PDA

View Full Version : M-56 Scepter



bowfishn
10-16-2009, 01:14 PM
Question, did the limb pocket angle change from the M-56 to the M-57? it seems to be differant. When using the charts for the M-57 the M-56 has about 10 lbs. less peak pull with the same limb #
:confused:

Montalaar
10-17-2009, 04:50 AM
Acutally this is possible as there have been changes due to new designs and so on. I am not sure if there was a chenge in the limb pocket but scepterman will know.

bowfishn
10-17-2009, 09:18 AM
Yeah, I figured he might know. Thanks

scepterman30x
10-19-2009, 05:59 AM
Where are you getting specs for an "M-56" Scepter and what year are you talking about the M-56 being made?

bowfishn
10-19-2009, 08:30 AM
I have been using the spec charts for the M-57 for cable and string length, the M-56 was manufactured somewhere between 1995 and 1998 it was replaced by the M-57, they added steel inserts in the riser for the limb bolts, did away with the integrated overdraw and rest system. The M-56 riser had a lot of machining and was expensive to manufacture, I believe the Scepter II (M-57) was supposed to be more affordable. Even though both risers seem to be the same length and the brace height and ATA for an M-56 XRG Z-Cam(found in an old Cataloge) and an M-57 Elite Limb Nitrous Cam seem to be the same, when I lay an M-57 on top of an M-56 the limb pockets on the M-57 seem to lean forward a bit maybe 3/16" , that is the only thing I can see that is accounting for the 66 lb max weight on the M-56 riser with the 10M elite limbs and Nitrous B Cams(59 lbs with 9L's).
I am thinking I need to get Elite Limbs in the 12 range to get to 70-75 lbs max weight.

scepterman30x
10-19-2009, 09:05 AM
That is what I figured. I have limited experience with the Scepter risers prior to the S2 with the barrel nut. I do know the spec can be used for any Scepter but the lbs. may differ if the limb pockets angle differ slightly.

bowfishn
10-19-2009, 10:03 AM
Thanks for getting back to me, the M-56 is being set up for hunting and 3-D, I also have a Red Marbled Color ScepterII I am setting up for spot shooting, that is the M-57 so I have all the correct specs for that one.
Shane
By the way anyone here have some 12 elite limbs they could part with?

scepterman30x
10-19-2009, 10:31 AM
I was thinking...I dont think you need the limbs you think you do. All you should have to do is to deflect the limbs the same as what is on the M-57 or vise versa to achieve the same poundage. Cam and limb being = the poundage should be close to the same as long as the limb pocket angle is close and the limb are deflected the same. I know that at one time you had three different A/A lengths for the same bow but a different year. I know you had 42 7/8", 43" and 43 3/8" for the Scepters. So what I am basicly saying is one has a different limb pocket angle so one may then need a little different A/A to achieve the same limb deflection.

bowfishn
10-19-2009, 07:05 PM
Yes, I could increase limb deflection that way to achive more peak weight, but I beleive the trade off would be greater Brace Height and though that would be more forgiving to shoot it would also decrease the stored energy at full draw and being I am using the bow for Hunting and 3D shoots I would rather not increase the brace height more than the 8.5" it is at now.

I found the link to the 1997 Martin catalog that has the XRG M-56 listed

http://www.martinarchery.com/bows1997/scepterx.html

bowfishn
10-21-2009, 08:27 PM
I switched the parts from the M-56 to the Scepter II and it only gave a peak of 72# , which is within what I was looking for 70-75#. I removed the limb pockets from one of my Scepter II's and installed them on the M-56 Scepter that also gave a Max weight of 72#, of coarse that still is no where close to the chart for the M-57 with Nitrous B Cams and 10M Elite limbs.

Again the X-Cables are 44.75" twisted enough to bring ATA to 43.5"
The Shoot String is 58.5" with enough twist to bring the draw length to 32" in the M4 setting on the HL-X Cams.

The ATA is 43.5" with a brace height of 8.5" this is very close to the Specs for the Scepter III Elite with Nitrous Cams listed in the 2004 Catalog ATA 3.375" Brace 8.375"(this spec was probably with the A cam)

I have put together over 20 bows in the past using the specs from Martin, most of these bows being Cougar Speed Flite, M-44 Firecats, Onza with Flite-Wheels, Sonic Wheels and Scepter Z-cams with the old tear drop system and have never had a bow that did not come out the way it was listed in the Specs.

Martin has not answered my email so I will have to call them to get to the bottom of what is the change.

:eek: Its just that it will drive me crazy not knowing. :confused:

scepterman30x
10-22-2009, 07:09 AM
I switched the parts from the M-56 to the Scepter II and it only gave a peak of 72# , which is within what I was looking for 70-75#. I removed the limb pockets from one of my Scepter II's and installed them on the M-56 Scepter that also gave a Max weight of 72#, of coarse that still is no where close to the chart for the M-57 with Nitrous B Cams and 10M Elite limbs.

Again the X-Cables are 44.75" twisted enough to bring ATA to 43.5"
The Shoot String is 58.5" with enough twist to bring the draw length to 32" in the M4 setting on the HL-X Cams.

The ATA is 43.5" with a brace height of 8.5" this is very close to the Specs for the Scepter III Elite with Nitrous Cams listed in the 2004 Catalog ATA 3.375" Brace 8.375"(this spec was probably with the A cam)

I have put together over 20 bows in the past using the specs from Martin, most of these bows being Cougar Speed Flite, M-44 Firecats, Onza with Flite-Wheels, Sonic Wheels and Scepter Z-cams with the old tear drop system and have never had a bow that did not come out the way it was listed in the Specs.

Martin has not answered my email so I will have to call them to get to the bottom of what is the change.
:eek: Its just that it will drive me crazy not knowing. :confused:

What do you mean by this comment?:confused:

bowfishn
10-22-2009, 01:25 PM
What I meant by that comment was, if there is a difference in the limb pocket angle from the M-56 Scepter and the M-57 Scepter II and the Scepter II limb pockets will fit both risers, is there also a difference in the angle on the Scepter III that is listed in the specs for the cable and string length as well as limb numbers? If there is a difference and this is where the increase in poundage comes from for the same Cams, will the Scepter III limb pockets work with the previous model Scepters? If so that gives more choices for setting up the M-56 Scepter and the Scepter II with Nitrous Cams or other Cams, with a greater range of Limb numbers. Example
M-56 Scepter Nitrous B cams, Elite 10M limbs 66#
M-57 Scepter II Nitrous B cams, Elite 10M limbs 72#
According to Chart:
M-57 Scepter III Nitrous B cams, Elite 10H limbs 80# (10M should be at least 78#)
If this is true and parts are all interchangeable, limb pockets are cheaper than new limbs and there is a 12# change with the same limb. (with the 10M any ways) :cool:

bowfishn
10-22-2009, 02:49 PM
:confused:
Now I am really confused, I talked with Martin, was told there should not be any difference in the limb pocket angle except maybe cosmetic.

scepterman30x
10-23-2009, 05:41 AM
I was going to tell you that but I wanted you to get it strait from the horses mouth...I don't call myself Scepterman for nothing.:D
But there could be very small differences between the bows during manufacturing that could cause some small changes.
For instance I used to order my bows to max out at an exact poundage...lets say 60 lbs., but when I got it it would only go to 57 lbs. Draw length, cam orientation, A/A length, etc. were perfect so I didn't want to change anything so I put a brass washer (about the same thickness of the plastic washer that is between the limb and the mushroom pivot), so not much but it put the poundage at 60 or 61 lbs; which was right where I wanted it. So what I am saying is small (unnoticable to the eye changes in riser length, limb deflection, etc. can cause thing to not be precise from one riser to the next.) However they should be pretty close.
My $ .02