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Rootsy
11-09-2012, 10:40 AM
I have been throwing arrows with the same bow since 2001 and I have finally made up my mind that it is time for a new bow. I just can't decide what is right for me. Martin has so many options that sorting everything out is a handful. Martin has treated me with nothing but pleasure and success since the late 80's (started with a Nugent Pro Safari) and I see no real reason to go any other direction. I am now looking to replace my Cougar 2000 with something more modern. The new bow has to be something well rounded as I hunt, shoot indoor and outdoor league and 3D. I've been trying to find a shop within a reasonable distance that stocks Martin products but thus far I am coming up short as the closest options only stock one or two Martins and order everything else. Heck I've searched most of Michigan dealers listed as Martin Pro-Shops and no one stocks much if anything. Unfortunate as I'd like to fondle before I purchase, obviously. Worst case I guess I buy online and hope for the best.

Right now I've been contemplating a Cougar FC (Or 2011 Firecat 400) or an Alien Ultralight (or 2011 Alien X). I may receive some criticism but the bridged risers just haven't grown on me, at least visually, so I am looking to stay with a straight riser setup. I am 5' 7" with a DL between 27 and 28 inches. The Cougar 2000 is set at 62 lbs, 28 inches and 65%.

Enlightenment please?

Arrow Splitter
11-09-2012, 02:44 PM
Welcome to the forum Rootsy.

I fairly recently got a parallel limb bow myself, the 2011 Firecat 400. I am very impressed with how it shoots. Here's the the link to my full review:CLICK HERE (http://martinarchery.com/mtechforum/showthread.php?25126-%28Another%29-2011-Martin-Firecat-400-review)
I can't speak for the Alien, but I've heard that it shoots well, and others on here have shot and/or own them.

The bottom line is you'll probably be very impressed with either one, because you aren't shooting a parallel limb bow right now. The limb angle really makes a difference.

A.S

Hutch~n~Son Archery
11-09-2012, 03:14 PM
Ahh your on Roosty, welcome aboard.




Hutch:cool:

Rootsy
11-09-2012, 06:31 PM
Thanks for the welcome. I had the opportunity to shoot a Firecat 400 tonight and it was simply awesome. I also shot a warthog that was there to see how a longer ATA felt. Speed compared to my old cougar 2000 - no comparison. Received a fair quote (I think anyway) on a cougar fc 60 lb nitro from them.

Managed to locate a dealer with a few Alien Z and X models in stock so I am headed to Detroit tomorrow to put a few arrows through them. They are priced for clearance and the price of a setup X may simply be too good to pass up.

Those Nitro 2 cams sure have a heck of a hill compared to my old z cams with my bow and the Firecat both at 60 lbs.

I have not been excited about shooting a bow for a couple of years but shooting modern technology has me exited to actually put arrows down range.

Arrow Splitter
11-09-2012, 06:42 PM
Those Nitro 2 cams sure have a heck of a hill compared to my old z cams with my bow and the Firecat both at 60 lbs.

I have not been excited about shooting a bow for a couple of years but shooting modern technology has me exited to actually put arrows down range.x2 for both statements. I did notice the hill before letoff on my Firecat, but I like how fast the arrow leaves the string.:cool:

A.S

Hutch~n~Son Archery
11-09-2012, 07:07 PM
Thanks for the welcome. I had the opportunity to shoot a Firecat 400 tonight and it was simply awesome. I also shot a warthog that was there to see how a longer ATA felt. Speed compared to my old cougar 2000 - no comparison. Received a fair quote (I think anyway) on a cougar fc 60 lb nitro from them.

Managed to locate a dealer with a few Alien Z and X models in stock so I am headed to Detroit tomorrow to put a few arrows through them. They are priced for clearance and the price of a setup X may simply be too good to pass up.

Those Nitro 2 cams sure have a heck of a hill compared to my old z cams with my bow and the Firecat both at 60 lbs.

I have not been excited about shooting a bow for a couple of years but shooting modern technology has me exited to actually put arrows down range.
Take a deeeeeeeeeeeeep breath! you'll be okay as soon as you shoot every bow you see!


Hutch:cool:

Rootsy
11-09-2012, 07:35 PM
I am not sure my shoulders could handle that! I did look over all of the big 4 offerings and nothing excited me really. Those Matthews could double as a french fry cutter though.

Arrow Splitter
11-09-2012, 07:37 PM
Those Matthews could double as a french fry cutter though.I like Matthews, but that's funny! LOL:D:D

A.S

Hutch~n~Son Archery
11-09-2012, 07:41 PM
I am not sure my shoulders could handle that! I did look over all of the big 4 offerings and nothing excited me really. Those Matthews could double as a french fry cutter though.

Yep that was funny! Wheres the fries?






Hutch:cool:

Money Man
11-09-2012, 08:45 PM
I just upgraded my 2002 Cougar to a 2012 Alien X. I went to the shop interested in the Cougar FC also, and he had just sold the last one. He said it would be a couple weeks before he would have another. He had a bunch of X's, so I shot one and could not imagine shooting another bow that would feel any better than this thing.

WildWilt15
11-09-2012, 08:57 PM
Go with the alien z! Perfect all purpose bow oh and welcome!

Double S
11-09-2012, 10:03 PM
Welcome to the forum Rootsy!. Martin has some great bows with top notch customer service to back it up. I myself have a Scepter V and a 2011 Nemesis. If your looking for an all around bow...take a look at the nemesis if they have it when you head over to Detroit. I love the crap out of mine. I'm not even gonna buy a 2013 Compound for my self, just one for my son. I believe the 2013 Nemesis 35 is a single piece riser, it's comfortable to shoot. I'm in the same boat as you. I live out in the country. My nearest Martin dealer in 90 miles one way and most of the time the bow you want is purchase first then you get to try it. It's a small Shop and it'd hard for them to carry a large inventory but their customer service and shop manners are great.

Whatever Martin bow you choose I'm sure you'll be very happy with the purchase. Welcome again to the forum.

Simon

elkslayer4x5
11-10-2012, 07:38 AM
Welcome to the site, glad you joined us here. :)

bob cooly
11-10-2012, 08:34 AM
Martin's 2103 lineup looks really good, they seem to have listened that not everyone wants a 29" bow. They have bows that run 34-40", while most everyone is shortening thier's up. Friend of mine who is 6'4" bought a Mission Craze that is just plain too short for him and the Mathews dealer setup was horrible. Living in the sticks does suck when it comes to being able to handle or shoot a given bow. My advice is to find someone in your local archery club that has a Martin model you are interested in and at least handle one. My self I love my 2011 Onza and would love a new Nemisis, at 35" and 50lbs it would be the cats meow. I have thought about a garage dealership, stock one of every model in a light draw weight and let the customer order their own drawweight. It sure might solve the lack of shops that will stock bows in rual area's.

Rootsy
11-10-2012, 04:29 PM
Shot an Aliens X and a Z today. Both 2011 models made in 2010 with Barnsdale limbs. Brought the Z home with me. I like the longer ATA of the Z. I have it set to the shortest draw of 28 inches which fits me well. Has 45 to 60 limbs and low 50s is comfortable.

Now i just have to dress it and get some ammo. Time to read up on all of this new fangled gagetry. Opinions?

TEN RING
11-10-2012, 06:02 PM
welcome to the forum rootsy

Arrow Splitter
11-10-2012, 09:48 PM
Shot an Aliens X and a Z today. Both 2011 models made in 2010 with Barnsdale limbs. Brought the Z home with me. I like the longer ATA of the Z. I have it set to the shortest draw of 28 inches which fits me well. Has 45 to 60 limbs and low 50s is comfortable.

Now i just have to dress it and get some ammo. Time to read up on all of this new fangled gagetry. Opinions?OK, you've already broken the rules. Around here it's pictures or nothing happened. LOL :p

Now as far as the accessories are concerned, it's going to be ultimately up to you. This is where personal preference really comes in. Dropaway rests work well, but so do the non-drop styles.

You may have to try a few different sights to find the one you like. I found that five vertical pins blocked my view at longer yardages, so I went to a single vertical pin and now five horizontal pins.

Hope this helps.

A.S

Spiker
11-10-2012, 10:36 PM
The Alien Z is one of the best all around bows ever made.!
Congratulations.!

WildWilt15
11-10-2012, 10:41 PM
Congrats still waiting on those pictures!!

WildWilt15
11-10-2012, 10:45 PM
And if your shooting indoo,r outdoor, and hunting i recommend an HHA sight slider or dial, you can get whatever size pin you wan,t the sight tapes are very accurate, it accepts a lens kit if you wanna get really into it, and its reasonably priced for a solid, well built, american made product with a company that backs their product up like martin.

elkslayer4x5
11-11-2012, 07:13 AM
Nice selection, a lot of happy Z owners out there. Another happy group are all the people who shoot with HHA's sliders, quite a few on this site do. Other great brands as well. Sliders have a single pin and offer an otherwise unobstructed view of your target.

Rootsy
11-11-2012, 04:50 PM
Photos coming. Bought some ammo and the rest to dress it today. I put a limb driver pro V on it but i am not sure i like it. It realy rings and the vertical string is close to the CCS and the Copper John sight. Tossed a few arrows tonight to get a quick feel. Just have to tune it and get a new release if I am going to shoot a D loop. My old tru fire is a close on contact type for strings.

Is it just me or are the Hybrix limbs steeper than the Nitro 2 cams? Same poundage and these Hybrix seem to really require me to put me into getting them up to the plateau.

On a separate note, what would I give up by going with nitro 1.5 vs 2.0 on say a cougar? Is there a good discussion on it here?

What is the best layout for a d loop? Serving sets inside so you don't pinch the knock?

Double S
11-11-2012, 06:16 PM
http://archeryhistory.com/archerytalk/The_Nuts&Bolts_of_Archery.pdf
The link above is from a thread on Archerytalk by nuts and bolts. I think it's a must have download for any archer. It's free. Download it and buy a cheap binder and keep it for reference. I think everything Archery related is in it.

check out theses links on D loops. theres links in it on how to tie D loops.

http://archeryreport.com/2012/01/bowstring-dloops-torqueless-loops-variations-advantages-disadvantages/

How to tie a D loop.
http://archeryreport.com/2011/12/how-to-make-install-d-loop/

Money Man
11-11-2012, 09:08 PM
http://archeryhistory.com/archerytalk/The_Nuts&Bolts_of_Archery.pdf
The link above is from a thread on Archerytalk by nuts and bolts. I think it's a must have download for any archer. It's free. Download it and buy a cheap binder and keep it for reference. I think everything Archery related is in it.


I downloaded the nuts & bolts and put it on my kindle, so I always have it to refer to. It is a pdf file, so it works on the kindle.

Double S
11-12-2012, 10:10 AM
I downloaded the nuts & bolts and put it on my kindle, so I always have it to refer to. It is a pdf file, so it works on the kindle.



Fantastic!. I have it in a binder and on my laptop.

Rootsy
11-12-2012, 11:31 AM
Looks like i am going to be the care taker of a 2012 Cougar FC 60lb RH Nitro 1.5 cams next G1 camo in a few weeks. Not that i need two bows but what the heck. Did some horse trading and my dealer gave me an attractive price so this one didn't cost me anything out of pocket. Martin has to build it so it will be a few weeks in arriving.

What will i be giving up going with the 1.5 vs 2.0 cams, all else being equal. I went with 1.5 cams so i could be in the middle of the dl range rather than right at the bottom of adjustment.

Rootsy
11-12-2012, 07:05 PM
Photos of the Z.

http://jarootfarms.com/photogallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG_8035.jpg

http://jarootfarms.com/photogallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG_8039.jpg

http://jarootfarms.com/photogallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG_8043.jpg

Arrow Splitter
11-12-2012, 07:08 PM
Very nice looking bow Rootsy.:cool:

Rootsy
11-12-2012, 07:12 PM
http://archeryhistory.com/archerytalk/The_Nuts&Bolts_of_Archery.pdf
The link above is from a thread on Archerytalk by nuts and bolts. I think it's a must have download for any archer. It's free. Download it and buy a cheap binder and keep it for reference. I think everything Archery related is in it.

check out theses links on D loops. theres links in it on how to tie D loops.

http://archeryreport.com/2012/01/bowstring-dloops-torqueless-loops-variations-advantages-disadvantages/

How to tie a D loop.
http://archeryreport.com/2011/12/how-to-make-install-d-loop/

Thanks for the links. They have helped immensely. Shooting better already.

Double S
11-12-2012, 10:45 PM
Thanks for the links. They have helped immensely. Shooting better already.


That's a good looking bow Rootsy. There's a tone of info that I'm still absorbing even to this day. N & B keeps updating it too. So check out the thread from time to time for updates. Another good download is the Easton arrow tuning and Maintenance guide. Thanks for the pics...we love pics. We wish you the best.

http://www.eastonarchery.com/img/downloads/software/tuning_guide.pdf

coastie hunter
11-13-2012, 11:22 AM
nice bow I am going to shoot the new 2013 today. I will report later!

Lung Buster
11-13-2012, 12:14 PM
Congrats on the new bow and best of luck with it! Oh yeah welcome to the forum!

Rootsy
11-14-2012, 06:30 AM
I really am liking this AZ. Was playing with nock sets, d-loops and tying some different knots to serve as kissers last night. Decided to break out the chronograph (Shooting Chrony Beta). 28" draw (cams set in hole #1 - short as she'll go), 4 turns out on the 60 lb limbs (50 - 52 lbs??? - Barnsdale 155 marked), Hybrix 2.0 cams, CE Maxima Hunters (340 grains with points) - I was consistently 268 +/- 2 fps through the chronograph a foot in front of the riser. Plugging that in puts her between 330 and 335 IBO.

Wish it wasn't so bloody cold out so I could tune it at some distance. I can only manage 10 yds in the basement.

She isn't overly "loud" but there is some resonance after the shot in the riser. Need to setup a microphone to record it so I can play it back. It is difficult to listen to it when shooting short range. That arrow hitting the Block is loud.

longdrawdan
11-18-2012, 05:41 PM
hey rootsy i had the same problem in ma. only one dealer that dosen't stock much of anything.i took a chance and bought a pantera on ebay,i lucked out but buying a bow is like buying a car you want to take it around the block a few times to try it out,but a bow is much more important!!!!:)

Rootsy
11-24-2012, 08:30 PM
Picking up the 2012 Cougar FC tomorrow. Have been tweaking the AZ a bit and have it shooting 275. Wonder how the FC will measureq up.

One thing I have discovered is that more than 3 turns out on the limbs and it is very inconsistent through the chrono. Cranked her up to two turns out and it went from +/- 3 fps to +/- 0.2 fps. Quieted down also.

Spiker
11-24-2012, 10:45 PM
Yer AZ is right in there. Mine at 52.5#, 29", with a 346gn arrow does 275.5 consistantly...

Rootsy
11-25-2012, 01:27 PM
Going to have to wait a while longer for the Cougar. Wrong bow in wrong box apparently so somewhere out there someone has my bow. My dealer got things squared away with Joel today (Nitro 1.5s and all) and hopefully I will have her soon. I would have thrown cloaked cams into the mix but I seemed to be creating enough confusion as it is with this custom spec package.

I am just excited about getting the FC. Just something about the Cougar that I like and I cannot exactly put my finger on it. I am in lust with my AZ and I think the slimmer grip may be what the real winner is. Especially with my smaller hands.

I need to apologize for being so negative.