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CLT Bluesman
03-25-2014, 09:32 PM
I was at Wal-Mart today and I got a box of 6 Carbon Express "Speed Freak" arrows for 30 dollars. Anybody ever shot these? Over in AT one person said they were equivalent to CE Maxima Hunter. I looked on the CE website, and the Speed Freaks were not listed. They were 30 inch 55-70 lb. They had "Blazer" fletchings, 2 inch I think. Just curious if any of you had any experience with these. I have not bought arrows in 30 years. I went to Bass Pro shops today also, and I looked at the arrows there. I could not believe the price. Almost 80 dollars a box for most of them, and the Red Maxima were over a 100 a box. I got some aluminum arrows refletched recently and the box I had them in still had the price sticker on them. $12.99. It cost me more to have them refletched than I paid for them! I had to have them refletched because the fletch had dryrotted and was in crumbs. This post is more like a ramble then a question. Gotta get back on topic. Speed freaks. How do y'all like em?

Hutch~n~Son Archery
03-26-2014, 04:19 AM
I got a dozen of them for Christmas they seem to be very accurate. No problems with them at all.
9166


Hutch

Sonny Thomas
03-26-2014, 08:53 AM
Ain't kickin' the arrows, but..... Seems every year I get more and more ticked off at Carbon Express. They gives a new paint job, slap a different name on and Presto, said to be a New arrow..... 8.9 grs per inch? Speed Freak? How'd they come up with a name like this?

CLT Bluesman
03-26-2014, 09:10 AM
I was wondering about the broadhead on this arrow making it front end heavy. I use 30 yr old wasp cam-locs that weigh about 140 grains. They are nice. Stainless 4 blade. I am thinking about the slick trick. I think they come in at 100 gr. I am probably overthinking this. I never thought about these kinds of things flinging my old xx75 2216. Veritable logs.

Sonny Thomas
03-26-2014, 09:46 AM
I'd say you would be pushing the limits of the spine. Said a lot is a insert and 125 grs nudges the spine....

elkslayer4x5
03-26-2014, 11:12 AM
I was wondering about the broadhead on this arrow making it front end heavy. I use 30 yr old wasp cam-locs that weigh about 140 grains. They are nice. Stainless 4 blade. I am thinking about the slick trick. I think they come in at 100 gr. I am probably overthinking this. I never thought about these kinds of things flinging my old xx75 2216. Veritable logs.

Even though those ole Wasps weigh in at 140 gr, on those Speed Freak arrows, you have a high foc, but they'll still be lighter than the 2216's you were shooting, Bet that they'll work. :)


Ain't kickin' the arrows, but..... Seems every year I get more and more ticked off at Carbon Express. They gives a new paint job, slap a different name on and Presto, said to be a New arrow..... 8.9 grs per inch? Speed Freak? How'd they come up with a name like this?
With a name like that, why all the bowhunter's who wander into Wally's world once a year to pick up new arrows for their yearly hunt will be thinking " boy, I'll just bet these are gonna be super fast" :)

Ehunter
03-26-2014, 07:41 PM
I'm sure CE makes good arrows, but I always have to laugh at the marketing. Saw a video a few years ago about their "dual spine weight forward" design. A guy took an arrow, cut it perfectly in half. Both halves weighed the same. Put them on a spine tester, and both registered the same spine. After that, I stopped paying attention to CE. To me, a "fast arrow" should be around 5-6 gpi. The 8,9 is what I use for deer hunting. lol

elkslayer4x5
03-27-2014, 09:50 AM
What Ehunter said!!

CLT Bluesman
03-27-2014, 10:14 AM
I am not the sharpest broadhead in the the quiver!! What does "high foc" mean.

Sonny Thomas
03-27-2014, 10:51 AM
I'm sure CE makes good arrows, but I always have to laugh at the marketing. Saw a video a few years ago about their "dual spine weight forward" design. A guy took an arrow, cut it perfectly in half. Both halves weighed the same. Put them on a spine tester, and both registered the same spine. After that, I stopped paying attention to CE. To me, a "fast arrow" should be around 5-6 gpi. The 8,9 is what I use for deer hunting. lol

Not entirely true, the weight thing and this goes back a ways. First, CE's all camo coated arrow of years past. Neat looking, but unnecessary as black got the job done, so a marketing ploy that seems to have paid off. BUT! When fletching arrows the camo took a beating by either being scraped off or cleaning solvents turning the camo to mush. Oh yeah, that looks good :mad:

So next came the Hunter with only the forward 3/4 or 2/3s of the arrow camo... That then camo weighed some and where at? The forward part of the arrow. Back then we could scrub off all the camo and have a lighter arrow. And I still have some of them. I forget exactly when the CX line was fazed out with the coming of the Maxima and Maxima Hunter, .7 grs difference in weight. The CXs replaced and on sale I bought a bunch. Anyway, farther on, say around 2007 or 2008 CE upped the weight of the Maxima line. The charts lie.... Not once have I found a Maxima arrow in either 250 or 350 that will weigh as little as the CX line... I can't get a Maxima 250, not a lone a 250 Hunter, down to the 314 grs. I could get a CX200 down to. I could find out exactly, but not at the shop to weigh out all. For sure not even down to 350 grs. My finished Select CX300s weighed 375 grs throughout the first dozen I first bought. And then the finding of matched dozen of arrows don't weigh the same as the next matched dozen. Arrows are packed by weight and straightness. I have CX300s dozens that vary as such, 375 grs, 378 grs in the Select line and 380 grs and 383 grs. in the CX300 standard line. Nice back then was Rebels, standard and Select. The CXL line was introduced and this when I switched to them. Today, CE has 22 models of arrows.

Of note; I've probably told of this before; I ordered a dozen CX300 Selects. The stupid archery department attendants got in several dozen and broke open the packages and threw them in the bin....:mad: I called for the store manager and explained the issue. He didn't believe me and I had him call Carbon Express. When he was through with the call he turned to me and said he would have a new dozen in a couple of days. Yes, package by weight and straightness... He then told the attendants to never again break open a box or package of arrows again. Well, I was at this store the other day and again they have arrow bins. When I went to work at the shop I saw stand up bins and told the boss right off that this was wrong. I had to weigh arrows to prove to him that they weigh different. I spent a day weighing and sorting arrows by weight. So I had original boxed arrows which was great and I had boxed weighed arrows and I had a section for customers to buy the one or two arrows they wanted. I would not sell one arrow from the boxed ones. A customer bought a dozen or a half dozen, period.

And today, if I were to buy a CE it would be the Mayhem black shafts and no bulldog collar and be quite happy...I think....

I was baffled when people on AT began raving of the Reds, the Blues and the Mayhems. Enter the dual spine. You know, it's all nuts. The old CX series did all that the Named arrows do today. Beings I still use CX300s I can probably prove it....

Two pics. This a good enough group for 30 yards? How many remember yellow stencil?

Ehunter
03-27-2014, 02:49 PM
CLT, the term FOC stands for Front Of Center. It's a measure of where the center of balance is in relation to the center of the shaft. For hunting, most people say 10-15% FOC. For targets I hear 7-15% alot. I know people that shoot outside those numbers alot though. One reason for a decent FOC number is, think of the point as pulling the arrow through the air, not the nock end pushing. The more front weight you have, the better flight and penetration you'll get within reason. Front weight will also weaken spine though, so it's a computation of sorts. I have some arrows that are in the 9-10% range, and some that are near 20%. If you look at any of the "bow speed calculators" on the net, most of them will have an arrow calculator as well. It's an easy way to figure out what FOC you have.

CLT Bluesman
03-27-2014, 06:20 PM
Ok, what about this thought? If you buy two different 1/2 dozen boxs of the same arrow that have allegedly been sorted by weight, well then your getting two different sets of arrows, not one dozen of the same arrows. So if you wanted to be totally uniform, then you would want to keep them separated. Does that make sense?

Arrow Splitter
03-27-2014, 07:03 PM
Ok, what about this thought? If you buy two different 1/2 dozen boxs of the same arrow that have allegedly been sorted by weight, well then your getting two different sets of arrows, not one dozen of the same arrows. So if you wanted to be totally uniform, then you would want to keep them separated. Does that make sense?
Totally. You're on the right track.

A.S

Tosi
03-27-2014, 07:28 PM
I have both the CE max hunters 350 and Deer Crossing 300 both at 9.5gpi. The max hunters are double the price of DCs. I shoot the DC better than I shot the CE. The max hunters clam weight forward. I will stick with DCs 300 .003 as I can get a dozen under $70.

Ehunter
03-27-2014, 07:43 PM
Here's another one. The original Victory small diameter arrows (Nano Force) were renamed the VAP's. Supposedly, that was all they did, rename them. Now if you go and weigh them, there's nearly a 15 gr. difference. Same size logo wrap, everything. Foolishly, I worked under the assumption that they were the same weight for about a year.

Sonny Thomas
03-27-2014, 08:04 PM
Six of one and half dozen of another ;) Check them for weight. A couple grains one way or another and one would be hard pressed to know the difference.

Matched grade target arrows are more than just the shaft. Don't mix components! Same inserts, same nocks run pretty much exact. Field points are known to vary in weight from the same package.... I have this tiny stand grinder and a dremel to make them suckers weigh right ;) . Too far off and they get pitched... In fact, I got so finicky I had match grade field points with Tungsten steel tips. I think 6 cost $25.00 way back when. If you want you can buy the Tool steel points for about $150 per dozen or the all Tungsten steel for $250 per dozen. How many you want? ;)

Vanes... I buy them by the 100 pack for a reason, uniformity. Colored vanes don't weigh the same. Yeah, not much, but some can tick you off and mostly when you're real finicky... I got over it, sort of, but at one time my target arrows wore the same color vanes, white all the way around. I still weigh vanes...

For target arrows I've had good luck. Most dozens weigh finished within .3 grs. and many times within .1 gr.

Grrrrrrrrrr! I didn't fletch at the time and got my first dozen CX300 Selects. So this V-Pres of this club fletched arrows. They came out terrible for uniform weight. Three times I had him fletch them and he finally got them right...He was using two different brands of vanes. How could I tell? They were two different lengths. All 4" vanes are not 4". One brand is 3.87" and my Bohnings were 4". Finally right, the finished dozen came out .1 gr low to high (375.0 to 375.1 grs.).

Grain scales. They can be had cheap, expensive or somewhere in the middle. I've got magnetic dampened Homac a bit more expensive. And I've got Herter's free float scale. I've got digital Black Box I bought on sale 4 $20.00. It's about the size of pack of cigarettes and it's a little finicky... First, it needs to be level. Anything weighed should be placed on the plate the same way. It weighs different than my main scale, the Homac, but is accurate within it's self. I can match them with a little persuasion - the Box can be calibrated... And then a warning for the little scale. You can burn it out if trying to weigh anything over 500 grains.... So pull the field point and most all arrows will fall under 500 grs.

CLT Bluesman
03-27-2014, 08:11 PM
I should have kept the ole triple beam I had back in my hippie days. Dog gone it.

elkslayer4x5
03-28-2014, 10:06 AM
I should have kept the ole triple beam I had back in my hippie days. Dog gone it.

Pick a reloading powder scale, you can get one for around 20-25 bucks on fleabay, put a little dent opposite the pour lip and it'll hold your arrows, most weigh up to 500 grains, and are very accurate.