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TEN RING
07-12-2014, 10:13 AM
Or paper tuning
I have found that if I get a good bullet hole 9 times out of 10 when I go out to walk back tune I don't have to move any thing.
Back when I first learned about paper tune the rules where witch what every way the tip was pointing move rest opposite now back then we didn't not have fall away rests, and you would have tail high and most likely tail left we would move the rest but we could not get out we would play with spring tensions on the rest it would help still trying to get that prefect hole we would start twisting the cables till we got it shooting that bullet and low and behold bow would shoot and group great, now on to the new age fall away arrow rests the old tail high problem is gone now we have tail low and left, most of the new bows have draw stops and or timing marks and not wanting to go back in time and use the twist up the cables there has to be something else going on has trying different spine as in did in the past nothing helped till one day I started playing with nocks how tight they would fit the serving (but everything I that was ever told about the way the nock should fit is that I was in good shape) so I would sand the arrow nocks a little at a time and run it thru paper starting to see a pattern now with the arrow nock fitting better and I have my bullet hole it is either sand all nocks or try smaller serving I went for a smaller serving.
So what I am getting at is everyone says the paper tuning is a headache, you can learn from what your arrow is doing there is always an answer :D

bfisher
07-12-2014, 12:02 PM
You are correct about nock fit and paper tuning in general. The problem I see with most people is that they rely on paper tuning only and forget that it's just one step to a complete tuning process. There are so many other ways tuning can be done and some can be used to confirm what another step shows. Personally I like to bare shaft tune, starting at about 6' and getting back to 20 yards. Not much use in going farther than that as it might cause a hair pulling contest.

I've never really done the walk-back thing. I guess 40 years of setting bows up and tinkering I have learned to get things pretty close to begin with. Just like my new Nemisis Nitro. I just set it up last week, knew what arrows I've previously shot, and within 6 shots had near perfect bare shaft flight at 15 yards. Looks pretty decent at 20 yards so far, too, after I added 1/2 turn to the limbs. Call me lucky. Of course being the constant tinkerer I'll be trying for 35 yards soon. After that I'll maybe shoot a bullet hole thru paper. I think if it does well at 35 yards it'll look fairly good at 6'.

TEN RING
07-12-2014, 12:10 PM
Barry I understand, my thinking on this is even if a person try another method to tune there bow it is a tool to help a person to see what is going on with there arrow flight.
I have only tried bare shaft tune one time and that was 20 years ago

bfisher
07-12-2014, 02:35 PM
I mostly bare shaft tune because that was the main way to do things back when I started. I learned it well and it was long before some of the other methods used today. I understand what the bare shaft tells me plus there is always this unrelenting quest for perfection in my shot execution. About the only thing I've changed in my thinking over the years is that as I get older I'm losing muscle so bow weight keeps coming down. I left my ego behind a long time ago and just accept this as part of life.

I'd like to learn some new methods, like Nuts&Bolts modified French Tuning and others if for no other reason than to be able to pass it on to others. That's another reason that I enjoy the sport of archery so much. There are so many things a person can learn if willing to tinker with an open mind.

TEN RING
07-12-2014, 03:04 PM
If your not learning something it takes some of the fun out of it, when I started shooting 3d's and field archery I always wanted to shoot with the best shooters, I do know there are a lot of good shooters out there they just need to get there bow to shoot as good as they do.

bfisher
07-12-2014, 08:43 PM
I was much the same back in the 70's when I shot field. Here in Pa. there were no classes for release shooters. When you picked up a release it was "Welcome to the big time". No classes; just Unlimited division. After while I wanted to move up the ladder and the best way to do that was to shoot with the big dogs. That where the mental part of archery really comes into play. Gradually, with perseverance and a good coach (one of my competitors) I became one of the big dogs in my area. I shot with and competed against the likes of Jack Cramer (1978 World Field Champion) and Larry Wise and others. Never quite on their level, though. Who was? They were the best in the world at the time. I was just a mere amateur. The point being, I shot better when I shot with better shooters.

Sonny Thomas
07-13-2014, 09:50 AM
Well, Barry, I have nuts&bolts tuning procedure PDF. Don't go by Alan's diagram, it's wrong. Read on down for correct procedure and even then ill worded, but finally the 3rd page gives more...correctness. Actually, Alan's Modified French tuning is done no different the standard French tuning. Sight in on a string, move back to 10 yards or so. He notes 20 yards a few times (much better). Arrows group right, move arrow rest a bit left and start over with sighting in on the string. I do much the same thing, but use 9 to 10 feet and 30 yards. I don't use a string, but use a leveled vertical line of felt tip width to as much as .500 to .600" wide. Get in the center of the line up close. Line wider than a string it's much easier to see from 30 yards. And I shake a lot ;)

If you get in deep enough into Alan's....collection of things you might pick up on hints Master Lee, Bernie Pellerite and none other than Larry Wise..... I bounce around on the internet and Alan just isn't found much anywhere except for ArcheryTalk. I think Lancaster may have his DVD.

Paper tuning. I use it more to find out what's going wrong if a bow doesn't perform. French tuned, shooting great, I don't care what paper indicates up close. Get back to 15 yards and I don't have a bullet hole, something isn't quite right and it doesn't have to be the bow. Arrows need good spine to give good results.
Worst case I ever had was the Victory X Killers and this fairly fast PSE (hard cam it was). The X Killers porpoised at all distances, accurate, but porpoising. Said was 150 grs points. I called Victory. They didn't have a answer. 150 gr points were too much weight for this log arrow launched so fast (largest diameter allowed in competition, 27/64"). 100 gr points corrected the problem and this was found from those competing with X Killers. Noted today is "light weight" of these X Killers.

CLT Bluesman
07-14-2014, 08:19 AM
I use the modified Mexican dense cellular foam walk back method.

Sonny Thomas
07-14-2014, 09:03 AM
I use the modified Mexican dense cellular foam walk back method.

Yes, this works, but should only used every other Thursday ;)

Tosi
07-14-2014, 09:29 PM
Yes, this works, but should only used every other Thursday ;)

Yes every other Thursday with lime. If you get there early it's usually 2 for one.

elkslayer4x5
07-15-2014, 12:15 PM
I use the modified Mexican dense cellular foam walk back method.

Yeah! What he said! :)

wscywabbit
07-15-2014, 05:55 PM
Ok Bluesman, that's an awesome technique! I'm gonna have have to look into that one more ;)

On a serious note though, I agree that paper tuning can tell you a lot, but I've also seen (and experienced) some anxiety when a bullet hole is being a pain to obtain. I've gotten to the point that I start with a paper tune, mainly to get my rest height/nock height set, and remove any major tail whippage or help check for bad contact. Then I move into a French tune (learned from Nuts & Bolts as well Sonny). I will finish with a walk back out to 40 or sometimes 50 and I usually don't have to move much if any.

There are lots of ways to check and or improve tune and some will give better or different feedback that you can glean information from. Besides if you ain't tinkering you aren't shooting enough LOL.

Sonny Thomas
07-17-2014, 09:08 AM
Yes every other Thursday with lime. If you get there early it's usually 2 for one.

Hic-cup....long as the worm stays in the bottle.

TEN RING
07-24-2014, 10:27 AM
last weekend I cut off the vanes of one of my arrows to try bare shaft tuning with my bow, I shoot an arrow at 15 yards then the arrow I removed the vanes from they where touching each other

elkslayer4x5
07-25-2014, 10:23 AM
Hic-cup....long as the worm stays in the bottle.

Thats supposed to be the good part! :)