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bfisher
01-27-2009, 01:00 PM
OK, an inch of new snow on the ground today so I did some measuring and adjusting.

There was a bit of ideler lean so I twisted up the right yoke to true it up. 12 twists in all. Might sound like a lot, but don't believe these guys that say put a twist or two in. Two twists will show very little improvement. Anyway, now the idler is squared up.

Measured the ATA on both sides of the axles and it's dead even at 32 7/16"
which shows me there is little to no lean in the cam itself. Taking a good look at this there is a reason why. The cam is 5/8" wide and the string connects at the outermost grooves, balancing the tension on the cam. Pretty cool idea, one that should have been thought of a long time ago.

There is a large spacer on the right side of the cam which keeps it to the left. I wonder if possibly moving this to the left side would help even out the load on limb? It would also have the effect of putting the string groove and string closer to the middle of the limb. This is something I might persue later.

The brace height comes in at 7 1/16" with the limbs backed off to 47#. Quite a bit less than the advertised 7 3/8", but not really important to me.

I am a little puzzled about the limb deflection. The tech sheets show 2M limbs for a 50# bow, but mine are 1L although I ordered a 40-55. Bottoming the limbs it does peak at 54# on my scale and I ain't moaning about 1# whatsoever.

The biggest discrepancy I find is the draw length. I put on the number 2 mod, which should be for 27". On my draw board this thing comes up to 26" True Draw and adding 1 3/4" the AMO is 3/4" long. Again, not a big deal for me as I can just put on the #1 mod and be real close to what I shoot. It just might be handy for someone who is right at the 26" AMO length to know this though.

Tiller is dead even at 9 3/4" so the idler matches up to the cam real well. This should make for level nock travel.

Snow or no snow I had to go to the club and shoot this thing---outside. We have no indoor facilities. The long draw didn't make for my best form, but I did my best to get it close. Started at 10 yards and had to move my sight down about 1/2". It didn't draw as butter smooth as I expected, but that might be due to cold temperatures, cold muscles, and very weakened muscles, and an incorrect draw length. Even so, in a matter of 10 minutes I was slapping arrows at 15 yards and with no peep or kisser installed. Just relying on anchor.

Hand shock? What hand shock? There is none.

There is a metallic "thoink" to it when shot. I played with the STS, moving it against the string and this helped, but never got rid of it. Maybe due to my little 267gr arrows and 47#. Maybe a pair of Leeches would work wonders. My guess is that it would.

Didn't get it chrono'd yet. My chrono crapped out on me last year and I am not buying another. From what I observed the speed is pretty respectable compared with so many of my other bows. Hard to tell what it's doing at 15 yards. Arrows get there quick.

So about 15 shots and I couldn't feel my release any more. Satisfied that the sight is close enough for tomorrow night I gave it up. First impression is pretty good, and I'm a hard guy to please. More later as this progresses.

flytier17
01-27-2009, 07:54 PM
Nice review.

One thing that struck me was how you measured the tillers, and the cam appears to be almost the same size as the Idler. You implied that this would provide batter nock travel. However, If I look at the idlers and cams on the high-end mathews target bows that many top shooters tune very well, and have won many tournaments and records, the idler is quite a bit smaller than the cam in almost all instances. I'd think that those bows that have been proven time and again would have the best example of level nock travel.

I find the limb defection issue to be a bit disconcerting. People sign on here and ask wha limb they should be using, and i keep referring to and blindly trusting the website specs page. Maybe I should be more careful about referring those pages without 1sthand experience from now on.

I use a double STS, and a pair of BowJax to silence my string. I also put halved and quartered limbsavers on the sight mount for my Hogg-It, halved limbsavers under the limb pockets, limb pocket silencers, and limbsavers at the base and top of each limb. I also have a pair of split-limbsavers in the limb forks too, for a total of 3 per limb. I shoot a 519gr. arrow, and the bow is set at 65lbs (bottomed, I have 5H limbs for a 50-65lb. range), and draws 30". I also put the cables on the bottom limb tips on the outside of the wide axel knobs, and the top limb tip cables near the limb so the cables don't touch. I picked up speed, and eliminated a lot of "buzzing" noise. The bow shoots a respectable 261 fps, and it is undoubtedly one of the quietest bows I've encountered. I continually get people commenting on the absence of noise in my bow. This is my hunting bow; the Slayer BTW.

Have you decided a nice girly-man string colour yet? I know its too much to hope for that you include orange in your selection, but I hope you don't do the purple pink thing you tell us to do all the time. I would feel physically sick to see such a becoming bow violated by that. I would probably cry to see it. And that is not even my own bow!

I like the idea of moving the cam shim to centralize the load on the lower limb. That has never been an issue for me with my X system I have on all my bows. I wouldn't have thought of this myself. I guess too much work with one cam tends to dull my common sense pertaining to other bows and cams.

I can't wait till you start fooling with cam rotation; if you do, that is. I hate just relying on specs, and like to find the best rotation myself, through many hours of twisting cables and chronographing.

Alec

bengal42
01-30-2009, 02:13 PM
You mentioned in your post that your bow has a metallic "thoink" sound using the Martin STS.I had one on my 08 Bengal and was getting the same sound.I removed the STS and put string leeches on and the sound disappeared.Was wondering if the rubber stopper may be too soft and the string was causing the STS rod to vibrate.My bow is 60#@ 29" draw.I will be interested to see how things turn out for you.

Darrenhood
01-30-2009, 05:58 PM
Hello Barry!!!
Those '09 Martins are looking good!!! I'll have to keep my hands off for a while. My gun collection has been ignored & collecting dust & rust since 1991.
Then I opened the safe about a year ago & realized very few of them were even what I wanted. Been trading them off & standardizing the fleet & appreciating how well they hold & increase their value. Wish bows did that.

Narrowed it down to 2 calibers, 44 mag & 444 Marlin, reload both with the same bullets, all in the same kind of rifle. Got to finish working up the straightest shooting load for the 444, and I'm almost there, then back to flinging arrows.

You know, 44 mag for squirrels, 444 Marlin for jack rabbits, then my high poundage bows for bigger critters.

Very nice of them to stamp out the exact same design since 1894. 100 years worth of spare parts, value keeps going up. Bad for the designers, good for all the rest of us. Wish the auto manufacturers & someone else would follow suit.

Darrenhood
01-30-2009, 06:12 PM
Now I've got to go post photos of my bows on the Marlin Rifle web site just to keep things stirred up.

Darrenhood
01-30-2009, 06:23 PM
Wait, you & a single cam? Where have I been?

flytier17
01-31-2009, 07:35 AM
Yeah, where have you been? I thoight you were gone for good! I needed someone to rib about their pink and white fletches:D

Good to see you back!

bfisher
01-31-2009, 04:38 PM
Somehow I don't get all the talk about guns. I shot the Moab today at Lancaster Archery Supply, and it was a whole lot more quiet. I didn't notice the metallic sound so much. Maybe because I was more intent on getting it sighted in for 20 yards. The 30 and 40 yard pins are set for a previous bow so they should be fairly close. I have a shoot tomorrow---outside. Brrrrr.

I do have to comment on the recoil of the bow and resulting "hand shock". There is none that I can detect or feel. I don't even have a wrist sling on the thing and may not put one on. The bow just doesn't move.

I'm just not sold on the Whisker Bisquit rest though. As with any full capture rest the slightest movement of the bow tends an arrow someplace other where intended.

I wish I could have done more but LAS closes at 4:00 pm on Saturday and I walked in at five of. They let me play for about 20 minutes and I had to go.

More later.

Darrenhood
01-31-2009, 06:28 PM
Yeah, where have you been? I thoight you were gone for good! I needed someone to rib about their pink and white fletches:D

Good to see you back!

Gotta be out in the woods sometime. It's that cabin fever time of year again. Where I hunt, bow season is a month long, either sex, deer & elk, then rifle season is a week & a half long, buck & bull only, followed by a short range weapon season (shotgun, muzzle loader or bow....bow for me). So a guy can have a week & a half rifle season, or 2 months of bow hunting. Makes it hard to put the bow away if a guy wanted to.

Pardon the hi jack. Gotta read your post now Barry, without falling in lust with the new bows.

Darrenhood
01-31-2009, 06:38 PM
Didn't get the gun talk? So far, I've given away old bows but never been able to sell one. Of course I haven't dropped the price on bows I bought for $700 down $50.

How do you do it Barry?

Darrenhood
01-31-2009, 06:44 PM
What few improvements I would like to have seen on last year's Martins are taken care of on this year's fleet.

I noticed on the Warthog, the dampner is wedged in the fork at the end of the riser, under the limb. I wonder if, on say the Moab or Bengal, where the dampner is mounted further into the riser, if a guy could wedge an extra set of dampners out at the end where the warthog has them for extra weight & dampening, or is the shape different on the other risers?

bfisher
01-31-2009, 08:15 PM
What few improvements I would like to have seen on last year's Martins are taken care of on this year's fleet.

I noticed on the Warthog, the dampner is wedged in the fork at the end of the riser, under the limb. I wonder if, on say the Moab or Bengal, where the dampner is mounted further into the riser, if a guy could wedge an extra set of dampners out at the end where the warthog has them for extra weight & dampening, or is the shape different on the other risers?

Good observation Darren. I never noticed the dampeners on the Warthog. I might have to make a phone call to Joel and ask for some. Put them on the Moab and the FireCat. Of course I can always just see my sales rep and get whatever Simm's products I want, too. And while I'm at it may as well order some new Gold Tip Ultralite Pro 600 shafts.

Don't know how long you've been gone, but FYI I had some problems last year. Just to make a long story short I lost about half my muscle mass in the left shoulder/deltoid area. For now I'm just getting back to being able to shoot between 45 and 50#. So if you see me mentioning about being slightly handycapped and shooting light weight this is the reason why.

OK, I'll allow the hijack this time. Just watch yourself, bud.

Catcha later.

Darrenhood
02-01-2009, 10:31 PM
I meant to comment on your health, too. Reading this from the beginning, I got the impression you're in better shape than last time we spoke & I was glad to hear that. If you're shooting 45 & 50 pound bows, you're on your way back up from what you had been shooting & I better watch it.

Seems like you were shooting 30 pounds last time.

bfisher
02-02-2009, 07:52 AM
I meant to comment on your health, too. Reading this from the beginning, I got the impression you're in better shape than last time we spoke & I was glad to hear that. If you're shooting 45 & 50 pound bows, you're on your way back up from what you had been shooting & I better watch it.

Seems like you were shooting 30 pounds last time.

Actually, about 15 months ago I was still stuggling with a 15# Genisis, so yes it is a bit better today. I still can't control the bow as well as before my problem started, but probably if I got my lazy old *** in the gym the process of improving would get quicker.

Thing is I have another hobby that keeps me somewhat busy. Scuba diving and underwater video. I do a scuba trip somehere in the Caribbean for a week, do about 4 hours of video tape, and it takes about 2 months to edit it down to something less than an hour, color correct, add music and titles.

In the middle of this I am active on about 5 archery forums and as many scuba forums so computer time is substantial. Maybe too much so. Some of it would be better spent in the gym.

Barry

Darrenhood
02-04-2009, 07:27 PM
Diving will make you soft, too. Or you sure use different muscles. Everything's buoyant. Not zero gravity, but negative gravity. Things you wouldn't try to move above water move very easy under water.

Hmmmm???? That's it!! Underwater archery therapy!! 50 pound bow will draw like it's not even there, under water. Trust me!!

I've never done real diving like you, no deeper than 15 feet, at the end of my gold dredge's suction hose.

Darrenhood
02-04-2009, 07:30 PM
Ooops. When I want a picture that big, I can't do it. Sorry.

I'd like to see one of your videos sometime.

bfisher
02-04-2009, 08:29 PM
I think I should let you know that gold has topped $900/ troy ounce. How much have you dredged up so far?

You've been 15'? My absolute deepest has been 147' and I used to be well known for wanting to go beyond 100' every tieme I had the chance. Since I started doing underwater photo and video I spend the majority of my time in the 70' and up depths. I can usually do about 1 1/2 hours or more if I stay around 40' or so.

I have a short 10 minute version on Youtube entitled Bonaire Sample Clips. I could email you the link. It's just some samples that I posted to show a couple guys what I get out of my camcorder. They are looking to buy but want something to look at.

It's not much different than archery forums. Everybody looking for someone else's experience before they lay down their hard earned money.

We're supposed to get us some decent weather this weekend so maybe I'll be able to get that Moab through it's paces.

Darrenhood
02-05-2009, 10:21 PM
Dredged up so far? I'd say just under 3 ounces. Whenever I'm in the doghouse with crazy woman, back down to the jeweler to have another nugget or two mounted on posts or a necklace slide. So the count keeps going down.

Used to only go for a week a year in north california & it took 5 hours to get there. My old retired neighbor down there would stay there for 2 months & come home with a pickle jar full every year. Chunky gold down there.
Now I have a place an hour & a half from here. I can run up there easy on weekends & not have to use vacation time. Small sandy stuff, but lots of it. Want to get an earlier start this year & make a few more trips.

Story of my life, small deer, small gold, realy big women.

I want to thank you for joining me in the thread hijacking.

Fuzzy phone pictures.

I'll get on youtube & take a look. Take care of your old self Barry

Darrenhood
02-05-2009, 10:30 PM
Thinking about melting down all the small stuff. It'd make a gold bar the size of a small domino.

Even at $900 an ounce, if I sold what I find on each trip, it wouldn't pay for the groceries we ate on the trip, or the gas to run the machine. Rocks & sand wear the dredge out, by the time I find enough to pay for the dredge, it'll be time for a new dredge. Unless I find that potatoe size nugget.

So far I thought of it as more valuable to keep it for looking at, or making angry women smile. Need some?

I'd like to see it get up around $2,000 an ounce.

SandSquid
02-06-2009, 08:36 AM
So far I thought of it as more valuable to keep it for looking at, or making angry women smile. Need some?


making angry women smile = Priceless!!!!

bfisher
02-06-2009, 09:15 AM
Darren,

Yeah, you hijacked this thread pretty good, but that's OK. I'm helping. I just wanted to say that it is my thread so I can take certain liberties, including allowing you to go on. Sometimes I don't think there is a thing wrong with just plain making new friends from long distance. Things don't always have to be about archery. It's nice to learn what other interests people have. And this helps for us to understand each other's personalities too.

You take care, bud. Hope you hit the mother lode one of these days.

Barry

Darrenhood
02-06-2009, 05:23 PM
And I hope you find that ship wreck overloaded with gold !!

flytier17
02-06-2009, 05:59 PM
Darren:

Couldn't you just pan for the gold? It would save on gas and dredge repairs. Only costs elbow grease. And a pan. Kind of like honouring an old tradition and era as well. I'm no geologist by any means, but would you be able to get the same gold with a pan? Or does the dredge reach deeper into the riverbed.

I know how to make money at what you do. Take up jewel making. Turn that gold into a fine work of art like a complicated neclace design, and sell it for far more than the value of the gold alone.

Better yet, get you wife to become the jeweller.

Don't complain about small deer. At least you have gotton a deer. I've come close so many times it sickens me to recall them, but have yet to take a shot. Wait; i lie. I took a shot once. The buck saw me as I was squezzing the release, and jumped as the bow went off. He didn't even jump the string. He jumped as the bow fired. I had tracked him on foot into some tall grass in the end of december. He doubled back on the tracks I was following. I got off the path, and lay down behind some scrub. He literally walked 6 feet from me. I was watching fro the corner of my eye, and when he was approx. 20yds. away, I drew lying down. I sat up and grunted to turn him so I didn't have to shoot him in the rump (not that i would hae taken that shot; don't mind my terminology). As he turned, I squeezed the trigger. Then he jumped. The arrow went about a foot under his ribcage. After that, I stick to my stand. No more spot-n-stalks for me.

He was a real nice deer too. About 10 points with a drop-tine sticker. I glassed him this year, but thats all I've seen of him since.

So yeah; to get back on topic (or at least my original topic besides the gold thing of course:D) Don't complain about those "small deer". I'd be happy with any one of them.

I also hope your wife doesn't see that "large women" phrase. Not that I mind you mentioning it. Good blackmail material there:D

TTYL,
Alec

flytier17
02-06-2009, 06:03 PM
Does anybody have nything to comment on my observation about idler wheels' dimensions and nock travel, as read in my original post on this thread?

Jus throwin it out there.........

I also began to wonder if it has to do with limb profile? If you look at the parallell mathews, they also have large idlers? I wonder if when the limb has to travel more, a smaller idler-larger cam combination is optimal for nock travel?

Alec

Darrenhood
02-06-2009, 06:08 PM
Only been doing the dredge thing since '96 or '97. Geez, guess that's not yesterday anymore. But a week or two a year, that adds up to less than a year under water, with long breaks in between.

Never took a dive class, just self taught with many comical scenes, hi strung me having to learn to relax trying to breath with my head under water. My first successfull dive began with most of a six pack & deciding I didn't care if I died. Then it went well.

After you get used to it, you can leave the air at the bottom of the hole, dive down to it, slap the regulator in, clear the water out & breath like you were born there, but I'm still green.

If you ever want to make a trip out west, I'll show you how to get your own gold, and you can show me how to dive like a man.

Darrenhood
02-06-2009, 06:20 PM
Flytier,

You can never get rid of the pan. You have to pan thru what the dredge catches. With say, a pickup load of dirt, you could spend weeks panning thru it, or suck it all thru a dredge in an hour or two, then pan thru what the dredge caught in a few panfulls. All the heavier material that is more likely gold gets caught in the sluice box (that aluminum box with water running thru it in the picture) all the lighter material that won't be gold, including realy big rocks that don't weigh much for their size, gets washed out the back.

And, yes, that machine lets you clean down to the bottom where all the heavy stuff will be, better than a shovel will do. Lot easier than shoveling too.

Reading this, it sounds like I know what I'm doing. I'm realy not very good at it. The old farts I learned from should be telling these stories.

Darrenhood
02-06-2009, 06:29 PM
Well, Alec,

Those tournament bows shoot field points & you can get away with a crooked shooting bow with them.

On a single cam, you still have 2 cams, they're just machined on the one cam.
2 identical cam profiles machined with different diameters. The diameter of the idler wheel is used to make up the difference in the cam profile diameters so you get level nock travel.

Least that's my observassumption.

flytier17
02-06-2009, 06:56 PM
I'd personally think the tournament bows have to be tuned the best.

A solocam system is still one cam. Just the shoting string pulls with both ends on one side of the cam, with the cable to counter it.

Just a thought; how about I take a Nitrous cam, and put the shooting string over an idler, and fasten the other end where the cable would go?

bfisher
02-06-2009, 09:47 PM
I'd personally think the tournament bows have to be tuned the best.

A solocam system is still one cam. Just the shoting string pulls with both ends on one side of the cam, with the cable to counter it.

Just a thought; how about I take a Nitrous cam, and put the shooting string over an idler, and fasten the other end where the cable would go?

Nice try Alec, but then where are you going to attach the cable?

flytier17
02-07-2009, 07:18 AM
No cable. The other end of the shooting string acts as the cable. The shooting string will be drawn, and the cam will rotate; wrapping the other end of the same string in the cable groove.

Alec

bfisher
02-07-2009, 05:12 PM
Well, ya know what Alec. I think you ought to rig one of these contraptions up and see how it works. Then let us know. You do know that you'll have to figure out how long to make the string---and then make one, or have it made. A lot of trial and error there lad.

flytier17
02-08-2009, 10:50 AM
Where do I get the Idler?

I know a machinist who might make one for me. He is a Martin ProStaff shooter, so he would know what it has to do.

I'll stick with what I know for now. Probably safer. I don't shoot solos anyways.

I may be getting a recurve soon. Just for fun. if I'm any good at it, I might hunt with it. I like the idea of instinctive shooting; no pins, peeps, tuning, stabilizers, levels etc... Just point and shoot. Kind of appeals to me. We'll see. 3-D and hunting will still be the prioriies for me. I am not going to sacrifice the rest of my shooting bcause I am branching off into to many aspects of shooting. 3-D and hunting, with their respective bow setups will be my focus. The Recurve will just be like spots for me; a fun thing to do.

Darrenhood
02-09-2009, 09:52 AM
Hey, Barry,

Does a guy have to worry about getting the bends, or a mild case of it, being at 5 or 10 feet for 8 or 10 hours?

The longer I'm down for, the dizzier I am when I surface. Float out of my hole, climb up on a rock, get dizzy & fall back in the water.

I'd heard body temp. loss will cause that & since I got my hood, it seems to have helped a little.

Doc says I've got perfect blood pressure. I tend to get a little inverted, upper body down in the hole I'm making, feet floating above me, till I get the hole big enough to lay in.

I even lolly gag around, drop my weight belt, sit on a rock & eat a sandwich, float over & shut off the dredge. When I make my first effort to stand up above water, I fall back in.

Got a bottle of alchohol & vinigar I squirt in my ears when I surface, so it's usualy not swimmer's ear.

Maybe I should enjoy it. Many people spend a lot of money on alchohol to get like that.

bfisher
02-09-2009, 07:40 PM
You can't get the bends from what you are doing. In fact you can stay down indefinitely if you are less than 33' deep. The bends don't make you dizzy. What it actally is is nitrogen bubbles coming out of solution in the blood stream and getting trapped in the joints, typically the elbows and knees, and lower back. Causes excruciating pain and you can't straighten the arms and legs, thus "the bends".

The other biggest danger, even from shallow depths is an embolism. This is wwhere the air sacs in the lungs rupture from surfacing too quickly and they rupture. Normal sign is spitting blood in mild cases to death on the severe end. In either case it can't happen unless you are breathing compressed air from a cylinder and scuba regulator. Breathing surface air creates no such problems.

So you aren't getting the bends. You're probably a bit on the dizzy side anyway, LOL, but more than likely you're just becoming a bit hypothermic and maybe dehydrated, which can lead to a drop in blood pressure. Hard to imagine becoming dehydrated when in the water, but it's true. As for hypothermia, water sucks the heat from the body 20 times faster than air, and even a thick wet suit only slows down the process. That's why so many divers in the northern states, and even California, where water temps are 60 degrees or lower wear dry suits.

It also might be hard to imagine, but almost all my diving is in water temps of about 78* to 87* F and after a couple days of four dives a day (each an hour or more long) my body starts to show signs of hypothermia, although to a lesser degree. What do I do to counter it? You already do it yourself. Put that hood on the head.

bfisher
02-09-2009, 07:47 PM
I forgot something. The alcohol and vinegar is a god solution to keep ear infections away. The alcohol dries the water up and the vinegar kills bacteria. It's what I use when I dive fresh water quarries (once every couple years).

I hardly ever have any problems with salt water diving. In fact, I don't even carry any along when I go on my trips.

I also forgot to add that dehydration can very readily occur even though you are surrounded by water. Dehydration starts within the body iteslf so you need to drink lots of water. And no drinking alcohol--that's a no-no. Onerule I have about scuba diving----My first drink of the day means my diving is over for the rest of that day.

Darrenhood
02-09-2009, 08:57 PM
Thank you, Barry.

All my diving is in creeks & rivers that run on account of snow melting. Even on a 100 degree day, the water is 50 degrees or colder, much colder I'd imagine.
Middle of july & august, I've been wearing just the farmer johns & not the long sleeved upper half of the suit. That's just a dark blue long sleeve tee in the picture. Yep, them are bow shooting muscles, not a wet suit. I'll try wearing the whole suit this year, maybe a second hood.

I'll try keeping drinking water close by too, then. Don't want to get Beaver Fever from drinking the creek water.

I'll need to run a second weight belt too. I've got all the weight I can slide onto the belt I have & it's almost not enough. When I wear both halves of the suit, combined with the current of even an easy running creek, I keep floating away. That's a lot of weight to wrestle around with while getting ready above water. What do the cool guys do?

Any items of interest in the quarries?

Darrenhood
02-09-2009, 08:59 PM
I'm gonna owe consultation fees.

Darrenhood
02-09-2009, 09:03 PM
We might be on to something here, talking about diving, gold & angry women on an archery forum. Bet folks are wondering what the heck is wrong with us.

flytier17
02-09-2009, 09:54 PM
Tshirt and muscles? Naw, can't be. Thats 14mm neoprene and a beer gut:D

bfisher
02-10-2009, 08:57 AM
We might be on to something here, talking about diving, gold & angry women on an archery forum. Bet folks are wondering what the heck is wrong with us.

Nothing wrong with us at all. Just proves we're not one dimensional.

Now to make you a bit jealous, when I dive most places I wear a Henderson Microprene suit, 1.5 mils. That requires me to wear 6# of lead. When I wear my 5 mil I need 12#.

bfisher
02-10-2009, 09:06 AM
Just as an aside, and maybe getting back on track a bit, I chrono'd both the FireCat and Moab yesterday. They still aren't set up the way I'd like so I'm not going to give specific speeds. The reason being that most guys are not going to be shooting these things at 45# and 26" draw.

What I can say is that the Moab shoots 15 fps slower than the FireCat at the same settings so that is right in line with manufacturer stated speeds.

I would also relate that to my old bones there is not as much difference in draw cycle as one would imagine. The Cat cam is a little tougher, but not that much. What is pretty perceptable is the roll-over into the valley---if you want to call a draw stop a valley.

Darrenhood
02-10-2009, 07:14 PM
And what does all this have to do with mining, diving & angry women?

Just kidding, Barry. I appreciate your time & knowledge bumps.