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flytier17
03-05-2009, 06:37 PM
Well, I tried a new fletch cement on my CXL-SS's, and it works. Too well. I'm having a heck of a time stripping the fletches without scraping the carbon.

How badly can the carbon be scraped before it is damaged enough that the spine will be affected? I don't have a spine tester yet; I'm saving up for it though.

How can I strip the vanes so as to ensure minimal damage to carbon.

This is the first time I've stripped a carbon surface. I shoot aluminum X7 Eclipses for spots, and FMJ's for hunting. Never fletched a carbon surface before.

Also, how much prep do I have to do for the arrow wrap to stick? No more than if I were fletching right on the shaft i assume.

Also, can I clean the surface of an arrow wrap with Methyl Hydrate as I do to a shaft before I fletch? Or will it wreck the wrap.

Alec

flytier17
03-10-2009, 12:43 PM
Anybody?????

SandSquid
03-10-2009, 01:14 PM
Well that's a lot of questions....

I have been experimenting with new glue from Victory.. I donít know if it's publicly available yet but it's GREAT stuff.

WRT stripping vanes, I use a roofing hook blade for a utility knife and a light touch.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/graphics/11-961_mid_res.jpg

I find it has less of a tendency to gouge a flat-spot in the shaft.

If the blade "catches" and you cut into the shaft I retire the arrow.

For cleaning, I use a green scotch-brite pan dipped in 91% Isopropyl Alcohol, availible at most druggists, to clean and lightly roughen up the shaft.
Follow this up w/ a lint free towel dipped in the same 91% Isopropyl to get any residual carbon dust off.
Then glue directly to the shaft or apply the wraps.

flytier17
03-10-2009, 01:25 PM
Thanks for the reply.

I think most arrow makers have a buffer zone on top of the carbon fibers. As long as the fibers don't get damages, you are fine. That's what I read at least.

Barry; you have shot about every type of arrow made for the last 30 yeads, or pretty close. Just how deep do I have to cut to damage a CXL?

Alec

bfisher
03-10-2009, 02:45 PM
Alec,

Do you want an honest answer? Over the years I've used a lot of tools on different shafts. Dull knives, sharp knives, scissors, you name it. Whatever I got into my hands at the time. And these to remove feathers, vanes, and several types of glue.

Pretty much what I've settled on is a untility knife with a sharp blade. For vanes I hold the arrow in my left hand with the blade held at about a 10 to 15 degree angle. Holding the knife in the right hand I start the blade under the front of the blade and help push it with the left thumb until I get enough of the vane lose enough to pull it off. If it tears or is stuck then I keep going with the knife. Once the vane is removed I just scrape the blade back and forth at the same angle, but with less pressure till I can feel no more glue gobs or ridges. Pretty simple, really. Nothing magical.

If I've used any super glue then I continue with the scraping. If I use Fletchtite Platinum then I use a cloth and acetone to vigorously rub until the shaft is smooth. Then clean it with 91% alcohol and refletch.

Just lately I tried some 4" wraps to see what all the hoopla is about. They do make the job easier and quicker, but at $1 apiece the jury is still out. That and I have to be careful about the FOC. That's why I'm using 4" wraps and 2" feathers.

27" Gold Tip Ul 500 with 80 grain tip and CB bushing and G nock and the FOC is just shy of 11%. Pretty good really. I have some arrows set up with regular inserts and 65gr Saunders screw-ins that are identical, for all intent and purposes. I have 4" feathers on them and I could probably throw on my 75gr InnerLoc b-heads and hunt with them, but at about 285gr they'd be a little on the light side.

Here I go rambling again.

flytier17
03-10-2009, 03:35 PM
I'm shooting 3-D, and I'll be using Aerovanes probably. They are about 6.5grs. apiece. I also have an arrowskins wrap on it at about 6 grains, making a total weight of about 25.5grs. on the back. I have a CXL-SS Adj. point without a weight of 70grs. on the front. CXL-SS's have an advertised "weight-forward" balance too. Now, I don't have Aerovanes, and I haven't put any wraps on yet, so I can't measure FOC. How do you think it will fare?

Alec

bfisher
03-10-2009, 07:47 PM
I won't even venture a guess. I shoot with people who use CXL's. I don't pull their arrows. I have enough problems with my shoulders.

flytier17
03-10-2009, 08:05 PM
Use scorpion Venom target arrow lube.

I practice 3-D with a ball of Saran Wrap in a socer ball. I kick it out, estimate the range as fast as possible, and shoot a spot on it. It is VERY dense plactic wrap. All I have to do is twist the arrow a little, and it pops out 2 fingers. made the mistake of shooting a nonlubed shaft, and it was welded to the plastic. I had to cut through the ball toget it back. That Scorpion venom is slick as snot!

bfisher
03-10-2009, 08:18 PM
I don't need or use any type of arrow lube. I shoot GT EZ Pull points and 45#. I don't have arrows burn into the targets because they neither get hot or penetrate. I take it a step further. I keep the score cards and let the other guys pull. Besides, they're all younger, too.

flytier17
03-11-2009, 06:59 AM
Hah, thats funny. Besides, it gives you a great opportunity to sabotage their score card too. Not that you would eed too, but still...:p

bfisher
03-11-2009, 10:29 AM
No need to sabotage their scores. We shoot in different classes. They shoot Bowhunter Release and I shoot Senior division. Last week the one guy shot a 218. The other guy shot a 225. I shot kind of lousy, dumping a couple shots really low. 30 targets and I ended up with a 275. Had five 5's, two 8's and 4 X's (11). 5's are a killer, and on close shots, too.

I still can't compete because in our winter league "Senior" means you shoot what you brung. I was shooting the FireCat with basically a hunting setup (no stabilizer)and competing against a lot of guys shooting target gear (scopes, long stabs, etc)

brushrat
03-11-2009, 10:51 AM
iv'e heard a lot of people complaining about the factory made fletching removers out there. I have been using one of the tools from my woodcarving set. They have curved blades and nice feeling wood handles. They work perfect for alum. or carbons. You can buy them at harbor freight for cheap! Give it a try..........:)

bfisher
03-11-2009, 07:28 PM
Might have a look. I have a Harbor Freight 3 miles from my house.

flytier17
03-13-2009, 12:39 PM
No need to sabotage their scores. We shoot in different classes. They shoot Bowhunter Release and I shoot Senior division. Last week the one guy shot a 218. The other guy shot a 225. I shot kind of lousy, dumping a couple shots really low. 30 targets and I ended up with a 275. Had five 5's, two 8's and 4 X's (11). 5's are a killer, and on close shots, too.

I still can't compete because in our winter league "Senior" means you shoot what you brung. I was shooting the FireCat with basically a hunting setup (no stabilizer)and competing against a lot of guys shooting target gear (scopes, long stabs, etc)

Thats me, the guy with the fancy stuff and the low score.

Last year, this was my setup:

Martin Pantera NOS X (you know the stats on this one, no need to list;))
Doinker Carbon Elite 28.5" with 2 8" Vbars
Toxonics Naildriver 5300 with viper 1 5/8" Scope and 2X (.5 diopter for me) magnification and a 0.010" pin
Spot-Hogg Platinum arrow rest with a single arm launcher
Easton Fatboy 400's with a total weight of 338grs.
Carter Ember release

on the local 30target range, I shot 190 average at firs, 210 by the end of last year.

Alec

bfisher
03-13-2009, 07:58 PM
Look at it this way Alec. There's always "UP". I can say I never shot that low of a score, but then I was a pretty accomplished shooter some 15 years before 3D targets hit the scene. Don't fret about it. You'll get better.

This is why I try to stress learning good form and shooting nothing but form. Sure, tune your equipment, but to be able to tune it properly you have to have consistent form. To develop good consistent form the bow must fit you. That means both draw length and draw weight.

Another thing. Don't keep score if you can help it and never ask what your score is. You don't have a score till you're done shooting. You get there by shooting one arrow at a time. Don't worry about the last shot and don't think about the next one. The only one you can do anything about is the one in the bow.

border
03-14-2009, 06:04 PM
I use an old box-cutter w/a dull blade...one quick swipe and the old fletch is gone...then I scrub the arrow with the cutter blade until I'm satisfied I got all the glue then scrub w/emery until it's baby butt smooth.(This has never harmed a camo finish either...no need to get carried away though...you're only cleaning the surface)..Then clean w/acetone (just to make sure I got all the glue), or 99% alcohol to make sure there's no residue and it's clean. I've yet to see a CARBON thread raised on an arrow I've prepped this way...They are tough. Wipe and apply new flethcing. I'm using Fletch-tite and it works fine if I've prepped/cleaned adequately.
As for wraps...I've tried some. Same prep but do the whole wrap area...they stick to anything clean. But I gave up on them in a hurry when I found out that if I have to replace just one fletch I have to strip everything and do it all again. And that is a mess. I will not use wraps anymore...They're pretty but they're also a pita. I don't want a pile of plastic wrapping on the floor just to do one fletch.
Either I don't know how to fletch very well and am not precise enough to do just one fletch on a wrap or it's just that wraps are a pain...I tend to think the latter.
If you want to find out what works best for you simply take a trashed carbon arrow and try differnt approaches to cleaning/prepping for fletching. They're pretty tough on the surface...Just remember you're not trying to carve them into a point like a tent post, you're just trying skim between the fletch and the surface of the arrow...Simple really...Angle is everything...after a couple tries you'll be swiping them off with impunity...And dull is good on a knife/razor, whatever here...I've read a lot of your posts and you should not have a problem w/any of this...And you must by now have at least one carbon arrow you can sacrifice to learning this simple approach eh?

flytier17
03-15-2009, 10:59 AM
The wraps I use are pretty goot to refletch on. I can usually take the vane off without tearing the wrap, and they don't run with Methyl Hydrate to clean them. Also, a 7" wrap is only about 6 grains or something. Pretty light.

Believe it or not, I have no garbage carbons to practice on. I've shot Aluminums and FMJ's for so long, all the carbons I had before have been sold or trashed or lost or given away. All I have are 7 CXL-II's and 6 CXL-SS's, and none of thema re garbage yet.

Alec

flytier17
03-15-2009, 11:09 AM
My yard estimation is pretty good. I don't say this to brag, but this is not my problem. I'm within a yard, sometimes 2 out to twenty, and I'm usually within 3-4yds out to 50. I consider it good compared to some of the peole I shoot with. One guy estimates every footstep all the way out to the target, and usually misses it. Another uses a cheap monocular with a built in rangefinder (etched reticle, not digital), but he invariably shots high by about 6-12" so I don't say anything to him. I'm still shooting better than both these guys.

I think my problem is knowing where to shoot on the animal. For example, When I shoot a deer targer, at first I was tuching my pin 3" in behind the shoulder joint (as depicted), and 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of the ribcage. Just like it was a real deer. I go to fetch my arrows, and find the score zone higher, and farther back. On a real deer, I would almost call it a gutshot. They were goot targets too. Mackenzies for the most part, but the club is switching to Rineharts.

If I used binoculars, could that help me see the scoring zone on a target? How good do they have to be? I can't go drop $1000-$2000 on a pair of Zeiss or Swarovski's.

Alec


Look at it this way Alec. There's always "UP". I can say I never shot that low of a score, but then I was a pretty accomplished shooter some 15 years before 3D targets hit the scene. Don't fret about it. You'll get better.

This is why I try to stress learning good form and shooting nothing but form. Sure, tune your equipment, but to be able to tune it properly you have to have consistent form. To develop good consistent form the bow must fit you. That means both draw length and draw weight.

Another thing. Don't keep score if you can help it and never ask what your score is. You don't have a score till you're done shooting. You get there by shooting one arrow at a time. Don't worry about the last shot and don't think about the next one. The only one you can do anything about is the one in the bow.

bfisher
03-16-2009, 11:10 AM
A good Bino can certainly help, especially if you have targets that are leaning or slightly quartered. Sorry Alec, but I use Swarovski, mainly because I can afford them. Then again, I got a really good deal on them a half dozen years ago. 8x30 for $629.

Before that I was using a Bushnell Trphy 10x42 and they were absolute garbage in shadows or fading light. Maybe you should do a search on AT and see what people are using. I know not everyone can afford the high end stuff.

Then again, you can buy a decent bino for the price of a new bow these days and the bino will stay with you for the rest of your life and even go upin value, whereas we know what happens with bows.

flytier17
03-16-2009, 01:17 PM
Whats the most important feature to look for in Bino's for 3-D? Light transmission and image clarity (lense quality), or magnification to see those subtle indented rings on the target out at 50yds. Or both.

Alec

bfisher
03-16-2009, 03:43 PM
Clarity and light gathering ability for sure. Too much magnification can be detrimental as it magnifies your movement, too, which can make it harder to focus the eyes. Besides, if you are shooting IBO sanctioned shoots then you are limited to 8.5 magnification. I do not know if the ASA has limits. You'd have to check their website.

I think a lot of dedicated 3D shooters are using 8.5x42. I'll tell you this, though. You won't find any of those $19.95 el-cheapo compacts on the IBO or ASA circuit. For compacts the best I've every taken a looky through is Leica, 8x22 I think. They're better than most 8x42 Japanese glass.