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View Full Version : The split decision...



wscywabbit
10-16-2012, 06:33 PM
So, just curious as to what the general consensus of the new quad limbs are. What are the pro's and con's in your opinion? I can't see Martin putting split limbs on the entire lineup of 2013 compounds, so the question is:

IF you were to purchase a 2013 Martin, would you be more interested in a solid or split limb configuration and why?

Hutch~n~Son Archery
10-16-2012, 07:02 PM
I believe a solid limb works well. But a split limb is quieter and all that I have had in the shop seem to be very smooth.






Hutch:cool:

boothill
10-16-2012, 08:03 PM
I like the split limb design personally but also with a yoke cable system. You can tune out the cam lean better in my opinion.

bob cooly
10-16-2012, 08:03 PM
One of Martins biggest draws is the ability to work on your bow without a bowpress and to actually get parts from the factory without driving 2 hrs to a bow shop that dosen't really want to work on or sell Martin Bows. KISS!!!!!!!
Speed and Quiteness are Not the most important things, my 2011 Onza is plenty quiet with nothing more than some whiskers on it.

Spiker
10-16-2012, 08:57 PM
I am going to get a '13 AX4 so at some point will have an in-depth review on it. :-)
I never have been much of a quad limb fan until about 6 months ago when I purchased
a Strother SX RUSH.
I have to admit that it is one of the best bows I've owned.
Martin took the Alien X, added the Saddleback grip, cleaned up the Hybrix cams, and went to
the split limb design which not only shaved a bit more weight off the bow but should eliminate
any limb issues and give it an even smoother/more consistent draw.
I think it's going to be really hard for anyone to top this in a hunting bow.

rnfrazier
10-16-2012, 09:42 PM
Not a fan of the split limb bows. If all of the line up is going to be split limb I will have to find an older bow. I like working on my own bow

SJunior
10-17-2012, 12:09 AM
I can't knock them til I've messed with them. Looking forward to shooting the Nemesis 35.

typically8
10-17-2012, 01:03 AM
Not me I want it simple. 2 limbs please. Why try and be like everyone else?

Tosi
10-17-2012, 08:05 AM
I've always been a solid limb fan. I sold a 2012 ONZA and purchased a 2013 Alpine Verdict with Split limbs. "I wanted a split limb bow". I guess I jump the gun and didn't think Martin would produce a split limb in 2013. I will say so far the Verdict is the quietest, best draw and back wall that I've owned so far. Not the fastest, but very very accurate so far. I have a lot more testing before I have competences in the bow on a hunt. But for now my Fire Cat 400 is still # 1, not the quietest but fast and accurate.

Durandal
10-17-2012, 10:36 AM
I think both designs have their positives and negatives. At the moment to truly be able to decide for or against I would have to try split limbs on my Scepter at the same weight. I have tried both split and solid limb bows before but them being of different makes, I would be reticent to make a comparison based on the limbs alone for obvious reasons.

From a marketing point of view, having more options is a boon for drawing in customers. So good luck Martin on this endeavour.

droppixel
10-17-2012, 10:37 AM
I'd like to see the rest of what is going to be available before I decide if I were to go with a split vs solid 2013 bow. I'd definitely like to look at the 2013s and consider purchasing one, but after receiving the Bengal this year, that might be hard to do.

WestMichiganBowhunter
10-17-2012, 01:59 PM
droppixel.........

if you sell your bengal...
let me know

Hutch~n~Son Archery
10-17-2012, 02:11 PM
droppixel.........

if you sell your bengal...
let me know

Me first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!










Hutch:cool:

alex
10-17-2012, 02:24 PM
One of Martins biggest draws is the ability to work on your bow without a bowpress and to actually get parts from the factory without driving 2 hrs to a bow shop that dosen't really want to work on or sell Martin Bows. KISS!!!!!!!
Speed and Quiteness are Not the most important things, my 2011 Onza is plenty quiet with nothing more than some whiskers on it.

x2
By the way I bet that the split limbs bow will stand alone in the Martin line for 2013.

droppixel
10-17-2012, 11:26 PM
Me first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!










Hutch:cool:

Since when did you become ambidextrous?

Spiker
10-17-2012, 11:49 PM
What makes ya'all think that you wont be able to back the limb bolts off enough to change strings on an X4.?

Double S
10-18-2012, 12:01 AM
I've never owned a split limb bow. I have nothing against split limbs, it just turned out that way. I trust that the smart folks with the fancy computers and machinery at Martin Archery know what they are doing. I am sure whether a person goes solid or split limbs will be more than satisfied with their purchase.

Variety is the spice of life!. I want both!.

spanner
10-18-2012, 04:43 AM
I have both types of bows my view on solid is that they have more resistance to torque less chance for it to have limb twist or cam lean , with a split limb bow other than a (dual cam) if a limb is not manufactured the same its more likely to have cam lean , with dual cam bows adjust yoke to allow for limb twist , on other split limb bows can only do that on one end to correct twist.Maybe Martin design a dual cam split limb bow and stick with solid limbs on hybrid and single cam bows.

bfisher
10-18-2012, 11:01 AM
Guess it's time for me to put in my opinion, and again, based on personal experience over the years. Although not the same brand I owned and shot split limbs from Golden Eagle (1997-1999)and Pearson (2000-2003).

I had two Golden Eagle Litespeeds. One with solid limbs and one with split limbs. Using a chrono I found their performance to be identical with the split limb being 1 fps faster on average. I did think the split limb performed with slightly less vibration and noise, but pretty imperceptable.

Pearson was a different story. Split was all they offered. These bows were an absolute dream to shoot. Fairly fast for their time, smooth, and very quiet. No complaints at all with the five bows I had over those three years. At the time I leaned heavily on wanting solid limbs, but over time I learned to appreciate each bow for what it was.

Now, drawing on this experience I would lean toward the split limb design. One reason is that I believe that given the amount of cam lean (limb twist) in today's shorter bows I think split limbs would be more reliable simply because as the limb do twist each side can do so independently of the other lessening the chance of limbs splitting in the middle. We all are aware of the issues of a couple years ago with the limb failures. Maybe this would alleviate it almost altogether.

Spanner brought up the thought of twisting a yoke to get rid of cam lean. The only problem with this is that with a single or binary cam system there is no yoke to twist. Even with a true dual cam system it's not the complete cure. At what point do you want to adjust for? At rest there is a certain amount of force applied to the string and cables. As the bow is drawn the force on the string transfers to the cables, so now the cables are holding most of the forces. On a bow with a cable guard this means that side torque increases. And it's not constant throughout the draw cyle. It's constantly changing till the bow is fully drawn so no matter whether cam lean is alleviated at rest or at full draw it has to be present somewhere in the draw cycle. It's never gone.

However, being as all Martin, and most other companies, are only offering solo or binary cams these days adjusting a yoke is a moot point.

Without having complete inside info I have a feeling that Martin's decision to go to a split limb design is not only for reliability, but also to make the bows more quiet as this has been an issue voiced by a lot of owners and prospective buyers. I have to commend them for listening to thepublic and having the where with all to try something different. I hope it works out and am sure that if it does then you will see more improvements over time.

droppixel
10-18-2012, 12:56 PM
droppixel.........

if you sell your bengal...
let me know

won't be until well after the season. will have to see what is out and available and evaluate what I'd like to do then, but I'll keep you in mind.

spanner
10-18-2012, 02:03 PM
Guess it's time for me to put in my opinion, and again, based on personal experience over the years. Although not the same brand I owned and shot split limbs from Golden Eagle (1997-1999)and Pearson (2000-2003).

I had two Golden Eagle Litespeeds. One with solid limbs and one with split limbs. Using a chrono I found their performance to be identical with the split limb being 1 fps faster on average. I did think the split limb performed with slightly less vibration and noise, but pretty imperceptable.

Pearson was a different story. Split was all they offered. These bows were an absolute dream to shoot. Fairly fast for their time, smooth, and very quiet. No complaints at all with the five bows I had over those three years. At the time I leaned heavily on wanting solid limbs, but over time I learned to appreciate each bow for what it was.

Now, drawing on this experience I would lean toward the split limb design. One reason is that I believe that given the amount of cam lean (limb twist) in today's shorter bows I think split limbs would be more reliable simply because as the limb do twist each side can do so independently of the other lessening the chance of limbs splitting in the middle. We all are aware of the issues of a couple years ago with the limb failures. Maybe this would alleviate it almost altogeth
Spanner brought up the thought of twisting a yoke to getd of cam lean. The onlyproblemwith this is that with a single or binary cam system there is no yoke to twist. Even with a true dual cam system it's not the complete cure. At what point do you want to adjust for? At rest there is a certain amount of force applied to the string and cables. As the bow is drawn the force on the string transfers to the cables, so now the cables are holding most of the forces. On a bow with a cable guard this means that side torque increases. And it's not constant throughout the draw cyle. It's constantly changing till the bow is fully drawn so no matter whether cam lean is alleviated at rest or at full draw it has to be present somewhere in the draw cycle. It's never gone.

However, being as all Martin, and most other companies, are only offering solo or binary cams these days adjusting a yoke is a moot point.

Without having complete inside info I have a feeling that Martin's decision to to a split limb design is not only for reliability, but also to make the bows moret as this has been an issue voiced by a lot of owners and prospective buyers. I have to commend them for listening to thepublic and having the where with all to try something different. I hope it works out and am sure that if it does then you will see more improvements over time.




Very true! It's a decision most buyers are faced with when buying a bow today.

alex
10-18-2012, 03:37 PM
What makes ya'all think that you wont be able to back the limb bolts off enough to change strings on an X4.?

I just have a feeling ;)
......Well, i've already written it in an older post, but will repeat it (I'm not bashing Martin and am not saying that the bow isn't good). The lower cost and the unique design of the X4 makes me think and i'm almost 100% sure that this a budget bow made in Taiwan and sold by Martin Archery. Perfect Line makes some bows for American companies using their design and after some years releases them as their own. The quality is quite good and the price is even better so whoever buys such a bow won't regret it.

TEN RING
10-19-2012, 09:55 AM
If I have a bow with split limb I want yokes to help cam lean, never was a big fan of split limb

wscywabbit
10-19-2012, 07:38 PM
Wow, quite a lot of varied responses here! I have personally not owned a split limb bow before, but I am a member of the KISS (keep it simple stupid) methodology, and in my mind quad limbs means more room for error or malfunction.

HOWEVER I do acknowledge that there are tons of bows on the market using quad limbs with little to no issues, so why not make an offering as well? I don't think my Onza is loud, but its definitely not the quietest I've seen. Perhaps a quad limb version would be quieter? IDK.

I would agree with others that I would have to see the same bow in both configurations to really tell which I prefer, or to see the benefits of one over the other. As Fisher points out, with the cams Martin produces, there is no "yoke" for adjustments on the dual cams, so I can't really see a benefit of one type of limb over the other unless it actually helps in noise reduction.

As for the thought on the Taiwan made bows, one of the things I like about Martin is that it is an American company, based and produced in the USA, I can't see them bringing in a foreign company to produce for them, and would be disappointed if they did....

jrnymanwv
10-19-2012, 09:36 PM
here is my take, Martin is going in a direction that they think is the best for them. I say go with it!! I am sure they tested and tested and there is a reason for going to quad limbs. I have and always will shoot a martin and i have never questioned there ability to make great bows. Yes they have had a few hiccups but what bow maker hasnt? if they never had flaws then they arent trying is what i say. I cant wait to see the new bows!! yes i am one that is wishing for a 65% let off. But, if it shoots and i like it i dont care about all that. God bless all Martin and those that build and service them!!!

droppixel
10-19-2012, 10:55 PM
here is my take, Martin is going in a direction that they think is the best for them. I say go with it!! I am sure they tested and tested and there is a reason for going to quad limbs. I have and always will shoot a martin and i have never questioned there ability to make great bows. Yes they have had a few hiccups but what bow maker hasnt? if they never had flaws then they arent trying is what i say. I cant wait to see the new bows!! yes i am one that is wishing for a 65% let off. But, if it shoots and i like it i dont care about all that. God bless all Martin and those that build and service them!!!

+1 - would like to give Mr. Lightfoot a good handshake some time ;) Did good with this Bengal!

Chip
10-20-2012, 05:19 AM
I just have a feeling ;)
......Well, i've already written it in an older post, but will repeat it (I'm not bashing Martin and am not saying that the bow isn't good). The lower cost and the unique design of the X4 makes me think and i'm almost 100% sure that this a budget bow made in Taiwan and sold by Martin Archery. Perfect Line makes some bows for American companies using their design and after some years releases them as their own. The quality is quite good and the price is even better so whoever buys such a bow won't regret it.

Hello alex, I did notice the Threshold riser looks just like a Perfect Line riser. I can't help but wonder if that isn't the case, only fitted with an M-Pro cam and Core Flex limbs.

elkslayer4x5
10-20-2012, 07:04 AM
Hello alex, I did notice the Threshold riser looks just like a Perfect Line riser. I can't help but wonder if that isn't the case, only fitted with an M-Pro cam and Core Flex limbs.

Would'nt be all that supprizing, the Asain manufacturing comminity is well know for their production of 'knockoffs'.

coastie hunter
10-20-2012, 02:01 PM
I just have a feeling ;)
......Well, i've already written it in an older post, but will repeat it (I'm not bashing Martin and am not saying that the bow isn't good). The lower cost and the unique design of the X4 makes me think and i'm almost 100% sure that this a budget bow made in Taiwan and sold by Martin Archery. Perfect Line makes some bows for American companies using their design and after some years releases them as their own. The quality is quite good and the price is even better so whoever buys such a bow won't regret it. If these bows are made in Taiwan martin will sink, that would be a very bad move. and I would like to know because if they are I will sell all my martins and go back to Hoyt our mathews our any thing made in america.

Phantonza
10-20-2012, 02:07 PM
Martin took the Alien X, added the Saddleback grip, cleaned up the Hybrix cams, and went to
the split limb design which not only shaved a bit more weight off the bow but should eliminate
any limb issues and give it an even smoother/more consistent draw.
I think it's going to be really hard for anyone to top this in a hunting bow.

Didn't quite get it - which factor would give the smoother/more consistent draw? I don't see the split limbs having any effect on this. Has the cam shape been modified for 2013?

alex
10-20-2012, 02:15 PM
What i've written is just a guess! I own 2-3 Perfect Line bows and like them a lot. Martin and other bow companies want to offer their customers a really affordable bow which simply can't be made in America, that's why they order it in Asia. If you don't want it get another American-made bow from their line (which is long enough by the way).

coastie hunter
10-21-2012, 09:24 AM
What i've written is just a guess! I own 2-3 Perfect Line bows and like them a lot. Martin and other bow companies want to offer their customers a really affordable bow which simply can't be made in America, that's why they order it in Asia. If you don't want it get another American-made bow from their line (which is long enough by the way). Martin has been making affordable bows for a long time they dont need another country to do it for them. Looking at those bows online I see no resemblence and I dont think martin would go that there.

bowgramp59
10-21-2012, 08:01 PM
Since when did you become ambidextrous?

i guess i'm ambidextrouus , i like both left & right handed dallas cowboy cheerleaders! as for the split limbs i have never owened one, but i'm thinking of looking at one .

dgmeadows
10-23-2012, 11:54 AM
I have a couple 1999 Rage XRG twin limb bows. Martin made a few models back in the late 90's with twin limbs, both straight and recurve "XRG". I personally like the twin limb a lot because of the wider profile - with a dual cam, it feels very stable and solid. I have converted the bows to shoot through Nitrous cams, and they shoot incredibly accurately for a short brace speed bow. My only issue with those bows is that the riser sight window is so short, but for my daughters, nieces and nephews they are the most accurate speed bow they can get.

I have actually considered taking the limbs and pockets off of one and putting on a longer riser to see what kind of tack driver I could make.

I have owned a LOT of Martin bows over the last 15 years. I never had a major limb problem, but did have a few develop the hairline crack in the middle of the Y. That I perceived to be an issue of the cam and string technology catching up to and surpassing the limb technology. When they went to the 13" thinner limbs with roto cups, I had a couple splinter on the outside edge. That I perceived to be simple QC issues. The PowerTough limbs seemed to be working well, but I have read lots of claims of Martin and Rytera being perceived as noisy compared to others.

I believe the twin limbs will help alleviate the irritating center crack issues, and should also help with noise and vibration dissipation. As referenced above, adding a true dual cam, shoot through cam option like the former NitrousX would make for one super-stable bow. I don't think we'll see a return of a shoot through system in 2013, but if we keep asking, maybe we will eventually get it (;-)

Chip
10-23-2012, 03:55 PM
In my opinion, I don't perceive my two Martin bows as loud. I subscribe to Outdoor life and they recently did a new bow shootout. They tested all the bows with a db meter and the other M bow, the lighter then air model was the loudest at 91 db. Most of the other bows ran from the high 70s to the high 80s. Martin did not have a bow in the shootout, but to be honest anything in the mid to high 80s can heard by a game animal from a fair distance I would say. I have never had a split limb bow, but I am sure not opposed to shooting one if I like the way it feels and shoots. For me shooting my bow is more about confidence in my ability to place my shots were I want them then what a bows features are. If I am not shooting lights out then I am doing something wrong or different, so my vote goes to whatever Martin uses as long as it's reliable.