures it must adapt to current market conditions. A company cannot "do it the way we have always done it" and maintain, or gain, market share. Change is good and change is necessary but change needs to be balanced, progressive, and follow consistent logical goals. Adaptive change is possible while maintaining the original Martin Company identity. It was product change and innovation which made what Martin is today and those same principals judiciously applied to its marketing plan will ensure Martin’s future.

I will admit to being overly sensitive to marketing but I've spent the better part of thirty years successfully marketing recreational products. It's a puzzle which starts with limited resources and ends with maximization of product sales expectations.

amen brother. rytera bows, the exact same bow with some crazy looking riser, with the motto light years ahead as if the technology is different from a regular martin bow. seems like they would loose money on this. i would like to see some more speed bows, the crossfire is a dual cammed very short bow at 30 inches, it even has speed nocks and the specs claim 320 fps. something is not right about that. other than that no issues

Phantonza
06-19-2012, 07:58 AM
More attention to detail concerning cams and modules needs to be implemented. All areas such as string/cable grooves should be chamfered or rounded to eliminate abrading of string/cable servings. This bit of machining would save the company money replacing strings/cables from excessive wear and make customers very happy.


EXACTLY! Nothing to add. I am very happy with my Onza 3 after I repaired the modules of it myself, but I feel this is something the factory should have already done.

I traded my Hoyt CRX 32 for the Onza 3 and to me, that was the right choice.

Don B
06-19-2012, 08:15 AM
Please bring back a long ata bow. I know we that shoot fingers are all but gone, but we are still here and Martins last best finger bow was the Shadowcat.
Just like the old saying goes, "build it and they will come" Build them and they will sell.
It was 2 Shadowcats that won the Ca. State Broadhead Chaampionshipds in the non-sight fingers classes.
Don.

Tosi
06-19-2012, 09:13 AM
I would think that and ATA between Pantera and Scepter would probably make some folks very happy. Attention to detail! My 2011 ONZA dip is terrible, fading and or flaking off on the bottom limb. Saying that I'm still a Martin man...

bowgramp59
06-19-2012, 05:53 PM
barry is exactly right, more attention to detale where the moduals are concerned , this is J M O , it appears to me that 2 or more machine shops are used or several machines in 1 shop, some get it right & some don't. i 've replaced or modified all the mods on all my martin rytera bows with the help from customer service {joel } to the point where i don't have any serving wear at all.more quality control in this area would save the co. lots of money & less down time for the customers. i'm not griping i love all my rytera bows,

Jason
06-22-2012, 05:30 PM
I am going to say some things have already been said. Why would I do that? Because I think the more times a different person says it the more weight it will carry as being something important to address with 2013. This is all about Quality Control. If you use a golf scale of QC within the 2011 line (I use that line because of a personal involvement in that year).

If you notice though many have constructive things to say where Martin needs improvement they many times start off with something they like good about the bows first. This is not to soften the blow of the negative comments following that or keep from sounding mean or harsh about it. Its because they really to have an awesome shooting bow to say something nice about. My 2011 Firecat 400 is the fastest, hardest hitting, smoothest, and most accurate bow I have ever owned. I love this bows performance. That is why so many start off with something good to say.

But....

Quality Control has let much more to be desired. Finish problems right out of the box brand new especially the carbon black that chips and loses finish so easy. Seems like some sort of protective coat on that would help a lot but I know you need to keep the glare down. Still have a lot of glare when most of your riser is showing aluminum from stick and limb scratches though. A little pro and con and a solution to that issue. Also the higher end bows are being equipped with cost cutting parts. The carbon rod for my cable slide has broken twice with less than 200 shots. Just splinters out and breaks. I know they stay quiet but Id rather have a stronger material. Again someone mentioned the stickers are being placed different and without care. My adhesive pad to stop the module pin that rotates into the cam limb to stop for the proper let off percentage was halfway in the cam placed on with no care at all. My bow also had a cam alignment problem right out of the box. It would have taken someone 10 times or less of pulling the bow back to see the imprint it was leaving on the cable. Each imprint contributes to damage. I know someone can not pull back dozens of bows a day but surely there is an assistance machine that is ergonomically fit to accomplish this. I kept the inspection tags for a long time. A sticker of the name or initials of the person that inspected my bow. I was instantly aggravated because I know Martin is better than that and I expected more from them.

I took a deep breath and called Martin...

That is when the magic happens. Martin's never failing insurance plan.. Their people. Joel and another guy (forgive me other guy I do not remember your name right now) helped me with excellent solutions that benefited my situation at every angle. I hated having these unnecessary issues that should have never left the factory but knowing I had an easy no hassle help with the problem was worth while to associate with the martin name. Its like calling one of my good buddies rather than an a over structured business with return and repair rules, and fine print.

Other little things like my thin thermal grip leather is pulling out of place which is pulling the glued insert over the leather material in the side of the riser because they over lap. Again though its all being taken care of.

I can not say Quality Control and process discipline enough. Offer the employees an incentive for finding and identifying bows for quality problems and watch the results of quality checks raise. I know if I was getting a gift card or pre pay or an employee of the month visa I would help find these problems a little better. Otherwise people become robots in assembly line type work.. The final person gets it and puts on their inspection stickers and off it goes.

Look forward already for 2013 improvements. The fact the company takes the time to connect with customers to find out their opinions and needs shows the right direction.

jnordwell
06-22-2012, 06:18 PM
I made a comment over on archerytalk. but I just thought of a new one. Put serial numbers on the riser for better tracking of said bow. I bought a martin Shadowcat 2011 is what I thought I was buying turned into a 2010 riser 2011 limbs and 2010 cams that the shop slapped together to "just sell a bow" and I got the mixed batch. Sure I have been taken care of by martin but it shouldn't have happened in the frist place. I gave up a Hoyt to buy the martin. I think if the bows had numbers on them it might make things easier to track and maybe get those bad shops to stop mix and matching just to sell bows.

themiddleman
06-22-2012, 06:56 PM
I know the title to this thread is Martin archery in 2013 and what they can do to better improve their product. Everybody's going on and on about quality issues with their 2009, 2010 and 2011 bows. Those years were a low point for Martin archery and they certainly had more than their share of quality control issues, but, what about the 2012 bows? Martin has really stepped up to the plate this year. I have a wall full of Martin and Rytera bows in my bow shop and I would defy anybody to find any flaws on any of them. Every bow that has come in to my shop has been looked over, they all passed the test and then some. My customers are very happy with their purchases as well. As with any product there's always room for improvement but so far, 2012 is been a great year for Martin archery and I am proud to be a dealer for them.
Pat Finney
Prairie Archery

Jason
06-22-2012, 10:22 PM
I know the title to this thread is Martin archery in 2013 and what they can do to better improve their product. Everybody's going on and on about quality issues with their 2009, 2010 and 2011 bows. Those years were a low point for Martin archery and they certainly had more than their share of quality control issues, but, what about the 2012 bows? Martin has really stepped up to the plate this year. I have a wall full of Martin and Rytera bows in my bow shop and I would defy anybody to find any flaws on any of them. Every bow that has come in to my shop has been looked over, they all passed the test and then some. My customers are very happy with their purchases as well. As with any product there's always room for improvement but so far, 2012 is been a great year for Martin archery and I am proud to be a dealer for them.
Pat Finney
Prairie Archery

Thats great to hear.. I had no experience to speak for 2012 so that is really good to hear someone say. Martin has my 2011 bow fixing it up right now.. You make me wish they would just replace it with a 2012 bow but my firecat 400 fixed up just right will be pretty sweet though. I never mean any harm in my comments. I am a Martin Guy through and through. Its just the nature of the thread.

bfisher
06-23-2012, 10:05 AM
Good post. And I'd like to remind guys that the purpose of this thread is not to list or complain about past problems, but what actions might be taken to improve them. I'm quite sure the company (especially Joel) is aware of past problems. Also, not looking for mass changes to the bows. Just what can be done to improve the overall quality (machining, finish, etc).

So far as I know they have been doing extensive testing the last few months trying to find out why the bows are noisy compared with other lines. The last I heard they may be making some prototypes with one piece risers although this has not shown to be a problem. They believe some of the noise is from the limbs so we may be looking at higher quality limbs in the future. As this issue is being addressed there is no reason to list it. 2013 might be a very good year.

wscywabbit
06-23-2012, 10:24 AM
Middleman makes some good points, and I'd venture to say that aside from the TRG/SOS, 2011 was a great year for Martin, and the beginning of their turn around in luck and design. With 2012 building on that success, Martin's future once again looks bright.

For 2013 I'd like to see bow that my daughter can hunt with (or rather would want to hunt with). I think the Exile would be a great bow for a 14/15 year old girl, especially with the new Fury cam. But when I take her to look at bows, she likes the ones built for women all dressed up for women. I can't say as I blame her, and it seems that everyone else has at least one bow in their arsenal aimed at that genre.

Also, even though I know there are those that believe Martin should keep with tried and true (rod and slide), I think that Martin was onto something with the TRG. But it was poorly implemented. Remember, Martin has always been on the forefront of innovation, and I think it's not only part of their history but in their genes!

Aside from the X cam shoot through system, cam lean hasn't been successfully dealt with. I like the bent rods that some on here have implemented on their own, and hope that Martin takes note. I myself will probably get a rod, bend it and pair it with my Saunders hyper-glide sometime in the near future... I think that if Martin implemented a similar setup it would be a successful venture.

Otherwise, I believe Martin should just keep on keeping on. 2011 and 2012 have been great years with new riser designs, new cam systems, new ideas and great bows. Keep 'em coming Martin! Good job!

rnfrazier
07-13-2012, 06:14 PM
I would like to see something in the 35-36" ATA range. I have owned probably 30 bows over the past 3 years and over half of them were Martin. My next bow will be a Martin and any bow after that will be. Nothing shoots like a Martin. Yes the dip could be better and a few other things, but then again the looks don't make it shoot better.

Don B
07-14-2012, 09:05 AM
Build us finger shooters a bow with a 46" ATA, then Martin could blow Hoyt out of the water with an awsome finger bow.
Don.

Hutch~n~Son Archery
07-14-2012, 09:30 AM
Faster bows for the shorter draw length persons. More bows for the women and youth to keep the sport growing.



Hutch:cool:

dmw
07-16-2012, 05:26 PM
I hope the sales reps. show up more than once or twice a year and are more than order takers .

bfisher
07-16-2012, 07:29 PM
I hope the sales reps. show up more than once or twice a year and are more than order takers .

What area of the country are you in and who is your sales rep?

daiwateampenn
07-16-2012, 10:21 PM
Faster bows for the shorter draw length persons. More bows for the women and youth to keep the sport growing.



Hutch:cool:


i will second this, coz my draw length is short too.... hehehehe:o

DeanRM
07-17-2012, 09:46 AM
I have a half dozen recent Martin/Rytera bows, and probably 30 Martin/Howatt recurve/longbows. I have probably set-up a couple of dozen Martin/Rytera bows for friends.

Here are my suggestions to Martin, if they are interested:

1. Build a couple of versions of ILF risers and a range of limbs. Maybe a wood riser (17") and an aluminum riser (19"). Hoyt Excel and Tradtech risers would be a good examples of these.

2. Supply your bows with strings/cables that do not need to be replaced as soon as you buy the bow. The serving in the cam area should not be wearing out after a hundred shots. If this is the case, redesign the cam, finish the cam differently, or supply strings/cables with serving that can withstand the wear.

3. Supply your customers with more tuning information. A lot of shooters like to tune their bows to obtain the best performance. Give them as much information as you can. Dealers cannot be expected to spend hours tweaking customers bows.

4. Produce a riser that can handle 80-90# draw weights for heavy animals, ie: Cape Buffalo, etc. I put a set of Barnesdale 80# limbs on an Alien-X and the riser was bending so bad that the string derailed off the cam. Ended up having to buy a Mathews Monster Safari (Mathews...yuk!!!) to get an 87# bow.

5. Multiple sight mounting holes is a great idea that should be on all bows!

6. In general, your bows shoot good, maybe a little louder than some, and a little more vibration. The draw cycle on the Hybrix cams is excellent!

Hope you folks continue to produce great archery products for years to come!

Thanks!
Dean

bfisher
07-17-2012, 01:21 PM
Dean,

With all due respect I'd like to address some of your suggestions:

1. I won't comment on the traditional line as I have been away from it for decades.

2. Martin is putting some pretty good strings on their bows these days and the serving is decent, too. The strings have very little creep and in most cases just a hint of peep rotation so they are far above most of the competition in this respect. The reason for premature serving wear is being caused by sharp edges in the cam and module grooves. At least that has been what I've found. So this part I do have to agree with. I don't think it would be so hard to change the machining procedure to alleviate this problem. I know that compared with the Cat/Nitro/Hybrix cams the Nitrous cams were machined with nice round edges in and around the string grooves and exhibited none of the wear being seen today.

I have started taking a rattail file to mine and it seems to be working out well. Something that the average shooter doesn't know about nor should have to be messing with.

3. People these days are more educated about tuning bows and there is already tons of information available for people to do their own tuning. I'm not talking about initial setups. I think we can expect dealer to mount accessories and set them up to basic parameters. After that it's up to the owner to shoot and tune their equipment and if they don't know how or refuse to take the time to do so then they can go back to the dealer and pay to have it done. Dealers should not be expected to TUNE equipment without compensation.

4. With these days of long risers and parallel limbs making risers for 80# or heavier bows would call for a pretty heavy piece of aluminum and the end result would have to be pretty beefy, too. I don't think the market is large enough to justify the expense. Suppose, for example, Martin produces and sells 30,000 bow per year (It's probably more). How many people really are going to order bows above 80#? Maybe a hundred or so? Just doesn't make much business sense to design the machining and go through the hassle when the present risers will handle what 99.9# of the shooters want and need. I think before going this route I'd try to find out just how many Safaris Mathews sells and then decide if this small market is worth sharing.

I'm more in agreement with those who would like to see some decent youth and lady's bow. Let's call it the smaller framed shooters as there are shorter men, too. This would probably be a more lucrative market in the long run.

5. Multiple sight mounting holes would be a plus. They have them on the Scepter V. All it would call for is slightly different riser machining--and checking who has the patent on it right now. You know how sue happy these companies are?

6. From what I understand Martin has been and is continuing to address the noise and vibration issue. I've been told they have been doing tests on the
3 pc risers and checking out the limbs. It's become a priority for 2013. Don't be surprised to see better quality limbs on future bows.

One thing I'd like to see is for a company (Martin) grab the bull by the horns and abandon the specs used for IBO speed ratings. The 30", 70#, 350gr arrow nonsense is just that--nonsense. The majority of shooters are closer to 28-28.5" draw length and more and more are starting to find their way down from 70# to 60# draw weights. But do the speed testing at 28" and 60#, and with 5gr/lb arrow and 6gr/lb. And do so by shooting and not computing. Physically measure the draw lengh and draw weight for accuracy and post figures based on that. And no fudging. Maybe do like Bowtech used to do and supply a birth certificate with each bow. and if a bow doesn't make it's projected figures it doesn't leave the factory.

Hope my views haven't offended you or discourage you fom posting. Your opinions are as valid as mine andho knows, Martin just might respond with some good ideas for next year.

WildWilt15
07-17-2012, 01:36 PM
Dean,

With all due respect I'd like to address some of your suggestions:

1. I won't comment on the traditional line as I have been away from it for decades.

2. Martin is putting some pretty good strings on their bows these days and the serving is decent, too. The strings have very little creep and in most cases just a hint of peep rotation so they are far above most of the competition in this respect. The reason for premature serving wear is being caused by sharp edges in the cam and module grooves. At least that has been what I've found. So this part I do have to agree with. I don't think it would be so hard to change the machining procedure to alleviate this problem. I know that compared with the Cat/Nitro/Hybrix cams the Nitrous cams were machined with nice round edges in and around the string grooves and exhibited none of the wear being seen today.

I have started taking a rattail file to mine and it seems to be working out well. Something that the average shooter doesn't know about nor should have to be messing with.

3. People these days are more educated about tuning bows and there is already tons of information available for people to do their own tuning. I'm not talking about initial setups. I think we can expect dealer to mount accessories and set them up to basic parameters. After that it's up to the owner to shoot and tune their equipment and if they don't know how or refuse to take the time to do so then they can go back to the dealer and pay to have it done. Dealers should not be expected to TUNE equipment without compensation.

4. With these days of long risers and parallel limbs making risers for 80# or heavier bows would call for a pretty heavy piece of aluminum and the end result would have to be pretty beefy, too. I don't think the market is large enough to justify the expense. Suppose, for example, Martin produces and sells 30,000 bow per year (It's probably more). How many people really are going to order bows above 80#? Maybe a hundred or so? Just doesn't make much business sense to design the machining and go through the hassle when the present risers will handle what 99.9# of the shooters want and need. I think before going this route I'd try to find out just how many Safaris Mathews sells and then decide if this small market is worth sharing.

I'm more in agreement with those who would like to see some decent youth and lady's bow. Let's call it the smaller framed shooters as there are shorter men, too. This would probably be a more lucrative market in the long run.

5. Multiple sight mounting holes would be a plus. They have them on the Scepter V. All it would call for is slightly different riser machining--and checking who has the patent on it right now. You know how sue happy these companies are?

6. From what I understand Martin has been and is continuing to address the noise and vibration issue. I've been told they have been doing tests on the
3 pc risers and checking out the limbs. It's become a priority for 2013. Don't be surprised to see better quality limbs on future bows.

One thing I'd like to see is for a company (Martin) grab the bull by the horns and abandon the specs used for IBO speed ratings. The 30", 70#, 350gr arrow nonsense is just that--nonsense. The majority of shooters are closer to 28-28.5" draw length and more and more are starting to find their way down from 70# to 60# draw weights. But do the speed testing at 28" and 60#, and with 5gr/lb arrow and 6gr/lb. And do so by shooting and not computing. Physically measure the draw lengh and draw weight for accuracy and post figures based on that. And no fudging. Maybe do like Bowtech used to do and supply a birth certificate with each bow. and if a bow doesn't make it's projected figures it doesn't leave the factory.

Hope my views haven't offended you or discourage you fom posting. Your opinions are as valid as mine andho knows, Martin just might respond with some good ideas for next year.

I agree with everything your saying but the strings issue. The strings i have on my onza are great but my saber takedown string have serving issues straight from the factory 50 shots in the servings on both ends unraveled my buddy who bought the same bow had the same issues he bought a hammerhead string and i reserved it myself both of which we should not have had to do right away with a new bow i think they need to change the serving material coming with the dacron strings on the takedowns (not sure what comes with a true wood bow) But your spot on B. Besides the strings issue which im pretty sure is what dean was talking about.

NuttyNative
07-18-2012, 10:30 AM
I would like to see Martin get rid of the exposed limb bolts. I think it makes them look cheap and weak just sticking through the riser an inch or so. They could go back to the 09 style or use the Rytera's as an example. Like alot of others have said, quality control, on things like chipped finishes, sharpie fixes on cams & idlers, burrs on cams & mods just to name a few. Loose the quick disconnect mounts, not as quick as you'd think. I also believe that is a spot for noise & vibration to creep in.
This has nothing to do with improving the product, but I would also like to see them include at least a decal with a new bow. Other manufacturers include a hat and decal to further advertise, acknowledge their customers, and kinda say thank you.

Others have suggested a youth or ladies bow. With that new Fury X cam I think they have that now with the right limb choice. My wifes has 55-70lb limbs and is set at 39lbs and is so smooth and easy to shoot. I can only imagine what a set of 35-50 or 40-55 limbs would be like with that cam. Maybe some competetive youth/ladies color/camo options and patterns?

DeanRM
07-18-2012, 11:14 AM
bfisher,

Thanks for sharing your views on the topics that I listed! I guess that I cannot comment on any of the 2012 bows, as I do not own any of them, but I own 4 Aliens, and have set up another half dozen, and the serving that attaches to the inner peg on the cam on ALL the cables are seperating. Also, if you don't debur the mods, it wears the serving. Your typical consumer is probably not going to remove their mods and start deburring them. Most would probably make more of a mess of the stiuation. Martin should have changed the design or finishing of the mods before they were sold to the consumer. Having to spend another $100 on string/cables after you buy a new bow seems rediculious! That's like buying a brand new car and having to replace the tires after the first 100 miles because they suck so bad!

Elite Archery has excellent tuning info on their web page, Martin could easily do the same. Keep it all in one place, and accurate! I can't tell you how many "Internet Experts" there are out there! Martin should know thier products better than anyone!!!

I understand about the economics of the heavy draw weight bows, it would just be great to be able to use a Martin bow. Maybe it wouldn't be that expensive if they were built by request only?

I think the Exile is their lady/youth bow. They do have some overlap in their models that is not that obvious why they exist, ie: Exile vs. Exile Pro???

Thanks again for sharing your views on these topics, it helps hearing other peoples perspectives!
Dean

bfisher
07-18-2012, 12:55 PM
Wilt,
I think I remember reading about loose serving on the traditional bows. They might have been yours. I do have to apologize in that I deal mainly with the compound bows and sometimes forget about the traditional line. I certainly won't dispute your findings. You've experienced it and I have not.

Nutty,
I see your point about the limb bolts showing, but I kind of like it. It does give us a view of the bolt when doing maintenance chores and backing the limb bolts out. With almost all other bows the bolts go into a blind pocket so you really have no idea of how much bolt is left as you back them off.
The subject of the quick disconnects comes up every once in a while. Don't take this to the bank, but from what I've been told don't be surprised to see them go away and be replaced with pressed-in steel bushings.

At least we're all on the same page in one respect. We're making suggestions from the consumers point of view on how to improve the line of bows. Not change them drastically every year, but improve the overall quality. I'm sure we would all like to see this company not only survive, but progress and broaden their presence in the archery market and gain more respect.

NuttyNative
07-18-2012, 02:55 PM
Barry, I see your logic on the limb bolts, but honestly they shouldn't back off. The blind pockets offer threads all the way down and I personally like the sleek looks, just looks cleaner and stronger to me.

Not stirrin the pot, just picture proof on attention to detail or lack thereof. Pulled my new 2011 Ridge Hunter out of the bag a few minutes ago & gave it a look see. Had a few spots in the dip, nothing loose or missing, just look like small water spots that are very small, no issue. Changed out the draw mod & went to set the draw stop and something looked funny. The draw stop rubber pad was mounted to the wrong side of the limb. No biggie, BUT something that should have never happened OR been caught in the 2nd inspection.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh268/Nuttynative/RidgeHunter004.jpg
You get enough of these small details wrong and the snowball effect can take over & it's fuel for the bashers. I have heard more than one dealer complain about that from Martin.

One more, this may be a personal thing. I understand the logic & pride behind the gold & copper coins that are set inside the risers. From a hunters perspective I don't want anything shiny that can cast a reflective twinkle while hunting. Maybe they could offer a green anodized or dipped one as an option. I cover mine with sight window fleece. A quarter is the perfect template for that.

kylecurtis04
07-20-2012, 12:21 AM
Attachment 1397548

WALLA WALLA – Recently, Martin Archery hired Jason Erdmann as National Sales Director. Erdmann,
a Wenatchee native, is an accomplished archer and brings strong leadership experience from his past positions.

After completing his undergraduate degree, Erdmann owned his own very successful archery shop, J & J Archery,
for four years in Wenatchee, WA. Erdmann was able to put in the first Techno Hunt in Washington, while setting
up national competitions and local archery shoots. Since this time, he stayed in the outdoor business by running
and operating Wild Focus Productions. Some of the articles, TV shows, and videos he’s written and produced can
be viewed at Wildfocus.biz and on the Outdoor Channel.

Most recently, Erdmann has held several senior administrative positions in private educational systems in Southern
California. Before going into education Erdmann was a Washington State Wrestling Champion and college athlete
until a shoulder injury ended his wrestling career.

In addition to an insider’s understanding of archery retailing, Erdmann’s sales and business development experience
has provided him with a strong understanding of territory development; sales management; problem solving; as well as
account management and customer service. He has been recognized throughout his career for his ability to lead and
motivate individuals to accomplish a common goal.

Gail Martin the founder of Martin Archery said: “We are delighted to welcome Jason and his family to Walla Walla. His
enthusiasm for archery and knowledge of the retail environment will be of great value in rounding out our management team.”

Jason and his wife, Susan, are in the process of moving with their two children from Southern California. They will all be
positive additions to the Walla Walla community.

Martin Archery provides valuable jobs and out-of-state revenue to the local Walla Walla economy. Additional information
on the company and Martin Compound and Traditional Bows can be found at MartinArchery.com

# # #

For more information: Ken Melhus, Martin Communications Director (800) 540-8902
MartinArchery.com
Wildfocus.biz

dmw
07-21-2012, 09:43 AM
What area of the country are you in and who is your sales rep?

Morgantown WV

skidge
07-21-2012, 11:27 AM
bfisher, I agree with pretty much everything you have said except for quality strings. they are not the correct length, not even color count, and served terribly. I have 1-2011 onza 1-2012 cougar 2cam, 1-2012 onza, and 1-2012 exile for the wife. I am absolutely in love with the smoothness of the draw on all of these bows. I believe that Martin bows are some of the finest DESIGNED today. However, the EXECUTION and attention to detail is lacking. I have set up bows for customers that shoot very quiet and smooth and set up others of the same model that we end up returning or refuse to the customer. I learned the importance for attention to detail in the Marine Corps and I think some of the Martin assemblers should go to Paris Island and learn the Marine way. Quality control and attention to detail would help propel them to the top. They have designed a nice looking, fast shooting, accurate/forgiving bow that should be beating out Mathews and Hoyt especially with such a low price point. I have had limbs come in 5lbs under design weight. strings 1.25" long, cables .75" long. cam bushings not pressed in perfectly, which results in it hitting the limb. I have also seen limbs explode and shadowcat risers come out of alignment. I am lucky to have a shop at my disposal and am able to make my strings. I think they should get rid of the quick disconnect as well, it really doesn't work well. Also an offset cable guard for extra vane clearance would be nice. I am a spot shooter as well as a hunter, How about other target color options and a camo pattern that matches up with accessories' patterns Vista camo doesn't look nice with anything except for Black, and some guys want camo sights, quivers, stabs, etc. In my opinion the persons doing the quality control checklists should be held accountable for their work after all, you are holding something with great energy right next to your face and eyes and putting a lot of faith in the manufacturer of the product. A bow is no less dangerous than a gun, if something isn't correct it can kill or seriously injure you. I would gladly pay an extra hundred for the same bows that are put together and checked more accurately.

the-beagle
08-16-2012, 11:19 PM
How about a quality youth bow like bear, diamond, and others have. And how about an IBO rating that is true. Bought the bengal pro, sweet bow bow but slower than slow. Look at bowhunting magazines tests. There are bows rated slower that shoot faster. Love grips but the pleather is too thin.

droppixel
08-17-2012, 09:47 AM
How about a quality youth bow like bear, diamond, and others have. And how about an IBO rating that is true. Bought the bengal pro, sweet bow bow but slower than slow. Look at bowhunting magazines tests. There are bows rated slower that shoot faster. Love grips but the pleather is too thin.

I think what could be useful as far as some of the IBO concerns go is to continue to push forward with their social media efforts. I think having some "quick-tip" type videos for the bows/cams etc would go a long way. It would help the everyday people have a better understanding of how their bow/cam is supposed to work in order to get them 1 step closer to reaching it's full potential. A lot is going to be up to the archer in tuning and finalizing the tweaks, but I think someway they could discuss the product further. I've seen from some of the ATA videos the engineer/designer behind some of these seems to be pretty knowledgeable to come up with these things, just explain it a little more.

It is what it is, like it or not, we live in a speed world. Everyone is concerned about it one way or another. Yeah if you purchase a bow based on look, feel and potential velocity ... you would like it to do what is being stated.

rdhj
08-18-2012, 06:57 PM
i would like to see a selection of target models and some more fancy colors.....carbon fiber and balck are getting old....red is to ordinary...how about some anodized colors

coastie hunter
08-18-2012, 10:18 PM
I have been real happy with martin that's why I shoot them but I guess there is always room for improvment. I think one thing I would like to see is martin at more shoots and some big name shooters shooting them lets get Reo Wild back that would be cool. I think martin's on the right track and have some great shooter's that did really well this year, I would love to give hoyt and mathews a run for there money because I shoot martins better than any other bow I have shot and martin has many records that will never be beat.

bcriner
08-23-2012, 12:14 PM
i would like to see a selection of target models and some more fancy colors.....carbon fiber and balck are getting old....red is to ordinary...how about some anodized colors

I agree. Now that the Scepter V is a one piece riser, there is no reason that it cannot be anodized again. Please bring out 4-5 different, vibrant target colors.

CarlosII
08-24-2012, 05:47 AM
I have been real happy with martin that's why I shoot them but I guess there is always room for improvment. I think one thing I would like to see is martin at more shoots and some big name shooters shooting them lets get Reo Wild back that would be cool. I think martin's on the right track and have some great shooter's that did really well this year, I would love to give hoyt and mathews a run for there money because I shoot martins better than any other bow I have shot and martin has many records that will never be beat.

i think mathews, hoyt, and pse are paying a pile of money to the top shooters like Reo, Levi, et. al. tough to fight that. like they used to say in drag racing the thing that beats cubic inches is cubic money. :)

deserthuntr
08-24-2012, 06:12 AM
I agree on the cam+module grooves eating away at the cables which should get attention. I had to sand mine down and put extra serving on to protect my cables. When is Martin releasing their new bows for 2013 (sorry if this has been asked and answered before). Thanks.

sloppy joe
08-30-2012, 08:36 PM
I wounld like to see a better finsh on martin bow. I've been shooting archery for a long long time, and martin as the poorest finsh of any bow i ever had.Don't get me wrong I love my onza the best bow I have ever had.

Phantonza
09-24-2012, 02:12 AM
Love grips but the pleather is too thin.

Yeah, I found this to be true with my Onza 3, too. The leather tends to stretch in use. I had to retighten mine and cut extra stretched part out. Need to visit local leather dressmaker's and get a piece of better quality replacement leather for the grip.

WildWilt15
09-24-2012, 11:59 AM
Well this is what i have experienced with my onza, the modules/cam grooves were not shredding the serving until i sent it in to get warranted for my cam lean and cracked limbs, now it seems as though im getting very rapid serving wear on the strings and the grip gets kinda bunched up under the shelf and the engraved side plate fell out and i had to put it back in. Before i sent it in i dont know how it happened but i had very bad cam lean, very noticeable which is why i feel i had later gotten cracks in my limbs, My module screws were very tight and i could not get them unscrewed, Martins customer service came through though which is nice but since sending my onza back it has lost a lot of speed and my cam timing and bow specs are right on it is also a little louder but its is still not that loud. So in conclusion of my rant i feel martin will do just fine in 2013 if they pay attention to detail and form some sort of consistency to get every bow sent out as good as the last. I love their bows and am excited to go shopping in 2013

Thermodude
09-27-2012, 05:15 AM
Good Morning All!

Ive been hearing and reading some intresting things about Martin/Rytera in 2013 most of which if true would be awsome! Im waiting with much anticipation as Im sure others are as well. Im without a Martin bow at the moment, not becuase of problems or disatisfaction, just that at this time various hobbies and buisness indeavors have taken me in a different direction. Im really looking forward to the ATA show this year and Ill be paying close attention to Rytera! Ive been doing some soul searching latley and to be very honest Im very close to hanging up my hunting gear and trading it all in for target gear. Im very unhappy with current changes pertaining to the archery season here in my state and view them as a deepening downward spiral that totaly go against why I became a bowhunter in the first place. Only time will tell but I wish everyone a happy and safe hunting season and to those who are allready successfull, congrats!!!!

droppixel
09-27-2012, 10:36 AM
NEVER STOP HUNTING!!

Yes 2013 talks are starting to pop up and it has sounded interesting so far. Really looking forward to the direction Martin takes - I'm pretty excited to see what is coming and maybe get my hands on one.

coastie hunter
09-27-2012, 12:09 PM
I was checking out the scepter v yesterday I dont think I have ever seen a nicer target bow wow that thing is sweet.

I had the pleasure of testing one earlier in the year. Only problem I had was that I couldn't get it short enough for my draw length, but I can tell you it's one of the best shooting bows I've shot in many years. And by that I mean about 3 decades. I just wish Martin could have seen fit to make a smaller cam for it.

droppixel
09-27-2012, 03:32 PM
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1859040

droppixel
10-01-2012, 10:27 AM
oh snap!

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/204351_10151109521362857_1678880760_o.jpg

WestMichiganBowhunter
10-01-2012, 10:42 AM
x4 looks good!
wonder what the price is....
notice the 315fps.........15fps less than 2012 listings on say the bengal.....
that's more in line to what it really is close to. That to me is a promising start!

is that a one piece riser on the x4................
if the freaking limbs hold up, and the sound is diminished, and the speed is more accurate....i may just return to shooting a Martin next year. But my Bear is so accurate and forgiving and sneaky fast and quiet...it will be hard to change.

But i like what i'm seeing so far

coastie hunter
10-01-2012, 10:47 AM
I like the limbs,don't like the rollerguards.

WestMichiganBowhunter
10-01-2012, 12:19 PM
what's wrong with rollerguards.....?
don't they help...?
i liked it on my 09 bengal

Spiker
10-01-2012, 12:57 PM
I'll tell ya right now that I'll have an alien X and an alien Z listed in the classifieds soon and a 2013 alien X will be taking up their spot on the bow rack.!

droppixel
10-01-2012, 01:21 PM
x4 looks good!
wonder what the price is....
notice the 315fps.........15fps less than 2012 listings on say the bengal.....
that's more in line to what it really is close to. That to me is a promising start!

is that a one piece riser on the x4................
if the freaking limbs hold up, and the sound is diminished, and the speed is more accurate....i may just return to shooting a Martin next year. But my Bear is so accurate and forgiving and sneaky fast and quiet...it will be hard to change.

But i like what i'm seeing so far

I don't think it is a fair assessment to say the 2012 is that low ... something might not have been correct with yours. not gonna lie some of your stuff sounds kinda elitist in a way and this isn't to pick a fight, just saying. People are excited about these and you have comments about things that need to get fixed for you to return - think a lot of what you are saying is already there ... Glad you like your Bear

droppixel
10-01-2012, 03:19 PM
Cover

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/481071_10151109794457857_2070809489_n.jpg

SJunior
10-01-2012, 08:20 PM
Gotta say the new Nemesis looks BAD AZZ!!!! Think I found my Christmas present.

droppixel
10-01-2012, 09:34 PM
We will no longer have a separate Rytera line. We decided to put all our focus and energy into one line of bows instead of splitting our efforts in half between the Martin & Rytera lines. The high end Martin "Pro Series" bows will now be referred to as the "Rytera Series", while the main line will remain the "Gold Series".

From AT post.

boothill
10-01-2012, 09:57 PM
I wish they would go to a split harness own the cables. A person could do some adjusting and maybe help tune out some cam lean. I had a Martin Ocelot years ago that I think was about their first machined alum riser and had a raised stabilizer mount. That bow had split limbs and split yoke cables on it. It tuned so easy and with the old Fury dual cams on it was very fast for its time.

And I hate the new Vista camo! I had the other Vista G1 camo that came out on the 2011 Onza bows. Had to get new limbs and they put on the new Vista camo. They don't match and really makes me mad. It stills shoots great but it would be nice if it matched like it did before. OK I'm done venting now.

Phantonza
10-02-2012, 03:44 AM
This is more radical than I expected. It will be very interesting to see the full catalog and specs.

With the roller guard and split limbs, the Nemesis 35 really looks like a Hoyt now... It looks good, though. I just hope the tuning complexities of some recent Hoyts have not been copied :D (I refer to the need of adjusting cams to a tilted position in bows like Carbon Element RKT in order to get your arrows fly straight and broadheads hit the same point with field tips. Normal arrow rest adjustment just won't do and I think that is a design flaw in a bow).

WestMichiganBowhunter
10-02-2012, 07:02 AM
I don't think it is a fair assessment to say the 2012 is that low ... something might not have been correct with yours. not gonna lie some of your stuff sounds kinda elitist in a way and this isn't to pick a fight, just saying. People are excited about these and you have comments about things that need to get fixed for you to return - think a lot of what you are saying is already there ... Glad you like your Bear

i don't think the 2012 line is low....in fact it's was a step in the right direction. Not trying to sound elitist or come off that way, but i've had a firecat that blew up on me and have the scars on my arms and hands to prove it...lol I should've sent martin the emergency room bill....lol Just kidding, i wouldn't have done that.....joel hooked me up, so that was good enough. In all seriousness i've had a firecat that caused me injuries and 2 other 09 bengals that never blew up or had the limbs splinter but the one was loud, and the other was pretty dang good actually. But the firecat was a nightmare and i've done enough reading on here and AT to know the issues. I like Martin and that there family owned and really like the customer service. I really like the fact that they have a forum like this. There are alot of cool guys on here and that are helpful.
I think 2013 & 2014 are going to be huge and instrumental with martin returning to the level that they once were known for. Good solid perfoming bows at a fair price. The 2013 line i'm sure will be a good performing line which makes me think already what will 2014 bring. I'm excited to hear how these new ones will perform.

Thermodude
10-02-2012, 07:44 AM
This is exciting news!!!!!

droppixel
10-02-2012, 10:46 AM
Alien

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/194792_10151110841412857_1661941016_o.jpg

I like the addition of the VEMs - interesting on the STS, wondering what is going to happen with the Carbon STS.

droppixel
10-02-2012, 11:07 AM
Blade X4

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/s480x480/229413_10151110872622857_1746545252_n.jpg

say up to 315 IBO - this is with the Fury XT cam which makes me hope that isn't supposed to be the true rating out of it with the 2012 models as well.

WestMichiganBowhunter
10-02-2012, 11:25 AM
wow the alien looks great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

the x4 is growing on me...probably the one i will be able to afford.

I really hope their quiet and at ibo ish

Liking the twin cam......
is it the nitro cam..?

bfisher
10-02-2012, 12:00 PM
I see the STS seems to be designed for more adjustability. Looks like a mounting block similar to the original STS. Not so sure I'm in tune with the CCS roller system. My 2010 Alien Z has it and it pulls the cables too far to the side. Guess we'll see.

coastie hunter
10-02-2012, 12:01 PM
Wow! those are sick good job martin.

coastie hunter
10-02-2012, 12:04 PM
I see the STS seems to be designed for more adjustability. Looks like a mounting block similar to the original STS. Not so sure I'm in tune with the CCS roller system. My 2010 Alien Z has it and it pulls the cables too far to the side. Guess we'll see. I agree not a big fan of the ccs,did you see pse flex cable slide for 2013 looks cool? I can't wait to get that pantera bfisher thanks again.

droppixel
10-02-2012, 12:07 PM
I like the flex options you see from some of the other manufacturers, but I've seen some guys say they place a small shim where the CCS mounts to kick out the front of it a little more so the back end comes in a little close not pulling the cables out too far.

bcriner
10-02-2012, 12:52 PM
Blade X4

say up to 315 IBO - this is with the Fury XT cam which makes me hope that isn't supposed to be the true rating out of it with the 2012 models as well.


Yes, I would say that was the IBO for 2012 as well. They seem to have been overrated by at least 5fps.

droppixel
10-02-2012, 01:23 PM
Nemesis 35

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/385071_10151111011727857_1042130291_n.jpg

Say this will replace the current Nemesis model. Anyone else notice the difference in the cams? Looks like a new design for this year?

themiddleman
10-02-2012, 02:11 PM
I don't know if all the 2013 models have gone away from the stabilizer quick disconnect and have gone back to steel inserts. But I do know that several have.

Hutch~n~Son Archery
10-02-2012, 02:25 PM
Boy it would be nice to see them in person!







Hutch:cool:

bfisher
10-02-2012, 04:48 PM
I like the flex options you see from some of the other manufacturers, but I've seen some guys say they place a small shim where the CCS mounts to kick out the front of it a little more so the back end comes in a little close not pulling the cables out too far.

I did that with my Alien Z. Used a small 1/8" spacer. The angle changed called for me to ream the front hole in the riser and use a longer screw, but it did seem to help with both the cam lean and smooth out the draw cycle.

bfisher
10-02-2012, 05:02 PM
Nemesis 35

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/385071_10151111011727857_1042130291_n.jpg

Say this will replace the current Nemesis model. Anyone else notice the difference in the cams? Looks like a new design for this year?

I'd bet it's just more metal out of the center to lighten them up. From what I see of the pics it looks like the same module as the last 3 years.



I don't know if all the 2013 models have gone away from the stabilizer quick disconnect and have gone back to steel inserts. But I do know that several have.

I had heard they were going back to steel bushings for the stabilizer. It would be one of those OLD way of doing things that didn't need to be changed. Much better than the QD slot and/or a drilled and tapped hole in the riser



Yes, I would say that was the IBO for 2012 as well. They seem to have been overrated by at least 5fps.

The IBO for the XT cam was stated as 320-330 for 2012. For 2013 it's 315 which is a more realistic figure as few people could even get close to 320 let alone
330. Frankly I would rather see the lower figure that is more honest rather than some high number that can't be achieved. Personally I'd like to see the ATA step in and do away with the IBO specs as they are. I'd rather see them require bows to be rated at specs that represent the average archer; 60#, 28" draw, and 350 grain arrow. That isn't going to happen any time soon though because nobody is going to accept lower speeds. Many are still wishing and hoping for 400 fps to be reached. They can't fathom dropping down to something closer to 300 again---God forbid we go backwards.

daiwateampenn
10-02-2012, 05:46 PM
Wow, closer picture... this is a piece i wan it so bad....

:o

droppixel
10-02-2012, 07:22 PM
The IBO for the XT cam was stated as 320-330 for 2012. For 2013 it's 315 which is a more realistic figure as few people could even get close to 320 let alone
330. Frankly I would rather see the lower figure that is more honest rather than some high number that can't be achieved. Personally I'd like to see the ATA step in and do away with the IBO specs as they are. I'd rather see them require bows to be rated at specs that represent the average archer; 60#, 28" draw, and 350 grain arrow. That isn't going to happen any time soon though because nobody is going to accept lower speeds. Many are still wishing and hoping for 400 fps to be reached. They can't fathom dropping down to something closer to 300 again---God forbid we go backwards.

So with this, I can't see why it would be rated that (320-330) if all the sudden it is down to 315 the following year. I would like to think that at some point 320-330 was achieved with this cam on whichever bow it is being applied to other wise why would it be marked as such. Is 330 realistic, probably not - but I'd like to think 320-325 within IBO standards would be possible after you do all your deductions in weight/arrow/draw/etc. Not to say that 315 isn't anything to shake a stick at. I guess what I'm trying to get at is don't falsely advertise the speeds if it isn't realistic. I think a lot of people figure that out and then are turned off in one way or another.

wscywabbit
10-02-2012, 10:36 PM
I wonder if the drop in IBO rating is due to the split limbs instead of single limbs... idk, just something that crossed my mind.

bfisher
10-03-2012, 05:21 AM
I wonder if the drop in IBO rating is due to the split limbs instead of single limbs... idk, just something that crossed my mind.

I wouldn't swear to it, but that could be it. But if that's the reason and the bow ends up more quiet and more reliable as far as limbs go then it would be a nice tradeoff. In all honesty I've only ever had one bow that was fast and that was my first Martin bow, a 2004 Slayr. With Nitrous B cams, rated at 325 fps, set at 53#, 57.5" draw, shooting a 275gr (5.2 gr/lb) arrow it did an honest 308fps. Then shortened down to 27", closer to my optimum draw length, it did 299fps. Since then I've had various new bows rated at 335fps that shoot around 270fps. Go figure. I shoot all my bows at 5 gr/lb so the only computing I have to account for is the difference in draw length from 30" down to my now 26 3/4".

WestMichiganBowhunter
10-03-2012, 08:14 AM
wouldn't it be great if the prior year models could be retrofitted with the split limbs...?

bcriner
10-03-2012, 08:18 AM
I wonder if the drop in IBO rating is due to the split limbs instead of single limbs... idk, just something that crossed my mind.

I don't think so. I am pretty sure they were just overrated with speeds obtained only under test conditions and not normal setups.

andy_camping
10-03-2012, 10:10 AM
Wow, I really like my new Bengal Pro but the new Nemisis looks sweet. Why does it all have to change just one season after I purchase something....man this could easily turn into an addiction.

bfisher
10-03-2012, 11:04 AM
Wow, I really like my new Bengal Pro but the new Nemisis looks sweet. Why does it all have to change just one season after I purchase something....man this could easily turn into an addiction.

As a shooter of compound bows for almost 40 years and about 30 new bows this is not something I'd like to discuss.

droppixel
10-03-2012, 11:06 AM
As a shooter of compound bows for almost 40 years and about 30 new bows this is not something I'd like to discuss.

HAHA I am feeling the same, I'm excited to see what the rest of the lineup looks like and could see myself falling in love with a new model and would need to make a decision if I should move from the Bengal to a 2013 or see what my other options may be.

alex
10-03-2012, 02:11 PM
I like the Alien the most, too bad that I'm not on the market for a new compound. And am curious about the Blade - the quad limbs, the lower IBO speed and "the best value of the year" make me think that it's made a little more to the west of Walla Walla... Poe Lang, Taiwan for example. :rolleyes:

Hutch~n~Son Archery
10-03-2012, 02:12 PM
Rytera Archery (https://www.facebook.com/Rytera?ref=stream)
We (Martin Archery) will no longer have a separate Rytera line. We have decided to put all our focus and energy into one line of bows instead of splitting our efforts in half between the Martin & Rytera lines. The high end Martin "Pro Series" bows will now be referred to as the "Rytera Series", while the main line will remain the "Gold Series". We hope this clears up any confusion about seeing the Alien and Nemesis 35 in the new Martin lineup.






Hutch

droppixel
10-03-2012, 02:30 PM
Rytera Archery (https://www.facebook.com/Rytera?ref=stream)
We (Martin Archery) will no longer have a separate Rytera line. We have decided to put all our focus and energy into one line of bows instead of splitting our efforts in half between the Martin & Rytera lines. The high end Martin "Pro Series" bows will now be referred to as the "Rytera Series", while the main line will remain the "Gold Series". We hope this clears up any confusion about seeing the Alien and Nemesis 35 in the new Martin lineup.






Hutch




I'm all over the Martin news lately. Couple days late (http://martinarchery.com/mtechforum/showthread.php?24708-Martin-Archery-in-2013&p=95906#post95906) and a few hundred dollars short ... I take cash or paypal :P

dzsmith
10-04-2012, 07:43 AM
It's about time , i always wondered what was going through there head to have a separate bow line, I can't wait I will be getting a new bow after this season

dzsmith
10-04-2012, 07:49 AM
All I got say is , if Martin cannot realease a fast short bow fOr 2013 I will not be shootIng a Martin . I own an exile which is a great bow but I'm not going to purchase a new bow if it's still a slow bow. I will not go backwards . There's plent of companies with fast bows out and they aren't going backwards

bcriner
10-04-2012, 08:00 AM
All I got say is , if Martin cannot realease a fast short bow fOr 2013 I will not be shootIng a Martin . I own an exile which is a great bow but I'm not going to purchase a new bow if it's still a slow bow. I will not go backwards . There's plent of companies with fast bows out and they aren't going backwards

I think the fastest you will get is 335 in the Alien, with the Hybrix cams. I don't think you are going to see any new cams, just new risers. If you are looking for a short low brace height bow shooting 345-360, you better look somewhere else like PSE.

dmw
10-04-2012, 04:25 PM
Marketing sells bows. Uncle Ted is great but You need 4 or 5 more shows
to keep the name in front of the people.
They should take a lesson from Bowtech and others when they sell pac. bows
as cheap as a bare bow and a GOOD youth and LADIES bow would not hurt at all .
I have been buying Martins For years , All four of my children started with Martin
but have moved on to other brands , Better deals , better bows , better tech ect,ect,ect.
I would like to see Martin make a strong come back. I just hope they have what it takes .

724wd
10-04-2012, 06:04 PM
why the beef with the QD stab system? I thought that was a GREAT idea! eliminated an add-on piece and works very well! oh well, not like i'm springing for a 2013 yet anyway...;) that ol' 2011 is still getting it done!

wscywabbit
10-04-2012, 06:45 PM
ok this speed thing is gonna bug me so I gotta put my 2 cents in. 335-345 IBO bow is fast,I don't care who you are. I don't know about some of you but I've drawn a few of the faster IBO bows and man it was like trying to pull a Mac truck. they have a harder draw that your shoulder won't appreciate, and a small brace height which is WAY less forgiving... just a thought.

Arrow Splitter
10-04-2012, 08:06 PM
ok this speed thing is gonna bug me so I gotta put my 2 cents in. 335-345 IBO bow is fast,I don't care who you are. I don't know about some of you but I've drawn a few of the faster IBO bows and man it was like trying to pull a Mac truck. they have a harder draw that your shoulder won't appreciate, and a small brace height which is WAY less forgiving... just a thought.
I agree totally. I never have tried to pull a Mac truck yet though....;):D

A.S

bowgramp59
10-04-2012, 08:34 PM
I see the STS seems to be designed for more adjustability. Looks like a mounting block similar to the original STS. Not so sure I'm in tune with the CCS roller system. My 2010 Alien Z has it and it pulls the cables too far to the side. Guess we'll see.

i hate to see that ccs on the nemesis, but if they changed the angle of the rollers or moved them closer in they might be ok. if you remember i replace the ccs system with the cable slide system {diy} on all three of my alien xs they are much better IMO, smoother to draw, less cam lean, & quiter . have a good day & good shooting !

Paradox
10-09-2012, 12:23 PM
ok this speed thing is gonna bug me so I gotta put my 2 cents in. 335-345 IBO bow is fast,I don't care who you are. I don't know about some of you but I've drawn a few of the faster IBO bows and man it was like trying to pull a Mac truck. they have a harder draw that your shoulder won't appreciate, and a small brace height which is WAY less forgiving... just a thought.


Amen Brother......... I kill stuff with a hickory selfbow and wood arrows which probably isn't even at 140 FPS. In a compound I'll take smoothness/ease of draw over speed any day.

rnfrazier
10-09-2012, 12:33 PM
Speed just makes ya miss faster

justin
10-11-2012, 12:00 PM
Well martin, props to you as it doesnt look like anyone wants better strings from the factory. You guys really made a great leap there. Sad to see the alien z go, but on the good side you are offering a 35 in ata bow with the hybrix/cat/nitros. And after 3 model years ( my az is a 2010) my az isnt obsolete. and even better, there isnt any bow out there at any price id rather shoot!! Ive looked around and no one can offer anything better! Im still giddy when i look at and shoot my bow! Well done martin. As for 2013. If your qc has been straightened out your bows should sell like mad once any residual bad rep is shed. I personally had to refit my roto cups on my ax and az. Shouldnt have had to, but now iknow its done right. Btw. one of the things that influenced my decision to buy martin was they didnt have split limbs. I still dont like split limbs. Just sayin. :)

Justin

droppixel
10-12-2012, 12:51 PM
Anyone seen anything else new yet? Getting ancy to check them out ... have a feeling gonna get a big urge for a 2013 with Nitro cams.

WildWilt15
10-12-2012, 01:20 PM
I really dig the cut down look of the nitro cams this year might look at that nemesis 35 but that is the only bow i really am interested in at the moment.

NuttyNative
10-14-2012, 11:28 PM
I like the fact Martin is making a split limb bow but don't care for the shape of them. Looks like the limbs on Bears lower line bows. Bear went away from that design and in my opinion it was for the better. Not a Bear fan but I love the Anarchy. I think split limb bows are easier to draw and are quieter than a single limbed bow. I've owned 20 different bows in the last 5 years and the Guardian was hands down the quietest and I believe the limb design and shape had alot to do with it.

cmwr
10-15-2012, 06:08 AM
I know the title to this thread is Martin archery in 2013 and what they can do to better improve their product. Everybody's going on and on about quality issues with their 2009, 2010 and 2011 bows. Those years were a low point for Martin archery and they certainly had more than their share of quality control issues, but, what about the 2012 bows? Martin has really stepped up to the plate this year. I have a wall full of Martin and Rytera bows in my bow shop and I would defy anybody to find any flaws on any of them. Every bow that has come in to my shop has been looked over, they all passed the test and then some. My customers are very happy with their purchases as well. As with any product there's always room for improvement but so far, 2012 is been a great year for Martin archery and I am proud to be a dealer for them.
Pat Finney
Prairie Archery

I have read posts on both forums and got to admit I wonder when is it gonna be my time for a problem with my 2012? I am sure glad I bought a bow from that year instead of buying a 2011 ect. I have had no problems with mine but I don't shoot like the rest of you do either. I shot the heck out of my new Martin this spring and early summer but since June have only shot about 10 arrows through it. So to say I have not had any problems is not anything to rely on. It is the guys who put thousands of arrows through their equipment that I listen to. That being said I love my Martin and am a devoted Martin customer since I purchased my other Martin Used in 2001. Never looked back. Go Martin and best of luck to you!!!

cmwr
10-15-2012, 06:57 AM
Anyone know if those new roller cable guards can be purchased and bolted on my 2012 Silencer or are the risers holes machined differently?

WestMichiganBowhunter
10-15-2012, 08:23 AM
I like the fact Martin is making a split limb bow but don't care for the shape of them. Looks like the limbs on Bears lower line bows. Bear went away from that design and in my opinion it was for the better. Not a Bear fan but I love the Anarchy. I think split limb bows are easier to draw and are quieter than a single limbed bow. I've owned 20 different bows in the last 5 years and the Guardian was hands down the quietest and I believe the limb design and shape had alot to do with it.


You may not like the shape of the Bear Split limbs, but i'm here to tell you that all the bear bows that i've owned....i have not had one limb issue...and that is with a couple of thousand shots thru them each. They shape them for a reason.
Here is my list of bear split limb bow that i've owned
instinct
truth twice...
truth 2 - 3 times now
& now a Bear Strike...which turns out to be my favorite!!!!
Not one problem with any of them.
They have turned out to be right on IBO......smooth, super quiet!!!!!, vibe free, plenty of power!! Very accurate, especially the strike.
This is just my opinion and experience.
7242

bfisher
10-15-2012, 09:31 AM
Anyone know if those new roller cable guards can be purchased and bolted on my 2012 Silencer or are the risers holes machined differently?

To mount a CCs onto a riser the riser needs to have a slot machined into RH side of the riser (RH bow). The slot is approximately 1/8" deep and 3/4" wide. Also there are two hole drilled through the riser to bolt it down. If there is no such slot (I doubt it) then it won't fit.

cmwr
10-15-2012, 07:04 PM
To mount a CCs onto a riser the riser needs to have a slot machined into RH side of the riser (RH bow). The slot is approximately 1/8" deep and 3/4" wide. Also there are two hole drilled through the riser to bolt it down. If there is no such slot (I doubt it) then it won't fit.

Pretty sure your right. It was a nice idea though. Whats with all the talk about limb issues with solid limbs? Is this an issue that still exists or did they fix the problem at some point?

bob cooly
10-15-2012, 08:23 PM
I hope Martin remembers to make their bows user friendly for us guys that do our own work. The concept of not needing a bow press to work on your bow is a huge factor to figure in when buying a bow. Pro shops are a joke in my area and the nearest one is a 200+ round trip. If not I'll be shooting or buying 2012 bows instead of the newest and greatest.

rnfrazier
10-15-2012, 10:16 PM
I am not a fan of split limb bows and really sad to see Martin going to them.

WestMichiganBowhunter
10-16-2012, 06:36 AM
what is it about split limbs that has some against them.

Clearly they must be better, why else would Martin start incorporating them ?

I've more split limb bows than solid...by just a couple...lol

i've had no problems with them. It is my guess that they are stronger, maybe create more fps, & quieter!

The funny thing is whenever i brought my firecat or bengals in to my local shop just to shoot in his indoor range....he would always come over and grab my bow and fire a couple of shots and throughly inspect my limbs over and say that i'm getting lucky....
Man that always had me feeling confident......................NOT!
He would never inspect my Bear Instinct, Truth, truth 2 or my Strike now.....he would shoot them though.


Some of the Old martin die hards should embrace this change........i'm sure it's for the better. Something needed to change.

cmwr
10-16-2012, 06:46 AM
I don't know if all the 2013 models have gone away from the stabilizer quick disconnect and have gone back to steel inserts. But I do know that several have.

I have heard alot of people saying stuff like this in this thread. Was there a problem with the QD?

I do know anytime you constantly remove and reinstall something from aluminum it wears faster than say steel. I am thinking of putting a stud in mine with a jam nut and getting a stabilizer with a female hole. That way the stress will not be on the riser every time i remove my stabilizer. I envision the QD eventually pulling through with enough times tightening down. Makes me nervous honestly but I cannot get my bow in the case with it on. I got to admit I get nervous every time I remove it.

coastie hunter
10-16-2012, 02:17 PM
what is it about split limbs that has some against them.

Clearly they must be better, why else would Martin start incorporating them ?

I've more split limb bows than solid...by just a couple...lol

i've had no problems with them. It is my guess that they are stronger, maybe create more fps, & quieter!

The funny thing is whenever i brought my firecat or bengals in to my local shop just to shoot in his indoor range....he would always come over and grab my bow and fire a couple of shots and throughly inspect my limbs over and say that i'm getting lucky....
Man that always had me feeling confident......................NOT!
He would never inspect my Bear Instinct, Truth, truth 2 or my Strike now.....he would shoot them though.


Some of the Old martin die hards should embrace this change........i'm sure it's for the better. Something needed to change. I think they will be just fine as long as the deflection # are the same.

WilliamClark
10-16-2012, 02:51 PM
i am thinking that the blade x4 may be my next bow. i love my threshold, deadly accurate and the price was amazing factory direct via amazon. if the blade x4 is better i caanot wait to see the price and start saving up. Good job Martin Archery. Thank you for the wonderful products!

Phantonza
10-20-2012, 02:39 PM
I like the fact Martin is making a split limb bow but don't care for the shape of them. Looks like the limbs on Bears lower line bows. Bear went away from that design and in my opinion it was for the better. Not a Bear fan but I love the Anarchy. I think split limb bows are easier to draw and are quieter than a single limbed bow. I've owned 20 different bows in the last 5 years and the Guardian was hands down the quietest and I believe the limb design and shape had alot to do with it.

Easier to draw? I think it is about the cams, not about the limbs being solid or split. My solid limb Onza 3 has a lot nicer draw than my previous Hoyt CRX 32 (split limb) which I Pretty much hated.

archerdad
10-22-2012, 05:33 PM
really ready to gander over the new nemesis, love the old one too though

deserthuntr
10-23-2012, 07:21 AM
easier to draw? I think it is about the cams, not about the limbs being solid or split. My solid limb onza 3 has a lot nicer draw than my previous hoyt crx 32 (split limb) which i pretty much hated.

x2!

deserthuntr
10-23-2012, 07:23 AM
really ready to gander over the new nemesis, love the old one too though

Yea, the new Nemesis 35 has my vote so far of all the new bows, think it's gonna be a shooter!

Woody69
10-23-2012, 09:05 AM
I think they should go back to anodizing their risers to take care of a lot of the finish problems (at least with the non camo bows) I have an old Scepter 2 that is anodized and the finish on it looks in way better condition than my newer Scepter 4's.

One of the main things I always liked about Martin, and thought made them a smarter option than a lot of other brands was the interchangeability of all their limb and cam options with the older bows, You had 17", 16" & 14" limbs to choose from, and a whole array of cams as well, and they could all be mixed and matched to come up with a bow that suited the archer down to the ground......not so much now with the newer bows.

I would also like them to bring back the Nitrous cams, or some other (even faster) X shoot through cam system, as long as they feel similar to the Nitrous cams.

I would still like to add a Shadowcat and a Scepter V to my stable though ! :cool:

Woody

elkslayer4x5
10-23-2012, 11:37 AM
I think they should go back to anodizing their risers to take care of a lot of the finish problems (at least with the non camo bows) I have an old Scepter 2 that is anodized and the finish on it looks in way better condition than my newer Scepter 4's.

One of the main things I always liked about Martin, and thought made them a smarter option than a lot of other brands was the interchangeability of all their limb and cam options with the older bows, You had 17", 16" & 14" limbs to choose from, and a whole array of cams as well, and they could all be mixed and matched to come up with a bow that suited the archer down to the ground......not so much now with the newer bows.

I would also like them to or some othbring back the Nitrous cams,er (even faster) X shoot through cam system, as long as they feel similar to the Nitrous cams.I would still like to add a Shadowcat and a Scepter V to my stable though ! :cool:

Woody

I think that there is a long list of folks who would like to see that happen!

Phantonza
11-29-2012, 06:26 AM
Dean,
2. The reason for premature serving wear is being caused by sharp edges in the cam and module grooves. At least that has been what I've found. So this part I do have to agree with. I don't think it would be so hard to change the machining procedure to alleviate this problem. I know that compared with the Cat/Nitro/Hybrix cams the Nitrous cams were machined with nice round edges in and around the string grooves and exhibited none of the wear being seen today.


Has anyone observed yet if this issue has been addressed in 2013 lineup? I must say I am quite dissappointed if it hasn't, since I believe Martin has certainly got enough feedback about it. If I could get a Nitro 3 cam's draw length module in my hands, I could easily see it it still has the sharp 90 degree edge on the inner side.

And, if the issue has been fixed, I would definitely order a pair of 2013 modules for my 2011 Onza 3 (even though I have made the edges round myself using a file).

hawkdriver55
12-04-2012, 01:13 PM
Iam just glad I got my hands on a 2012 Cougar FC before they all got gone. I think 2013 line up looks sad. The speed numbers are stuck in the mid to low numbers of the industry. 80% of PSE pro line shoots faster than all the top end Martins in 2013. When I found out the Silencer wasn't comeing back in 2013 I went on the search for one and got lucky and found a sweet deal on a Cougar.

To be honest......there is nothing in the 2013 line that I would drop my money on. Too many better options out there with other companies.

WHY IS MARTIN SLOWING DOWN??????

Arrow Splitter
12-04-2012, 04:27 PM
Iam just glad I got my hands on a 2012 Cougar FC before they all got gone. I think 2013 line up looks sad. The speed numbers are stuck in the mid to low numbers of the industry. 80% of PSE pro line shoots faster than all the top end Martins in 2013. When I found out the Silencer wasn't comeing back in 2013 I went on the search for one and got lucky and found a sweet deal on a Cougar.

To be honest......there is nothing in the 2013 line that I would drop my money on. Too many better options out there with other companies.

WHY IS MARTIN SLOWING DOWN??????It's called real-world speed numbers. Martin has done their best to put IBO speeds out that are as close to real-world numbers as possible. I congratulate them for doing this.

Not all other bow companies make bows that do the speed that they advertise either. I am not putting any company down either. PSE bows may do the advertised speed, but the bottom line is speed is only part of the package.

A.S

Lab Rat
12-04-2012, 10:07 PM
I somewhat agree that the speeds are somewhat slow, but you have to look at how the others are reaching the speeds. Most of the highest speed bows have 5.5 to 6 inch brace heights increasing the power stroke. This is immediately throwing another 10 to 15 fps on top of their 7 inch brace height counterparts. Just about every bow in the lineup has a 7 inch brace. It begs to question if this is a philosophy of "shootability". I imagine that Martin just doesn't feel that making the bows less forgiving for 10-15 fps is worth it. I personally would like to have a choice between a 6 inch brace or a 7 inch brace -- for instance the Insanity CPXL vs the CPX or the Monster 6, 7, or 8. It would be cool to have a Aliex X or an Alien Z with a 6 inch brace and tweak it to IBO 345 just to have one speed freak bow and what the heck call it the Alien Encounter or Abduction.

I am not sure how practical this is, but it would be nice that if you buy a Rytera Pro Series bow that the bow is setup to all specs and meets the advertised speeds from the factory. There is one "dealer" in my city that doesn't even stock the bows, but says that he can order one for me. How hard do you think that he will work on that bow to shoot as it was intended?

Arrow Splitter
12-05-2012, 04:41 AM
I somewhat agree that the speeds are somewhat slow, but you have to look at how the others are reaching the speeds. Most of the highest speed bows have 5.5 to 6 inch brace heights increasing the power stroke. This is immediately throwing another 10 to 15 fps on top of their 7 inch brace height counterparts. Just about every bow in the lineup has a 7 inch brace. It begs to question if this is a philosophy of "shootability". I imagine that Martin just doesn't feel that making the bows less forgiving for 10-15 fps is worth it. I personally would like to have a choice between a 6 inch brace or a 7 inch brace -- for instance the Insanity CPXL vs the CPX or the Monster 6, 7, or 8. It would be cool to have a Aliex X or an Alien Z with a 6 inch brace and tweak it to IBO 345 just to have one speed freak bow and what the heck call it the Alien Encounter or Abduction.

I am not sure how practical this is, but it would be nice that if you buy a Rytera Pro Series bow that the bow is setup to all specs and meets the advertised speeds from the factory. There is one "dealer" in my city that doesn't even stock the bows, but says that he can order one for me. How hard do you think that he will work on that bow to shoot as it was intended?

Well put. I forgot about the BH difference. Taking an 1.5" off the brace height would definitely change how a Martin shoots, and I doubt it would be for the better.

I like your idea of a Martin speed bow. Maybe call it the "Alien Speed".:cool:

Phantonza
12-05-2012, 06:46 AM
Well put. I forgot about the BH difference. Taking an 1.5" off the brace height would definitely change how a Martin shoots, and I doubt it would be for the better.

I like your idea of a Martin speed bow. Maybe call it the "Alien Speed".:cool:

There is Seeker, of course, with adjustable brace height (minimum 5.75").

elkslayer4x5
12-05-2012, 07:39 AM
I somewhat agree that the speeds are somewhat slow, but you have to look at how the others are reaching the speeds. Most of the highest speed bows have 5.5 to 6 inch brace heights increasing the power stroke. This is immediately throwing another 10 to 15 fps on top of their 7 inch brace height counterparts. Just about every bow in the lineup has a 7 inch brace. It begs to question if this is a philosophy of "shootability". I imagine that Martin just doesn't feel that making the bows less forgiving for 10-15 fps is worth it. I personally would like to have a choice between a 6 inch brace or a 7 inch brace -- for instance the Insanity CPXL vs the CPX or the Monster 6, 7, or 8. It would be cool to have a Aliex X or an Alien Z with a 6 inch brace and tweak it to IBO 345 just to have one speed freak bow and what the heck call it the Alien Encounter or Abduction.

I am not sure how practical this is, but it would be nice that if you buy a Rytera Pro Series bow that the bow is setup to all specs and meets the advertised speeds from the factory. There is one "dealer" in my city that doesn't even stock the bows, but says that he can order one for me. How hard do you think that he will work on that bow to shoot as it was intended?

"Alien Warp Speed"

Lab Rat
12-05-2012, 08:42 AM
New 2014 bow. Rytera Alien Light Speed. Cross the Warthog and the Alien X. Shave the weight with split limbs and cut some riser weight to reach bare weight of 3.2 lb and IBO 355. I love to dream. People would be saying didn't Mathews used to make a light bow -- I think it was called Heli or something like that.

WildWilt15
12-05-2012, 10:53 AM
New 2014 bow. Rytera Alien Light Speed. Cross the Warthog and the Alien X. Shave the weight with split limbs and cut some riser weight to reach bare weight of 3.2 lb and IBO 355. I love to dream. People would be saying didn't Mathews used to make a light bow -- I think it was called Heli or something like that.

I honestly feel Martin has all the tools to make this happen and isn't really that BIG of a dream will they do it? probably not but if they did it would give them fanboys a jaw drop for sure.

Hutch~n~Son Archery
12-05-2012, 02:58 PM
If you look back 10 years or better, Martin had bows shooting 310-plus. If I remember right 2002 Rage with fury cams was hitting I.B.O of 313 fps and the Cougar was hitting I.B.O of 315fps. Now that was in 2002, so they can do what most of the companies are doing. But speed isn't everything. I know some believe that it is. But accuracy and quietness is one of the main things I buy a bow for. I also don't believe that every company puts out totally accurate I.B.O speeds. They want you to think the bow is that fast. My Motto is I will believe it when I see it. Frankly I haven't seen to many doing what they say they can do.




Hutch:cool:

wscywabbit
12-05-2012, 03:12 PM
The speed/brace height/shootability issue is paramount to me. I understand that there are companies out there with faster bows in their lineup, but at what cost?

A smaller brace height not only makes a bow more unforgiving, but what about arm clearance? If I'm using a bow to hunt, and am wearing a jacket or something I don't want the string to slap my jacket and make the shot go wide and a bunch of noise. I actually saw an episode of Bow Madness where the guy slapped his jacket with the string, he was pretty upset!

elkslayer4x5
12-06-2012, 09:01 AM
Archery shops still sell arm guards. :)

Phantonza
12-06-2012, 09:55 AM
Archery shops still sell arm guards. :)

Yeah, but I wouldn't trust my accuracy if the string would hit my arm on the shot.

Also string stops help in preventing the slap with low brace height bows.

Tosi
12-06-2012, 01:08 PM
Wow! This thread got some momentum. Like it or not; I have an Alpine Verdict that is a 6.25 Brace at 31.5ATA and the catalog put it at 328. I will tell ya that it flat get out their fast with a 430g arrow. Much faster than my Fire Cat 400, the Verdict draw is smooth as a baby's but with the Velocitec Cam "30 and split Limbs. The Fire Cat was @ 278-283 with 430g arrow and 8125G strings. Currently have trophy on here and it slowed her down some. Had the FC tuned just right and have a Sanders Hyper Slide on her. I haven't got the verdict on a Chrono yet but would guess some were around 285-90fps (+/-) with 430g arrow 8190 strings. I think you need speed but not at the price for comfort also. A good balance between them is best. I've shot hell of a lot of bows over the years and most are different. The one brand of bows the last few years that have been similar is Martin (FC 400/Cougar/Silencer). "Good bows for a balance of speed and comfort". I'm not sold on the 2013 line-up. Just picked up a F1 Fire Ball 34 ATA listed @ 337 w/a 6.12 brace, can't wait to see what this one will do.

Lab Rat
12-06-2012, 08:49 PM
Here's another idea -- Seeker 365 with redesigned hybrix cams that can shoot IBO 365 ft/s. Then offer the option of smooth mods which is basically the current cams. Give PSE a run for their money.

Spiker
12-07-2012, 09:23 AM
There is an article on AT by Terry Martin that kinda gives their take on this.
If I find it again I'll post a link.

Spiker
12-07-2012, 12:15 PM
How Fast Do You Need Your Bow To Be?
By: Terry Martin
Over the last 40 years, I have personally tested thousands of bows. In addition, I have reviewed hundreds of test results and reviews written for articles.
In the early years of the compound bow, truth is many good recurves were faster than most compounds. In the early years compound bows’ let-off made it easier to hold at full draw. However, the durability and performance was not what it is today. It would be similar to comparing the Model T to cars of today.
An archer needs to consider several things when choosing between a traditional or compound bow. Many archers choose to shoot traditional bows for their simplicity and light weight, not to mention the tradition and enjoyment of shooting these classic designs.
Speed is great, however there is a price to pay. In early compound design, the energy was created by round eccentric wheels. These bows peaked at maximum weight for about 2 inches during the draw force curve of the bow.
Current cam have been designed so the bow draws with peaking almost as soon as you start drawing back and not letting off until almost full draw. This creates much more stored energy and a much faster bow.
Basically, the faster the bow the harder it will be to pull back. At full draw, however, the archer is only holding about 30 percent of the peak weight.


For comparisons, here are some examples of average speeds for different types:


Longbow 160 to 180 fps (feet per second)
Recurve 170 to 210 fps
Early compounds 180 to 240 fps
Current compounds with high performance cams 280 to 350 fps
Of course, it’s important to consider other changes made over the years like riser materials, better string material, improved limb technology, cam design, composite arrows and overall bow design.
Over the years, new bow designs, release aids and arrows have caused controversy. I remember when I was 10 years old, many felt the bow sight was too much an improvement. The reality is you could tape a tooth pick on your sight window and have an advantage.
Release aids were an even bigger controversy. Some states banned release aids in the 1970s, but sales were as strong as states without a ban so the banning laws were quickly changed. The reality is the Turks used release aids hundreds of years ago.
You can imagine what a controversy the compound bow was. Many archers felt they would destroy archery. Some dealers refused to carry compounds. Since the traditional market died for several years after the introduction of compounds, shops that refused to sell anything except recurves and long bows did not survive.
Many manufacturers stopped production of traditional bows entirely. In the last 20 years, interest has returned and the traditional market has been increasing. In today’s market, archers can choose whichever feels best to them and many shoot both.
Both have advantages — compound have more speed, which helps when judging yardage, they shoot flatter and allow the archer the advantage of misjudging the yardage by a greater distance and still hit the target; long bows and recurves have the advantage of simplicity and light weight.
You can have lot of fun no matter whatever you choose. Archery is a great family sport. Keep in mind, even if a bow is fast, if it’s not tuned or the archer isn’t able to handle the bow, you just miss at a faster
speed!