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reeladdiction
11-17-2009, 08:34 PM
ok shot my firecat today through a chrno lil disapointed it shot 217 ibo shooting at 60lbs 27 draw 400 carbon arrows 100 feild tip ....

JohnnyThunder
11-17-2009, 09:27 PM
You might try tuning the bow up a bit. Its amazing the difference that can make.

I was disappointed with numbers similar to yours a few weeks ago, but I'm shooting close to 260fps ( Saber @~55#/30" ) now.

Also, a few things struck me as odd about your post. First of all IBO means 70#/30" with 350gr arrow. If you're shooting 60#/27", well thats not IBO by definition. On a related note a 400 arrow probably refers to the spline/stiffness not the weight, so I think maybe you might be expecting something unreasonable about your arrow weight and its speed. But if not, well a 400gr arrow with 100gr head - well thats quite a bit heavier than 350gr IBO so if those numbers are to be believed it might not be surprising if you are shooting slower than you expect.

Read somemore of the post and topics on this forum and I'm sure you'll have it figured out it no time, its not really hard - I just started a couple of months ago myself.

reeladdiction
11-17-2009, 09:41 PM
sorry i am a newbie well im shooting an o9 firecat at 27 draw set at 60lbs im shooting a 100 gr feild point and a beeman carbon arrow 400 bow is being used for hunting its brand new and all just tuned up

ezbite
11-17-2009, 10:16 PM
i think your arrow is closer to 390 grain, slower it will be. im at 65#'s with my 2010 firecat. next trip to the shop and im chrono myself

Hoosieroutdoorsman
11-18-2009, 12:52 AM
If you want to get a IBO type speed you need to shoot 5 grains of arrow weight per each pound of draw weight, so with yours set at 60 lbs you can shoot a 300 grain arrow total weight including tip. With your draw length at 27 you have lost 30 fps right off the bat.

RLW
11-18-2009, 06:35 AM
I agree that the Beman 400 is probably about +/-380-390gr (length??), but so called "heavy" arrow or not, 217fps seems awfully slow for what a Firecat should do............could you have been a typo meaning 271 and not 217?

reeladdiction
11-18-2009, 09:56 AM
i wish shot 12 arrows through all came up 217 216 seems real slow to me

wisecane
11-18-2009, 11:35 AM
chrono must be a doozy

alex
11-18-2009, 11:59 AM
217 is a little slow but with such DL and with a heavy arrow that's not so surprising. The bow must be tuned good and the arrows too.

Spiker
11-18-2009, 12:00 PM
chrono must be a doozy

Yeah - either the crono is way off or ...
If it is that slow there should be something wrong that is way obvious.

Jake-the-snake
11-18-2009, 12:01 PM
im shooting an '08 firecat and a 386gr. arrow with a 28.5" draw length, and im getting 299-300 consistantly...are you sure its a firecat?

reeladdiction
11-18-2009, 02:29 PM
positive its a firecat pro x with the 70lb limbs just bought it this week,,,

Spiker
11-18-2009, 02:32 PM
im shooting an '08 firecat and a 386gr. arrow with a 28.5" draw length, and im getting 299-300 consistantly...are you sure its a firecat?

Yeah - mines an '09 and I'm right there with ya...

reeladdiction
11-18-2009, 02:38 PM
ur alot faster what u pulling 70lbs

bfisher
11-18-2009, 04:15 PM
That's really slow, IMO. Maybe it's the light the chrono isn't getting. My 2008 FireCat, at 45#, 26.5" and shooting a 306 gr arrow chrono's at 255 so something is definitely wrong with your readings.

How much garbage you have on the string? These things matter. Something else you might want to do for accuracy sake is physically measure the bow's draw length.

Such things as nock fit can make a difference, too. Cam orientation. Little things that people don't think about.

But something else that would help is telling us the actual arrow you are shooting. Beman 400 doesn't mean anything. There are several Beman arrows with a 400 spine, each with different mass weight. We're just guessing on the arrow weight.

reeladdiction
11-18-2009, 04:34 PM
beman camo hunter ics just under 28 inches 400 i have a peep and 2 knocks i attach the release right to string no loop scissor rest and apex sight and 6 inch stab 27 draw length 60lbs pull

bfisher
11-18-2009, 04:54 PM
I'll answer in stages. Two brass nocksets rob the bow of 5-8 fps. I have chrono'd this myself as I used to shoot brass nocks. Now I use serving material and tie mine on----one above the nock.

What type of peep? If it's got a rubber tube that's another 5-8 fps loss vs a tubeless peep. I'd recommend Fletcher True Peep or G5. One is as good as the other and Fletcher is a lot cheaper.

I did some math and came up with 388 grains for the arrow---plus fletching. If you have Blazer vanes add another 15 grains. If 4" vanes add another 30 (round numbers). So your arrow weighs about 400 to 415 grains. Heavy, but that's OK for hunting, just not speed. Roughly speaking that's an extra 60 grains which slows things down another 20 fps.

SO,, draw length loss--35 fps, Arrow---20 fps, string stuff---15 fps. You should still be in the 265 fps range by my estimations, unless I'm missing something.

JohnnyThunder
11-18-2009, 07:49 PM
Yeah - either the crono is way off or ...
If it is that slow there should be something wrong that is way obvious.

its not way obvious when you're just begining though

when you figure it out and make the adjustment and your speed goes up drastically, its actually pretty surprising

reeladdiction
11-18-2009, 08:08 PM
you guys are great just came back from the bow shop well nothing is physically wrong with my bow everything i stated is correct but i was wrong on my draw weight im only pulling 56 pounds dont know if this all will slow me down to 217 which i still think is super slow for whats suppose tp be one of the fastest bows on the hunting market at 345 ibo..at 70 lbs and 30 draw yes i have 4 inch vanes and a tubed peep

timtim146
11-18-2009, 08:53 PM
you guys are great just came back from the bow shop well nothing is physically wrong with my bow everything i stated is correct but i was wrong on my draw weight im only pulling 56 pounds dont know if this all will slow me down to 217 which i still think is super slow for whats suppose tp be one of the fastest bows on the hunting market at 345 ibo..at 70 lbs and 30 draw yes i have 4 inch vanes and a tubed peep

I would say your chrono is definitely off then. My 09 cheetah at 60# and 29in draw is shooting way faster than that. I am looking at getting an 08 firecat though. Does anyone know what an 08 firecat at 60#, 29in draw, 350 grain arrow w/blazers, g5 peep, vapor trail strings/cables, and a vapor trail limb driver might shoot speed wise? lol im just a little curious because i think its an amazing feeling bow and i want one :D

Jake-the-snake
11-18-2009, 09:13 PM
It would feel as smooth as gravy, and my firecat which is an 08 sits dead in my hands after the shot...I would say you should be shooting in the upper 270's with that stuff you mentioned...I shoot 67lbs.and I'm hitting 300 now with 386 gr. arrows, but this bow has been supertuned;)

timtim146
11-18-2009, 10:03 PM
lol alright thanks thats good to know :] I might put it to about 65 but im just curious what it would do at 60. Hmm so this crackerizer guy hes supposed to be the best? Does he put more stress on the limbs and stuff or what? Idk what you'd do to get so much more performance out of your bow haha

ezbite
11-19-2009, 12:02 AM
I'll answer in stages. Two brass nocksets rob the bow of 5-8 fps. I have chrono'd this myself as I used to shoot brass nocks. Now I use serving material and tie mine on----one above the nock.


please explain this again. my bow has 5 nocks on the string 2 by each cam and one for the arrow. came like this from factory(except for the arrow nock). ive been told these are speed nocks and add 4-6 fps. shoud i leave them on? i dont understand what your saying about "tie mine on----one above the nock". this id like you to please explain. thanks

timtim146
11-19-2009, 06:46 AM
i can understand you having one speed nock in the arrow position but 2 at each cam?? ive never heard of that before. And what they were saying to tie on is a D-loop. Instead of attaching your release directly to your string you would have a d-loop there instead.

RLW
11-19-2009, 06:48 AM
........You should still be in the 265 fps range by my estimations, unless I'm missing something.

With last listed spec info, I would agree with that number.......at least 265 is right in there with what I would expect it to be shooting.
(FYI: My 29" Beman ICSCH400 w/(3) 4" AAE Vanes & 100gr points, avg 400gr)

reeladdiction
11-19-2009, 07:04 AM
hmm so confused i was thinking upwards of 270ish also do you think id benefit in haveing a brand new bow supertuned if so what would they do and at what cost restringing a new bow seems silly but what do i know and are there any supertuners on the easy coast that i can goto direct im on long island in ny ...

RLW
11-19-2009, 07:05 AM
i can understand you having one speed nock in the arrow position but 2 at each cam?? ive never heard of that before. And what they were saying to tie on is a D-loop. Instead of attaching your release directly to your string you would have a d-loop there instead.

On my old finger shot '96 Firecat I use 2 brass nocks at arrow just for comfort factor against nock/serving slippage............"D" loop on my Bengal for release.

I know some serious shooters that do or have ended up w/up to 2 nocks near the cams for a slight speed gain, but they were extremely picky on bow tune and did many tests with 1 & 2 nocks in different positions on the string for best results.......and that varied on each bow/set-up.

Went thru all that on my own bows tried nock(s), Martin Speed Demons, etc........now I just tie on a set of cat whiskers couple inches from cam and call it good. The minor gain (& sometime loss) wasn't worth the tune time for me

bfisher
11-19-2009, 09:12 AM
please explain this again. my bow has 5 nocks on the string 2 by each cam and one for the arrow. came like this from factory(except for the arrow nock). ive been told these are speed nocks and add 4-6 fps. shoud i leave them on? i dont understand what your saying about "tie mine on----one above the nock". this id like you to please explain. thanks

Now you're saying something different. Sorry I misunderstood you. These brass nocksets put on at the factory are used to increase speed. Apparentl;y the company has done some tweaking with that particular bow and found a sweet spot as to where to mount them. You can do this yourself with any bow, but you have to have a chronograph to do so.

So now the only one you have that will reduce speed is the one on the center serving. To explain my "tied on" nockset further I have to ask. Is yours set so that the arrow nocks under it and the release against the underside of the nock? If so then where your nockset is located is where I tie mine on.

A tied-on nock is relatively simple. First use the brass nock to determine the proper height of the nock by tuning the bow. Using some kind of serving material all you do is replace the brass one with the serving material. Wrap it around once and tie a granny knot. Wrap half way around and tie another knot 180 degrees from the first. Back and forth till you have about 6 wraps. The last knot is a square knot and then melt the ends. Walla!!!!!!!

If you tie it right you should be able to, with some effort, screw it up or down the center serving just like a nut on a bolt. But---it won't move on it's own.

This kind of nock has several advantages. One, it's a tad lighter. The biggest advantages are it's adjustability and a whole lot less wear on nocks over time. Oh, and FYI I've never worn one out.

reeladdiction
11-19-2009, 10:31 AM
Does it pay to supertune my brand new firecat what will I gain and about what will it cost is there any super tuners near the ny long island area

bcriner
11-19-2009, 01:38 PM
Absolutely it is worth it. Get on ArcheryTalk and send a PM to Crackers. He is the bow tuning god of AT. He is in Missouri. He is also a Martin dealer. Just let him know what you are experiencing and he will handle it. He will build and install his strings and cables (definitely some if not the best on the market) and super tune it to find that sweet spot where it will perform the best. It works best to send it to him along with one of your arrows.

rjd
11-22-2009, 07:24 PM
Just had mine through the shop. Ron at Extrme Bowstrings . We shot through the chrono . At 70# 28" draw lenght, with my "heavy " gold tips pro hunters 27.5" rough weight of 386 total . Average of 296 fps and that is without any tuning work. Going to what till after new strings are done to make that step.