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View Full Version : Going on my THIRD set of limbs since June



WildWilt15
12-03-2012, 06:29 PM
I bought my Onza new in early june, and in august i suffered from severe cam lean and cracked limbs both top and bottom i sent it in and got it back mid September. With no more 3D shoots it was time to set it up for hunting. I put about 50-75 shots through it setting it up but it didn't feel like the bow i previously owned it was substantially slower and louder, which i still could never figure out cam timing was perfect and specs were all right. My Hammerhead strings had stretched prior to sending it in which martin replaced even though they didn't have to which i was greatly thankful for, but after getting it all set up for the woods i noticed severe serving wear on the new cables from my modules which had been replaced due to bolts being to tight to loosen, I wasnt going to mess with it until after season i figured it could make it through to shoot a couple deer, so now that my season is over i went to go file down the medal burs in my modules and found out my new limbs were cracked and my draw stop was rubbing on my limb every shot which actually took the paint off i do not know what would cause this problem but i know it is a problem.. lol anyway just letting it all out on here because i feel i should not have gone through this many problems on a bow that's just barely 6 months old, My dealer is about an hour away and last time i took my bow there he was not happy and hard to deal with so Im going to try and call Martin tomorrow at lunch and find out what can be done I feel as though i have suffered from every problem in the book you hear about on these forums. From my grip leather bunching up and side plate falling out to cracked limbs, cam lean so bad the side of the cam hits the limbs on the shot etc. Love the bow, Hate the problems i take great care of my equipment better then 99 percent of archers i know but Im giving Martin one more chance to make my bow right if not ill pass it on and look elsewhere, but Martins customer service i feel can pull through for this long time martin shooter, Hell only other bow company i have had a taste of was a Darton for 2 weeks which turned into another martin.
Sorry for the long Rant, Tom

WildWilt15
12-03-2012, 06:32 PM
Oh and just to answer any future questions about arrow weight my hunting arrows are 396 grains out of a 60 pound bow so I feel it is not the arrows My 3d arrows were 378 grains.

elkslayer4x5
12-04-2012, 08:30 AM
I think you're right and Martin customer service will take care of you. Thats an awfull lot of problems on a new bow.

bob cooly
12-04-2012, 09:32 AM
Call Joel: Explain what you have experienced, send it in, if you can, yourself. I did so with mine and recieved a new bow. Be polite but firm. Hope all turns out well.

WildWilt15
12-04-2012, 10:23 AM
I'll be calling there customerservice shortly

coastie hunter
12-04-2012, 10:24 AM
sorry for all you problems.

WildWilt15
12-04-2012, 10:42 AM
Just had a pleasant conversation with Joel, bow will be getting shipped out tomorrow and were gonna go from there it is going to be about a 7 business day trip there and back at the most probably right around 5 hopefully I can have it back issue free for the rest of the time I own it.

coastie hunter
12-04-2012, 12:05 PM
good deal:cool:

daiwateampenn
12-04-2012, 05:44 PM
looking forward to see some good update...

wscywabbit
12-05-2012, 03:34 PM
That sucks Wilt. Keep us informed on how it shakes out after you get it back. We all know CS and Joel will take care of you, but we like details! ;)

WildWilt15
12-05-2012, 04:41 PM
Shipped the bow out the ETA is Tuesday I hope to have it back before the holidays but we will see!

Thermodude
12-06-2012, 10:45 AM
Hate to hear about the problems man.................good luck!

WildWilt15
12-06-2012, 11:14 AM
Thanks it sucks but it happens to the best of us I guess

coastie hunter
12-06-2012, 12:49 PM
Those binarys have always scared me. I quess I am partial to single cams, although I do like a good olf fashioned dually.

WildWilt15
12-06-2012, 01:09 PM
Do you think it is the binary cams that cause to much stress on the limbs? My 09 Cheetah never had limb issues.

WildWilt15
12-11-2012, 06:03 AM
It arrived in WA this morning should be in walla walla soon!

bfisher
12-11-2012, 06:29 AM
Do you think it is the binary cams that cause to much stress on the limbs? My 09 Cheetah never had limb issues.

It's not so much whether it's binary or single cams. It's the constant twisting of the limb tips and the shorter the bow the more severe the twist is. Limbs are designed primarily to move back and forth, not twisted around in circles. So long as bows are designed with a cable rod and as cams become larger, imparting more leverage, there will continue to be such issues, especially with longer draw lengths.

WildWilt15
12-11-2012, 12:16 PM
It's not so much whether it's binary or single cams. It's the constant twisting of the limb tips and the shorter the bow the more severe the twist is. Limbs are designed primarily to move back and forth, not twisted around in circles. So long as bows are designed with a cable rod and as cams become larger, imparting more leverage, there will continue to be such issues, especially with longer draw lengths.

Never thought of it like that.. You think bows with a double yoke system would help with this and be slightly more reliable?... But the bow arrived in Walla Walla going to give customer service a call tomorrow and find out exactly what the plan of action is and ill give an update sometime tomorrow.

bfisher
12-11-2012, 04:59 PM
Never thought of it like that.. You think bows with a double yoke system would help with this and be slightly more reliable?... But the bow arrived in Walla Walla going to give customer service a call tomorrow and find out exactly what the plan of action is and ill give an update sometime tomorrow.

I might be misinterpretting what you mean, but the Onza doesn't have a yoke system, but even with yoke cables the limb would still get twisted as the bow is drawn. With any kind of fixed cable rod/slide there's no getting around it. That's one of the reasons Martin came out with the TRG a couple years ago and Bowtech now has their Flex Guard. The idea is for the cables to move closer to the bow's center as the bow is drawn which reduces the side load on the limbs.

Martin used to have an X system on the Fury, Nitrous, and Furious cam which alleviated any and all cam lean (limb twist) that used 4 cables and the string. The arrow was shot between the cables. It was never all that popular with the hunting crowd because most couldn't adjust their pea brains to using it. Most comments I always read made statements about loading a broadhead arrow between the cables and possibly cutting one or more. If some had tried it they'd have learned that you load the arrow from the front and back the nock between the cables and onto the string (a couple inches). It was arguably the best and most efficient cam system (especially the Nitrous) ever engineered. Completely eliminated the cable rod/slide.

Anyway, I rant too much. Hope they figure out your bow. I'm sure you'll keep us posted.

Barry

Lab Rat
12-11-2012, 07:32 PM
What was the best shoot thru setup that Martin had? Were the Nitrous cams fast? I have no idea why they wouldn't offer this type of cam system on their longer target bows. I put a tilt tamer on my Alien Z to remove the side torque and it works pretty well, but the shoot thru would completely eliminate it. The cable guard was terrible in a number of respects since it was stationary and was positioned way to close to the riser for someone with a 30.5" draw. If you watch the flexguard video on Bowtech's website they use a laser during the draw cycle to show that the flexguard eliminated around 1/2 of the nock travel. I don't think that they went far enough. Why not eliminate all of the nock travel and torque? Is there any way to convert the hybrix cams to shoot through?

WildWilt15
12-11-2012, 08:07 PM
I might be misinterpretting what you mean, but the Onza doesn't have a yoke system, but even with yoke cables the limb would still get twisted as the bow is drawn. With any kind of fixed cable rod/slide there's no getting around it. That's one of the reasons Martin came out with the TRG a couple years ago and Bowtech now has their Flex Guard. The idea is for the cables to move closer to the bow's center as the bow is drawn which reduces the side load on the limbs.

Martin used to have an X system on the Fury, Nitrous, and Furious cam which alleviated any and all cam lean (limb twist) that used 4 cables and the string. The arrow was shot between the cables. It was never all that popular with the hunting crowd because most couldn't adjust their pea brains to using it. Most comments I always read made statements about loading a broadhead arrow between the cables and possibly cutting one or more. If some had tried it they'd have learned that you load the arrow from the front and back the nock between the cables and onto the string (a couple inches). It was arguably the best and most efficient cam system (especially the Nitrous) ever engineered. Completely eliminated the cable rod/slide.

Anyway, I rant too much. Hope they figure out your bow. I'm sure you'll keep us posted.

Barry

Yes I know the onza doesn't have a yoke system I was talking in general, but those are some interesting facts sounds like Martin could benefit greatly from experimenting with a flex type cable containment system. Also I understand why the quad limbs should help reduce the amount of limb problems.

bfisher
12-12-2012, 09:18 AM
What was the best shoot thru setup that Martin had? Were the Nitrous cams fast? I have no idea why they wouldn't offer this type of cam system on their longer target bows. I put a tilt tamer on my Alien Z to remove the side torque and it works pretty well, but the shoot thru would completely eliminate it. The cable guard was terrible in a number of respects since it was stationary and was positioned way to close to the riser for someone with a 30.5" draw. If you watch the flexguard video on Bowtech's website they use a laser during the draw cycle to show that the flexguard eliminated around 1/2 of the nock travel. I don't think that they went far enough. Why not eliminate all of the nock travel and torque? Is there any way to convert the hybrix cams to shoot through?

I only wish there was a way to make the Hybrix a shoot through. As for the Nitrous being fast? Let me put it this way. My first bow with Martin was a 2004 SlayR, IBO rated at 325 fps with C base cams. The Nitrous came in three different sizes to cover the draw length range. Mine had B cams to accommodate my 27" draw. Set up at 27.5" and shooting a 275 gr arrow at 53# that sucker shot a chronographed speed of 308 fps. At 27" it shot 299 fps. By comparison my Nemisis and Alien Z, rated at 335 and 330 respectively chrono in the 270 to 275 range shooting that same arrow. Makes me wonder just how much things have really improved over the last few years.

The Nitrous X system had a module on each side of the base cam. The cam was positioned in the middle of the limb fork and right down the center of the riser. Everything centered. There was about 1 1/2" between the cables, but if more was needed there was (is) a kit with longer axles (3 1/4") and spacers. Cables attached to one cam and attached to the opposite limb tip; two on each side. There was a following mostly among target shooters; not so much from bowhunters.

If a person didn't want to use X cables all that was needed was a pair of split (yoke) cables and a cable rod/slide and he'd end up with a standard setup. X system made it very easy to setup and tune (no mechanical torque). Some people even found that they could change or adjust cables by just pulling the cable on the opposite side of the limb toward the riser, unhook the one needing attention, and adjust or replace it. No bow press needed or turning out the limb bolts. I also might add that there were, at least to my knowledge, virtually no limb problems even though the limb tips were not reinforced.

Alas, this cam system was done away with after only 4 years (2004-2007) and replaced by the Cat cams and sorely missed by many, myself included.

bob cooly
12-12-2012, 09:52 AM
I have a 2010 Diamond Iceman with the flex guard. bow is a shooter for sure, but hard on cables. I'm not convinced about the flexdeal on Martin bows, I remember the TRG/STS too well. I like what pse has done on their new bows. I am beginning to think buying a last year model of whatever bow has the least amount of problems is really the only way to go. Let the people with lots of cash be the testers for us on fixed, er diminishing incomes. For now I'll stick with what works, a carbon rod and slide.

WildWilt15
12-12-2012, 10:05 AM
I have a 2010 Diamond Iceman with the flex guard. bow is a shooter for sure, but hard on cables. I'm not convinced about the flexdeal on Martin bows, I remember the TRG/STS too well. I like what pse has done on their new bows. I am beginning to think buying a last year model of whatever bow has the least amount of problems is really the only way to go. Let the people with lots of cash be the testers for us on fixed, er diminishing incomes. For now I'll stick with what works, a carbon rod and slide.

A buddy of mine shoots a bowtech sentinel with a flex guard and hasn't had any troubles with it and his bow is definatly a shooter. I found with the long axle to axle of my shadowcat it has minimal cam lean if any obviously because the amount of side torgue on the cables is minimized with the longer string travel. I also found out that my accuracy at 20 yards and closer with the shadowcat is substantially better. And I like how my pin lines up with my rest, unlike the onza which is left because of cam lean the pin is substantially left of center.

WildWilt15
12-12-2012, 01:11 PM
Well just called Martin and my bow is there, but they won't know the "plan of action" until early next week when it is checked into the repair department.

Spiker
12-12-2012, 10:06 PM
I only wish there was a way to make the Hybrix a shoot through. As for the Nitrous being fast? Let me put it this way. My first bow with Martin was a 2004 SlayR, IBO rated at 325 fps with C base cams. The Nitrous came in three different sizes to cover the draw length range. Mine had B cams to accommodate my 27" draw. Set up at 27.5" and shooting a 275 gr arrow at 53# that sucker shot a chronographed speed of 308 fps. At 27" it shot 299 fps. By comparison my Nemisis and Alien Z, rated at 335 and 330 respectively chrono in the 270 to 275 range shooting that same arrow. Makes me wonder just how much things have really improved over the last few years.

The Nitrous X system had a module on each side of the base cam. The cam was positioned in the middle of the limb fork and right down the center of the riser. Everything centered. There was about 1 1/2" between the cables, but if more was needed there was (is) a kit with longer axles (3 1/4") and spacers. Cables attached to one cam and attached to the opposite limb tip; two on each side. There was a following mostly among target shooters; not so much from bowhunters.

If a person didn't want to use X cables all that was needed was a pair of split (yoke) cables and a cable rod/slide and he'd end up with a standard setup. X system made it very easy to setup and tune (no mechanical torque). Some people even found that they could change or adjust cables by just pulling the cable on the opposite side of the limb toward the riser, unhook the one needing attention, and adjust or replace it. No bow press needed or turning out the limb bolts. I also might add that there were, at least to my knowledge, virtually no limb problems even though the limb tips were not reinforced.

Alas, this cam system was done away with after only 4 years (2004-2007) and replaced by the Cat cams and sorely missed by many, myself included.

Possibly one of the best overviews of the past decade of bow technology I have read. . . ! ! !

...plus about the best discription of Martins 'X' system for people who dont understand it...

kylecurtis04
12-12-2012, 10:39 PM
I dont get how the TRG didnt work. If you look at Strothers bows from last year & this year, they all have basically the same thing. Confused as to why the TRG didnt work but Strothers did...

Phantonza
12-13-2012, 05:08 AM
I also found out that my accuracy at 20 yards and closer with the shadowcat is substantially better. And I like how my pin lines up with my rest, unlike the onza which is left because of cam lean the pin is substantially left of center.

At least with the standard black plastic slide on the rod, the Onza has excessive fletching clearance (don't know about the gray teflon piece which I have also seen in some Onzas). I replaced my original slide with a Hoyt slide, which gives a minimum fletching clearance with the Onza and clearly reduces lean - I could adjust my sight pins closer to the center after that.

EDIT: I have the gray teflon slide in my Nemesis and it is better than the black slide that I originally had in the Onza, since it brings cables closer to the center, still providing ample fletching clearance.

WildWilt15
12-13-2012, 11:20 AM
Back on the main topic lol I got a call from Brandon over at Martin earlier today and was working but he left me a voicemail saying that he will be shipping out a REPLACEMENT bow when I call him back, Very pleased thus far with the customer service! Great work Martin.

archerdad
12-13-2012, 12:26 PM
Back on the main topic lol I got a call from Brandon over at Martin earlier today and was working but he left me a voicemail saying that he will be shipping out a REPLACEMENT bow when I call him back, Very pleased thus far with the customer service! Great work Martin.

that is great! glad they are taking care of you

coastie hunter
12-13-2012, 12:35 PM
homey don't play

Thermodude
12-13-2012, 06:00 PM
I'm looking forward to see how this works out. I'm a big fan of the Onza and would love to own another!

WildWilt15
12-17-2012, 09:34 PM
"update"- Bow should be in tomorrow unless any delays. I have not quite decided if i want to keep the bow or not, Really liked one of the flagship bows from another company and can't decide if i want to sell it to fund the new bow or keep it and just save my pennies a few weeks longer. Either way Martin has done a fantastic job thus far quick turn around. I am all the way in Michigan and i shipped my bow out two weeks ago on Wednesday so if it comes in tomorrow that is not even two weeks without a bow.