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jujuscisyn
08-17-2009, 09:03 PM
Not complaining about my limbs, I love em. I would like to know though, on my 08 cheetah could I put 6H limbs on it. I just read a post here that explained the numbers, heck even 5H would be up my alley. I would love to have an 80 pound cheetah. If this is possible where would I get them, how much would they cost and could I trade my 5L in on them. Just curious thanx.

Jake-the-snake
08-18-2009, 08:12 AM
if you got new limbs with a higher poundage you may need new arrows as well, and just curious as why you want more pounds? it sounds like your shooting 71# lol that shouuld be more than enough for almost any animal...:D

jujuscisyn
08-18-2009, 11:25 AM
You would think so, but with the ibo of my bow being misrepresented (yes misrepresented, typo whatever still misrepresentation no apologies or anyone saying that they will make it right), and I purchased my bow based on its specs. All I can muster out of the bow is 255 fps and 54 ft/lbs of energy with a 378 grain arrow. Bout right for whitetail deer. However, I had elk, bear, moose and bigger game in mind and a 310-320 fps ibo bow should be able to handle these and anything that walks. This bow does not and cannot get there with its current configuration. Am I pissed, yes. I spent every dime I had in the budget on this bow believing I was getting a 310 to 320 fps bow. I don't care about speed much but that is how I get my ke along with arrow weight. More speed means I can shoot a heavier arrow. Can I take this bow out west, nope. Can I take it up north, nope. As long as I stay in the cozy midwest and shoot nothing but deer from treestand ranges I'm all good. So that is what I do. I love Martin bows and have been shooting them since I was 8 years old (50# recurve). I'm 36 now. Except for a small indiscretion in the 90's when split limbs hit big, Martins are all I've shot. I can robin hood with this bow on purpose 4 out of 10 times. I love it but I've got to play to its strengths. Speed and power aren't among them. Its accurate and quiet period.
So if I can get more poundage than the maxed out 71# I've got now then I can go to a heavier arrow, get my KE up where I want it and be able to hang on to my beloved Cheetah without having to save my pennies, jump ship and get a bow with accurate specs. Send me an 09 cam and wheel or 80# limbs and I'll be just tickled. I've asked and asked about cam timing, no one can answer. There are holes on the cam but appearantly mean nothing. Everyone uses how much string groove is showing and I've heard everything in between 1/10 of an inch and 7/8 of an inch. I've never heard how to accurately measure the groove either.
Sorry this is so long, I get tired of people telling me that my should be able to handle anything you throw at it. Based on the specs I'd have to agree but according to performance, I know it can't.

Jake-the-snake
08-18-2009, 12:00 PM
so why did you get a cheetah? you should've bought a Firecat or Warthog or even the Firehawk, my specs are 28" draw, 67lbs shooting a CX Maxima arrow at 292... if you wanted speed you should've went with a bit more money and bought a speedier bow lol:D

bfisher
08-18-2009, 01:04 PM
You don't seem to realize that bowhunting is not about knockdown power and tons of kinetic energy. Your Cheetah at it's present specs is capable of taking down anything in north america and most of Africa.

I can assure you that over the last 35 years I have taken many deer sized game with bow/arrow combinations that produced speeds of way less than the bows of today, getting complete pass throughs along the way. The only thing stopping me from going after larger game was my economic conditions and family responsibilities. I'm talking about bows that propelled an arrow in the 200 fps range or less, and those were pretty fast for their time.

The only thing that can stop you from going after larger game is your own confidence. The equipment is capable of the job. All you need to do is choose a properly spined arrow for the poundage/draw length, tune it well, shoot it well, and get to hunting.

I agree that some of the bows with the MPro cam are not the fastest, but that is not supposed to be a fast cam. I understand that you got what you could afford. That is not an issue here. But adding poundage isn't going to add much to the equation either. Nor are you going to find any better bows for the money you spent on the Cheetah.

There are a lot of game the size of elk and moose shot each year with recurves and long bows pulling only 55 pounds and producing about half the kinetic energy that your equipment is doing, and a lot of them with pass throughs.

From a personal standpoint I've shot a lot of setups that produced less than 40 ft/lbs of energy with complete confidence. I have physical limitations and accept that. But I hunt with complete confidence knowing that, for deer sized game anyway, my 47# FireCat with a 306gr arrow can do the job.

Having a 2009 Moab and knowing what speed I get out of that I would agree that the numbers do seem a bit inflated, though. Even so were I to hunt with it I certainly know that it's still more bow than I shot 35 years ago and that kinetic energy has never entered into my mind. I just put them together and go have fun. Try to relax and do the same.

jujuscisyn
08-18-2009, 02:44 PM
Please Please don't get me wrong, I love my Martin and love my Cheetah. I've not held a bow anywhere that can give me (note: me) the level of accuracy I see with this bow. I'd put this bow up against bow's costing twice as much and do often.
My problem is this, I spent what I spent for a bow with an ibo of 310-320, a modest brace height and a very treestand/ground blind manageable ata, and a very sweet draw curve. If I could justify spending 300 dollars more for the firecat for a bow with 20 fps more on the ibo and "none" of the specs that I wanted then I would have bought a firecat. As for the warthog or other, I purchased the bow in 08. Read that again and you'll know why I didn't get the firehawk or the warthog. Also according to my calculations your firecat even at the shortest draw length at 47 pounds bests my Cheetah by about 40 fps.
I guess what I'm saying is I bought a 310-320 ibo bow and it obviously isn't. Martin knows this. Have you seen the ads? New faster M2-Pro cam, ibo 310-320. Hmm same ibo just faster.
Why would I want more KE? I mean really we can just sum it up that way. Who doesn't want more KE. Trust me I've taken many animals with lesser setups. I was hunting standing corn at 13 with a Martin 55# recurve and a 607gr arrow. Killed every year. I can go heavier on the arrow but I'm very near diminishing returns now. Or I can increase my speed and since the only way to do that with these cams is up the poundage. You ask why and I ask why not.
If you read my first post, it is merely out of curiosity that I ask anyway. It isn't imperative. I'm gonna hunt and I'm gonna kill regardless of the answer. And I'm gonna do it with my Martin because I don't feel there is a better bow out there. As far as my Cheetah, yes I'm angered and disappointed that the bow falls short of what it was promised to be capable of. But it is mine and I'll have it for a very long time. My last bow before the cheetah was purchased in 1994(it ibo'd at 292). The 80# limb finally delaminated in 07. I don't go looking for the next best thing, I can't afford to and wouldn't if I could afford to. As a matter of fact if the limbs were available I probably couldn't afford them, so it was really out of curiosity that I asked.
Didn't mean to bend your ears so badly, it was 50% self defense and 50% devils advocate.

Hoosieroutdoorsman
08-18-2009, 05:27 PM
Sounds like you need to do some tweaking and tuning, my 09 cheetah at 30 inch draw and 64 lbs with a 385 grn arrow is hooting 292-294 consistantly.

Jake-the-snake
08-18-2009, 07:58 PM
whats on your string? is your rest timed correctly? what about the draw stop postion, etc. lol

jujuscisyn
08-18-2009, 08:17 PM
yep that'll be that 09 M2-pro cam with the same ibo as my 08 except that its about 20 fps faster. I'm guessing that the 08's ibo about 295 to 305. Not 310-320. I've been trying to tweak and tune and Mark over at BC has tried to help. I think I see you over there as well. He recommends advancing the cam I just don't know where to advance from. Then add some speed nocks. When I try to tweak on here I get resistance. Stuff like why didn't you get a speed bow and why would you want to do that. I get these responses from folks shooting speed bows. And to be honest, at the advertised 310-320 I thought I was getting a speed bow(at least compared to what I was shooting). In 08 there was only one Martin faster and I didn't like the axle to axle or the brace height on the firecat. I'm not sure why I'm getting the resistance. 80lbs is not hard for me to pull, even in subzero temps and this is what I come up with. 305fps ibo, 400 gr arrow, 28" draw with 60 grains on the string and 70# draw=252 f/s and 56.4 ft/lbs. At 80# draw=272 f/s and 65.7 ft/lbs. Maybe its not alot to the speed bow guys but those numbers look alot better to me. Trust me I'd rather had the bow at the advertised ibo and shoot at 70 pounds but that isn't the way it is. How many of those cheetahs would martin have sold with a whopping 295 ibo, with competition legitimately advertising 305+. My Bowtech buddies have 305 ibo's shoot 25 grain heavier arrows and beat me at the chrono shooting 270fps with the same dl. Look, I'm a Martin fan and this isn't lost on me.
The bow is still smooth as hell, quiet as hell, and damned accurate. I can shoot the dots off a dice at 20 and coffee can sized groups at 65.(and I'm not the best shot) The bow is lethal, make no mistake and I love it but in honesty if I'd known that the Ibo would be that far off, my head may have been turned by other manufacturers or another Martin.

RogerSr
08-18-2009, 08:25 PM
I don't think that your bow is to light for anything in north America! I've been bow hunting since 1957, and have killed deer, elk,bear,Moose,and pig,with 60# bows,
in my home state of California I've killed a lot of elk and deer, bear,and pig, and now that I'm getting older I'm using 50# to 53# for my hunting, and still get pass through, on deer, elk, pig, it's all about shot placement

jujuscisyn
08-18-2009, 08:31 PM
Sorry Snake, didn't mean to step on you, we were writing at the same time apparently. I've got to get it chrono'd after the latest changes. No drawstop, put a sts on it so I could get rid of the 30 gr apiece string leeches. That leaves a 5/16 peep and string loop. I'm guessing 12 grain on the string. I've got an alpine mach 5 cable slide. The QAD is troublesome but have it adjusted with no contact. Get a low tear in paper because the nock is about an 1/16 inch too high but that is the only way I could get it to clear. the rest stands up in the last inch or a hair more in the draw and the limbs bottomed out. Can't find out anything about the cam so that is what I've done to try to get it close to ibo. Guys I really didn't mean to rant, I really like the bow just wish I'd gotten the one I thought I was getting.

jujuscisyn
08-18-2009, 08:47 PM
I don't think that your bow is to light for anything in north America! I've been bow hunting since 1957, and have killed deer, elk,bear,Moose,and pig,with 60# bows,
in my home state of California I've killed a lot of elk and deer, bear,and pig, and now that I'm getting older I'm using 50# to 53# for my hunting, and still get pass through, on deer, elk, pig, it's all about shot placement

I agree, like I said I've killed with recurves shooting 607 gr arrow and considering my small stature at the time probably a 25 inch dl, I'd be suprised if the arrow was moving at 150 f/s. This started by asking if I could get 80 lb limbs, because the bow I paid for wasn't the bow I got.
I love the bow and probably wouldn't trade it right now, it's mine. I can probably kill anything walking right now like you said with proper shot placement. But I'd sure feel better throwing a 420 grain arrow at a grizzly streaking in at 280 fps and carrying 83.4 ft/lbs of KE, rather than what I am. Those numbers are well inside the realm of possibility for an ibo of 320. I don't know if I'll ever get to hunt grizzlies or any other bear but I thought I bought the bow to do it, Not a maybe it'll do it but a definate you bet it will, bow

Jake-the-snake
08-18-2009, 09:21 PM
well if i were you personally i would put the draw stop on and take off a little let-off, this will also advance your cam a hair and if you place it right you could gain 5-10 fps...just as an example my dad has a 2007 Martin Bengal with an IBO of 310...It shoots 285 right now, the rest picks up in the last half inch of draw, 3 inches of center serving and he still has the factory strings with leaches... he is drawing 71# like you and has a 29 inch draw, just play with your bow im sure you could get it closer to specs...:)

jujuscisyn
08-18-2009, 09:45 PM
I appreciate it, I'll give it a shot. The closest chrono is at the local bowtech dealer and as one might imagine that isn't an ideal place to get an off brand bow dialed in. Oh they are nice enough, but when I tell them I'm trying to get the bow right, the salesmen come out of the woodwork. After that the closest place is well over 30 miles. But I'll try. As a matter of fact I was trying the drawstop thing when it went flying after about 30 shots and have been unable to locate it. Not sure why or how it came off but it did. I left a message with Martin about 830 their time this morning but haven't heard anything I'll try again tomorrow. Anyone have any insight how long it takes for someone to get back to you?

Montalaar
08-19-2009, 01:12 AM
Thats a good idea. If you are able to handle the lower let-off just use the module for the longest draw but let your draw stop at the current position. This will reduce the letoff and give you a longer peak weight so that more energy is stored and you will get a faster arrow.


In genereal Martin will call you back the same day but try further.

I have replaced the rubber cap around the draw stop by something like duct tape from a mechanic i know. It feels kind of smooth and cannot fly off as it is taped...

jujuscisyn
08-19-2009, 08:27 AM
Thanks all, for your advice. I'll play around with it, for a while at least. But like I said, not a huge deal, I can kill anything in this state. It'll just have to do. I was just curious about the limbs after reading that thread.

otiswinkerbean
09-03-2009, 08:46 PM
Mine is an 07 Cheetah 55-70 with 7L limbs and a maxed out 29" draw module F7 installed. WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU? I am confused by the limb number conversation but like the way she shoots the heavy arrows I have on hand.

Montalaar
09-03-2009, 11:12 PM
THe 07 CHeetah had the older grey MPro-Cam and might have a different angle in the limb pockets so that a higher limb rating might be right there.