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View Full Version : Bow Tuning -- Arrows Cocked to the Right



JohnnyThunder
10-14-2009, 06:35 AM
I have my Saber sighted in pretty well now, shooting nice tight little groups, but now I notice that my arrows are consistently cocked to the right when I retrieve them from the target.

What I mean is that if the target was at the top of the page, the arrow sticks into the target like this \ instead of like this |. The arrows are grouping in the right place, but if you saw the arrows in the target, you would think that I had shot them from a position 5-10 yards to my right.

Is this anything to be concerned about, and does it indicate that some type of adjustment is in order ?

bfisher
10-14-2009, 08:36 AM
Could be your arrow spine is off a bit. You can try doing some fine tuning. Don't take too much stock in the groupings and such. A bow can shoot really good groups even if it isn't tuned or even if the arrows aren't spined right. Arrows just might look so good getting to the target, which is hard to see at short ranges.

Try adjusting the poundage up or down to see if they straighten out. You might also try a walk-back tune to check for centershot.

tood s
10-14-2009, 08:37 AM
You need to paper tune your bow. Even though your getting good groups, your losing kinetic energy and speed which in turn increases your arrow trajectory. It could be as simple as moving your arrow rest to the right or left orrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, your arrow spine could be too weak or too stiff and you could change arrows or point weight or just change the poundage your bow is set at. The main thing is to paper tune your bow. Have you also checked your vanes to see if your getting clearance from your cables or your rest?

JohnnyThunder
10-14-2009, 12:33 PM
Could be your arrow spine is off a bit.

Could you please explain what you mean ? I don't understand what that means.

alex
10-14-2009, 01:26 PM
The spine of the arrows responds to the bow poundage. It's a little complicated because the different arrow makers don't mark the same their arrows. For example my Gold Tip Vapor arrows are marked 300, so they are good for bows between 75 and 95# and they are too stiff for my MOAB set at 51-54#, so i must buy 400 or 450 (but can't because they aren't sold here :cool: ) The good news is that the arrow companies usually has charts for their arrows and it's relatively easy to choose the proper arrow spine if you know your bow's DW.

JohnnyThunder
10-14-2009, 02:16 PM
OK then. Well I have two different varieties of arrows that I'm shooting. Carbon Force Radial X-Weave 300 and Red Head Carbon Fury 4560s. When I consult the pounds to spine chart on the arrow boxes, my bow weight is at the upper boundary of the range for each arrow.

I don't suppose this makes a difference or not, but my bow is 60# max draw weight that I had turned down to 50#, and have been gradually turning it up by a half turn on each screw every couple of days since 60# was initially too much for me to pull and I was trying to slowly bulid my way back up to 60#. I think I'm currently near 55-56#.

If the problem is with the arrow spine, if I bought 3-4 arrows stepped up to the next largest number on the chart and gave that a try would that be likely to find the problem ?

And as to the suggestion that I check if the vanes were clearing the cables and rest, I'm fairly confident that the vanes are clearing the rest but I believe that my vanes are often contacting the cable. Unfortunately I see no way to adjust this, so the best I can do at the moment is shoot blazer vanes to minimize the problem. However I have this issue of arrows landing "cocked" to the right no matter if I shoot 4" or 2" blazer vanes.

Other than sticking in the target cocked right, I think the bow is shooting pretty good. I seem to be pretty accurate with it anyway, but since I'm really just more or less an intermediate-beginner level archer I'm eager to learn if this is something that requires fixing or if it should just be ignored.

Thanks for all the replys so far.

tood s
10-14-2009, 03:25 PM
You can turn you arrow nock to achieve the clearance you need for your vanes. I personally would take it to your proshop and ask for help in tuning you now.

brushrat
10-14-2009, 04:25 PM
OK then. Well I have two different varieties of arrows that I'm shooting. Carbon Force Radial X-Weave 300 and Red Head Carbon Fury 4560s. When I consult the pounds to spine chart on the arrow boxes, my bow weight is at the upper boundary of the range for each arrow.

I don't suppose this makes a difference or not, but my bow is 60# max draw weight that I had turned down to 50#, and have been gradually turning it up by a half turn on each screw every couple of days since 60# was initially too much for me to pull and I was trying to slowly bulid my way back up to 60#. I think I'm currently near 55-56#.

If the problem is with the arrow spine, if I bought 3-4 arrows stepped up to the next largest number on the chart and gave that a try would that be likely to find the problem ?

And as to the suggestion that I check if the vanes were clearing the cables and rest, I'm fairly confident that the vanes are clearing the rest but I believe that my vanes are often contacting the cable. Unfortunately I see no way to adjust this, so the best I can do at the moment is shoot blazer vanes to minimize the problem. However I have this issue of arrows landing "cocked" to the right no matter if I shoot 4" or 2" blazer vanes.

Other than sticking in the target cocked right, I think the bow is shooting pretty good. I seem to be pretty accurate with it anyway, but since I'm really just more or less an intermediate-beginner level archer I'm eager to learn if this is something that requires fixing or if it should just be ignored.

Thanks for all the replys so far.

good choice! half of archery is gaining knowledge, then applying it....... when you apply it and actually get the results you were looking for then that can be very gratifying. Even though it appears that you can group arrows in the center of the target, when or if you decide to shoot fixed blade broadheads you will be very dissapointed. Target arrows are self-correcting, broadheads are not. They have to come off the string with no porpoising or fishtailing. Anything less than that will cause you constant frustration.:)

JohnnyThunder
10-14-2009, 05:49 PM
Since you brought up broadheads, that reminds me of another question that I wanted to ask. Nearly every brand of broadhead that you can name uses languge to the effect of "field point accuracy", "flys just like fieldpoints", etc..

Is any of that to be believed ? I sighted my bow in with 100 grain field points, and I intend to shoot 100 grain broad heads when hunting. I've tried 3 different brands of broad heads so far, no mechanicals or expandables just regular broadheads.

It seems to me that while they are as accurate as the field points, they don't really fly like field points -- the arch is much more pronounced requiring me to use a lower pin than I would use with a field point.

Is that a symptom of something that needs to be adjusted as well, or is it just something to be expected from shooting broadheads ?

JohnnyThunder
10-14-2009, 05:51 PM
You can turn you arrow nock to achieve the clearance you need for your vanes. I personally would take it to your proshop and ask for help in tuning you now.

I'm not sure I can do that because I've already got the nock turned so that the colored vane is pointed down so as to go between the prongs on my arrow rest, if I turn it so as not to touch the cable then I'm going to be touching the rest instead.

brushrat
10-14-2009, 06:20 PM
Since you brought up broadheads, that reminds me of another question that I wanted to ask. Nearly every brand of broadhead that you can name uses languge to the effect of "field point accuracy", "flys just like fieldpoints", etc..

Is any of that to be believed ? I sighted my bow in with 100 grain field points, and I intend to shoot 100 grain broad heads when hunting. I've tried 3 different brands of broad heads so far, no mechanicals or expandables just regular broadheads.

It seems to me that while they are as accurate as the field points, they don't really fly like field points -- the arch is much more pronounced requiring me to use a lower pin than I would use with a field point.

Is that a symptom of something that needs to be adjusted as well, or is it just something to be expected from shooting broadheads ?

if your target arrows are hitting the target at weird angles and your broadheads are still hitting right along with your target points except low,then all you should have to do is lower your knocking position on your string or raise your rest up a little at a time till they both hit at the same elevation at 40 yards. You said your right/left is fine so by just raising things up you should be good to go.:)

JohnnyThunder
10-14-2009, 08:10 PM
OK I will try that sometime this weekend. Deer season opens tomorrow morning so I'm just going to have to make do with it as it is for now.

Jake-the-snake
10-14-2009, 08:37 PM
I'm just kinda curious as to what brand of broadheads you are using, not that it matters to me, but I'm just curious

JohnnyThunder
10-14-2009, 09:49 PM
I'm just kinda curious as to what brand of broadheads you are using, not that it matters to me, but I'm just curious

They're the kind you get from Wal-Mart for $7-8. I think they said "Allen" or something like that one the pack. I also have a couple of broadheads that I found on some old arrows from my garage that are real similar to the wal-mart kind. And I have some that said "Razorback" on the package. Three different brands, but they're all pretty much the same only some have 4 blades some have 3.

tood s
10-14-2009, 10:04 PM
your broadhead weight and your fieldpoint wieght should be the same wieght ie: 100gr. and from what your posting about your rest i see your using a TM Hunter style rest.. If I was you i would forget about using Blazer vanes due to the high profile and just use 4" vanes or feathers because if you use feathers and they happen to brush your cables it won't have much effect on arrow flight. Good luck with your broadheads with poor arrow flight, because it could be quite an adventure as to where your arrow is gonna fly.... TRUST ME ON THAT !!!!

JohnnyThunder
10-15-2009, 12:19 PM
My arrows are still landing cocked to the right, but I just noticed something that may be part of the issue.

When I shot at home in my yard, the arrow is only slightly cocked to the right. But when I got to the archery range at the pro-shop there is a screen of burlap with the target painted on it thats stretched in front of some kind of back stop material and there is about 4-5 inches of space in between.

When I shoot at the pro-shop the arrow cocking to the right is much more noticable.

I did as someone suggested and lowered the nocking point just a bit so that the arrows and broadheads were landing at the same place ( not at 40 yards though - but more about that later ) and I thought that I had the landing cocked to the right problem corrected until I went to the proshop and shot indoors on their range again and then the problem with the cocked right arrows reappeared.

I have another question to ask if you don't mind - this may or may not be related, I'm not sure.

When I'm shooting at home and sighting in - using field points, I start out at 10 yards shoot 5-6 arrows and ignore the bad shots and adjust till the group is on target, then go to 20 yards repeat, then 30, then 40. So using the field points I have a nice little golfball sized group at 10 and 20, maybe as big as a baseball at 30, and something like a softball at 40.

Now I would expect to have pretty similar results with the broad heads, but here is what happens.

I turn the target around so that I'm shooting at the broadhead side of the target, and it has 9 little 2" black circles with yellow Xs in the middle like an X-men logo or something. So instead of trying to group all the arrows close together and chopping the vanes up with the sharp broadheads, I just pick a black circle with an X and a different one for each shot.

10 yards, arrow right in the exact center of the X couldn't be more centered if I stuck it in there with my hands. 20 yards, not in the center of the X but still on the black circle. 30 yards within an inch or two of the black circle, but at 40 yards with the broadhead I'm all over the place often missing the target entirely by a foot or more.

Why am I missing so bad at 40 yards with the broadhead, when at 10-30 yards I'm doing in my estimation pretty well, at least as well as I can do with the field point ? With the field points at 40 yards nearly every shot is within a softball sized group, but with the broad heads suddenly they're all over the place when at 30 I can't tell any difference from how my field points shoot ?

Is this an indication of something that needs to be adjusted or tuned ? Or is it just an indication that the person shooting the arrows needs to practice more ?

Thanks again for all the patience with a beginner and the good advice.

brushrat
10-15-2009, 05:40 PM
My arrows are still landing cocked to the right, but I just noticed something that may be part of the issue.

When I shot at home in my yard, the arrow is only slightly cocked to the right. But when I got to the archery range at the pro-shop there is a screen of burlap with the target painted on it thats stretched in front of some kind of back stop material and there is about 4-5 inches of space in between.

When I shoot at the pro-shop the arrow cocking to the right is much more noticable.

I did as someone suggested and lowered the nocking point just a bit so that the arrows and broadheads were landing at the same place ( not at 40 yards though - but more about that later ) and I thought that I had the landing cocked to the right problem corrected until I went to the proshop and shot indoors on their range again and then the problem with the cocked right arrows reappeared.

I have another question to ask if you don't mind - this may or may not be related, I'm not sure.

When I'm shooting at home and sighting in - using field points, I start out at 10 yards shoot 5-6 arrows and ignore the bad shots and adjust till the group is on target, then go to 20 yards repeat, then 30, then 40. So using the field points I have a nice little golfball sized group at 10 and 20, maybe as big as a baseball at 30, and something like a softball at 40.

Now I would expect to have pretty similar results with the broad heads, but here is what happens.

I turn the target around so that I'm shooting at the broadhead side of the target, and it has 9 little 2" black circles with yellow Xs in the middle like an X-men logo or something. So instead of trying to group all the arrows close together and chopping the vanes up with the sharp broadheads, I just pick a black circle with an X and a different one for each shot.

10 yards, arrow right in the exact center of the X couldn't be more centered if I stuck it in there with my hands. 20 yards, not in the center of the X but still on the black circle. 30 yards within an inch or two of the black circle, but at 40 yards with the broadhead I'm all over the place often missing the target entirely by a foot or more.

Why am I missing so bad at 40 yards with the broadhead, when at 10-30 yards I'm doing in my estimation pretty well, at least as well as I can do with the field point ? With the field points at 40 yards nearly every shot is within a softball sized group, but with the broad heads suddenly they're all over the place when at 30 I can't tell any difference from how my field points shoot ?

Is this an indication of something that needs to be adjusted or tuned ? Or is it just an indication that the person shooting the arrows needs to practice more ?

Thanks again for all the patience with a beginner and the good advice.

if you can consistantly shoot that good with your broadheads at 30 yds. then it may be just the fear factor. Try again on a day when your confidence level is high and your not tired. After a few bad misses it plays with your head. I would also upgrade from the Allen broadheads ......years ago i bought a pack of the blue 3- blade ones and they were very unpredictable.

JohnnyThunder
10-15-2009, 06:47 PM
if you can consistantly shoot that good with your broadheads at 30 yds. then it may be just the fear factor. Try again on a day when your confidence level is high and your not tired. After a few bad misses it plays with your head. I would also upgrade from the Allen broadheads ......years ago i bought a pack of the blue 3- blade ones and they were very unpredictable.

yeah I bought a pack of The X-System broadheads today, I think I'm going to use them for hunting

also, I managed to get the arrow cocked to the right thing corrected today as well -- someone showed me how to paper-tune and once I got the rest adjusted it straightened right up

I think maybe I know why I can't seem to shoot accurately past 30 yards though. While I was paper tuning I shot my bow through a speed measuring machine at the range today -- its only going 215 fps, not nearly as fast as I thought. When I go back I want to measure it again and see if I picked up any speed once I got the bow paper-tuned.

Anyway, I'm not going to worry about 40 yards. I've got 4 pins on my sight, my top pin is now centered at 20 yards and anything closer than that I can still use the top pin. I figure the second pin at 25, third pin at 30, fourth pin at 35 -- that will be good enough. Any deer I see thats farther than that can just walk, honestly 90% of the deer that I've taken in the last 30 years with a rifle have been 30 yards or less anyway.

Maybe by the end of the season when I've got used to shooting the bow regularly and have worked my way back up to the whole 60#s, then I will worry about shooting 40 yards or more.

I think what I've got is good enough for now, its probably tuned well beyond my ability to shoot it good anyway.

Unfortunately I have to go out of town and won't get a chance to hunt till Sunday morning.