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Sonny Thomas
07-27-2013, 11:06 PM
Of bow strings. Over the past 13 years that I know of we’ve come a long ways to the quality strings we have today. I began with a Pearson compound, steel cables and regular bow string. Well, not regular as of now. Very little if any twist was given the bow string. My first bow string didn’t last very long and a new one was built by a local string maker. It was on the bow when I sold it a year later.

After the Pearson I bought a brand new 1999 Golden Eagle Evolution. I shot it and I shot until one day my bow arm began taking a beating. Lord! To the bow shop I went. The mechanic shorten the draw with the then ˝” less draw posts. I shot it and it stretched. I had the same local string maker make a set strings for it. While waiting for the strings I had the Evolution hanging on the wall. I was doing something and this sceeeetch, whirl came. Looked around and saw a flickering of light on the wall. Looked to my bow and there was the top wheel spinning, the limbs flat straight and the bow string hanging in two pieces. The new built string was on the bow a year later when I sold it to the next door neighbor.

Hooked on 3D I wanted a new bow, something faster than the Golden Eagle. The best I could get out of the Golden Eagle was 255 fps. My heart was set on a Hoyt UltraTec, but said a wait period of 6 to 8 weeks (Yeah, right). So the magnesium brother of the UltraTec, the MagnaTec, was the closest thing to what I wanted until the UltraTec arrived. I bought it. This is in early 2000. I shot the MagnaTec everyday and every 3D I could get to. It was faster than the Golden Eagle and by some 15 fps, 270 fps. I placed and won a bunch with the MagnaTec and before the UltraTec arrived almost at the end of 2000 I had to have new strings put on the MagnaTec. The same string maker made a new set, but they didn’t hold up any better than the factory strings. But then regulated to deer hunting, not shot all that much, the strings did last longer. It would be years later I had a set built by M&R Bow strings that I had a set of strings that were way superior.

My 2000 UltraTec made it through the 2000 3D year and almost through the local indoor league session. And a new set string were needed. So again, the local string maker was called. Again, the strings didn’t last much better than the factory strings.

Enter 2003 or 2004. Hoyt comes out with FUSE strings. Well, they weren’t called FUSE to start. I got a set to try and I believe Hoyt sold them to me (through my dealer) for something of $25.00, complete set of strings, not just a bow string. The new strings proved the best ever. In fact, my now retired UltraTec still has these same strings on it. And it was with these yet name FUSE strings the UltraTec jumped in speed. It normally checked a 282 to 284 fps. With the new strings it jumped to 295 fps and has held there ever since.
I get the UltraTec out ever so often. The last was maybe 3 years ago at a Darchery (301) shoot at the shop. 7 shots were that were needed to get the 301 for the win.

I went through a lot of bows from 2000 to 2006 and all Hoyts (11 all together), except for a 2005 Bowtech Old Glory. All the strings lasted at least a year of hard shooting, except the Bowtech. Less than 6 months of shooting the BowTec needed new strings and I think then Bowtech went with Winner’s Choice. New strings put on, I sold the Old Glory without shooting it.

Strings, better materials, were on their way to giving longer life. I shoot something of 15,000 shots per year and have yet to have set of string outright fail. And I could care less of garanteed peep alignment. No two bows seem a like and peep alignment troubles all somewhere along the line. But we have information floating all over the place now and peep alignment is easily corrected. My peeps don't have to be straight with bow at rest. As long as the peep aligns at full draw I'm happy....

2008. Martin strings. Said was so-so strings were on the Gold Series and more quality strings on the Pro Series. This might be true, but the Gold Series strings had quality above beyond years past. What 2008 Martins I set up and worked on took a bit of tweaking to make all come together. A few hundred shots and a bit of twisting the bow string to get the peep to behave, but after that they lasted and lasted. I know of two 2008 Bengals with original strings still on them. No, I don’t approve, but they are still being shot. One 2008 FireCat still has original strings on it. It proved easier to tame for peep alignment. A 2008 Slayer still has original strings and doing well, but the owner said they were due to be change. I’d think so.

And of the years in between and now. I’ve used several brands of strings, both custom and factory. All seem to hold up well. To name a few; Winner’s Choice, Excellerator, M&R Bow Strings, Dakota (Stone Mountain), Vapor Trail, Martin’s Hammerhead and Pearson’s custom built strings by Proline. If I were to say the best I have to give the nod to Vapor Trail. I have a set that has been on two Martin Shadowcats ranging from the summer of 2010 to February of 2012. Some 40,000 plus shots and they still look great. So great do they look that I kept them just in case. I put on the Hammerhead strings when I had to send the 2010 back to the factory. Good thing, because the Shadowcat was replaced by a 2012 Scepter V.

Of Martin’s Hammerhead strings. I had traded my 2006 Hoyt ProElite (not a fast bow) to a Martin Staff shooter for his 2011 Shadowcat he didn’t like. I thought it was a good trade…Even up. And he had only shot it twice in competition. I believe he got the Shadowcat right before the 2011 Illinois ASA State Championship. It was here he asked me how to go about setting the timing. Not month later I had the Shadowcat. New factory strings, yep, I’ll shoot them. And I did. One, the servings came loose. The serving for the string stop went almost immediately. No big problem. Corrected about as fast as removing the loose serving. And then one cable of the two tone strings was not even, the green longer than the black. So I asked Roger of M&R Bow strings. “They should be okay, eventually evening up.” Yes, they did and right when I didn’t need it. In a 3D contest I shot good up to about target 16 and arrow went crashing through the “tulips.” I was given a test shot and again my arrow went crashing. What happened was the bottom serving had separated and on the same uneven cable. I was out of the 3D. At the shop I removed the serving of both cables and stretched the cables. The uneven cable evened out completely. Both were reserved with different serving material. All put back on the Shadowcat I lost about 5 fps, the different material robbing velocity, Still, 285 down to 280 fps was no big deal. The bow shoots great…
The main thing is, the Hammerhead strings are still on the bow and still have lots of shots left in them.

bfisher
07-28-2013, 04:41 AM
Interesting read Sonny. I remember when I got my new Hoyt Mako back in 1989. It was my first new bow in 9 years and had synthetic cables and string from the then relatively new fastflght material. I did what most did then and "trained" the peep to align at full draw. During a hot summer 3D shoot I watched the peep turn when going from sunlight to shade--common for the day. Constantly tuning the bow to keep it shooting well.

Got staff with XI in 1993 and had much the same performance. In 1997 got with Golden Eagle and surprisingly chose a Litespeed just for it's shootability. That's when I started to learn the intricasies of bow tuning. One of the few bows that I could tune bare shaft, fletched, and broadheads on a bare shaft to hit the same POI at 35 yards. Not fast at 261 fps, but very accurate. In 2000 got on staff with Pearson/McPherson and things got better. They started making their strings from UltraCam, a better material for sure although they weren't prestretched and peep rotation continued. Still they lasted, durability was good.

Fast forward to 2004 and signed with Martin. Factory strings were still so-so on most bows, but getting better on high end bows. Newer materials and prestretching getting learned. Started getting custom strings from Winner's Choice, Bucknasty, and others and found heaven on earth in the string department. Set a bow up. tune it, and forget it. Life was good. Then along come Hammerhead strings. Finally, a factory string that more or less lived up to the hype. Even they have gotten better over the last few years. My 2010 Alien Z still has them on as does my 2011 Nemisis. About the only reason I see to change now is for color choice.

To that end my Crimson Red riser 2012 Nemisis has strings from Hutch at Bowstring Depot. Red riser with Fl green and black strings just didn't get it. So I chose Flame and silver. Now the bow is Purdy.

Younger shooters who haven't had the experience that we have just can't appreciate how far string material and string making procedures have come over the last 10 years. Materials such as 8125, Trophy, and 8190, along with prestretching, serving that doesn't move is the cat's meow.

Sonny Thomas
07-28-2013, 12:02 PM
Those read this and young as Barry noted, string were just about terrible way back when. The true double cam was considered just awesome, but the strings weren't up keeping a decent tune and peep alignment. And bow presses were to the point only bow shops had them.
The double cam slipped off to the side and the single cam reigned supreme for a good while. Longer of bow string the string stretched, but simplicity to correct was there. simple was moving the nock and peep and go until the stretch got too much.

Will be skipping about;
With the coming of better strings the double cam was brought back, but of different design. Darton had their CPS cam system and quickly adopting (leasing Darton's patent) Hoyt came out the the cam & 1/2 and the single cam slipped a pace or two back. And the true double cam came back into being, but given a new name through different design. Martin was perhaps the only bow company that kept a true double cam. The smallish Furious cams most recognize. They are something of the cams we called Hatchet cams. Hatchet cams were the fastest, but also instilled fear as timing was crucial. Some carried a little tool you hung on the bow string to gage the gap between the bow string a cable. You checked both ends to both cables. I may have that little gage somewhere. The person that could keep their hatchet cam bow in time was the person to beat.
And those of us made the leap from single cams to modern double cams had our problems. Hoyt's Master cams were Hoyt's fastest and most awesome cams,...if you could keep all synced and timed. The Command Cam took over and were much friendlier. And Draw stop timing was the coming thing and much acclaimed for the cam & 1/2. And now all is history. Javi was probably the first to write up draw stop timing. His procedure took off like a rocket.... Well, after one understood the procedure. Javi's procedure in hand one dropped back to Hoyt's Command Cams and Presto! Magic! Ahhh! Almost quickly Hoyt's timing marks became reference points. But then Javi's procedure fell in in line with Martin's Cat cams and then a series of other cams by other bow manufacturers. My Pearson MarXman is timed right out of Martin's manual. And though some one noted Martin's manual somewhat outdated, it is by far ahead of many other manufacturer's manuals.
Again, if not for better string materials much would not have come to pass......

Of note; I once spoke with Javi one on one for something of over one hour. He is incredibly intelligent, but admitted he was no techical writer. Maybe not, but no one has gone further to correct his procedure. After our discussion I found his procedure almost child's play. Martin's manual give pics and how to and makes timing a piece of cake. Alas, Javi suffered two heart breakers almost together. He lost his father and then had what many thought to be a stroke, but was something else. He became missing on AT. He sold off much of his archery tackle. By luck I happened to run into a person who personally knew and frequented with Javi. Javi is doing well and enjoying camping. Ever so often he'll get on AT. And of another note; So popular became his Draw Stop timing is became overbearing. So overbearing he once asked for his Post to be removed. Happily, it wasn't.

bfisher
07-28-2013, 06:01 PM
Javi sure knows his stuff. Wondered what happened to him. Thanks for sharing. FYI I have an acquaintance quite well that you may have heard about. Name is Larry Wise. We shot together a few times back in the 70's. He actually was a follower of a sales rep group that I shot with in the 90's. Sherwood Schock in case you're interested.

Funny thinking about Javi, though. Sold most of his archery stuff, did he? Sounds like me. After my massive muscle loss a few years back I wasn't able to hunt for 3 years. Couldn't draw enough weight. Year four rolled around and I could shoot enough weight, but that old fire had burned out. I thought I'd miss hunting, but I have found other avenues to follow---coaching kids. To that end, one day I looked in the mirror and realized I didn't need all my hunting gear so a lot of camo, treestands, steps, sticks and other stuff has been and still is being sold.

I still enjoy shooting and do so almost every day. Some things are just good exercise, for the body and the mind. I have this saying.
" People don't quit doing things because the get old---they get old because they quit doing things."

wscywabbit
07-29-2013, 07:39 PM
Wow guys, thank you! That was an interesting read for sure. I'm glad we have people on here like you that have experience, understanding, and the need to teach. It definitely makes this a better community than some of the "other" forums ;).

dzsmith2
07-30-2013, 05:16 AM
Interesting read Sonny. I remember when I got my new Hoyt Mako back in 1989. It was my first new bow in 9 years and had synthetic cables and string from the then relatively new fastflght material. I did what most did then and "trained" the peep to align at full draw. During a hot summer 3D shoot I watched the peep turn when going from sunlight to shade--common for the day. Constantly tuning the bow to keep it shooting well.

Got staff with XI in 1993 and had much the same performance. In 1997 got with Golden Eagle and surprisingly chose a Litespeed just for it's shootability. That's when I started to learn the intricasies of bow tuning. One of the few bows that I could tune bare shaft, fletched, and broadheads on a bare shaft to hit the same POI at 35 yards. Not fast at 261 fps, but very accurate. In 2000 got on staff with Pearson/McPherson and things got better. They started making their strings from UltraCam, a better material for sure although they weren't prestretched and peep rotation continued. Still they lasted, durability was good.

Fast forward to 2004 and signed with Martin. Factory strings were still so-so on most bows, but getting better on high end bows. Newer materials and prestretching getting learned. Started getting custom strings from Winner's Choice, Bucknasty, and others and found heaven on earth in the string department. Set a bow up. tune it, and forget it. Life was good. Then along come Hammerhead strings. Finally, a factory string that more or less lived up to the hype. Even they have gotten better over the last few years. My 2010 Alien Z still has them on as does my 2011 Nemisis. About the only reason I see to change now is for color choice.

To that end my Crimson Red riser 2012 Nemisis has strings from Hutch at Bowstring Depot. Red riser with Fl green and black strings just didn't get it. So I chose Flame and silver. Now the bow is Purdy.

Younger shooters who haven't had the experience that we have just can't appreciate how far string material and string making procedures have come over the last 10 years. Materials such as 8125, Trophy, and 8190, along with prestretching, serving that doesn't move is the cat's meow.

i was born in 89

Sonny Thomas
07-30-2013, 07:58 AM
I was born in 89.


OMG! Barry! These kids ain't reached puberty yet!

bfisher
07-30-2013, 02:12 PM
OMG! Barry! These kids ain't reached puberty yet!


You could say it that way, Sonny, but there is something else I've learned about those who pursue this sport. Experience doesn't always mean a guy has shot forever like us. I know people who have shot almost as long as me and still don't even know how to move a peep sight or sight in their bow, install a rest, etc. They just never took the time or have the interest. On the other hand I know of one guy I taught to shoot about 3 years ago that knows almost as much as I do and maybe more in some areas.

Some people are just afraid to work on their compound bows, thinking they are some technical nightmare. Little do they know that within reason all compound bows are virtually the same and the mechanical concept hasn't changed since the beginning. It's just a simple block and tackle system. Sure changes have occurred over the years, but those of us who have seen and lived with these changes can understand a lot of the changes and in some cases appreciate some of the virtues of some of the older bows; and by old I mean decades old. Most of these pups talk about a 3 year old bow being like an antique and it isn't so. I don't consider a bow outdated till they're more like 10 years old. I've said this before, but the fastest bow I've ever owned was a 2004 Martin SlayR. Second fastest was a 1992 Martin Viper with energy wheels and steel cables. That's how far bows have come.

More coming later.

Arrow Splitter
07-30-2013, 05:17 PM
Well said Barry. I've been in archery for 11+ years, but as probably many of you know I was born in '93.;) My Dad (he started archery when I did) and I took the time and researched and learned all about archery, including the tuning and setup of a compound bow. Now a bunch of years later we tune other people's bows for them. It really is all about how much you put into learning the sport of archery, from tuning to shooting.

A.S

Sonny Thomas
07-30-2013, 10:06 PM
Meant only in jest, but yes, there are those who take a more serious archery undertaking.
Most all kinds of knots are simple and is the ole block and tackle compound bow and the only way to find out simple is to get your feet wet. How to serve and what to use is pretty simple - Use your own bow and a chunk of thin rope or thick string - just practice some place on the bare bow string.

At one time I had pictures in here of how to relax a Martin bow completely in order to change strings or to twist strings. Just back off the limb bolts so to just see through the barrel nut, draw bow a bit and use a stiff arrow or padded long screw driver to lock the cam (s) back to the limbs so to keep strings and cables floppy loose.

Like Barry, but a step more, I have a real hard time shooting a new bow today and say it's better than my retired 2000 Hoyt UltraTec. Accuracy wise, no bow back then and all through up today's bests it. If there is anything better it's a lot of today's bows are able to achieve blazing speed at less draw weight and less draw length. Like Barry, I've had my share of health and injury issues and that lesser draw weight sure is nice. I can still draw my 70 pound bows, but I never used 70 pounds when I could pull 70 pounds all day along. At 62 pounds I had to de-tune it to be legal in NFAA events (prior to the now 300 fps limit). And now something of a hair over 55 pounds with arrows used my Shadowcat and MarXman easily gets 280+ fps. My Pearson would have to be lowered more if a went with a legal IBO arrow as it nails 296.4 fps.

otisT
07-31-2013, 05:51 PM
You've all hit on, or at least around, the basic theme of the other thread I started; us 'commoners' have no conception of all the intricacies involved in bow strings, let alone the rest of the rig. The 'commoner' - let's use 'hobbyist' - buys a golf club, he/she expects to have to tweak himself, just as in archery, but doesn't expect to, nor is capable of 'tweaking' the club. Bet those deep into the sport can and do. We hobbyist expect equipment we buy to work out of the box, including the strings; we expect the Cam and bearings to be 'right'. Oh sure, we have to learn the basics of tuning and such, but to know all Sonny and you others know about the finer points and how to work them, is just beyond us. It's a hobby, and few take their hobby to the depth you all do; we just can't, work and family, time constraints. Sure, any can and many, I'm sure, do reserve their own strings; I even reserved the end of a cable, but to diagnose and be able to cure something like Sonny talked about in the starting post; uneven cable ends, re stretching them and all, that just takes expertise beyond what the typical 'hobbyist' has or aspires to have. Take it to a bow shop, IF you have one handy; the hobbyist would look at the strings that just 'blew up' on him, consider the cost of having a set of strings he'd still be worried about re-done, and he'd buy a new set. The set Sonny re-built that 'still have lots of shots left in them'; they'd be gone and Hutch'd be smiling. lol Same with cams and other components; not only is diagnosing a problem beyond us, the cure certainly is. Now, know this; a 'hobbyist' can have a good basic understanding of his equipment; enough to keep it running right IF it's built right to start with, he can be a whale of a shot and have a PHD in deer behavior, he can have freezers full of game he's expertly butchered, cut and wrapped himself. Ol' Hobbyist can be more expert in other aspects of the sport. He may enjoy other aspects as well as you all enjoy the technical aspects. You'll 'learn' what you enjoy. Anyway, as capable as I am to diagnose the weird wear in my Cougar's strings and the cut thread in the cable is that it may have to do with a short bow and longish draw length. That's as far as my string expertise goes.


As an afterthought; "At the shop I removed the serving of both cables and stretched the cables. The uneven cable evened out completely. Both were reserved with different serving material. All put back on the Shadowcat I lost about 5 fps, the different material robbing velocity, Still, 285 down to 280 fps was no big deal. The bow shoots great…"

Are you sure those are Hammerhead strings or are they, perhaps, Sonny strings that have held up so well? Sounds like all you used was the original cable material, the building back correctly from there on up was all Sonny.

Interesting, to me anyway, thread, btw; the old and new mix, I always find interesting. I have more time nowadays to delve deeper into my hobby, I just don't know if I have the capacity to learn much of what you all have to teach! lol..... o

Just came to me that title might be taken wrong; I'm jokingly referring to me; the rambler on'er!

bfisher
07-31-2013, 07:10 PM
You have brought up some very valid points Otis. There are many people who don't understand how compound bows work and don't want to learn. I would differ with you somewhat about time constraints, though. I'm a dedicated DIY person and don't believe in paying anybody for something I can do or learn to do myself. At first it was out of the need to save money. Later, as I gained experience with tools and confidence it became a challenge to accomplish something with my two hands and learn in the process. It's not just archery. It's almost everything in my life. For instance, at the age of 60 I put a new roof on my house (shingles). I'm not a carpenter, but I have a hammer and know how to drive a nail into wood. I had a choice of paying a contractor $4400 to do it or do it myself for less than $700. Sure, I thought I was going to die and it took me 6 days, but $3700 (what I saved) isn't too shabby for a week of work.

I got off track about time constraints. When I was young I was paying for a house, raising two kids, shooting archery, mowing the lawn, home and auto repairs, and all the other things some men do. All this stuff after working an average of 63 hours a week and sometimes more. Still, I had time for my hobbies. Of course these were days long before the internet so no computer time and not much watching TV. I was always on the go. Lived on 4 to hours sleep for years as it was all I need. So what I'm saying is that it's not always a matter of having the time. It's just what we're doing during that slack time. People have different interests and I respect that. And as you put it nicely, that's why there are archery shops.

You can differ with me if you like, and I would respect that too. This is just an explanation of how I lived my earlier years. Now that I'm 66 and retired I need about 6 1/2 hours sleep a day and not raising kids, etc, and don't have enough time in a day to do what I need to get done. LOL. Uh, maybe this laptop and the TV have something to do with it, LOL. Things change during one's life.

Barry

otisT
07-31-2013, 09:08 PM
I hope we all had the thrill of 'having' to hustle at sometime in our early lives. I wish the younger generations could have the advantage of having the 'wolf' pounding on the door and they having to get out of it on their own. And, yes, DYI is fun; a hobby in and of itself. I used to like re-loading ammo, back in the single press days, better than I liked shooting it.

"Still, I had time for my hobbies" <--- 'at dare is what I was talking about; the younger generation that is out there making America, most all are or should be bow hunters (smiles), do they want to take valuable time away from those hobbies. Would you, at that tender time in life, have felt the time better spent, rare and very limited free hobby time, shooting your bow or studying up on all the finer points of bow string idiosyncrasies? I don't know what caused my strings to age so quickly, but do know it'd take me probably ten years to become competent enough an expert to analyze everything and figure it out; I ain't got ten years!! lol

I DO know what caused me to age so quickly; Wild Women, Wild Turkey and cigarettes !! Ahh well, actually.... Woman only allowed me to partake in the later two of those things, with extreme moderation on the Turk'.... lol

Sonny Thomas
07-31-2013, 09:17 PM
Are you sure those are Hammerhead strings or are they, perhaps, Sonny strings that have held up so well? Sounds like all you used was the original cable material, the building back correctly from there on up was all Sonny.


I guess the above is a question. Yes, they are Hammerhead strings, two tone black and green, on a 2011 Martin Shadowcat. Removing the servings of the cable allowed me to stretch and even out the cable. I did untwist a bit so to make evening out easier. Now, stretching is no big deal and you dont't need a stretcher and you don't need 100, 200 or 300 pounds of stretch. I have a nail drove in the end of the counter top. I slip one end loop over the nail and then use a matching nail (same size a cam cable post) and pull the cable tight. Pulled tight I then sort of angle the nail down into the wood counter top and use the nail as lever to stretch just as best I can. The uneven cable evened out. The correct twists were put in to give the correct length of the cable. I moved the cable around to use a bar as leverage to keep tension of the cable so I could serve. That's all I did.

Now, Martin's serving was unknown and I just grabbed what we had at the shop, .021" BCY if I remember correctly. Someone said Hammerhead strings have .019 and of Halo type. Whatever the difference I lost a bit of speed. Again, no big deal.

A spoon of serving material can go a long, long, (???) long, long ways and something of $15 or $16 a spool. So the center serving comes loose, separates and for pennys you can reserve it. Same with bows strings and cables. So the servings separate, big deal. Reserve them. Why shuck out $50 to $110 for a set of strings? If you mess up, big deal. Do it again. I do center servings for $8.00 and ends for $10.00.
Now, you only need to reserve what ends that need it. So say the center serving and one end and $18.00and you're back on the road. No ordering or waiting on a new set of strings.

Serving material and size can be known with a phone call.

Serving a peep is a piece of cake and just about anything strong enough and not as thick as a clothes line will work. I carry a length of .020" of BCY in my carry bag and a spoon of "serving" taken from my wife's sewing cabinet. Price tag is marked 29 cents. Yep, good ole Button & Carpet thread. Comes in colors and for the same price, 29 cents ;) I also use Button & Carpet thread for tying tied string nocks.
Yep, I'm cheap ;) But then normally I use .015" mini serving. I also have two spools 452X string material and it works great for serving in peeps. Dennis, on another site, said I should be good for about 5000 servings of peeps ;) Oh, I don't and I won't build strings, so why I'm using up the 452X. Black matches a lot of strings and green goes well with the camo type strings.

Now, Barry and I didn't learn all we know over night or within a year or two or three for that matter.

All is simple if you just take your time. Bow timed correctly or single cam oriented properly and brace height and axle to axle is specs are ball park. Close, but still ball park. Axle to axle is more based on the bow's listed max draw weight. IE, axle to axle maybe 1/4" short or a 1/4" long, but if max listed draw weight is present you're good to go. Cam oriented properly or cams in time axle to axle set to give listed max draw weight there is no need to adjust brace height, it is what it is. Charts show specs, but charts don't give what the industry tolerance is for each spec. Told to me first hand, axle to axle can have a tolerance of +/- 3/8". I won't tell you that the individual was a Hoyt Customer Service Manager. How'd I find out? New strings and trying to get to ata specs had my bow heading for 80 pounds. Took a "bench man" to find out the correct ata. Bench men were going by floor specs and someone screwed up writing the spec charts.
Of course, the +/- 3/16" tolerance is sure held a lot closer. And really amazing considering all the dimensions of everything, riser (length, angle), limb pockets, limbs.

Tiller and tiller tuning. Forget it. Rarely as in rarely ever is tiller a concern. And with parallel bows tiller isn't the easiest thing to measure. Tiller tuning is for someone who knows what they are doing and wanting bow reaction to suit them.

And if you've read some of my Posts, I R the black sheep of setting up a bow. Rule #1 - Don't drive yourself nuts with all the tuning procedures.... By some I throw my bows together. The only thing is my bows are accurate enough to get the job done and some just plain hate that ;)

Hey, guys. I made a correction. 3/16" not the 3/8" that I had. Went back and found Tom's email to me.

otisT
07-31-2013, 10:04 PM
My point was more that they could be considered 'Sonny Strings' because you did the building on the strings that held up. Yes, you started with Martin strings, Martin colors and all; THEN you stripped 'em down like a rusty Dodge and rebuilt them from the ground up. YOU, imo, built them; moot point though... lol

daiwateampenn
08-19-2013, 05:12 PM
thanks for the info shared.

mxtuner1
03-02-2014, 11:48 AM
I have a little bit different archery route. Had three children and son had great idea we all go to the archery club and shoot together. That was 20 years ago. I always wanted to shoot archery, kept hearing about a respected shooter's Martin Cougar Magnum that you had to wait to get one and was rifle like fast, not just a 40 yarder, great for the treeless plains we live in. Anyway, I never got the nerve to pull the trigger on the new wanted Martin, just settled for a "free" Bear whitetail that was 30 inch draw and 80 lbs. Shot it in our local "paper" target 3d and did okay. Still can't believe I scaled that bow back that much. Luckily I was into weight lifting but only weighed 165 lbs but my bodyfat was 6.3%. Anyhow, as the kids aged the girls (2) lost interest and Son wanted guns so we went that route and I dropped archery for 15 years. Like Barry, (good man!), I was burning the candle at both ends worked for YEARS only getting 8-12 hours off from work with no days off except for vacation. Being an Engineer by trade, I got into rifle benchrest shooting and did very well, designing my own cartridges and the like. Sometimes I had to "LIE-off" to get to go to matches, but it made me feel really guilty. Thought nothing of $4000 rifles, had 5 at one time. But ended up dropping archery and shooting to spend time with family for family things for ALL members. After last child finally was preparing to go to college, wife chose to divorce me, and on day of finding out sheriff came to door and walked with me to my bedroom to get clothing only. By the time the judge was done...I was below zero in finances, all savings gone, saddled with all the debt, my $1000 car needed a $3500 transmission. I once went for 2 weeks eating only 3 meals, because I was too stubborn to ask for help from family because I thought I would fight my way back. Anyhow, I never say anything negative about my children's mother to them and after 8 years since divorce, basically all my children think the world of me and only talk to their Mom occasionally. Since all guns magically disappeared after the sheriff escorted me outside, I felt I could not afford to replace my guns and gave it up. Adult son got me back into archery, and guess what? I enjoy it more than benchrest and my new wife and and son in law and daughter and my son and 2 grandchildren all shoot 3d. It is much more of a challenge, but I really enjoy the mechanical side of it. I get to help pre teens and teens and even more adults at our beautiful range, and to tune bows for people from all over the country. I have met the perfect woman for me, absolutely, and she loves me to no end and man is she something to look at and behold. I truly am blessed, and she chose to take up archery too. After reading about the Martin Nitrous cam here on AT, and from being an engineer, there is very little improvement that could be made to that design, so I am a fanboy. I have since recovered financially, have the best wife, children (they ALL make more than I do!) but still love me, and now have the sweetest grandchildren ever. My 11 year old granddaughter was shooter of the year for our local club, and my eyes welled up with tears when after receiving the award at the banquet she came to me and said "Grandpa, I have my first ever tears of JOY! All because of you!" There is no better sport for families, and I am building my granddaughter a Martin Tigress right now as we speak. Some of the parts I got from Barry, and he almost gave them to me since he knew they were for my granddaughter. Hutch helped design the perfect strings, And Hutchett did her typical perfect job on them. All I can say is there is no better forum than this one, and I am meeting new very kind people everyday on here.

bfisher
03-02-2014, 12:17 PM
Mark, all I can say is-----WOW. Thanks for sharing. I mean that from the heart.

mxtuner1
03-02-2014, 12:53 PM
Jim

Sonny Thomas
03-02-2014, 01:07 PM
mixtuner1, gotta admit that's one big hill to climb. Beat down and struggled on up to the top. Awesome.... All the best to you....

otisT
03-02-2014, 01:58 PM
Jim (If that's REALLY your name!! lol), reading your post, I was for some reason reminded of listening to the news for several days, many years ago, as a group climbed a mountain in California - El Capitan, perhaps? Taking a previously untried route or something? Can't remember the specifics, was probably forty years ago. Anyway, the radio news followed their progress every news broadcast until they finally reached the top then there were news people and camera men there already, to cover their final reaching of the top. In other words, there were a lot easier ways to get to the top of the mountain. You may have taken the harder route, but as long as you make it, it doesn't matter much, does it.
The best in all things, to you... o

mxtuner1
03-02-2014, 02:42 PM
Thank you otisT...of course there is a lot more, but you know what? I am very happy right now. I have worked at the same place for 36 years almost and a gent from another town got in my face screaming about something I did not do. A few years ago I might have asked him to go outside and discuss it man to man. Now I just let him ramble on, and on, then told him I didn't appreciate his language and then walked to my hotel. On the walk, 3 times I wanted to go back and make an attitude adjustment. But I tried to think of the negatives he was having in his life and I thought I hope things get better for him. I am not going to waste beautiful good days and let others try to bring my days down. The "mountain" I climbed I hope I never get complacent and not strive to go higher. In my mid 50's I feel like a teenager again, I have the best relationships ever, and look forward to every day. I still feel like a newlywed, been 8 years, divorced 9.5 years. Wife actually likes the fact when I come home from work. Grandkids fight over who gets to go to Grandpa's. (No restriction...come all,lol.) Named engineer of the year out of 1400 engineer's 3 years in a row. Invented a variable flow propane injection for diesel trucks that works as good as I planned. Could go on and on but there is always a bright light at the end of the tunnel. And my name is JIM!

Arrow Splitter
03-02-2014, 08:59 PM
Thanks for sharing Jim, and I know I for one am glad you joined this forum.:)

A.S

mxtuner1
03-03-2014, 07:28 AM
Thanks for sharing Jim, and I know I for one am glad you joined this forum.:)

A.S
Thank you so much A.S.

elkslayer4x5
03-03-2014, 10:15 AM
I am aslo glad that I've cyber met you, even more so after the things you've shared in this thead. Sometime adverisity brings out the best in people. Thanks for being here Jim!