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RLW
10-08-2009, 07:47 AM
After many many years shooting fingers.....last 13 years with a still nice '96 Martin Firecat XRG.....I finally got talked into upgrading(?) to a new bow and mechanical release.

My New Bow:
2009 Martin Bengal M2 Pro Cam w/STS and CCS......Lefty
55-70lbs (5H limbs) set at max'd 64lbs (see question below)
28.5" Draw Length (29" F5 Module on Pin 2)
Measured ATA: 32.25"
Measured Brace Height: 7.0"
Shoots 30" Beman ICS Hunter 340 w/125gr pts (465gr) @ 260fps
FYI: Same arrow out of my '96 Firecat XRG, UltraSonic wheels, 29"DL, 69lbs = 245fps

For better fit at my new anchor point, and to compensate for release w/D-loop, shortened DL 1/2" on the M2 Pro cam, by moving cable from Pin 1 to Pin 2.
Recently while lurking on this site, I think I read someplace that doing this reduces max draw weight approx 5lbs?
Assuming my old scale is still correct, prior to change, when cranked down on Pin 1 it showed 69lbs. After moving to Pin 2, it now shows 64lbs, so appears what I read is true.

I actually had planned on shooting a little less weight in the 64-66lb range, but what I don't understand is why the drop in max draw weight??? ......and how would a person get those few lbs back if wanted?

Another thing that surprised me after the change from Pin 1 to Pin 2 for 1/2" less DL, was my arrow speed.
Set at same lbs.....same arrow.....my same chrony.....shot same fps.
Not complaining, just pleasantly surprised after expect +/-5fps drop with shorter draw.

My initial impressions are very good. This is one smooth drawing, sweet shooting bow that is accurate, fairly well balanced, and has good speed (although my guess is, true IBO might be closer to 305-310)
The one thing I'm not overly impressed with after only 300-400 shots so far, is the fast serving wear/spread at STS, nock point and near cam.

Montalaar
10-08-2009, 08:15 AM
By decreasing the length of the string you will always loose weight. If you add some twists in the cables now you will gain some lbs back so you will be good to go with your 70lbs again. If you have no problem with the approx. 66lbs then just keep everything as it is.

The serving wear is somewhat disgusting. I hope it will last for some time until you will have to replace the factory strings with new highend aftermarket strings (which i suppose to do so).

elkslayer4x5
10-08-2009, 09:19 AM
We've seen a lot of people talking about excessive serving wear in the last year, and most of it is caused by the idler wheel being slightly mis-aligned. Is your idler alingned properly? If not, do a search for string/ serving wear, you'll find lots of post on that subject.

RLW
10-08-2009, 12:18 PM
By decreasing the length of the string you will always loose weight. If you add some twists in the cables now you will gain some lbs back so you will be good to go with your 70lbs again. If you have no problem with the approx. 66lbs then just keep everything as it is.

The serving wear is somewhat disgusting. I hope it will last for some time until you will have to replace the factory strings with new highend aftermarket strings (which i suppose to do so).

I guess I didn't see it as a decrease in string length. Actually I'm ok with the 66lbs, and typically prefer to have my bows set near max anyway, so ok for now. I'll keep the cable twist in mind though.

I typically used Martin strings on my old Firecat and had great luck with them, never seperation like these on the Bengal.
For future reference.....Winner's Choice string/cable or ??


We've seen a lot of people talking about excessive serving wear in the last year, and most of it is caused by the idler wheel being slightly mis-aligned. Is your idler aligned properly? If not, do a search for string/ serving wear, you'll find lots of post on that subject.
Nope, idler wheel appears fine. This is just wear, or maybe should say slippage, of apparently loose serving where the string smacks the STS and D-loop digs into the serving.......and has slid down (up?) slightly on the can end.


Thanks for the feedback guys

Montalaar
10-08-2009, 01:30 PM
The difference ist that the Firecat/Firehawk is a PRO-Series bow and the Bengal a GOLD Series bow. The Pro series bows have always been delivered with strings of a better quality.

RLW
10-08-2009, 01:39 PM
The difference ist that the Firecat/Firehawk is a PRO-Series bow and the Bengal a GOLD Series bow. The Pro series bows have always been delivered with strings of a better quality.
New ones yes (except I think the Moab has same strings as Bengal)..........I was referring to my old '96 Firecat w/teardrop Martin strings

Dave308
10-08-2009, 02:16 PM
Yeah the Moab comes with the crappy strings but for about $50 you can get a good set.

Good looking bow RLW

RLW
10-09-2009, 07:51 AM
Thanks (or thank Martin)......I like it.
Actually wasn't sure I wanted a new bow, but seeing the new Firecat had me toying with idea of getting my 3rd Firecat.
Local Martin Pro dealer didn't have a left hand model to try and drawing the right hand one felt way more aggressive than I really wanted, so walked away.

Few days later, was at our Cabela's and noticed a lefty Bengal hanging on the rack and took them up on offer to try it (& release for 1st time). Really liked the smooth draw and the way it shot (release - not so much yet).......was talking about it w/some friends at lunch, which opened the door again for them to give me crap about being old school and push me toward a release.
That night came home to find a Cabela's gift card offer in the mail and a coupon......Fine!......became to good deal to pass up. I went back, bought the dang thing, Trophy Taker drop away rest and Scott release.
(bow then went on sale this week & they credited me back the difference.....guess it was meant to be :) )

I still like my old bow and shooting w/fingers (for sure quicker/easier getting a shot off), but I'm adapting
(here's poor photo of my old Firecat in it's temporary hanging spot in my shed)

RLW
10-15-2009, 06:48 AM
I was thinking again about my change from Pin1 to Pin 2, and now understand how it effectively shortened the string, as well as reduced max draw weight.......BUT, this brings up another question:

In addition to above issues, moving from Pin1 to Pin2, must have also basically under rotated the cam. So I would need to put a couple extra twists in the cable not only to get my max draw weight back, but maybe more importantly, to put M2Pro cam back into it's proper or optimal position.
Is this correct???

Looking at other pics I've found searching the site, it appears the shooting string should be coming straight off the long radius of the cam......maybe about to where the leg of the stamped "M" on M2 is parallel to the string?

Bow shoots fine as is, but figured I should still fine tune it as best I can.
(showing details of proper cam alignment, is area the manual could be improved)

bfisher
10-15-2009, 07:41 AM
I was thinking again about my change from Pin1 to Pin 2, and now understand how it effectively shortened the string, as well as reduced max draw weight.......BUT, this brings up another question:

In addition to above issues, moving from Pin1 to Pin2, must have also basically under rotated the cam. So I would need to put a couple extra twists in the cable not only to get my max draw weight back, but maybe more importantly, to put M2Pro cam back into it's proper or optimal position.
Is this correct???

Looking at other pics I've found searching the site, it appears the shooting string should be coming straight off the long radius of the cam......maybe about to where the leg of the stamped "M" on M2 is parallel to the string?

Bow shoots fine as is, but figured I should still fine tune it as best I can.
(showing details of proper cam alignment, is area the manual could be improved)

You are pretty good with your thinking. Right now the cam is under rotated somewhat. This usually leads to a change in performance. The draw weight range does become less. The draw length is shorter. Normally there is a loss in speed as you are not using "all" the cam, and letoff will decrease somewhat.

However, of greater concern is getting the bow to fit you better and this is what you have done. The fact that you haven't lost any speed is a plus in this case. Between shortening the draw and dropping the weight would normally net you about 10 fps loss. You're lucky.

The problem with twisting the cables, as mentioned, is that this also ressults in an increase in the draw length. How much depends on how long the cable is and how tightly it is already twisted. About all you are accomplishing is rotating the cam back toward it's original position. It doesn't go quite that far because by shortening the string and the cable you are preloading the limbs a bit more.

Frankly, I'd deal with it as is if it fits you and accuracy is our ultimate goal. Fit is what it's all about because this is what helps you with your form and form is everything in archery.

As for the serving issue? Bad serving job. The strings on the Gold series bows are hit or miss, meaning some are decent, some are not. For now I'd take the bow to a shop and have the whole thing reserved and see if it continues. You can then buy yourself some time to check into good strings. No need to rush.

You can choose from a whole bunch of string makers with varying quality and prices. Winner's Choice is good, but overpriced, IMO. You can get strings just as good from makers such as Bucknasty, Vapor Trail, Prostrings, America's Best, and lots of others. Just take into account that the more educated people become about this matter the more these guys are in demand so some are backed up with orders. I'd allow anything from a week to a month to get a good set.

I've personally used WC, Bucknasty, and Prostrings. My personal choice is Bucknasty, but I'm nearly ready to replace the strings on my FireCat and may try H&M. I don't always rely on internet reviews because I never know who has tried what and just how much they know. I'd rather try for myself and see what I get. H&M gets pretty good reviews and the price is decent so I'd like to try them. You can do a search on Archery Talk and find lots of string makers. Pick one and find out for yourself is the best way. Almost any makes strings as good or better than most factory offerings.


Hope some of this helps

RLW
10-15-2009, 08:11 AM
This did help, thank you.
"IF" having cam back in the original position would gain me +/-10fps, I might try to play with this a bit, but I'm getting the impression that having this cam a little under rotated isn't that big of a performance issue.


The fact that you haven't lost any speed is a plus in this case. Between shortening the draw and dropping the weight would normally net you about 10 fps loss......

My draw length was shortened, but draw weight I used when shooting thru chrony was the same.......I didn't have bow cranked down prior to moving from P1 to P2, it just happened that after the change when I did crank it down, max lbs ended up at same draw weight I had been shooting at. (still I did expect +/-5fps drop for shorter draw, but happy I didn't see that)