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View Full Version : Question about Vapor Trail Limb Driver



wisecane
03-10-2009, 06:48 AM
I have a new Warthog on order and I am thinking seriously about a Vapor Trail Limb Driver rest. Anyone here have experience with them, and if so how do you like it?

flytier17
03-10-2009, 08:38 AM
I've used one, and didn't like it. Heres why

#1 It doesn't flex. An arrof flexes when it is shot. With a welltuned bow and a wellmatched arrow spine, this will be negligible, but it is still there. When the rest can flex, it helps the fletches dampen the osscilation (archers paradox). Look at the prong rests target shooters use. They have adjustable tension that can be tuned for your setup. Even a dropaway should have this.

#2 Too much palstic. Doesn't have the feel or look of a quality piece of equipment that you can rely on no matter how much it is used and abused. I take good care of my stuff, but I still want a quality rest. I didn't have the limb driver long enough for a real test of this, but my first impression was not great.

#3 That long cord worried me. Every time I went to ress the bow with a bowmaster, it was in the way. Just too much to snag. Not a clean look at all.

#4 Noisy. That rest had a buzz I couldn't find or eliminate at all.

#5 With a wax marker, I checked for clearence. It only supports about 70% of the arrow at its best. The more support, the better. Esp. if the bow has uneven nock travel.

#6 I'm not sure if they've changed it since, but the having to cock the rest i had was a pain. I want a rest always in position for use.

flytier17
03-10-2009, 08:45 AM
Here is my solution: A spot-Hogg Whammy. Heres Why:

#1 It Flexes. Not adjustable, like a prong rest, but most arrows between 430grs and 550grs. are supported at the right amount. 475grs. Seems to be ideal, but 513grs. shot pretty well too. My arrows I used had an FOC of about 13%.

#2 Like all Spot-Hogg stuff, it is the best-made rest you can but. Built like a tank, all metal, no play or wiggle, just a supreme example of how a rest should be machined. Spot-Hogg backs their warrenty perfectly. Not POP, nor original owner, no time limit. If it bears the Spot-Hogg name, they will repair or replace it.

#3 Standard cord, about 4-8" depending on individual tuning.

#4 Very quiet click on the breakover point, thats all. No play, no buzz.

#5 Supports the arrow up to 1/2" before the fletches. You can tune it for different fletch lengths.

#6 Always up and ready to shoot.

wisecane
03-10-2009, 05:25 PM
no other input? If you can't tell me about the vapor trail...then suggest something, tell me your ultimate dream rest for hunting (fall away preferred)

flytier17
03-10-2009, 05:47 PM
BTW, the Whammy I use for Hunting. 3-D and Spots I use a Spot-Hogg Platinum.

bfisher
03-10-2009, 08:14 PM
The only drop away I ever liked was the Trapdoor. Now improved and called the Freefall by Montana Black Gold. No cord needed. Just my opinion but I personally think most all these drop aways are $15 prong style rest with the spring reversed and a cord attached with a jacked up price tag.

A couple years ago I had nine of them on my SlayR over a two week period. Hated every one of them. Just couldn't get away from the idea that people are getting raped and loving it. The only one that came close to being anything of quality was the GKF Infinity. GKF isn't around any more, but Spot Hoggs markets them now.

Other than that I still prefer a prong style or blade for 3D. Truthfully, my all time favorite has been the Star Hunter.

flytier17
03-10-2009, 08:16 PM
I also think most rests are not worth the bucks. BUT, have you ever shot the whammy. Just the quality of the construction makes it worth the money IMO.

bfisher
03-10-2009, 08:22 PM
I also think most rests are not worth the bucks. BUT, have you ever shot the whammy. Just the quality of the construction makes it worth the money IMO.

Never shot the Whammy. Probably several I haven't shot. I quit trying to keep up with every "latest and greatest" gadget that hits the market every year when most are just more of the same.

Big Ben 75
03-11-2009, 09:43 AM
ripcord all the way.simple to set up and full contanment when needed or all the time. love mine best rest I ever had:D

bfisher
03-11-2009, 10:23 AM
ripcord all the way.simple to set up and full contanment when needed or all the time. love mine best rest I ever had:D

That's another issue I can't grasp. Full containment. Who needs it. I often hear the remark "I can shoot it standing on my head". Sorry pal, but I have never shot a bow standing on my head or even canted very hard. I have, on occasion, had the wind blow an arrow off a rest, especially when using something like a Star Hunter, but in those cases I probably shouldn't be taking shots at game anyway.

I do know from experience that a lot of people need containment because they pull or torque the arrow off the rest when drawing. This is almost always due to the fact that they are drawing too much weight and can't handle the draw cycle of the bow.

The other thing I don't care for is the long forks on rests like the Rip Cord and QAD. Why so long? It just takes them longer to swing down out of the way, making timing more critical. If they were only 1/4" long that would be plenty. I just might try one of these things someday, but the first thing that's going to happen is that the forks are going to get whacked with a pair of wire cutters and that bar across the top is coming off.

brushrat
03-11-2009, 11:45 AM
I read your previous post and the part about the rest needing a small (controlled) amount of flex, peaked my interest. And you're right, that is why a lot of your non drop-away rests have verticle tension adjustments. It only makes sense ,the same concept should apply for a drop-away. How then did you determine the optimum rest tension for your setup (spine/ draw wt. combination)? I do not have a "Whammy Elite" , but "dremeling" just the right amount from the stainless support arm on my rest could help absorb that deflection. That is of course, if NAP hasn't already calculated that in. I know paradox and nock travel can't be completley eliminated ,but one can always chip away at it.

What you say .....about sharing your calculation method? thanks Del:)

flytier17
03-11-2009, 07:12 PM
With a martin dual cam, the only nock travel is straight forward, unless you don't know how to tune a bow. There is no vertical nock travel o any of My Nitrous systems. And, with my "X" systems, there is no sideways ewither. Unless, my form is crap, then the whole theory goes out the window.

Hers how to get the best support.

Place the bow in a vice, or hold it till the string is vertical, and the arrow horozontal. With the bow at rest (undrawn) The arrow should barely be held up, or close to it. If the rest can bring the arow up within the first inch or 2 of draw, that is still good.

My Slayer with a Whammy and FMJ's at 470grs. will barely hold the arrow up at rest. My Scepter with a Platinum and 2312's will support the arrow after the bow is drawn 2" or so. Ar rest, the arrow is too heavy for the tension in the arm.

The actual launcher blades can flex too, btu you won't get that on a dropaway. Unless you buy the blade and attatch it, but then you might as well just have the target rest to start with.

Barry; I think the ad about full containment is for people who do stalks and move around with a nocked arrow, and don't want the arrow to fall off the rest and tic against the riser. To that end, the Whammy can be rotated sideways 90degrees before the arrow falls off.

I've personally drawn my Slayer on a buck as I was lying flat on my back. I was on a spot-n-stalk, and had to lay down when he doubled back on his tracks. I lay behind a bush, and he walked 4 feet from me. I drew lying down with the bow horozontal, and then sat up and turned. Now that buck jumped the arrow and I didn't get him, but there is no way I could've drawn like that with a support rest.

Alec

bfisher
03-11-2009, 07:27 PM
I understand your situation, but realistically, how many people ever have this happen? Spot and stalk is cool too, but I'd never do it with an arrow nocked, at least not till I were close enough to make a shot. Too many people die doing things like this.

In case you haven't figured it out I like to be arguementative. (spelling)

Now, may I comment on your assessment about the blade rest bending to support the arrow? On this one I agree with you. How does a drop away do this? Maybe I don't understand your post, but most drop aways that I know of are designed to "drop" for fletching clearance. To do this they don't rise up till about the last 1-2" of the draw cycle. Conversely, when shot they only support the arrow for that inch or so of string travel so how does that add stability to the arrow?

brushrat
03-11-2009, 07:42 PM
thanks for breaking it down further for me. Iv'e never paid any attention as to how a whammy rest is designed . So that particular rest has the tension built into it (internally) , it doesn't have a flexible launcher arm. I was going to try to duplicate the tension on mine by making the laucher arm more "springy" (if thats a term), to replicate the same thing. I would have to remove a lot of metal from my arm to make it soft enough to settle slightly with the weight of my arrow. Hmmmmmmmm looks like i need a plan "B".

JUst curious ,maybe you already said.......but do you have a tension adjustment knob on that particular rest? thanks again

Illyan
03-12-2009, 01:14 AM
I have a NAP Quicktune Flipper, now called Freedom...i love it, it's a great release...

no string for fall away, simple set-up, full containment for the arow...

I has been a little creak, but with a good tuning it's disappear.

Try it

wisecane
03-12-2009, 04:36 AM
I posted a VT vs Whammy on thread on archery talk to get more input. There was some concern about the Whammy failing after repeated usage, and then having fletch clearing issues. The Spot-Hogg website has an impressive video that does show the differences in arrow support times on several brands, and yes it does show the Vapor Trail. http://www.realoutdoorstv.com/users/SpotHogg/videos/public

It is the first video listed. If you haven't seen it, please check it out and then tell me what you think. Some of you guys have an incredible amount of technical knowledge, and I would love to see what your take on this is.

flytier17
03-12-2009, 06:56 AM
Barry; Thats why I like the whammy so much. It is always up. It supports the arrow all the way to the fletches. it drops so fast, it can provide maximum support to the shaft till the fletches are almost at it, and then drop. The cord ties into your downward moving cable. The faster the bow fires, the faster the rest drops. You can time it for different bows by having the cord trigger the rest in different points. If the cord is tight, there will be less arrow support for long fletches. For short fletches, you let the whammy trigger ride up a bit till the berger hole shows, and then tie it in.

It is always up, and when the bow fires, it drops down and then flicks up again. Too fast to see.

I've owned 4 whammy's and never had a problem with one. The only fletch clearence problems come when someone doesn;t time the rest properly, and they use a long fletch. Also, some shoot cock fletch down, and use a highprofile fletch. If you shoot cock fletch up, that is never an issue.

The only whammy that broke on me was when my release broke and the head got launched straight into my rest prongs. Spot-Hogg sent me new ones ASAP.

I'll not deny it, the Whammy does require a little fiddling to get it right. A lot of bowhunters who don't know how to do this, or are too lazy can't ge tthe rest to work, and then they say it is a bad rest and has poor fletch clearence. I think that 99% of these people should just learn how to set up a whammy properly, and they would love it.

Alec

flytier17
03-12-2009, 06:59 AM
thanks for breaking it down further for me. Iv'e never paid any attention as to how a whammy rest is designed . So that particular rest has the tension built into it (internally) , it doesn't have a flexible launcher arm. I was going to try to duplicate the tension on mine by making the laucher arm more "springy" (if thats a term), to replicate the same thing. I would have to remove a lot of metal from my arm to make it soft enough to settle slightly with the weight of my arrow. Hmmmmmmmm looks like i need a plan "B".

JUst curious ,maybe you already said.......but do you have a tension adjustment knob on that particular rest? thanks again

No, the whammy spring tension cannot be adjusted. But like I said, for most arrows between 430 and 55o grs., it is the right tension. And even if the arrow is beyond those parameters, it is still much better than a fixed rest. Any flex, even if it is stiff or floppy, is still better.

Alec

bfisher
03-12-2009, 11:01 AM
Whammy might be worth a look, if for nothing else just for me to keep up with the technology. I might have issues with it though because of the arrow weight. Only able to shoot 45# my present 3D arrows weigh in at 270 grains and my new, properly spined ones will be right at 230 grains.

But I do have to listen to what I often tell others. Don't take people's word for things. Go try it and find out for myself. Then I'll know. Still don't like that cord idea though. Call me hard headed

flytier17
03-12-2009, 12:22 PM
Barry, sometimes you can be hardheaded.

Well, you asked for it!

if you order direct from Spot-Hogg, they can adjust the internal spring for you to be a bit weaker. This in not something you can do yourself unless you don't mind voiding the warrenty as it involves taking the casing apart.

Alec

ronnzz
05-30-2009, 10:00 AM
BTW, the Whammy I use for Hunting. 3-D and Spots I use a Spot-Hogg Platinum.



yeah use that before, its amazing i love his features..






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southern outlaw
05-31-2009, 10:15 PM
I've used one, and didn't like it. Heres why

#1 It doesn't flex. An arrof flexes when it is shot. With a welltuned bow and a wellmatched arrow spine, this will be negligible, but it is still there. When the rest can flex, it helps the fletches dampen the osscilation (archers paradox). Look at the prong rests target shooters use. They have adjustable tension that can be tuned for your setup. Even a dropaway should have this.

#2 Too much palstic. Doesn't have the feel or look of a quality piece of equipment that you can rely on no matter how much it is used and abused. I take good care of my stuff, but I still want a quality rest. I didn't have the limb driver long enough for a real test of this, but my first impression was not great.

#3 That long cord worried me. Every time I went to ress the bow with a bowmaster, it was in the way. Just too much to snag. Not a clean look at all.

#4 Noisy. That rest had a buzz I couldn't find or eliminate at all.

#5 With a wax marker, I checked for clearence. It only supports about 70% of the arrow at its best. The more support, the better. Esp. if the bow has uneven nock travel.

#6 I'm not sure if they've changed it since, but the having to cock the rest i had was a pain. I want a rest always in position for use.

You must have the limbdriver mixed up with a different rest. The launcher can flex because it is not pulled up with a cord and held tight like other drop aways. The limb driver raises on it own spring tension when you draw the bow. The cord goes slack when your limb compresses, the launcher raises and since it is held up by its own spring it can flex just like a springy or tm hunter. When you shoot the limb pulls the cord tight and drives the launcher down . It has no choice but to get out of the way.
It works faster than the whammy and is a lot easier to set up, about 5 minutes and your shooting, no bow press needed.
70% support is quite a bit for a drop away.
I have been hunting with one for 4 years now and never had a problem with the cord. I keep a spare piece with me just in case and never have needed it. You could replace it in the field with just a couple allen wrenches and a lighter. How easy is that!
What plastic? Mine has none on it!
You dont cock a limbdriver to shoot it.
Mine is not noisy. A trophy taker makes a whole lot more noise than my limbdriver and that aint much.
It is the best rest out there in my opinion.

Rockyhud
06-25-2009, 09:37 PM
I have a Limb Driver on my 2008 Firecat and it's just like he described. VERY easy to setup, no plastic, long support time during the shot, very quick and positive dropping down, very quiet and no fletching/vane clearance issues. The only thing I've done besides the mount and setup was to put some camo moleskin on the forks. It is totally quiet during the draw and the shot. I shoot CX Maxima 350s with Blazer vanes and there's never been any interference or clearance issue. I've even tried shooting FOBs and again not one problem. I too can't say enough good about it.

southern outlaw
07-03-2009, 08:15 AM
Yes I forgot to mention I put moleskin on my launchers also. It is completely silent on the draw.

flytier17
07-03-2009, 07:10 PM
Maybe I had an older limbdriver? It definetly had a plastic mount, and was a rigid cock and lock design with no flex. It said limbdriver on it, and it still attatched to the limb of the bow, but there was a small elastic section going into the rest about 1" long that stopped the cord from being slack.

What you described is definetly not like the Limbdriver I had. Yours sounds similar to the Whammy in a way. I'll have to check them out again e=when I go to the shop next. I probably had a different version. I apologise for any misleading that may have occurred. I didn't know about the limbdriver as you described it.

Your version sounds better. I still don't like that huge cord, and it being slack sounds like it could drape into your sight window. I also like the arm to be always up.

Alec


You must have the limbdriver mixed up with a different rest. The launcher can flex because it is not pulled up with a cord and held tight like other drop aways. The limb driver raises on it own spring tension when you draw the bow. The cord goes slack when your limb compresses, the launcher raises and since it is held up by its own spring it can flex just like a springy or tm hunter. When you shoot the limb pulls the cord tight and drives the launcher down . It has no choice but to get out of the way.
It works faster than the whammy and is a lot easier to set up, about 5 minutes and your shooting, no bow press needed.
70% support is quite a bit for a drop away.
I have been hunting with one for 4 years now and never had a problem with the cord. I keep a spare piece with me just in case and never have needed it. You could replace it in the field with just a couple allen wrenches and a lighter. How easy is that!
What plastic? Mine has none on it!
You dont cock a limbdriver to shoot it.
Mine is not noisy. A trophy taker makes a whole lot more noise than my limbdriver and that aint much.
It is the best rest out there in my opinion.

Rockyhud
07-06-2009, 02:44 PM
flytier17,

As to your concern about the activation cord falling into the sight area I have never had it do that. The cord clamp on the limb has an offset hole location. I set my clamp so this hole, and the cord, are offset to the outside of the cable guard rod. When the limb drops during full draw the cord goes slack but falls just a little further to the outside of the riser and away from the sight window. Consequently I've never had it interfere with any shots. You can check out the rest at http://www.vaportrailarchery.com/ for more details.

flytier17
07-07-2009, 06:34 PM
I guess you could also twist it so it curled outwards too...

Alec

hunt123
07-07-2009, 07:07 PM
no other input? If you can't tell me about the vapor trail...then suggest something, tell me your ultimate dream rest for hunting (fall away preferred)

Just switched from a Whisker Biscuit on my Bengal to a Vapor Trail Limb Driver. Awesome rest!!! I'm sorry I didn't get it sooner. All metal except for the solid limb button that holds the string. Adjustable spring tension for the blade, arrow capture blade available (on the Vapor Trail website under "new for 2009 - only $6.88), vertical and horizontal adjustments, extremely easy to set up (a youtube setup video is great), totally silent, no clicking like a QAD. The new capture blade looks like plenty of containment unless you frequently stand on your head while hunting. I'm ordering one tomorrow.

AND the Limb Driver reduced the size of my groups AND it gave me enough speed increase that I shot high at 50 and 60 yds with the WB settings and had to adjust those pins. Didn't notice any speed increase at less than 50 yds though.