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Petewp
01-02-2008, 12:09 PM
Wow heres a question I never seem to get a decent answer to. Whats the average group size at say , 50 yards with a middle of the line GOOD compound bow. Something like the Bengal or Cheetah.

I keep getting indirect answers like "Im breaking arrows at 40 yards".

LOL well fine, but you could do that with a 10" group size eventually.

What are you guys averaging at the 40-50 yard line with a hunting bow similar to the ones mentioned? Im still on the learning curve so Id be glad to hear what you guys are doing!

Pete

selil
01-02-2008, 01:20 PM
Wow heres a question I never seem to get a decent answer to. Whats the average group size at say , 50 yards with a middle of the line GOOD compound bow. Something like the Bengal or Cheetah.

I keep getting indirect answers like "Im breaking arrows at 40 yards".

LOL well fine, but you could do that with a 10" group size eventually.

What are you guys averaging at the 40-50 yard line with a hunting bow similar to the ones mentioned? Im still on the learning curve so Id be glad to hear what you guys are doing!

Pete

In the past this is what i've seen (I'm recovering from an injury so I get to re-learn a lot).

My group size at 50 meters with my Bengal, pins, a shorty stabilizer, is about the size of my palm. Sometimes a little bigger but not much. At 70 meters my pattern is a LOT bigger but about 20 inches across (my pin sight runs out of room after 50 meters). I would say you are looking at MY capability not the bows. My groups with my 8X scope and my slayer cranked up to 70#'s at 50 meters is about the size of a silver dollar just as an example.

bfisher
01-03-2008, 08:04 AM
Probably the reason you get such vague answers is because accuracy is more a functin of the archer's ability and not the bow. But that being said, if you can shoot pretty well you should be able to hold about 6" groups or so at 50 yards.

It will be easier with a longer A2A bow for sure. I don't shoot either of these bows simply because I don't care for ultra short bows, even with my 27" draw and 5'*' height. I do shoot the Pantera (2" longer) and when I'm having a good day I have shot sub-2" groups at 40 yards. Average days it'll be about 3-4" at 40 yards.

I don't do enough shooting at 50 anymore to give a definitive answer. The eyes are just too old for that stuff. Here again, it depends on YOUR ability.

Petewp
01-03-2008, 11:13 AM
I do shoot the Pantera (2" longer) and when I'm having a good day I have shot sub-2" groups at 40 yards. Average days it'll be about 3-4" at 40 yards.



I dont see the Pantera in their line up... is the Mystic comparable to that?
It seems like the Scepter is just too too over the mark for me budget wise. I cant dig up anything on the MYSTIC on google in so far as price - or even a review. Whats the price here? Is it anymore easier to shoot than the Bengal. Im set on the Bengal but if the Mystic is akin to the Pantera Id be interested in considering that. I dont care about blazing speed or vicious looking cams. I want a machine that is accurate - period. Or makes it come easier.

Can you give me the skinny on the Mystic? Is it a Scepter at a good price?

Should I stay with the Bengal?

Many thanks.


Pete

flytier17
01-03-2008, 12:35 PM
Scepter will be $800+. The Mystic won't be cheap either.

Pantera was discontinued as of this year. Comparable model is MOAB. Almost no difference. Pantera was 35".

I believe bfisher's Pantera has Nitrous Dual cams which will be more accurate than the M-Pro solocam. Tha Nitrous cams were also discontinued.

Scepter and Mystic are target bows, and thus very accurate, esp. with Furious-X cams. The Slayer and Firecat would be next on the list of accuracy due to their Hybrid cams, and level of engineering.

Lastly, I would choose the bows with a solocam. A solocam is not designed for X-ring precision, but rather for smootheness, and ease of adjustability.

bfisher
01-03-2008, 07:53 PM
Scepter will be $800+. The Mystic won't be cheap either.

Pantera was discontinued as of this year. Comparable model is MOAB. Almost no difference. Pantera was 35".

I believe bfisher's Pantera has Nitrous Dual cams which will be more accurate than the M-Pro solocam. Tha Nitrous cams were also discontinued.

Scepter and Mystic are target bows, and thus very accurate, esp. with Furious-X cams. The Slayer and Firecat would be next on the list of accuracy due to their Hybrid cams, and level of engineering.

Lastly, I would choose the bows with a solocam. A solocam is not designed for X-ring precision, but rather for smootheness, and ease of adjustability.


Alec has explained it pretty well. My choice in the 2008 lineup for a hunting bow would be the MOAB. I'm not real crazy about these ultra-short bows these days. I've been around a few decades and know what shoots the best.

That being said, I'm still waiting for my new FireCat. I get my bows for mostly 3D with hunting just a slight passtime. Afterall, there are 12 months in a year and hunting season is only in for 2 of them. And I shoot my bows on average 4 days a week all year long, except for the weeks I'm off scuba diving at some exotic island somewhere.

Besides, I have a 2005 ShadowCat SE that is my hunting bow. The Pantera was very similar to the MOAB, only two inches longer. Of course mine has Nitrous X camson it. I'm a speed freak and love the X system.

You know what else? This flytier17 guy is not 17 any more. He's really 19. I do have to give him his due. He's pretty articulate for his age and length of his shooting career. Take a hint Alec. Change the user name. Just ribbing ya.

Petewp
01-04-2008, 11:25 AM
Frankly I dont get the guys who get a bow for hunting ONLY. Wow talk about a short season.

The short bow thing.... I really dont get it. OK, its better in a ground blind and ok, less size, less opportunity to hang up on a twig during a stalk. It seems like a negligible thing tho. And too, you have these immense cams jutting out from either limb so its actual dimensions are still pretty steep regardless where the limb is. . I understand the geometry benefit of having the A@A greater, but Im speaking on compactness only. Itd be interesting to know what the dimensions on from cam tip to cam tip compared to the scepters or other target bows A2A.

Back to the season though - and sure after freezing for the season I guess its great to take a break, but to stop totally till late summer or fall. Even with rifles Id hit the range after season was over - oh heck - even while it was still going on.

Pete

Pete

bfisher
01-04-2008, 07:08 PM
Hey Pete,

Here in my neck of the woods our Winter 3D league (outside) starts right before Christmas. Our extended archery season starts the day after Christmas. That's one reason I have a dedicated 3D bow. It's either that or like in the past I set my bow up and super tune it to the gills till both field tips and broadheads shoot to the same POI.

There is no such thing as "the off-season". Off season is when I don't get to shoot my bows and that happens to fall in with the archery deer season.

J-Daddy
01-06-2008, 01:32 AM
Well if I'm shooting good on any given day at 50yds "with a hunting setup" I can normally pull off some 4" groups...If I'm not shooting good they'll open up to 7" or so most of the time. It all depends on me on a given day...Heck I've had a couple of good days and shot a 3" group at 80yds. That's not gonna happen very many times but it has happened before.
When the weather gets a little warmer here in Iowa and I get my new strings & cables in for my Slayer I'll let you know how it does out to 80yds in hunting trim.

flytier17
01-06-2008, 12:06 PM
Alec has explained it pretty well. My choice in the 2008 lineup for a hunting bow would be the MOAB. I'm not real crazy about these ultra-short bows these days. I've been around a few decades and know what shoots the best.

That being said, I'm still waiting for my new FireCat. I get my bows for mostly 3D with hunting just a slight passtime. Afterall, there are 12 months in a year and hunting season is only in for 2 of them. And I shoot my bows on average 4 days a week all year long, except for the weeks I'm off scuba diving at some exotic island somewhere.

Besides, I have a 2005 ShadowCat SE that is my hunting bow. The Pantera was very similar to the MOAB, only two inches longer. Of course mine has Nitrous X camson it. I'm a speed freak and love the X system.

You know what else? This flytier17 guy is not 17 any more. He's really 19. I do have to give him his due. He's pretty articulate for his age and length of his shooting career. Take a hint Alec. Change the user name. Just ribbing ya.

Ha-ha, WRONG!:D

I am still 17.

bfisher
01-06-2008, 02:55 PM
Ha-ha, WRONG!:D

I am still 17.

My bad. There's a guy on archerytalk with the name flytier19. I have mistaken you for him, apparently. Bad assumption on my part.

flytier17
01-07-2008, 01:15 PM
On AT, I am flytier18. On bowcountry, I am flytier19. On Spot-Hogg, I am flytier16.

I decided to get a new bow last year. I had just sold my Dren, because I wasn't happy with it. I had the Spot-Hogg sight, and I was 16. I have been tying flies for 9 years, and it is my greatest enthusiasm, along with archery. flytier16 was an unusual handle to go by. I turned 17. Then, I decided on, and ordered my slayer 2 weeks later. I joined the this forum as flytier17. Soon after, I joined AT, and thought it cool if I continued with flytier 18. And bcountry became 19.

I have not bothered wth AT because it is too busy to keep up with. No familiarity at all. I use the search function, but that is about it. I have not posted.

I know you on bcountry. We have shared a couple of pm's. Your sig says something about being a scuba diver as well. Interesting. I did a bit of snorkelling, and have always been interested by scuba.

So, that's me.

bfisher
01-07-2008, 05:45 PM
Yes Alec, I do dive a bit. Not near as much as I'd like. I'm totally a warm water diver and there isn't too much of that here in Pa. By warm water I mean about 77 degrees and warmer. To do that I have to travel to the tropics, which I do.

I go on group excursions with two different LDS' (local dive shop) with groups of anywhere from 6 to 24 people. We travel to such places as the Mexican Riviera, Cozumel, Roatan, Cayman Islands, Bahamas, Fiji, Australia, Florida, North Carolina, Saba and others. Oh, don't forget the Mediterranian where I satrted diving back in 1969.

Also we do what is called "live-aboard" trips were we stay on the some yacht all week long and do about five dives a day, moving from dive site to dive site during lunch and during the night. This is not on a cruise ship (cattle boat), but a yacht that is rigged up for hard core diving.

I personally go on about 6 to 8 trips a year. Usually each trip is a week in duration, but when going to the Pacific it's for two weeks.

Most trips cost about $2000 per week so it does get a might expensive, but most hobbies are expensive. And fun. And yes, I have had some nice, close encounters with dangerous marine life, including sharks. But it's fun, especially in the winter.

It's not hard to get into it. Look in the yellow pages for a shop and check one or two out. See about getting certified. Once you got your cert. it's good for life anywhere in the world. Most likely there is diving done somewhere near you. We're a crazy bunch.

Like you I'm on a bunch of forums. Those you mentioned and Huntingnet.com also. I keep the same user name on all but huntingnet where I'm BGfisher. Also on Bowsite, 3Dshoots and a couple scuba forums. In other words I'm quite a busy person with the computer.

flytier17
01-08-2008, 05:27 AM
Wow, sounds like you live an exciting life.

What's huntingnet like? Compared to bcountry. Bigger, smaller, more useful information, better or worse topics, etc...

I am thinking of joining another forum as flytier18 because I don't use AT.com, but would like another site to post on.

P.S. If you think I should change MY handle, well......., I wonder how many other people besides me assume that bfisher stands for bow-fisher!!! lol:D

bfisher
01-08-2008, 11:02 AM
I've been accused of it. I live only a couple miles gfrom the Susquehana River. Great for carp bowfishing, but alas, can't find the time what with all the traveling and 3D shooting.

flytier17
01-08-2008, 02:00 PM
I will be turning my old jennings into a fishshooter soon.

What's huntingnet like?

bfisher
01-08-2008, 07:37 PM
I will be turning my old jennings into a fishshooter soon.

What's huntingnet like?



I guess it's OK. There are a few guys on there that have been around a while and very knowledgeable. It does get bogged down once in a while with not much happening.

The hunting section gets it's share of "what's the best broadhead" questions. I usually don't participate too much in the hunting section. Hunting only comprises about 2 months of the year. There's just too much time during the rest of the year to be shooting, tuning, tinkering, and just learning more about equipment.

I think I've said it before. I'm not a bowhunter that shoots a few 3D's a year for hunting practice. I'm a shooter who takes a couple months a year off from shooting to hunt.

flytier17
01-09-2008, 05:39 PM
I am about 50/50. I love to hunt, and I love to shoot. If I was forced to make a choice between bowshooting, but no hunting, or hunting, but no bow, I would give up hunting. I haven't been able to participate in any tourneys yet, but I do love to tinker.

If I was more of a hunter, I'd probably be using a biscuit. However, my wammy has yet to let me down in the bush.

I want to get a Scepter in the next few years. I wonder when the S5 is coming? I think it sucks that Colorado was dropped. I like the black platinum though. With a silver Hoggernaut.................What more can I say!:cool:

If I were to get a scepter, would you recommend Furious X or Nitreous X and why?

bfisher
01-09-2008, 07:17 PM
You missed the boat on the S4. I had a brand new one a few months ago and had to sell it---$600. Never fired.

What would I shoot, given a choice. I really like the Nitrous X cams for the wall, the smooth rollover and speed. But I'd say in a target set up the Furious would prevail. They just have a slightly better valley and slightly smoother feel. Of course, there's less speed, but that what you pay for an easier drawing cam.

Besides, the Nitrous cams are out of production as of now. Sometimes I can't figure Martin out. All 4 of my bows, 3 camo and 1 target colored have the Nitrous X cams on them.

I guess we'll just have to see what the Cat cams can offer, but for a target bow I'll choose a pure dual cam every time. There's just more tuning options with them.

flytier17
01-11-2008, 04:22 PM
I feel the same about the cams. A hybrid won't have the same performance and tunability the dual has. I also will miss the "X" system on a hunting (speed) cam.

Does Rytera still offer the Nitrous?

bfisher
01-11-2008, 09:50 PM
Who knows? As of yet I haven't heard anything. The 2008 models will debut at the ATA show, being held this week. I wouldn't bet on the Nitrous being around. From all I've heard Martin has discontinued production of the Nitrous cams. "KAPUT". If you want a shoot through system you'll have to come up with some configuration that uses the newer Furious cam. Not as fast as the Nitrous but supposedly smoother draw and slightly longer valley with a rock-hard wall.

The S4 I sold was Furious cams. I wanted to shoot them for comparison so I got the bow. Due to health issues I never fired a shot from it.

flytier17
01-12-2008, 07:10 AM
Was it Colorado?

bfisher
01-12-2008, 05:41 PM
Chameleon. I'd really like to see them come out with a "black chrome".

flytier17
01-12-2008, 07:56 PM
That would have been my 2nd choice. I like the Black platinum this year. Whats up with the brushed platinum. Almost looks tan, or a dull silver.

I have always been an orange fanatic. When I do order my scepter, I will order it in orange. Maybe with chrome flames? And a silver Hoggernaut? What do you think of that?:cool:

Or maybe black platinum and chrome accents, silver Hoggernaut with gloss black knobs and accents, silver and black stabilizer, white and black strings, silver and black Spot-Hogg Infinity, maybe a silver overdraw?:cool:

I like to fantasize.............:rolleyes:

The S4 you sold; Furious, or Furious X? Also, what DL range? Peak weight?What were you going to put on it?

I just get a kick out of kicking myself for what I missed. (pardon the pun, not intended):)

bfisher
01-13-2008, 10:39 PM
The one I sold didn't have the X system. I had visions of changing it, but because I couldn't shoot it at the time I didn't see the sense.

I'm not sure about the Black Platinum. If it the same finish as on my P3?nitrousX then it'd be OK. The best color I think Martin ever had was a couple years ago. It was called Black Nickel. It was basically like chrome plating with a Nikel anodizing over the chrome----really sharp.

To each his own on color. Personally I abhor orange. It's the main reason I haven't had a gun out in almost 18 years. Got tired of fighting the "orange army" here in Pa. for a deer.

If you get a Scepter in orange I'd go with fl. orange and black strings. Go with a black riser and your string color choices are wide open.

OK, I'm an old guy and it's past my bedtime. Later

Barry

flytier17
01-15-2008, 09:19 AM
I tried to look at the old Martin websites. There was a link off last years website to the old pages. I cannot find this on this website. I was trying to find that finish.

I also looked at some of the videos, I liked the look of the shadowcat. What were the specs on it?