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View Full Version : Anyone found the optimal timing for Onza 3 yet



rdhj
02-13-2013, 02:38 PM
Been messing with my onza to make the let off less and got it rezynchronized, but was wondering if the cams are in the correct and optimal position. What does everyone suggest for timing these. I know Martin suggest using the draw length module screws to time think they mean sync) them, but how do you know which dot they should be on for optimal timing.. Mine is on the 28.5" Dl setting and my cables cross the #3 screw hole...what do others have

Sonny Thomas
02-13-2013, 04:16 PM
Martin has one of the best manuals out, bar none. Timing the Onza III is no different than timing the 2010 and 2011 Shadowcats. I timed mine as per Martin's manual. I then adjusted the positive draw stop to give a bit less letoff and tad bit shorter draw length. Cams tied back to each other there is no rotation of the upper cam.
Timed correctly, you can shoot through paper from any distance and get a star bullet hole, mine does.

Both my Shadowcats were remarkably accurate. 2010 was replaced with a 2012 Scepter V and I still have my 2011.

Ehunter
02-13-2013, 06:00 PM
Mine is set at a 28.5 DL, and the cables cross about 2/3 of the #3 hole, with the rest of the cable on the #4 side. That was the best setting I could find for speed, and shootability. I went past that point just a little, and actually lost a bit of speed.

rdhj
02-13-2013, 06:46 PM
Mine is set at a 28.5 DL, and the cables cross about 2/3 of the #3 hole, with the rest of the cable on the #4 side. That was the best setting I could find for speed, and shootability. I went past that point just a little, and actually lost a bit of speed.

mine is also on 28.5" but i have the draw stop moved to get 28"...could that be be why mine is only on #3 hole?

Lab Rat
02-13-2013, 07:58 PM
If you want to learn a ton about the Martin Nitro/Hybrix/Cat Cams you should read up on the following thread from Archery talk. These cams are all virtually the same and you can really speed your bow up if you have a chrono and some time. The cams really like to be wound up tight to get some serious speed out of them.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.phpt=626601&highlight=optimizing+cat+cams

Sonny Thomas
02-13-2013, 08:29 PM
If you want to learn a ton about the Martin Nitro/Hybrix/Cat Cams you should read up on the following thread from Archery talk. These cams are all virtually the same and you can really speed your bow up if you have a chrono and some time. The cams really like to be wound up tight to get some serious speed out of them.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.phpt=626601&highlight=optimizing+cat+cams


Can you link the article/post itself? I got crap with the above link. I think I read it before, just want to check.

Searched ArcheryTalk. Gary S's Post? I'm in there a couple of times. Sacrifices, harsh reality, draw length issues and....ahhhhh! the draw weight gain and holding weight gain < Yes, that will give you some speed alright....
This was tried by one of my co-workers when the shop handled Martins. Note Gary said you don't want 80% letoff or more? Yep, cams wrapped up, mods set just so, limbs backed off and draw stop set for max letoff. Watched TS shoot it. I swore his release hand was coming back before the bow string went forward. 2 or 3 weeks later TS left for a better paying job and I got the 2008 dark blue target FireCat. Yes, a 33" ata dark blue target bow - TS needed his head...well.... So I tried it for a test hop and not liking my set I tried to let down. I couldn't. Scared me to death. Didn't know what to do and held on forever. Finally, the boss or Bob tapped the bottom cam with a 2X2 and it finally let down. Whew!
I trashed the setup of the FireCat and set it as per the Martin manual. The bow performed just great. I also did a 2008 Slayer shortly after. The owner loved it and still owns it and I've tried to buy it many times. The thing is fast just sitting in the bow case.

Now, noted is the draw weight increase of 3 to 5 pounds. You set the bow to yourself draw length (if you can get it - better ask Barry/bfisher), set the draw stop, back off the mods one draw length and there you are. So you're shooting off the draw stop which gives something of 60 to 65%. Around the same time I got into with a Pearson staff shooter and the Z7 cam. Yep, same thing, wrap up the cam and get more speed. And the same thing, upping the draw weight. Now, so far I have never seen Martin or Pearson approve of this. If Terry or Joel were come on here and said this works I'd give it another try......

rdhj
02-13-2013, 08:29 PM
already read all those threads from AT as suggested by many.....My cables are pretty close to the cable posts as suggested in one of those threads, so I'm thinking my bow might be good to go

wscywabbit
02-14-2013, 02:54 AM
Ok, just my .02c... I built a draw board so I could really watch the cams and try to get them dialed in. I played with my chrono a bit, and ended up putting my module one space too long, and then using the draw stop to adjust my length by moving towards the -, it moved me closer to around 78% let off, and narrowed my valley quite a bit, but I'm ok with that. However that has more to do with the mod setting and not the timing. To set the timing, I set up my draw board and watched the cams roll all the way around until the cables were flush against the flat part of the cam, then made adjustments to get them to hit flush at the same time.

It takes some time and patience but there you go. If you want, from there you can do some creep tuning and experiment with advancing one cam or the other, but that is a little more advanced than what I've gotten into so far.

Ehunter
02-14-2013, 04:16 AM
rdhj, By having yours set on the next longer mod hole, and using the stop to get 28", you are just cutting down on the amount of letoff and raising the holding weight. That in itsself will give you a little more speed. I just kept playing with mine 1/2 twist at a time to the cables until I was able to get about 75% let-off with the mods in the correct holes. Cam timing is perfect, synched well, and the valley is a little shorter but still there. Took several hours to get everything just right. I'm getting 302 fps@ 28.5" draw, 70#, and a 386 gr. arrow. The thread from Gstudt on AT is the same thread I used in getting mine setup, but I did mine to feel the way I wanted it to. It's slightly different than how he recomends. His is set up for him.

wscywabbit
02-14-2013, 04:33 AM
Ehunter, is 28.5" your true draw length or your AMO? Just asking cause my AMO is 28.25" and I'm getting a bit lower speeds out of the similar weighted arrows! :confused:

Lab Rat
02-14-2013, 05:20 AM
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=626601&highlight=optimizing+cat+cams

Give this one a try.

Sonny Thomas
02-14-2013, 09:00 AM
Lab Rat, thanks, that one worked. Yes, that is the same Thread. Please note in the Thread that of nuts&bolts and his referencing the Martin manual for timing.

Understand, timing in this Thread was set virtually by the Martin manual and timing is OP's question. Gary was seeking more speed. Understandable is changing the "timing" for a individual and it's no big secret to advance the top cam perhaps 1/2 twist of the cable. Simpler, some us want the top cam to hit a tad bit before the bottom cam. We've been doing this for years with the Hoyt cam&1/2 and I've done this with all 3 of the Martin Shadowcats I've shot and owned - 1 being a loaner from a Martin Staff shooter and 2 being my own.

Note; Gary said something of 3 pounds increase in draw weight and I have found as much as 8 pounds. This equates to about 6 to 24 fps. Changing letoff from 80% to 65% could amount to possibly 10 fps. So anywhere of 16 to 34 fps increase. BUT! If the draw weight is too much for you, then you must back off the limbs and this effects a bit of all that you've done.

If wanting more speed out of a bow, then there other means without increasing draw weight and losing letoff.

Ehunter
02-14-2013, 05:27 PM
wabbit, that was AMO draw length. Mods set in the #3 holes, and the draw difference made up with the string. Might not be the right or best way to do it, but it's worked for me. lol

wscywabbit
02-14-2013, 06:49 PM
Ok, I gotcha. Ya last spring I played around with the chrono and everything, and settled on the 2 slot, using the draw stop to set my dl. I tried the 3 slot and didn't like the valley it left me (or lack there of) once I set the draw stop. I was seeing blistering speeds though, about 10-15fps more than I currently enjoy. ;)

Just goes to show you how adjustable these cams are! ;)

rdhj
02-15-2013, 08:37 PM
rdhj, By having yours set on the next longer mod hole, and using the stop to get 28", you are just cutting down on the amount of letoff and raising the holding weight. That in itsself will give you a little more speed. I just kept playing with mine 1/2 twist at a time to the cables until I was able to get about 75% let-off with the mods in the correct holes. Cam timing is perfect, synched well, and the valley is a little shorter but still there. Took several hours to get everything just right. I'm getting 302 fps@ 28.5" draw, 70#, and a 386 gr. arrow. The thread from Gstudt on AT is the same thread I used in getting mine setup, but I did mine to feel the way I wanted it to. It's slightly different than how he recomends. His is set up for him.

would it be possible to get maybe 70% let off by messing with the cables while having the draw mod on the correct setting? or is that asking too much?

Ehunter
02-16-2013, 08:42 AM
It should be possible. My bow has a 72# max draw weight, and I'm only holding back 13.68# at full draw. It just takes lot of playing with the cables and strings to get everything just right. Just make sure you don't go very far (1/8-3/16 inch) from specs for ATA and BH.

wabbit, I was wrong on my DL. I had forgotten that for some reason, a 29 DL felt best for me on the Onzas. I have no reason for this. Same anchor point, same "grip", same everything. It just feels better at 29 with the Onzas. That's AMO. Everything else I have is shorter.