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View Full Version : If not Martin ... who?



droppixel
07-05-2013, 07:49 PM
We all have our loyalties ... let's just say Martin ceases to exist, or imagine they never did for that matter because I'd rather not think about the first option ... what bow from what other company would you likely shoot or would like to shoot?

I'll start.

Since seeing the 2013 lineup from Bear really blew me away with what they came out with, the Motive 6 and Empire have really tickled my fancy. I'd be happy to give the Method a whirl also ... like a simplified less expensive Motive 6/7 cross.

All the other companies I just don't really dig right now, I can't stand Mathews risers and same with the PSE riser/limb setup.

The only other bow that I've seen that I think would be nice to shoot is the Vector series from that other company that I choose not to name ;) Shot with a gentlemen at a 3D this year that was shooting the Vector 35 and it was sharp.

MI1
07-05-2013, 08:10 PM
i probably would lean towards Bear.
i've had many in the past and they were...hate to say it...but better in many ways than any martin i have owned. Trouble free as well.
My 2 black ice's were sharp to.
A older Mathews would do me fine.
Hoyt alphamax comes to mind.

*when you have actual engineers with degrees.....and a truly trained machinist.....you will always get better quality and durability.
Martin did good for soooooooo many years without either. It finally caught up to them.
They should've recognized their weakness and made a proactive move to strengthen it, but stubborness and pride got in the way.

droppixel..your bengal is a shooter. Hopefully martin gets bought and moves forward to once again become a reputable bow company.

droppixel
07-05-2013, 08:15 PM
droppixel..your bengal is a shooter. Hopefully martin gets bought and moves forward to once again become a reputable bow company.

Bengal isn't going anywhere. Intend on keeping that bow around as long as possible just because of the flexibility with the Cam ... I can turn it down far enough for my sons to shoot when they are ready.

Speedykills
07-05-2013, 09:17 PM
Anything G5 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Sonny Thomas
07-05-2013, 09:20 PM
You boys gots to get out in the world.... Though it seems the there are only over a hand full of bow companies there are actually several. Some are low keyed. Kodiak Outdoors with their only bow, a 34" ata hunting bow. I had their proto type model, the Bow Logic 36. It never went into production. Another company had the forward set grip, licensed through Martin. Last I heard it is still going. Whatever happened to Martin's forward adjustable grip bow?

I forget the numbers, but X number of bow companies start up and X number of bow companies closes the doors and this each year. Clear Water disolved maybe some 10 years back. Whisper Creek went down the drain 4 or 5 years back. God awfulest, ugliest, shortest ata, wouldn't want to have bow I ever shot and so dang sweet to shoot. Browning and Jennings are also gone. And of all things that compound recurve double cam single string thing is still going, XI.

So Hoyt, PSE, Bear, Pearson, and Martin round up the oldest companies going. Pearson is the world's oldest bow company, 86 years old. Hoyt comes in second at 82 years old. Bow age wise, Mathews is maybe just entering puberty, but it sure is strong for it youthful age. Bowtech is also a newbie as is Ross, if Ross really is still going.

And I have just barely touched the surface of bow companies.

wscywabbit
07-05-2013, 09:31 PM
I am still being optimistic that this too shall pass. :)

But there are some other companies out there that I would lean towards if I had to. One in particular is Alpine Archery. They're a working man's bow company similar to Martin and they make a heck of a bow, although I don't particularly care for some of there riser designs.

Obsession archery would be worth a peak if they had anyone in the northwest dealing, which they don't lol.

If the G5 Prime bows weren't so spendy they'd get a serious look; thier new parallel cam design is pretty interesting and very smooth.

And I do like some of Bowtech's stuff, especially in the last couple years since they changed their grip design.

typically8
07-06-2013, 01:45 AM
If looks could kill....Strother. I cant even afford to hold the demo though.

Hutch~n~Son Archery
07-06-2013, 04:36 AM
This might help on companies

List of bow companies and links
Here is a handy list of bow companies and links. This especially comes in handy when your looking at the new line up of bows, some great bows out there right now, enjoy!

Also feel free to add to the list any ive missed, cheers Doz.

1) BEAR ARCHERY
http://www.beararcheryproducts.com/

2) PSE ARCHERY
http://www.pse-archery.com/

3) MATTHEWS ARCHERY
http://mathewsinc.com/

4) BOWTECH
http://www.bowtecharchery.com/

5) HOYT ARCHERY
http://www.hoyt.com/

6) DARTON ARCHERY
http://www.dartonarchery.com/

7) HIGH COUNTRY ARCHERY
http://highcountryarchery.net/

8) NEW BREED ARCHERY
http://www.newbreedarchery.com/

9) ALPINE ARCHERY
http://www.alpinearchery.com/

10) BEN PEARSON ARCHERY CO
http://www.benpearson.com/home.htm

11) DIAMOND ARCHERY
http://www.diamondarchery.com/

12) ELITE ARCHERY
http://www.elitearchery.com/

13) FUSE ARCHERY
http://www.fusearchery.com/

14) HOWARD HILL ARCHERY
http://www.howardhillarchery.com/

15) MARTIN ARCHERY
http://www.martinarchery.com/

16) PARKER COMPOUND BOWS
http://parkerbows.com/

17) FORGE BOW COMPANY INC
http://www.forgebow.com

18) ATHENS ARCHERY
http://www.athensarchery.com/

19) LIMBSAVER
http://www.limbsaver.com/

20) CARBON TECH ARCHERY
http://www.carbontecharrows.com/

21) MISSION ARCHERY
http://missionarchery.com/

22) STROTHER ARCHERY
http://strotherarchery.com/

23) WINCHESTER ARCHERY
http://www.winchesterarchery.com/

24) G5 PRIME
http://g5prime.com/

25) MAITLAND USA
http://maitlandusa.com/

26) CP ONEIDA EAGLE (innovative bow designs)
http://www.cponeidaeagle.com/products.htm

27) LIBERTY ARCHERY (innovative bow designs)
http://www.libertyarchery.com/

28) BELCHER BOWS
http://www.belcherbows.com/

29) KODIAK OUTDOORS
http://www.kodiak-outdoors.com/

30) K & K ARCHERY
http://www.kandkarchery.com/

31) BLADERUNNER ARCHERY INC.(innovative bow designs)
http://www.bladerunnerarchery.com

32) Merlin bows
http://www.merlin-bows.co.uk/

33) ROSS ARCHERY
http://www.rossarchery.com/

34) APA ARCHERY
http://apaarchery.com/

35) WHITE WOLF ARCHERY
http://www.whitewolfarchery.com/

36) CONCEPT ARCHERY (99% let off bows)
http://www.conceptarchery.com

37) OBSESSION BOWS
http://obsessionbows.com/

38) KAYA ARCHERY
http://www.kayaarchery.com

39) APEX PREDATOR BOWS (trad)
http://www.apexpredatorbows.com/

40) APEX HUNTING
http://apexhunting.com.au/shop/category/bows/

Hutch~n~Son Archery
07-06-2013, 04:38 AM
there are more

Merlin bows
http://www.merlin-bows.co.uk/

Browning Archery:
http://www.browning.com (http://www.browning.com/customerservice/qna/detail.asp?id=288)

Kaya archery
www.kayaarchery.com (http://www.kayaarchery.com)

Sonny Thomas
07-06-2013, 05:38 AM
Bows I've shot on Hutch's list....and tid bits

1) BEAR ARCHERY
http://www.beararcheryproducts.com/
Shot one that I should have bought - just incredible.

2) PSE ARCHERY
http://www.pse-archery.com/
Shot several, but impressive was the Vendetta XL.

3) MATTHEWS ARCHERY
http://mathewsinc.com/
Years back, fastest bow in the world at the time, the Black Max. Year 2000. 330 fps.

4) BOWTECH
http://www.bowtecharchery.com/
Had a Old Glory and vowed to never own another.

5) HOYT ARCHERY
http://www.hoyt.com/
UltraTec by which all other bows should be gauged. Had 11 of them.

6) DARTON ARCHERY
http://www.dartonarchery.com/
Shot several, but the Yukon was Darton's best kept secret - fast, but kicked like a young mule.

9) ALPINE ARCHERY
http://www.alpinearchery.com/
Their target bow was quite nice, but their hunting bow was the clunkest, heaviest bow I ever picked up.

10) BEN PEARSON ARCHERY CO
http://www.benpearson.com/home.htm
My first compound when returning to archery at the end of 1998 and my present target bow, the MarXman, fast enough and accurate.
News flash; Pearson is coming out this year with a new single cam hunting bow. Fully adjustable draw mod and adjustable positive stop.

11) DIAMOND ARCHERY
http://www.diamondarchery.com/
The first one I shot was so quiet I wondered if I shot.

15) MARTIN ARCHERY
http://www.martinarchery.com/
Shot several and all darned good bows.

16) PARKER COMPOUND BOWS
http://parkerbows.com/
Shot their Black Knight or whatever it was called. 350 fps was awesome, but not for me.

18) ATHENS ARCHERY
http://www.athensarchery.com/
Shot one of the first out. All but Robin Hooded my first arrow with my second. I complained of the square grip and they have since made it so much better. Would love to have a Excell.

26) CP ONEIDA EAGLE (innovative bow designs)
http://www.cponeidaeagle.com/products.htm
It shoots and that's all that I have good to say about it.

27) LIBERTY ARCHERY (innovative bow designs)
http://www.libertyarchery.com/
Pocket bow. Grip like holding a .38 Spl and kicks like one.

29) KODIAK OUTDOORS
http://www.kodiak-outdoors.com/
One bow company, they sure have a smooth one and accurate.

32) Merlin bows
http://www.merlin-bows.co.uk/
Another squarish grip bow. Wouldn't have one if they gave it to me.

33) ROSS ARCHERY
http://www.rossarchery.com/
Actually a pretty nice little bow.

42) Browning Archery:
http://www.browning.com
Never cared for them, but they shot nice.
I thought Browning was done....

Another bow gone that I really liked, Golden Eagle passed on about 12 years ago. Just about anyone could pick one up and shoot it. I know where one is that never came into production. Bows today are just reaching it's speed. Owner says he'll let me shoot some day and he keeps saying it...darn him.

Hutch~n~Son Archery
07-06-2013, 05:42 AM
This list was comprised a while back so some of the companies are not in business anymore.



Hutch:cool:

MI1
07-06-2013, 06:01 AM
i'm shooting a parker phoenix 34...it's a 2006 model, but shoot lights out. Great bow, accurate as heck! so easy to pull with the cam they had back then...smooth, quiet and virtually no vibe.

i shot the bengeal recently.....that is a good bow from martin. If i knew they would stick around for another 10 years..i would pick up a bengal so that my son could grow with it.

The other bow that i would own again is a Darton...........no doubt a Darton again!!!!!

No doubt there are alot of company's to choose from....pick the one that fits you the best.

my bucket list
Darton - Bear - Hoyt...*Martin, if they get an engineer, Ryan Martin leaves, Get a new sales force, Hire Joel back, & can financially stay afloat.

Spiker
07-06-2013, 09:42 AM
My other bow is a Strother Rush SX.

TEN RING
07-06-2013, 12:07 PM
In the last 10 years I have own
3 bowtech's pro 38 (heavy) 82nd shot really good but no valley, destoyer 350 still have, has more valley then the 82nd still on the fence with it
3 darton's mavrick pro 3000 pro 3500 all shot good I shot the mavrick the best, cs sucks
2 elite's snyergy I loved that bow never should have sold it gt500 was also a good bow
1 limbsaver can't even remember the model didn't like it but my buddy loves it
1 pse ar 37 piece of ^&&&t
2 martin's the firecat 400 my son is now shooting very nice bow and my onza 3 witch is a dream to shoot
so if not martin maybe another elite ???

SJunior
07-06-2013, 05:07 PM
I have a Strother Rush XT, nice bow but I just can't get comfortable shooting with no valley. As soon as I get some valley adjusted into it I could find myself shooting it quite a bit more.

An Elite Pure would be my number 1 choice after that.

bob cooly
07-06-2013, 05:43 PM
NEVER BowTech, they have undoubtedly the worst C.S. in the archery world. Both the closest (Pro Shops) to me are dropping them or being dropped. The closest is a 3 hr. drive and I can't get Bowtech to send me a new Flexguard for my 2010 Iceman.

Don B
07-07-2013, 12:54 PM
If Martin goes away, I will still shoot my Shadowcats.
I have shot almost all the finger bows on the market and there is nothing and I mean nothing that is equal to the Shadowcat.
Don.

Ehunter
07-07-2013, 02:29 PM
I'm still a big fan of Martin of course, but can't say a bad thing about the Strothers I own either. They take a little more tinkering than Martins to get just right, but they are great shooters. Maybe a bit short in the valley, and a stiffer draw than Martin, but still a very smooth draw. SX Rush, SR-71, and Infinity are the ones I own, and all are great shooters. They are more speed based bows, so the draw cycle is to be expected. Customer service is top notch as well. Maybe not quite Joel quality, but very good. Picked all mine up pretty cheap on AT.

Sonny Thomas
07-07-2013, 02:43 PM
Shot with a Fred Bear staff shooter today. He had the Anarchy in target color, gorgeous red. Looked great for fit and finish. He shot it pretty decent, but he wouldn't spot me 20 points and him shooting Known 45 with Range Finder and me with all unknown - we shot the same course, stake for stake. He didn't turn in his score card. Honestly, I think he may have got me by a handful of points. If he would have spotted me 20 I would have trashed him.... Still, I was impressed with his Anarchy....

Tosi
07-07-2013, 03:37 PM
May be the boss's at Martin should read this thread, it may lite a fire under them to get thing fixed ASAP. I will say that I really enjoy my Fire Cat 400 and it has delivered some of my biggest trophy game and keeps the frig full. The best bow that I currently have is the Alpine Verdict, shoots a broadhead amazing at 20-80 yards and shoots a 420g tip at 288-290fps, easy draw and a graet back wall. I also have the F1 Fireball and it's a 3D bow with it's 34 ATA and draws like butter. The 1st Mathrews that I ever owned is the Z7 Mag and its all what the critics say it is. I will hunt this year deer with the Verdict and Z7 for Bull Elk. Also Alpine CS is best one that I have delt with, Joel was good to me at Martin but haven't tryed them in a while.

dzsmith2
07-07-2013, 09:33 PM
Plz shoot an obsession, you won't regret it . I didn't know what I was missing.

MI1
07-08-2013, 06:23 AM
obsession looks amazing...the detail to it...wow

one bow i left off my bucket list would be the limbsaver proton.....that rig is simply a shooting surgical instrument!

bfisher
07-08-2013, 09:47 AM
obsession looks amazing...the detail to it...wow

one bow i left off my bucket list would be the limbsaver proton.....that rig is simply a shooting surgical instrument!

Too bad you didn't see the ad I had in the classifieds last year. I sold one of the Protons for $175 if I remember right--new.

Now to add to the OP's question, I've shot for Pearson before and shot a Darton Viper back in 1993 so these two would be on my list if I ever had to buy a bow. Right now I'm satisfied with the three Aliens I've got and don't see changing any time soon. They've been as good as anything I've had in the last 40 years.

Spiker
07-08-2013, 10:40 AM
Like BF, I'm still a big fan.
8247

My older Martin/Rytera's shoot great and my '13 seems to be doing well.
Here is a field point a broadhead and a bareshaft from 25yds this morning...
8248

bfisher
07-08-2013, 11:16 AM
Like BF, I'm still a big fan.
8247

My older Martin/Rytera's shoot great and my '13 seems to be doing well.
Here is a field point a broadhead and a bareshaft from 25yds this morning...
8248

That's how a well tuned bow is supposed to shoot. Good job Spiker.

MI1
07-08-2013, 03:03 PM
Too bad you didn't see the ad I had in the classifieds last year. I sold one of the Protons for $175 if I remember right--new.

Now to add to the OP's question, I've shot for Pearson before and shot a Darton Viper back in 1993 so these two would be on my list if I ever had to buy a bow. Right now I'm satisfied with the three Aliens I've got and don't see changing any time soon. They've been as good as anything I've had in the last 40 years.

$175........wow...deal of the century. i found one used for $250 today. they really do shoot well.....
I think they will slowly build up a following. I'm not sure that their marketing all that well for it.

Simple Life
07-08-2013, 03:32 PM
Well as you can see from my sig. I like PSE.The grip fits me very well,the Drive with the DC cams draws smooth with no humps,fit and finish is good.The only thing is the weight,wish they were a tad lighter,but nothing too serious.Still like to try some smaller companies like Obsession, Athens,New Breed.My Firecat will stay with me even if I can't get parts,just has the "right" feel to it.Hopefully Martin can right the ship sort to speak and continue on.

OnzaXX
07-09-2013, 06:48 AM
My next bow will probably not be from Martin. I have 4 frankenbowed Onzas (absolutly love the first gen machined riser), but with everything that has been going on, I will proablay move to another company and wait for future Martin products. I'm looking at New Breed, Obsession or Ross. Unfortunatly, I don't have dealers within a decent distance for any of these bows.

All of the dealers around here push Mathews, Hoyt, and PSE, not a fan of these. I might consider Hoyt (that is my grandfather's last name), but my first Hoyt 14 years ago was a turd of a bow. My wife loves her Saphire though.

WildWilt15
07-12-2013, 07:47 PM
bowtech has always been one of my favorites. i fell into the mathews band wagon and was definitely upset with the quality but ive shot just about every bow company and i would probably go to another family owned business before i went to a big company i just like the pride behind the craftsmanship i love martin bows and the back story and as long as i possibly can i will probably stick with my bengal and nemesis but in time i will have to move on.(if the company takes a turn for the worse) oh yeah and i forgot a company that wowed me this year PRIME!

Double S
07-12-2013, 08:40 PM
I would like to try a Maitland bow and a Ok archery Bow.

daiwateampenn
08-19-2013, 02:52 AM
If not martin.... who????


erm...

I start off with fishing. I always goes with PENN. i believe Old company always have something hide under their product, and that why they still exist in the world. (fren among me, complaining saying PENN is history, old, outdated.. compare to those new japanese designed reel.)
But to me, PENN invented the Integrated Side Plate. where all kinds of conventional reels in this world using their ISP patten and technology. So? PENN IS old? PENN is outdated?

For archery, i guess i will stay the same. I once choose Martin, is also because the history of the company. the advancement of inventing many types of technology into archery. FOr me, Martin definately have something hide under their product, which make them unique. Sometimes u just cant tell why u like Martin over other bow. Just that feel. I guess, they also using technology to create the so called "feel" of the bow.....

Sometimes when looking at other brand compound bow, and advertised to be the so called latest technology (2.0, 3.0, 4.0 5.0 cam version), Hhmmmm.... where did i see this cam design before????? Martin bow has it in 2009???.

I like the origin technology, not the copy, and rennovated technology and claim to their own.

to answer If Not Martin... Who?

I really donno...... the other two will old history company. Both brand bow riser does not attract my liking.

But one things for sure.
I will still shoot my Rytera Nemesis and still keep it.
That is a one of a kind design of riser. No other bow has it.
I almost have Seeker 365 in my collection, that is also one of the kind.

The carbon riser does attracts me, but i will not go to that extend to buy it brand new.
Maybe wait for another one or two year see any laying around so 2nd price.

Sonny Thomas
08-19-2013, 08:59 AM
Maybe some don't mean it, but....

First Hoyt and Pearson have been around a bit longer than Martin and they didn't survive because of Martin technology. If you look down through their history they also made great strides in archery. Hoyt and Pearson lost their originators long, long ago, Earl Hoyt and Ben Pearson, and kept going without them. Abet, Pearson is not highly toted as it once was, but they do produce some outstanding bows. Pearson has gone through 3 (?) owners and still going.....

Most all makers of cams pay homage to Darton, not Martin.... Maybe Martin should have kept the strut riser? Maybe Martin should have kept improving the drop rest? Maybe how much more? But Martin didn't..... Should we say, failed?

Bows are bows. I've placed and won with virtually every bow I've competed with, Golden Eagle, Darton, Hoyt, Martin, Pearson and probably a couple I've forgot. Not one of them were more accurate than another. Even shot some I thought uglier than sin, but they shot damned good. Clear Water and Whisper Creek made some damned nice shooting bows, but they are gone. Barry and I noted Golden Eagle just recently....gone..... Why do some succeed and others fail?

Speed?
Martin dropped the finest speed bow they ever produced, the 2008 Slayer. Why? If one I know would sell his I'd own it....
Martin cranked up the Scepter IV for one year to a whopping 345 fps and dropped it. Why?

Speed? Hoyt and Mathews had bows cranking 328 and 330 fps back in the year 2000, almost 14 years ago. Many bows on the market today surpass Martin in the speed department.....

Price? Just depends on what bow. My Shadowcat listed for $820. Many top bows could easily match or come near matching this. Not the exotic shoot throughs and carbon riser bows, but those still beyond the Shadowcat for looks. My black beauty Pearson MarXman surpasses the looks of the Shadowcat and is listed for the near the same price, $800.00.

Customer Service. I never found Martin's any better than the next. But then I didn't have to call Martin over a dozen times to find out....Well, other bows just don't fail all that much or they get the problem corrected damned fast. One call to Hoyt in 13 years and of 11 bows I've owned. No calls to Pearson since I started at the shop back in 2008. You have to really know what nice is, not having to call Customer Service.

I just sold my Martin Shadowcat. It came almost as relief. Relief felt through I don't have to worry about the limbs failing and having to buy $150 Barnsdale limbs because Martin is no more. However, I did feel good when the new owner of my Shadowcat said he had it shooting great. He even went on AT to find out if he could shoot Pro division. Unbelievable, but his Post is there.

Do we blame or cut down or otherwise give distain of other bow companies because Martin going down the drain? I think not.

Read, read and read all you want in here and the only thing that comes to the top is the vast majority of Martin bows being inexpensive, not faster, not more accurate, nor more durable. So what's that say?

How many of you in here compete in archery events. Don and who else? Me, but.... ? If you did maybe you'd be more wiser, both shooting experience wise and more of other bows?

No one is happy we're losing Martin, but some of you guys gots to get out in the world.....

Bow-N-Arrow
11-14-2013, 12:30 AM
I am new to this site but not to archery. I have been shooting now for 47 years. I have owned just about every brand there is and was. I just bought a new 2012 Exile as a backup bow to my Vector 32 Hoyt. I also have a Bear Truth that I still put to the woods. I have killed many a meat packing animal with it! I have also got recurves by York and a home made Hickory bow that I love. I love the Exile for a ground blind and tree stand bow. It has the short 30.25 Axle to axle and only weighs 3.4 lbs. Making it my smallest lightest bow (For a compound) I have owned. It has already put meat in the freezer for me this year. I have used it instead of my vector for deer hunting and must say I love it. If Martin was not around I would be back to my Hoyt and from there Bear. I can not rule out any of the popular brands as far as never owning any of there bows. All of them Have some good points to them, some just more than others! I must say though my favorite compound bow of all times has to be the Hoyt Vector 32. It is one sweet shooting bow. Martin comes in with a close 2nd and bear not far behind. Just my two cents worth!

CLT Bluesman
01-25-2014, 06:41 PM
I would not know where to begin. I read all the reports in the magazines and it seems they never have anything bad to say about any bow. It is all I can do to decide on which Martin I want, much less add in all the offerings by other companies. I hope that this owner keeps it going. I know I love my Cougar II. I also have a new old Browning that was my Dad's, and it shoots nice also. A Browning Deluxe Nomad II XL. I would probably just keep shooting these until I die if Martin went under.

TEN RING
01-25-2014, 08:40 PM
It's all about what fits you and your wallet

webbnate_45
02-05-2014, 05:09 PM
Old thread but thought I would add my other choices....

I have owned and shot others but my first choice if Martin were not around would be a Darton. I had an older Maverick and loved it. Second, probably a Bear. Mainly cause that is what the local pro shop stocks.

bfisher
02-05-2014, 06:47 PM
Old thread but thought I would add my other choices....

I have owned and shot others but my first choice if Martin were not around would be a Darton. I had an older Maverick and loved it. Second, probably a Bear. Mainly cause that is what the local pro shop stocks.

Now that you've been digging in the archives I'm going to agree with you. Darton is quite the fantastic unmarketed bow, much the same as Pearson.

webbnate_45
02-05-2014, 07:07 PM
I am digging around a lot on here! There are a lot of interesting threads I have found once I dug back a ways. It is funny talking to some guys I work with that are bow hunters, when I bought my Martin they had no idea who Martin was, same with Darton. They have no idea what they are missing out on!

bfisher
02-06-2014, 06:27 AM
Know what you mean. There's a reason that everybody knows more about the big 3 (or 4) companies. Marketing, and for shop owners it's profit margin. There's a lot more profit from a $600 to $1000 bow than there is from those that sell for $400 to $600. A shop owner is going to stock and sell what makes the most profit margin. Can't blame them for that.

The other side of the coin is that they are also going to sell what they can get. Some companies do seem to get a reputation for not being able to fill orders in a timely manner. Then there are those that spend very little money on advertising. If they want to sell products they got to promote them.