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bigbull1
02-29-2008, 09:45 AM
Just got my new 08 Bengal back from the bow shop where I had it set to 29 1/2" and 65lbs. As I am sighting it in, the first thing I notice is after every shot the string twist with the peep and d-loop from an eighth to a quarter turn and after ten shots the string jax are gone!. My bow shop guy said I may want to put a Winners string on it when I picked it up. Is the factory string defective?

Any help appreciated.

Darrenhood
02-29-2008, 11:31 AM
Holey Schmokes!!

Did the jacks pinch in half, or just leave the string?

My '08 Bengal has fewer than maybe 300 shots on it. I was excited about the peep moving around too. I can't remember ever being so frustrated with a string.

I was getting ready to set that string on fire & do the Olympic bow toss. Then right after I went online & complained about it, it settled down & I'm realy happy with it now.

I've got my own press, so I could shoot it till I could no longer see thru the peep, press it & turn the string till the peep returned to a position where I could see thru it.

You can rotate your D loop to help pull the peep into alignment so you don't have to press it so often, untill the string settles down.

Now, from brace to full draw, it rotates about 30 degrees counter clockwise, then rotates right back as I let down. This is with the D loop pointing straight back at brace, no longer using it to pull the peep into alignment.

With the peep at about 7:30/8:00 viewed from above, it rotates to about 5 or 5:30, perfect enough to see thru, then rotates back to 7:30 when returning to brace height.

You can twist the string to get the peep close, then slide it up or down a little to fine tune it. I didn't have to, but some folks have seperated the string differently. I'm drawing a blank for the right words, but basicaly moving a couple strands from the left to the right side of the peep & moving an equal # from right to left, rotating the peep within the string.


This is the first time I've ever tried NOT tieing in my peep sight, it's just pinched in the string. It won't move unless I move it.

My string needed more twists in it than what it came out of the box with. Mine's set at a little higher poundage too & I haven't lost the jacks.

Maybe lower poundage, a realy slick string & not enough twists let those jacks squirt right out.

Bfisher on here said the string should make a full turn in 1 & 1/2 inch or less. Mines wound up tighter than that now.

bigbull1
02-29-2008, 12:11 PM
I can't find the jax, and would think they just flew off somewhere.

The bow tech tied my peep in, whether that makes any difference or not. My peep and Dloop rotates to the right about an eigth of a turn or facing 3-4oclock, and I have moved the Dloop back in line with the peep.

Maybe I just should keep shooting it until the string settles down. Have some patience since you indicate your bow string settled with time.

I like the feel of the bow, and do not feel much vibration compared to my old Mathews.

I am not sure about Bfisher's comment on the "string making a full turn in under 1 & 1/2 inch or less". I am not a seasoned archer so I am learning every day.

Thanks for your reply.

Ed

Darrenhood
02-29-2008, 01:53 PM
I shot it maybe 10 shots every day after work for about a week. Didn't take long. It went from no sign of stopping to locking up tight overnight.

I'm a little slow to figure things out sometimes. It might not take long at all if you can get the peep rotated to the left where you cannot see thru it & as drawn, it rotates to where you can see thru it.

You should buy a $45 portable bow press. Especialy for times like this. Unhook the string from the cam & give it a half turn. Half turn at one end can make 1/4 turn at the peep.

Funny how anyone can walk into an auto parts store & buy brake and steering components for their car without being pressured into having a qualified pro do the work. Repairing systems that can kill other people if they goof up.

Seem to get more resistance when it comes having work like this done on your bow. Frequently the guy behind the counter is a low wage infatuated rookie.

You're already a do it yourselfer, hunting with a bow of all things, otherwise you'd buy your meat at the store.

bigbull1
02-29-2008, 04:11 PM
I called Martin and they said that the string should stop twisting after a short break in period. They also stated the string jax should have been tied in by the bow shop.

So I will shoot it for a week or two and go from there. I will look into getting a bow press and replace the string jax.

Did you put on a stabilizer and what kind if you did?

Thanks for your replies.

Ed

bfisher
02-29-2008, 04:53 PM
Hey Ed,

Been reading about your problem. Got a question. Is the bow brand new? I mean, how many shots are on it? It might take a couple hundred shots to get the string to settle down.

Darren mentioned what I suggest about how many twists are in the string. I'm not a string builder, but I usually shoot custom strings and notice that most of them are really twisted up. Whereas some factory strings come with only a few twists in them most custom strings come with a full twist for about every 1 1/2" of string length. This is fairly easy to see if you have any kind of ruler and a two color string.

Strings that are twisted enough do several good things. They help keep the peep and string jacks in the string, and in place. It makes the bow more quiet. It makes the strands in the string settle more quickly and work as a unit, which means the string won't creep (most people say stretch) so the bow stays in tune longer and the draw length doesn't get longer. It also helps eliminate the peep turning. Another thing is that serving separation around the cam module will not happen.

Let me explain it this way. Strings are made by wrapping a strand form a spool around pins on a jig. Maybe 10 times for a 20 strand string. Being human, we don't wrap every loop with the same pressure, thus some strands are looser than others. When the string is completed those loose strands will be longer than the tight ones. When put under pressure from the bow the short strands perform most of the work till, over time they creep enough that all the strands are doing equal work. On some strings this may take a year or more and during this time the string may creep an inch or more. During this time the draw length gets longer and the draw weight goes up, meaning the bow changes it's tune. During this time the peep will keep changing position slowly, too.

Now, all this being said, I have found Martin strings to be pretty good the last couple years. I've also heard from others that didn't have such luck. It may be a hit or miss thing or it could be that people don't know how to make adjustments to help themselves.

OK, here's some advice. I have used strings from 3 string makers over the last few years. Winner's Choice, Prostrings, and Bucknasty. WC's cost around $100 a set. Prostrings are good and somewhat less expensive. Bucknasty on www.archerytalk.com makes strings with better quality than WC's for about $60 a set. So PM him or do a search in the classified for custom strings and you'll find others.

Bucknasty is the user name for John Mraz. You get to pick any two colors you want and the material to be used. I usually get mine made from BCY 8125 for target and/or 3D bows. I would recommend BCY 452X for any hunting bow as it's a little more stabile than 8125. Now this is just if and when you decide to change your rigging. And I highly recommend choosing purple/pink---LOL.

For now, see how many twists are in your Helix strings and get them adjusted if necessary. Also, if the bow is brand new, take the peep out for a hundred shots or so, then reinstall it.

As Darren said, get you a Bowmaster press so you can work on your bow. It'll save you a lot of trips to the shop and you'll learn what makes these bow tick. They are very simple really. A few basic tools and you can do all your own work.

I've learned from mistakes over the years, but can say in 35+ years of shooting compounds I've never had any work done by anybody but me. No, I don't always get it right the first time---or the second time even, but it gets to be fun learning. And challenging at times.

You ever have any questions all you have to do is ask---anything, anytime. I'm on here at least every day unless I'm scuba diving in the Caribbean somewhere. If you don't feel comfortable posting publicly you can always PM me.

Barry

Darrenhood
03-01-2008, 11:00 AM
Just an update.

Now that my string is settled down, and twisted to about 1 turn in an inch or less, my peep sits about 6:30 at brace and rotates to 5:30 at full draw. Or even less movement than that.

Probably the wildest string I've had out of the box, but it keeps getting better & now it's better than my old Mathews strings.

So hang in there, the best is yet to come.

Barry might get a little grumpy when he's injured & can't shoot his bow, so do I, but he's the best help you can ask for.

I finaly smartened up & switched to Martin & he's been standing there waiting to help.

Darrenhood
03-01-2008, 12:38 PM
About the stabilizer?

Forgot the model, it's a Sims modular unit with metal rings around rubber doughnuts. Comes with 3 doughnuts, I put on 2 more with a Sims S-Coil on the end of that. Pretty lengthy, nothing permanent, but it works.

Our bows came with UNweighted VEM units. I ordered the weighted VEM's from the online store.

Wiggling rubber absorbs some vibration, but I believe (substantial) weight at the opposite end of the rubber from the source of the vibration deadens thing quicker. The weight constantly moves in the opposite direction of the source of the vibration, bringing everything back to center quicker.

I had considered drilling out the original VEM & pushing a piece of 3/8 steel round stock, or old cow magnets, into them for some weight.

bigbull1
03-05-2008, 10:55 AM
I have less than 200 shots with the new Bengal. The more I shoot it, I can see the string starting to settle. What type of peep do you use. I have read great comments about the G5 Meta peep. I am also considering a STS string suppressor.

Thanks for your help, Ed

bfisher
03-05-2008, 03:00 PM
I have less than 200 shots with the new Bengal. The more I shoot it, I can see the string starting to settle. What type of peep do you use. I have read great comments about the G5 Meta peep. I am also considering a STS string suppressor.

Thanks for your help, Ed

If the string is settling then it may be creeping some, too. Mark the side of your cam where it passes through the limb fork so you have a visual reference. Helix strings are not supposed to do this, but it doesn't hurt to mark the cam. If the string does creep the draw length may get longer and the weight may go up. It depends on how much the cable creeps with the string.

NOW, what kind of peep? Tubeless, off course. For 30 years or so I've used Flethcer True Peeps. They're good and they work, and come in different sizes from 1/16" to at least 1/4".

I also have several Specialty Archery ball peeps. These are nice because they are threaded and you can get different diameter inserts so you can encompass the guard on your sight. The only drawback is they cost more and weigh a bit more. They may slow the bow down 1-2 fps. Who cares?

Recently I purchased a G5 in the 5/16" size to try in my new FireCat, which just arrived today. The G5 is machined magnesium so should be lighter than aluminum, meaning a couple fps---maybe. From everything I've read from guys that have used them you have to be careful not to serve to close above and below them. Too much string pressure can cause them to crush, thus making them an oval shape.

Come to think of it I'll probably use the G5 in my target bow. I already have the string twisted down pretty tight on the FireCat. I'll use a Specialty in it. Enough twists and I don't have to serve it anyway.

You have an '08 Bengal, right? Is it drilled on the back of the riser below the grip for an STS? If so then you can order one of Martin's models. You most likely won't see them in the on-line store because they are new. Take a look at a picture of the FireCat. It comes standard on the FireCat. It's a neater fit and less money than an STS. Of course the STS can be moved to another bow if you change bows. 6 one way/ half dozen of the other.

Darrenhood, you better quit picking on me. I can shoot. I just can't handle much weight right now. I'm slowly working my way back up. Jast auhust I was struggling with 15#. Well, I drew the FireCat at 42# today. The limbs peak at 50# or so. I didn't weigh it right out of the box. Specs don't mean anything to me anyway. I set the bow up and tune it the way I want it anyway. Then I measure everything and that's the specs I have.

Oh, it took about 2 1/2" hours to set up and tune the FireCat. It's only sighted in for 20 yards right now. Too cold and windy to try longer just now.

Oh, and thanks for the kind words. I'm only here to help others and possibly even learn from them. It's fun helping others.

Darrenhood
03-05-2008, 04:23 PM
never pick on you, only tease. That's is #$&@&%$ great you're drawing enough bow to kill something with again!!!! Good news !!!

bigbull1
03-05-2008, 05:39 PM
Where do you find the Martin STS to order? I am going to try the G5 Meta peep and will be careful not to smish it. What do you use if anything to quiet the strings; jax, cat whiskers?

Thank you again and how to you like the Firecat?

Ed

bfisher
03-05-2008, 09:57 PM
Well, I just took the FireCat out of the box about noon today. I took my bow square and aligned it with the bottom of the berger hole and tied on a nock set (I don't use a loop) 3/16" above square. Mounted a SuperStar rest that is converted to a lizard tongue. Grabbed the Hogg-It of my Pantera and mounted it. Eyeballed the rest for centershot. Adjusted the modules from their 29" setting down to 26" setting and turned the wweight down to where I could handle it. Checked the weight (37# peak&holding 7#) and draw length on my drawing board and the draw length was 1/2" too long so I put 10 twists in the string. Now it's good to go.

Went out to the archery club and shot outside. It grouped well and so I sighted it in at 15 yards. No peep installed. Just relying on anchor.

Went indoors tonite and shot a while. Installed a peep nd to get god orientation took 1/2 twist out of the string and shot some more. During this time the bow seemed to go out of whack, shooting high. It was then that I noticed the draw stop pad on the limb had compressed allowing me to draw about 1/4" longer. Guess that's why it felt so funny. Readjusted the stop and shot some more. Continually was shooting about 1 1/2" groups at 20 yards, good for me at this point.

Although no chrono was available I could tell the bow is fast. Just an estimate, but it should be about 250-255 fps, but that's only at 35#.

The finish is very good on this bow. The balance is good and the mass weight pleases me. I'll probably try a half dozen more rests on the thing, but for now I'd have to rate it about an 8 on a scale of 1-10.

I'm still not sold on the short A2A and acute string angle. I'll probably adjust, but not comfortable with it yet.

Now I have a little incentive to hit the gym and get some of my deltoids back.

bfisher
03-05-2008, 10:14 PM
Oops, forgot. I've gone through all the info I have and the Martin STS isn't shown although I'm sure they have a flyer out showing it. Ed, you're probably best off to call customer service about it or PM PUG over on www.archerytalk.com.

Darrenhood
04-01-2008, 09:51 AM
My string stretched enough again that I had to twist it to get the peep back into alignment. And, I've never quite had as much exposed string groove on the cam, like we've talked about, so... I twisted the heck out of it. Probably 1 turn in 3/4 inch, maybe less. and let a turn out of the cable.

Can there be too much twist?

The peep is close to being completely encapsulated in string.

Got maybe 1/2 inch of string groove showing where string leaves the cam.

Reset the nock height & flung a few shafts, but gotta do the long range sight in again.

I'm patient enough to wait all day for an animal that never walks by, but I wonder if I'm being too patient with this string?

bfisher
04-01-2008, 01:23 PM
My string stretched enough again that I had to twist it to get the peep back into alignment. And, I've never quite had as much exposed string groove on the cam, like we've talked about, so... I twisted the heck out of it. Probably 1 turn in 3/4 inch, maybe less. and let a turn out of the cable.

Can there be too much twist?

The peep is close to being completely encapsulated in string.

Got maybe 1/2 inch of string groove showing where string leaves the cam.

Reset the nock height & flung a few shafts, but gotta do the long range sight in again.

I'm patient enough to wait all day for an animal that never walks by, but I wonder if I'm being too patient with this string?

I think I'd get a set of Bucknasty's and be done with it. Keep the factory string for backup. Hey Darren, you wouldn't have to play with nocking point location if you were shooting a dual cam setup.

Do yourself a favor. Once you have the bow set where you want it take a pencil and draw a line on the side of the cam nearest the limb fork. Both front and back of the limb. Then you'll be able to see if the string is creeping. I used to actually scribe a line with the point of a knife, but pencil works fine.

Can't quite comprehend what you mean about having so much string groove showing. This would have to mean you have too many twists in the string in relation to the cable, which also means a shorter draw length. You can twist things up, but to maintain the draw length you have to do both the cable and the string to maintain the same cam orientation (reason for the pencil line).

Barry

Darrenhood
04-01-2008, 03:32 PM
I knew I'd loose a little DL to get the cam oriented where I wanted it, but it might have been a scoach too long before that, so it fits good now.

Since day one the shoot string was right up against the end of the groove in the cam. As I've twisted up the string to maintain peep location, I've gained a little exposed groove each time, but not much.

The serving has a little fuzzy spot where it still hammers against the end of the string groove.

I prefer to roll a cam the OTHER way, more poundage & DL, but now I think the string won't wack the flat part of the cam & might be quieter.

I can make up the lost performance with :DHEAVIER LIMBS!:D