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madman350
12-13-2012, 12:39 PM
ok, with all the hub-ub going on about the outgoing nemesis style, i havent heard if their draw lengths run true to spec or not. it's been pretty well reported that the onza's runs a little longer than spec according to info on here. will the nemesis run a little long also ( like can it attain a little over +30") since they share the same cam system ?
my guess isnt that the onza's "run long on draw" as much as they were " marked short on the spec sheet". let me know guys.

TEN RING
12-13-2012, 01:28 PM
ok, with all the hub-ub going on about the outgoing nemesis style, i havent heard if their draw lengths run true to spec or not. it's been pretty well reported that the onza's runs a little longer than spec according to info on here. will the nemesis run a little long also ( like can it attain a little over +30") since they share the same cam system ?
my guess isnt that the onza's "run long on draw" as much as they were " marked short on the spec sheet". let me know guys.

my onza was a 1/2 inch long with the same stting as my firecat

madman350
12-13-2012, 02:39 PM
if i can hi jack my own thread i'm wondering if the bare bow physical weight of the nemesis is running spot on ? if one of our moderators could weigh their set-up rig that would be great, or even strip it down to bear bow (jk)... anybody else notice if the nemesis is long on the draw ?

Double S
12-13-2012, 05:37 PM
I looked at my 2011 Nemesis and my 2012 scepter and both modules are on number 5.

bfisher
12-13-2012, 07:33 PM
I looked at my 2011 Nemesis and my 2012 scepter and both modules are on number 5.

Do they both have the same cams or does the Nemisis use 2.0 cams?

Phantonza
12-14-2012, 04:17 AM
ok, with all the hub-ub going on about the outgoing nemesis style, i havent heard if their draw lengths run true to spec or not. it's been pretty well reported that the onza's runs a little longer than spec according to info on here. will the nemesis run a little long also ( like can it attain a little over +30") since they share the same cam system ?
my guess isnt that the onza's "run long on draw" as much as they were " marked short on the spec sheet". let me know guys.

I just purchased a Nemesis with Hybrix 2.0 cams and I also own the Onza 3. I have the modules set at position 4 with both bows, resulting in measured draw length of 29,5".

The nominal draw for the Onza should be 29" at position 4, so it's running 0,5" long. However, I'm somewhat confused with the results of Nemesis: the maximum draw for Nemesis is 30" according to the specs, while it is 30,5" for the Onza. Therefore, I was expecting number 5 position to yield 29" draw for the Nemesis (or 29,5, if it was running a bit long as the Onza). Instead, I had to put the modules to the same position as the Onza, meaning that the Nemesis would be running a whole inch long vs. specs, if I have understood the specs correctly.

This is how I read the specs:

Onza 3
Module position / Draw
7 / 30,5
6 / 30
5 / 29,5
4 / 29 => position 4 gives me 29,5" draw with the Onza
...

Nemesis
Module position Draw
7 / 30
6 / 29,5
5 / 29 => position 5 should give 29" draw with the Nemesis
4 / 28,5 => but actually already position 4 gave me 29,5" draw
...

By the way, the brace height for the Nemesis was 7 1/4" which is exatly the same as Onza's. But it is not what is said in specs of Nemesis (7"). In comparison, 7" brace height is given for the 2013 Onza XT, but I belive nothing has changed and it is actually 7 1/4" still. I don't quite understand what's the trouble with writing specs correctly and accurately at Martin.

That being said, I'm very excited about both the bows.

Phantonza
12-14-2012, 04:23 AM
if i can hi jack my own thread i'm wondering if the bare bow physical weight of the nemesis is running spot on ? if one of our moderators could weigh their set-up rig that would be great, or even strip it down to bear bow (jk)... anybody else notice if the nemesis is long on the draw ?

I intended to measure the weight of my new Nemesis before putting any accessories to it, but of course I forgot to do that. My setup process is still going on, so I might still remove the stuff and measure it later today. I guess it's heavier than the specs; I measured my Onza before and I think it was about 4.6 lbs instead of the specified 4.0, without any accessories on it.

Spiker
12-14-2012, 10:26 AM
I had a '10 Nemesis and dl was 1/4" long.

Double S
12-14-2012, 10:40 AM
Do they both have the same cams or does the Nemisis use 2.0 cams?

Hybrix on the nemesis and Nitro 1.5 on the scepter.

Phantonza
12-14-2012, 12:56 PM
if i can hi jack my own thread i'm wondering if the bare bow physical weight of the nemesis is running spot on ? if one of our moderators could weigh their set-up rig that would be great, or even strip it down to bear bow (jk)... anybody else notice if the nemesis is long on the draw ?

I just measured my Nemesis without accessories: 4.63 pounds. For comparison, my Onza 3's weight was 4.74 pounds (I have measured it earlier).

I used a normal, cheap kitchen scales for the measurement. For simple "calibration" to check the reliability of the scales, I measured the weight of one litre of water and the result was correct.

madman350
12-14-2012, 02:19 PM
Big thanks putting in the time for all the replies. a 1/4" isnt a big deal and well within reason, but 1/2-1" is stretching it. if a bow is presumably 27-30" specs, and some run long and some dont, too me that means there may be to many variables involved in the manufacturing process or assembly. QC should take measurements,etc., and if it isnt what it is supposed to be then the spec sheet should be changed, or at the very least have the bow tagged at whatever it measured out too, imo. i read a thread where someone bought a bow(onza?) and it was too long/short etc., and then it just didnt work out for them, and that is preventable.
as far as the weight being over , i know that we're splitting hairs and not exactly in a controlled scientific testing lab, but people frequently purchase a bow based on its size/weight/dimensions. things like that need to be very close. on the other hand if it weighed less than specs i bet most folks wouldnt care .
phantoza i bet postage hasnt been exactly cheap to finland for all them martins from washington state, lol.. what does the onza weigh fully set up?

Phantonza
12-14-2012, 04:15 PM
Big thanks putting in the time for all the replies. a 1/4" isnt a big deal and well within reason, but 1/2-1" is stretching it. if a bow is presumably 27-30" specs, and some run long and some dont, too me that means there may be to many variables involved in the manufacturing process or assembly.


I think the IBO standard says the bow is allowed to run 1/2" long in the speed test. Perhaps this has something to do with it...?



as far as the weight being over , i know that we're splitting hairs and not exactly in a controlled scientific testing lab, but people frequently purchase a bow based on its size/weight/dimensions. things like that need to be very close. on the other hand if it weighed less than specs i bet most folks wouldnt care .


I agree, I would also like to see realistic specifications. I've heard that Hyundai/Kia needs to pay millions of $ for customers in the US because they have made the fuel consumption specs look better than they really are. I think we have a comparable situation here with the bow weight, more or less :p I knew the bows probably weigh more since I had seen some reviews, and it is not really an issue for me. But I would still appreciate honesty. Still, I really think that my Onza 3 and Nemesis are both better bows than the Hoyt I had :D Biggest reason for this is the draw cycle, especially the area between max. weight and let-off.



phantoza i bet postage hasnt been exactly cheap to finland for all them martins from washington state, lol..

Well, there's a Martin dealer in my home town, and the Nemesis I ordered from Germany - the postage was only 20€ (would be about $25 or so).



what does the onza weigh fully set up?


5.95 pounds with my configuration: G5 Optix XR sight (magnesium construction, lighter than aluminum), QAD Ultra Rest HD arrow rest, No-peep, Apex Pro-tune XS Bone Collector stabilizer with 3" extension bar, Bowjax Monster Limb Jax limb dampers, simple woven wrist sling).

madman350
12-15-2012, 10:12 AM
being within imo standards is fine to help them eke that xtra speed out, but that doesnt help someone with a 26.5-.75" draw and they get a big boy bow with 27" minimum which potentially could turn into maybe a 27.5-28" then the xtra speed gained would be moot (for whoever purchased the bow anyways).....hence the need for at least accurate minimum draw length measurements.