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sidnren
08-23-2009, 11:17 AM
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Picture 1- I had to move my whisker bicuit rest all the way left to get it papered correctly.

Picture2- King of Spades is target at 15 yards. My sights are all the way left. No more adjustment.

Martin Rack Master from Dick's.
I noticed the M-pro cam is spaced all the way left and the string on the idler is riding on the left side.

If I move the biscuit right to compensate, I get a vibration and noise and lose accuracy ( paper right)

Is this right?

bfisher
08-23-2009, 11:46 AM
I'd like to see more info on the setup. Draw length of bow and draw weight. Arrow spine and length, tip weight and fletching type.

Most of my Martin bows have the rest set just about 15/16" from the sight window and my arrows are on the stiff side. I don't paper tune, but do bare shaft tune. What I'm hinting at is that your arrows might be stiff and need the rest set to the left to compensate.

One thing you might have happening is idler wheel lean. Have you addressed this yet? Usually with a RH hand bow the limbs are twisted with the top of the idler wheel tilted to the left. If yours is like this then you need to add some twists to the right hand side of the cables yoke where it attaches to the top limb. Holding an arrow along side of the idler and parralel with the string is a good way to check it. How many twists you might need is a matter of trial and error. I've had some bows that require 5 twists and some as many as 16 twists.

This is pretty common to single cam bows so don't think it's a Martin problem. Just one more reason I have gravitated away from single cam bow and back to dual cam systems.

This may not be a problem with your bow, but it is one thing that should be checked and corrected during any initial setup.

sidnren
08-23-2009, 12:18 PM
First, Thanks so much for getting back so quickly.

Martin Rack Master
purchased Oct. 2008
67 lbs draw weight
29" draw length
Beman ICS Hunter 340, 9.3gpi
Arrow length from tip to knock 29"
100 grain points
Tru-Glo extreme front sight
Whisker Biscuit rest
Hind sight rear sight

When i first got the bow it had alot of vibration and I had to take it back 3 days later because the front site just fell apart and broke the pins.
The salesman at dick's said that the sights provided by Martin were junk. I told him it was a set up issue. He told me I was torquing the bow because I has holding it to tight. I now rest the bow with an open hand.

I put on a STS about 2 weeks ago from Martin. I also installed the Hind Sight MX to ensure I wasn't torquing upon release. I still had lots of vibration and noise.

Vertically, The bow has always shot flat, horizontally it is all over the place. Best is 3" @ 30 yards. left or right of center.

I decided to papertune and saw that it was shooting Right tear. Called Dick's and they ensured me I am shooting the right arrow for the poundage. So I moved the rest left as per Martin Instructions. Vibration and noise all but gone. Shoots faster and smoother.

I just cant get any more adjustment.

Again I appreciate any help I can Get.

sidnren
08-23-2009, 12:28 PM
Sorry I forgot. Center of rest to edge of sight window is 1 1/4".

Notice there is no more adjustment left.

bfisher
08-23-2009, 12:46 PM
There is some idler wheel lean so I would address this first and foremost. Right tears are often a symptom of idler lean. Then try again through paper.

It is possible your arrows are too stiff for the bow. A lot depends on your form, but I have a Moab with the same cam system that requires a much softer arrow than my FireCat, even set at the same draw and weight. I haven't worked that much with it, but that's what I've found. Not that Dick's was wrong. The 340's are what most people use, but with harder cammed bows

Couple things you could try after aligning the idler. Try a 125 gr tip or a 400spined arrow if you have one or can borrow one. Also, is it possible to turn the weight up on the bow? A couple pounds or a combination of this stuff might tell you more of what's going on.

Work with the rest a bit, too. You should be able to move it in to about 1" from the window. This should bring the sight over and give a lot of adjustment room.

Let's go from there and see what happens.

By the way, those are some good pictures.

sidnren
08-23-2009, 12:56 PM
Thanks so much for your wisdom. I'll give it a try and let you know how I make out.

Again, Thanks so much.

masterofthese
08-23-2009, 07:29 PM
I have had the same problem before, when it was a year before I picked up my bow. It took me a month to realize I was using my release wrong. Have an archery pro shop watch you at full draw, and make sure you are using proper back tension and not vertically or horizontally torquing your release. Since you are getting groups, the only other thing could be bowstring twist, or idler lean, or possibly cable guards over adjusted, from my experience. Hope this helps....

bfisher
08-23-2009, 08:34 PM
Something else I just thought of that is often overlooked-----nock fit to the center serving. Too tight can cause problems. Nock should snap onto the serving but be just a tad loose when seated.

Nock an arrow and hold the bow horizontally so the arrow is hanging toward the floor. Give a sharp tap on the bow string. The arrow should drop off.

OregonHunter
08-23-2009, 10:17 PM
Sidnren,
You should move your whisker biscuit right, not left. It should be moved to the right if you shoot left, inverse of the sight.

eldermike
08-24-2009, 08:25 AM
Not sure but bfisher should know, should those cables cross above or below the cable guard?

bfisher
08-24-2009, 12:22 PM
I have nothing to compare it to, but my gut says they should cross above the cable slide. My FireCat crosses above but this is a different cam system. My Moab crosses above, but just slightly above as it has the CCS on it. Maybe one of the other guys here with a Bengal or Cheetah can chime in.

eldermike
08-24-2009, 12:56 PM
I have nothing to compare it to, but my gut says they should cross above the cable slide. My FireCat crosses above but this is a different cam system. My Moab crosses above, but just slightly above as it has the CCS on it. Maybe one of the other guys here with a Bengal or Cheetah can chime in.

My Moab and firecat are above. Vibration could be from cables rubbing together.

bfisher
08-24-2009, 12:59 PM
My Moab and firecat are above. Vibration could be from cables rubbing together.

Cables shouldn't be rubbing together. Maybe you need to turn the slide 180degrees.

Jake-the-snake
08-24-2009, 01:53 PM
it doesn't matter where the cables cross as long as there is enough clearance between the two, My old C4 crossed above and that had an m-pro and my dad's bengal cross below, which also has a m-pro, is it just me or does it look like he has two different sized limbs on his bow??

bfisher
08-24-2009, 08:01 PM
it doesn't matter where the cables cross as long as there is enough clearance between the two, My old C4 crossed above and that had an m-pro and my dad's bengal cross below, which also has a m-pro, is it just me or does it look like he has two different sized limbs on his bow??

Me thinks you must have micrometer eyes to be able to tell the difference in the limbs. Besides, if the limb were that much different he'd have more problems getting a decent nocking point, which he isn't encountering.

Gotta give ya credit. You're looking for something.

RogerSr
08-24-2009, 09:07 PM
The cables should cross below,my 08 Cheetah, and my 08 Laopard, cross below.

sidnren
08-25-2009, 05:41 PM
oregon

I agree and have done that to correct the problem of shooting left of target. When I move right I get alot of vibration and increase in noise. I have an appointment tomorrow with a bow shop to help me straighten every
thing out. I'll let you know what I find out.

sidnren
08-25-2009, 05:57 PM
One more thing, maybe it will help, maybe it won't.
I spoke with customer service a couple of weeks ago when I ordered the STS.
I was told that this bow is the same as the Bengal. Of course the specs on bow string length are the same as the MOAB. So, i have some confusion there myself.
I look at the pictures of the Bengal on the web and the cables cross under. The picture of the MOAB has the CCS system installed so that is no help. When I do replace the string, which may be now, I am to going to the CCS. Increasing it now will increase draw weight of the bow or so I was told by CS.

I really do appreciate all of the input, You Guys are great.
I'll keep you advised.

I know one thing for sure, my next bow will be purchased through Martin.

Jake-the-snake
08-28-2009, 09:32 AM
about the CCS, if your bow is an 08 model there is no way to get the CCS for it, as there are no mounts for it in the riser...

sidnren
08-28-2009, 02:43 PM
Took my bow to Cape Fear Archery. I spoke with the pro there. He looked at my bow and said the top limb is twisted at the riser or the riser block is. He told me that he was afraid to twist the cables to correct the left idler wheel lean. It would cause the limb to torgue right even more and possibly break.
I called Martin while at the shop and explained the problem. The Pro wanted to talk with them and explain what he was seeing. Martin told me it wasn't necessary to just send the bow back to them. Gave me an RA # and now it is on it way to Walla Walla. I am happy so far with the customer service.

If you look at the previous photo's you can see it.

Thanks again for all of the great info from ya'll.