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View Full Version : Peterson's Bowhunting Magazine Review of the 2012 Bengal...anyone else read it...?



WestMichiganBowhunter
08-07-2012, 03:02 PM
so i read last night with eagerness...and kinda came away dissappointed........
when it came to quietness it was pretty quiet, moderate level of vibration, the grip was very well regarded...............here's the biggee..............the speed was really dissappointing.....
slow!!!!
the tester shoots at 65lbs and 28 inch DL.......and 375 grains
In a nut shell the mathews z7 shot during testing with the same magazine...like 304-306 fps
which puts it at IBO spec basically....

the bengal was at 280fps...........which really puts it at a 305-310fps bow......
dissapointing to say the least.......
Not trying to bash or get a big argument on here going but dang.

am i off thinking that the bengal is a 305-310fps realistically......?
i'm trying to make sense of the petersons bowhunting test......
if i buy one next year...i want to know what these bows and this fury cam are really doing...

Speedykills
08-07-2012, 05:54 PM
Only way your gonna know is go shoot one with your arrow,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if ya got to drive a distance then so be it.............i dont see any other way.....Or do like i did get one from a online store,i got mine from dicks and have 90 days to return it if not satisfied......if you dont like it send it back.

SJunior
08-07-2012, 08:57 PM
Add 5# to the draw weight, 2" to the draw length and subtract 25 grains from the arrow weight and see what it shoots.

Until you shoot one you will not know if YOU like it or not.

Ehunter
08-07-2012, 09:23 PM
I don't pay any attention to what a magazine says about a bow. Of course they are going to talk up the "Big 3" because that's where their advertising money comes from.
Until they have bow techs from each company set the bows up to peak performance, THEN test them, there'll never be a truly honest comparison. For all anyone knows, the Martin may have been out of time and out of tune. We all know that ruins speed and accuracy, causes vibration and noise, etc. And from what you stated, that's exactly what they had. An untuned bow.
Gimme ANY bow, and I can make it shoot WELL under IBO if I want to. lol

daiwateampenn
08-07-2012, 09:48 PM
no referees, no judges, no inspector.

how to call for the count?

No count for me....

andy_camping
08-08-2012, 05:10 PM
What's the price difference?

Personally, I'm not willing to spend twice as much for a bow that shoots 10 fps more. Hunting whitetail in New York consists of shots to 30 yrds or less in 90% of the hunting situations. The Bengal far exceeds the needs of any hunting bow here. If you're hunting speed goats over waterholes in Wyoming out to 50-60 yds all the time then maybe the extra speed is warranted. But in that case I think its really specialized.

I just don't understand the whole speed infatuations, seriously, hunt with a rifle if you want super fast.

Just my 2 cents.

Scott
08-08-2012, 07:37 PM
Go to AT, those Big 3 are a dime a dozen. Try to find a Martin/Rytera for get about it.

droppixel
08-08-2012, 10:42 PM
Hard to know. I'm not a big speed guy but did get mine on a chrono finally just to see what was happening. I was getting 275 out of my setup. I'm sure there is some more that could be gained, but I don't have a chrono to sit down and really tinker with it until I find the optimal setup. Right now I'm pretty happy with what I'm getting. Accuracy is insane and the shot feels great - there isn't any vibration, period.

Phantonza
08-09-2012, 04:47 AM
2012 Bengal Pro was also tested in a recent issue of Bowhunting World Magazine. The review was positive. I try to find the magazine later to check about speed - I think they measured it.

archerdad
08-09-2012, 02:39 PM
martin's web site lists them at 320- 330 fps

Phantonza
08-10-2012, 04:47 AM
2012 Bengal Pro was also tested in a recent issue of Bowhunting World Magazine. The review was positive. I try to find the magazine later to check about speed - I think they measured it.

Speed tests of Bowhunting Word (August issue 2012 VOL 61 NO. 5):
Arrow weight 385 grains 500 grains
Arrow @ 70 pounds 319 fps 288 fps
Arrow @ 60 pounds 294 fps 264 fps

Draw length was not given, but I suppose it was the IBO rating.

Martin specifies 320 - 330 fps speed. IBO specifications use a lighter arrow (350 grain). So it 319 fps was measured with a heavier arrow (385 grains), it should be well within specs!

Thermodude
08-10-2012, 05:48 AM
Ive never shot the Bengal so I dont know if it performs the way its advertised or not but I have shot the Pantera with the same cam many, many times through my chrono..................72lbs, 29'dl, 362grn arrow...............................285-288 fps............the string isnt loaded up, I have an ultralight peep, string loop and Ive taken all the serving off that isnt needed............

droppixel
08-10-2012, 02:26 PM
Speed tests of Bowhunting Word (August issue 2012 VOL 61 NO. 5):
Arrow weight 385 grains 500 grains
Arrow @ 70 pounds 319 fps 288 fps
Arrow @ 60 pounds 294 fps 264 fps

Draw length was not given, but I suppose it was the IBO rating.

Martin specifies 320 - 330 fps speed. IBO specifications use a lighter arrow (350 grain). So it 319 fps was measured with a heavier arrow (385 grains), it should be well within specs!

Assuming this was potentially bare string? If not, mine is under by a good margin. I'm bottomed out on my 60# limb - card said max 64.4# - arrow around 375-380ish - 30"dl (GT Velocity 300 28", 100gr, Blazer, AcuNock) and was shooting 275. I have a Meta Peep, D-Loop and a pair of whiskers. I just redid my whiskers so they didn't have as much material on them. Makes me wonder if they were shooting a 500gr at 60# 10fps less than what I was getting, something has to be off ... Would think a little more would be possible, though 275 ain't nothing to shake a stick at with how well I shoot it.

Did have a string replacement done, didn't have speed nocks when I got it back - but added them with the measurements I received from Bill ... so hopefully those are slowing it up any ... idk.

I know you can't always trust calculators, but if you use them as a guide this is what I was able to get based off these assumptions with the test.
6961
6962

skidge
08-11-2012, 05:31 PM
I have yet to see strings and cables come in the proper lengths and i doubt they were pulled off and checked. also, I have never seen a deer in New York care how fast it was missed!!

typically8
08-12-2012, 02:19 AM
If speed was really a big time deal, then the American Indians would of died out way before Columbus. I am just saying......

Thermodude
08-12-2012, 10:12 AM
Been following this one for ah few days and wanted to throw my two cents in. I admit to the claims that speed isnt the biggest factor when it comes to the killing ability of a bow and arrow combination......................but it does make a somewhat forgiving bow "alot" more forgiving and it also saves the day sometimes when your judgement of yardage isnt up to par. Ive owned speed bows in the past, two cam and one cam, some shot great others I didnt like at all. The fact of the matter is that people really do pay attention to all the hype thats out there about how fast a given bow will shoot........like it or not it is a big deal, it sells bows! If a bow dosnt perform the way its advertised then it shouldnt be advertised that way...................Im not talking about a super tuned bow, Im talking about a bow that your average Joe buys, sets up, takes home and shoots along with the proper arrows.......................it should at least come close to the IBO speed that its advertised to shoot. Ive tunned and shot my Pantera with the Fury XT cam many, many times with my chrono and the bottom line is...............if it ever does make IBO it will be at the low end of the scale. Because of what I use this bow for that does matter to me because its my 3D rig and I need all the points I can get. The bow is very accurate and I really do like the bow, does it perform the way I think it should........no, but it is what it is. Bottom line is , like it or not speed really does matter.

droppixel
08-12-2012, 09:55 PM
Speed tests of Bowhunting Word (August issue 2012 VOL 61 NO. 5):
Arrow weight 385 grains
Arrow @ 60 pounds 294 fps


This is what gets me. Even if my max was 60# (said before don't have a scale, so I don't know for sure - just going off the inspection card @ 64.4#) and shooting an arrow that is approx 10 grains lighter w/ whiskers, meta, loop find it hard to see how I am 20 fps under?

I'm more than pleased with the bow, honestly - but if I there is more that it can do I'd like to see it. Would an extra 20 come in handy in some spots, yeah I'm sure it would. Is it the end of the world if I never pick up that extra 20 or even 10 ... no.

WestMichiganBowhunter
08-13-2012, 08:00 AM
for the bow to only hit 280 fps in Petersons bow test with a 29 inch draw length and at 65lbs....
I thought it was slow....slower than the advertised rating of 320-330......

I think it's to slow and not accurate for the speed rating that Martin gives it....
will it kill deer.......yes, sure.

But the fact of the matter is that martins dont really ever hit there speed specs.....
I just felt dissappointed to see that in the bow review.
I was hoping that the 2012's were going to be more spot on with speed.
Maybe 2013 or 2014 will be. & as usual i will be waiting, and waiting to buy.

droppixel
08-13-2012, 09:14 AM
I'm sure they would make specs - would just like to see more information if possible on how to optimize the setup/tuning to do so. With the FuryXT - is there an optimal rotation for the cam, etc? I can't see them just arbitrarily slapping an IBO number on bows, there has to be a reason why they are advertised as such.

WestMichiganBowhunter
08-13-2012, 10:30 AM
I'm sure they would make specs - would just like to see more information if possible on how to optimize the setup/tuning to do so. With the FuryXT - is there an optimal rotation for the cam, etc? I can't see them just arbitrarily slapping an IBO number on bows, there has to be a reason why they are advertised as such.


i do believe this to be the case.................someway and somehow they have gotten those bows to do the advertised speed.....but you must have to do some serious tweaking!

Phantonza
08-16-2012, 01:36 AM
for the bow to only hit 280 fps in Petersons bow test with a 29 inch draw length and at 65lbs....
But the fact of the matter is that martins dont really ever hit there speed specs.....


That's not the case. See for example these reviews by Ike's Outdoors (Onza 3 and Rytera Alien XT):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNld32UWUgA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z_mo0u_7BM

droppixel
08-16-2012, 09:00 AM
The biggest thing we have seen, is the bows need to be set up as close to perfect as possible for them to make it. I think that is a fair assessment for a lot of bows. As seen by Bill's Need for Speed (http://martinarchery.com/mtechforum/showthread.php?24998-Need-for-speed!!!) thread he was able to pick up about 20fps just by doing some small adjustments here and there.

Thermodude
08-16-2012, 09:15 AM
The biggest thing we have seen, is the bows need to be set up as close to perfect as possible for them to make it. I think that is a fair assessment for a lot of bows. As seen by Bill's Need for Speed (http://martinarchery.com/mtechforum/showthread.php?24998-Need-for-speed!!!) thread he was able to pick up about 20fps just by doing some small adjustments here and there.

This is very true, I have worked part time in a local archery shop for many years and yes it takes alot of tweaking to get boys to shoot at their 100% potential. The problem is that most guys arent going to have access to or the knowledge of what to do in order to accomplish this. I would have liked to have veiwed the set up process that took place prior to the testing of the bows on the Utube videos. I have talked about my Pantera not meeting all my expectations many times, I still love the bow and its still one of the most accurate 3D rigs Ive ever owned. This winter Im going to do the same thing to it that Bill did to his bow.............Im going to supper tune it to see just what its capable of doing.

WestMichiganBowhunter
08-16-2012, 12:45 PM
That's not the case. See for example these reviews by Ike's Outdoors (Onza 3 and Rytera Alien XT):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNld32UWUgA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z_mo0u_7BM

yah i've seen these................the onzaIII finally hit it on the second attempt for testing and after someone at martin personally tuned them........

Really..........should one have to go thru the hoops, hurdles and expense of super tuning..........they really should be set to go right out of the box.
My mathews have always been within 2-3 fps out of the box......
same with my two Diamonds
My darton pro 3000........within spec.....

I don't think it unrealistic for a bow to be within spec out of the box.
I really think martin should do a birth certificate like diamond and bowtech have done.

Phantonza
08-16-2012, 03:12 PM
yah i've seen these................the onzaIII finally hit it on the second attempt for testing and after someone at martin personally tuned them........


The first time it wasn't tested according to IBO specs. Whether someone at Martin personally tuned the bow for the second attempt could be true of course, but there was no reference for that in the video. But it was a different version anyway (TRG removed and replaced with a conventional rod/slide), being close to 2012 model (I have a similar "intermediate model" myself, although a 60# version).

The Alien XT was almost 340 fps. Of course, it could have been "super tuned" before sending the bow to Ike, but even so, I wouldn't consider it faking.



Really..........should one have to go thru the hoops, hurdles and expense of super tuning..........they really should be set to go right out of the box.


I am quite sure that all manufacturers give the highest fps reading that the bow can be tuned to. If we have a look at the factory settings of the bow, my Hoyt CRX 32 had those much more off than the Onza (had to adjust both cam lean and timing for the Hoyt, while these were both perfect out of the box for the Onza). Setting cams in sync for Hoyt too and shooting a speed test gave pretty much equal result in my tests. CRX IBO is 323 fps and Onza's 330-340 fps, so Onza should have been faster, but it was actually 1 fps or so slower than the Hoyt (I tested at 56#, 400 grain arrows). But the accuracy of draw weight measurement is something I cannot be so sure about. Anyway, I was satisfied with the speed of Onza 3.

Phantonza
08-16-2012, 03:15 PM
As seen by Bill's Need for Speed (http://martinarchery.com/mtechforum/showthread.php?24998-Need-for-speed!!!) thread he was able to pick up about 20fps just by doing some small adjustments here and there.

Interesting. I should check that out!

Ehunter
08-16-2012, 05:23 PM
Another thing to consider is, the labor it costs to individually tune each bow to perfection. Can't do that as an assembly line set-up. I do think Martin might be able to hit it a little closer to perfect before they send them out, but realistically, the bows I have received have all been very close to spec, or right on. I just do alot of final tweaking to get the most I can out of them. I'd prefer to save the $3-400 and tweak them myself. Teaches me more about the bow and how it works. With the bows I have put a little time into, ALL of them hit IBO or better.
FC400 70# 28.25 true draw 386 gr. arrow @303fps
Onza III 70 same set up @ 302fps
Alien X 72# 28.25 draw 484 gr. arrow @ 302fps
Alien X 65# 386 gr. arrow @ 296fps
Old FC I had was 70# 386 gr. arrow @312 fps
That's at or above IBO on all those bows. Loop, peep, whiskers on every bow.

Phantonza
08-17-2012, 02:57 AM
Another thing to consider is, the labor it costs to individually tune each bow to perfection. Can't do that as an assembly line set-up. I do think Martin might be able to hit it a little closer to perfect before they send them out, but realistically, the bows I have received have all been very close to spec, or right on. I just do alot of final tweaking to get the most I can out of them. I'd prefer to save the $3-400 and tweak them myself.

That's a good point. BUT, I don't think other manufacturers tune their bows to perfection either. I have personal experience about Hoyt and lots of experience by my friends: not even close to perfection out of the box. Or the latest Bowtechs such as Invasion CPXL: you actually need to adjust the cams to a tilted position to tune the broadheads to the same point of impact with field tips!

droppixel
08-17-2012, 09:51 AM
I think with the Bengal all it is going to take is one person doing a really specific review on the bow and the tuning. Jim put together a really nice video with some of the basics on the Nemesis. I think once more people get their hands dirty with the bow and the Fury XT cam ... it will be a lot easier for people going forward. I know I plan to give mine a good look as soon as I can, most like after the season when I can really commit to it and put some new strings on and really see what this thing can do.

wannawhitetail
08-19-2012, 08:32 PM
I picked up a new '09 Firecat with Cat 2 cams. Set at 47 lbs, 28 inch draw, 360 gn. arrow, Specialty archery peep, 2 monkey tails, dloop and 1 brass nock, it was shooting 243 fps. I don't know what the accessories on the string weigh, but it seemed pretty to me. And that was out of the box.

WestMichiganBowhunter
08-20-2012, 07:55 AM
The first time it wasn't tested according to IBO specs. Whether someone at Martin personally tuned the bow for the second attempt could be true of course, but there was no reference for that in the video. But it was a different version anyway (TRG removed and replaced with a conventional rod/slide), being close to 2012 model (I have a similar "intermediate model" myself, although a 60# version).

The Alien XT was almost 340 fps. Of course, it could have been "super tuned" before sending the bow to Ike, but even so, I wouldn't consider it faking.



I am quite sure that all manufacturers give the highest fps reading that the bow can be tuned to. If we have a look at the factory settings of the bow, my Hoyt CRX 32 had those much more off than the Onza (had to adjust both cam lean and timing for the Hoyt, while these were both perfect out of the box for the Onza). Setting cams in sync for Hoyt too and shooting a speed test gave pretty much equal result in my tests. CRX IBO is 323 fps and Onza's 330-340 fps, so Onza should have been faster, but it was actually 1 fps or so slower than the Hoyt (I tested at 56#, 400 grain arrows). But the accuracy of draw weight measurement is something I cannot be so sure about. Anyway, I was satisfied with the speed of Onza 3.


If i recall in Ike's video he did mention that it was the second test and that someone at martin personally tuned it..........the 1st test it didn't come close to hitting IBO....
Atleast the 2nd test it hit IBO and it was a little quieter...etc..