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TXN
01-03-2010, 09:20 AM
I am brand new to this forum and Martin bows, but have had experience with bowhunting for about 30 years now. However, my equipment is 30 years old and I'm finally ready to upgrade....that's why I'm here. I live in a pretty remote area and there are no archery shops nearby, so I'm counting on forum members to answer my questions before I order a bow.

I have been leaning toward purchasing a Martin bow and have narrowed my choices down to the Warthog, Firecat, or Firehawk. I want to use the bow for deer hunting, both mule deer and whitetail.

Although I have been shooting a bow and killing deer with it for 30 years and have actually killed 2 deer with a bow this season, I have never even seen a release except for when I've watched bowhunting shows on tv. I have always used my fingers...one over and two under and I feel pretty confident that this is the way that I would like to continue shooting. However, I'm not opposed to trying a release...maybe I'll like it?....but I would like the option of using my fingers if that is the way I'd like to shoot. So, my question is about using fingers vs a release on these new bows. As I said, I have watched bowhunting shows on tv and have never seen anyone using their fingers. Is this something that people just don't do anymore? If I purchase a new warthog or firecat will I be able to use my fingers if I want to or is their some reason that I will be restricted to using a release? It seems that I have read some posts on here that described cables coming off because of people using their fingers to draw the bow. Is this a problem I need to be aware of before deciding to buy one of these bows to shoot with my fingers?

Basically, at this point, I guess I just need some knowledgeable people to explain the use of a release and to let me know whether I would be able to shoot with my fingers on a new warthog or firecat if I chose to shoot that way. I appreciate any help that anyone is willing to offer.

RobD
01-03-2010, 09:43 AM
I have a 09 Firehawk and I love it,Its very compact 29 3/4 Axle to axle,shots great,and veryFast n Quite,I am a hunter also so the small ata makes it nice,because i don't have to take much cover out around my tree stand to shot,I don't shot fingers so I would not know about your Question,but I would think shooting with a release ,you would be able to hold your draw longer without fingers cramping,probably shoot heavier draw weight, thats just my thoughts though,Im no professional, there are many knowledgeable people on here to help you threw that,hope it works out for ya

alex
01-03-2010, 09:53 AM
TXN, since you're an experienced archer used to finger shooting i'd say you'd better continue this way. The shorter A2A bows (like the Firecat and the Firehawk) are best to shoot with a release - they are not comfortable for fingershooting and are much more accurate with a release. The Warthog can be shoot with fingers but still i guess the release is the better option. The new 2010 Shadowcat or the Scepter are the best choice for fingershooters, so if you can afford them i think they'll be best for you. I have a 42" compound bow which i shoot with fingers only and a 2008 MOAB which i used to shoot this way, but since i've bought a release i am more accurate, which makes me happy :) , but still i prefer finger shooting and am really disappointed that i can't have the Shadowcat.

bfisher
01-03-2010, 10:43 AM
TXN,

Alec has things nsiled down pretty well. With almost any comapny these days you poor finger shooters are limited. You're better off with a longer ATA bow due to finger pinch and acute string angles of the shorter bows. As he said, it's just harder to get off the string well and get a consistent release.

This super short bow craze will probably never go away due to popularity. People get too caught up in portability and maneuverability rather than accuracy. As a general rule longer bows are a bit smoother and balance better, too, but the average hunter usually hasn't tried enough longer bows to compare them with short ones.

You can shoot a shorter bow with parallel limbs somewhat easier just due to different geometry, but depending on your draw length you're still better off with something longer than 36" and probably closer to 39"+.

If you should decide a release is the way to go then your options are wide open and there are a ton of bows and releases to choose from. Best bet here is to try as many of each as you can to see what feels the most comfortable for you.

golfisserious
01-03-2010, 11:55 AM
I am brand new to this forum and Martin bows, but have had experience with bowhunting for about 30 years now. However, my equipment is 30 years old and I'm finally ready to upgrade....that's why I'm here. I live in a pretty remote area and there are no archery shops nearby, so I'm counting on forum members to answer my questions before I order a bow.

I have been leaning toward purchasing a Martin bow and have narrowed my choices down to the Warthog, Firecat, or Firehawk. I want to use the bow for deer hunting, both mule deer and whitetail.

Although I have been shooting a bow and killing deer with it for 30 years and have actually killed 2 deer with a bow this season, I have never even seen a release except for when I've watched bowhunting shows on tv. I have always used my fingers...one over and two under and I feel pretty confident that this is the way that I would like to continue shooting. However, I'm not opposed to trying a release...maybe I'll like it?....but I would like the option of using my fingers if that is the way I'd like to shoot. So, my question is about using fingers vs a release on these new bows. As I said, I have watched bowhunting shows on tv and have never seen anyone using their fingers. Is this something that people just don't do anymore? If I purchase a new warthog or firecat will I be able to use my fingers if I want to or is their some reason that I will be restricted to using a release? It seems that I have read some posts on here that described cables coming off because of people using their fingers to draw the bow. Is this a problem I need to be aware of before deciding to buy one of these bows to shoot with my fingers?

Basically, at this point, I guess I just need some knowledgeable people to explain the use of a release and to let me know whether I would be able to shoot with my fingers on a new warthog or firecat if I chose to shoot that way. I appreciate any help that anyone is willing to offer.

I had this debate with my hunting buddy this year, (I wasn't shooting my "new to me" martin yet) He was hunting with a new 2007 model Browning compound with 60lb draw weight at 29" with 80% lettoff I was shooting a 1987 darton compound 80lb draw at 30" with 30% or less letoff... He shoots fingers I shoot release, both bows (we set them up together every year usually in July) were paper tuned at 10yds... at 15 to 20 yards we were exceptionally competitive with our groups... once past 25yds, there was no comparison in shot groups matter of fact he only put one pin on his bow, 25yds and thats it...he plain just couldn't group a pie plate past that, while up to 40 yards my groups were still the size of the bottom of a beer can.
On the third day of our hunt I shot a doe at 42 yds, he had to pass on a non-typical 9 pt that never came inside 30yds..he didn't have the confidence to take a shot, so that afternoon after skinning out my deer and getting it hung to age... he asked if he could try one of my extra releases...so we zeroed the bow back out, reset the rest to square, put a d-loop on it and he started shooting, about 40 minutes later he was grouping to the bottom of a foam style beer coozy up to 35 yds and he could group in a pie plate at 40yds...
All that said he was most amazed that his "misses" were no longer left or right, they were up down...his only struggle was on adjusting to the new nock point, feeling the release on his cheek instead of the tip of his finger...that said he ended up shooting an 8 point 2 weeks later at just a little over 30 yds, he was ecstatic.
You will be more accurate with a release, it will feel different than your fingers, if you get a bow that shoots over 300fps with your hunting arrow you will most likely have to shoot a release to be consistent, the faster the bows get, the more minor disturbances affect the twisting/turning/bending of the arrow... by moving to a release you will have a better chance of eliminating those things. When I was younger I used to hunt with a tabby, I used several different releases until 2007, this is my favorite hunting and target release http://shop.eaglearchery.com/browse.cfm/4,737.html

shoot many before choosing one, I highly recommend this release for hunting, I have shot from many odd different angles and have never had a problem with this release...
AS WITH THIS RELEASE AND ANY OTHER, DO NOT DRAW WITH YOUR FINGER ON THE RELEASE UNTIL YOU BECOME VERY PROFICIENT WITH IT.

The release my buddy picked out of my box was this one http://shop.eaglearchery.com/browse.cfm/4,7017.html the other thing he really liked was that he could keep his hunting glove on while shooting...

the other thing I would highly recommend when ordering a new bow, is a Whisker Biscuit arrow rest... be sure to order it for the correct arrow size...once you shoot a whisker biscuit you will wonder how you lived without it, be sure to paper tune the whisker biscuit to perfection, and when you flight tune broadheads, only move your sights, not your rest...

With the newer bows, they are "balanced" for the draw, should pretty much only require you to position the grip against the meat of the palm of your hand up in the base of the thumb area, when shooting a release, you won't get the "twist" in your hand that you got with shooting fingers, and as such you need to hold the bow with much less effort (none really) so that you don't impart your own imbalance by twisting/pulling/ pushing/ lifting. A good way to see the proper way to shoot a bow with a release is here http://www.rightforu.com.au/archerytech.html

if you order your bow from someone and you can't be there to set it up, and paper tune it, and speed test it before picking your arrows, then I would recommend waiting and saving your money until you can, specifically the arrows, technology has changed so very much, that the wrong arrow choice to stiff, or to soft can cause you tons of grief.

send me a private message if you are going to do all this on the phone or by computer and I will set you up with Tom at my local archery shop, they don't sell martin, but you could order a bow and have it drop shipped to him and he WILL set it up PERFECTLY. He can also speed test it at your specified draw length and get you set up with the correct arrows. He is the only guy I know that can group at less than one inch at 50yds, not only does he target shoot he also hunts and fills his tags, and he knows his business...He set up my martin, my dads matthews, and my dads martin, we could not be happier with his service or expertise.

good luck

TXN
01-03-2010, 12:54 PM
Thanks for all of the replies...it gives me a lot to think about! At this point, I'm not going to make a decision. I'm a pretty impulsive person, so it's not easy for me to patiently wait on making this purchase, but I think I better be sure of what I want before I buy a bow as it will probably be the last bow I buy for a very long time.

I am certainly not opposed to purchasing a longer bow if it will give me the option of using fingers if I want to. A short bow seems like a great idea for hunting, but I think I could manage to hunt just fine with a longer bow as well. I've been using a longer length bow for 30 years and it has never interfered with my ability to take deer, so the Sceptor or Shadowcat are definately options that I'm willing to consider. However, I think I'd like some more feedback on the idea of using fingers on the Shadowcat.

When I viewed the photos of the Shadowcat, it appears that the limb orientation is very similar to that of the shorter bows as opposed to the way the Sceptor limbs are oriented. Is the Shadowcat really a viable option for finger shooting or would the Sceptor be the more desireable option for using fingers?

I read the experiences of Golfisserious' friend's switch to the use of a release and am intrigued. I wouldn't mind having a bow that would give me the option of going either way. Would the Shadowcat fit this description?

I'm concerned that after shooting with fingers for 30 years, a release might just feel too foreign and I won't like it. I am perfectly happy with shooting with my fingers and have had plently good accuracy to kill many deer over the years, but I do feel restricted to ranges under 30 yards and would love to extend my range a bit farther. If a release could give me confidence to take shots out to 40 yards and beyond, I think I would definately be interested in learning to use one.

The problem I have is that the nearest Martin dealer is about a 5 hour drive from where I live and I won't have an opportunity to go there any time soon. I really don't want to purchase a bow that restricts me to using a release until I have experimented with using one and feel confident that I would like to start shooting that way. So, right now, I'm thinking that I might like to order a Shadowcat or Sceptor and plan to shoot it both ways and see which I prefer. Perhaps this is a bad idea since if I really like using a release, I may regret not purchasing a shorter bow?

Anyhow, I seem to have hit an obstacle here and am not willing to make any decisions until I have more info. On the Martin website, I can't seem to find any info on pricing or ordering the new Shadowcat. Is it not yet available? Where can I find one?

If you guys have any more input on the possibility of shooting the Shadowcat with fingers, I would love to hear what you have to say. Thanks again for all the help so far!

golfisserious
01-03-2010, 05:10 PM
its simple really:

short bow:
fingers will be inaccurate, left, right, up, and down.
you will be confined to a release.

Longer bow:
you might if you are the best finger shooting archer in the world be able to shoot fingers accurately, you will lose some speed of the bow.
release, you should be deadly accurate to at least 60 yds with a longer compound bow.

if you are dead set on having a bow you want to shoot fingers with, you may want to consider a second bow, and it being a long bow, or a recurve.

Part of getting a new compound bow and all its "technology" is using the technology, using fingers, you will be fighting, in my mind the reason for the technology...LONGER more ACCURATE shots with penetration.

Now if you have the money to spare, do what I did, get one on ebay, see how you like it and save yourself a bundle up front... shop smart, search wisely and you can easily get your money back out of your "experimental" purchase. I searched easily over 1000 listings and watch countless "good deals" pass me by for a long long time before I finally stole mine for 150.00 because the guy did a poor job describing the bow.

that said I know you can get an entry level 300fps bow from martin for about 230-240 brand new in the box, and experiment with that before dropping 1200.00

email these guys mailto:customerservice@kmarcheryhut.com and they can set up a private auction for you... be sure to offer low... like 200 bucks for a threshold series bow package, or 180 for the bow by itself...

all in all, go buy a release, set the release below your arrow, on your current bow, or below your lowest knock... before shooting a d loop, I used one knock and used my release to hold the arrow in position against the upper knock... if you buy a 30.00 release, you will get 30.00 dollar performance, the smoothest transition I know of that you will probably get addicted to is the tru-fire bear paw release that I use... everything else just feels wrong to me.

and oh by the way...the first time my buddy shot his bow with the release... he was so suprised when it went off, that he dropped the bow...it was laugh out loud funny.

bfisher
01-03-2010, 05:23 PM
TXN,

I respect your, ummm, indecision at this time. Buying one of these new bows can be quite a daunting experience. Technology has really changed in the last 30 years on these things.

Trying to nswer a bit of your questions, I would say that you won't even get a chance to shoot one for at least a month. Demand for them and some of the other bows has flooded Martin. Most likely they won't be shippingh many till the end of this month. Price wise I think the ShadowCat MSRP is like $749, so that might slow you down, too. It's a pretty good chunk of change so take your time and get something that fits all your desires, whether it be a Martin or not.

There is one thing in your favor at this time. Any bow that is suitable to shoot with fingers can be shot with a release. Not always so doing it the reverse way, though.

There is one other consideration that I haven't seen mentioned and that is the amount of letoff. Most of these bows todayhave 80% letoff and this makes getting off the string cleanly with fingers a bit daunting. Thus, just another reason for the popularity of releases. You could possibly look in the classifieds on www.archerytalk.com for something like a used Scepter with
14" mag limbs or Elite limbs. You just might find a good bargain. It's also possible you'd find one with 65% letoff cams or modules.

Just some thought for you.

TXN
01-03-2010, 05:48 PM
Golfisserious, I can certainly see your point about taking advantage of available technology by learning to use a release. Your comment about becoming deadly accurate out to 60 yards is enough to capture my complete attention! ...ok, where do I sign up?

I've spent quite a bit of time looking at bows online today and that new 2010 Shadowcat is awfully intriguing. I have not found any indication of price on them and haven't found a place to order one. Where can I find one?

I am determined to get a new bow and to have several months of practice time before next deer season comes, so I'm quickly narrowing my choices down to find my next bow. If I had to place an order in the next 5 minutes, I'm pretty sure I'd go with the 2010 Shadowcat. Of course, as I stated earlier, I'm prone to being a little impulsive, so its probably a good thing that I can't find a place to order one!

Another question about using a release as opposed to fingers: Since I have never used a release, I'm wondering about how it will change my anchor point. For the past 30 years, shooting off my fingers, I have always had an anchor point where my index finger is near the corner of my mouth. I don't know if this is proper technique or not...I've just been doing it this way for 30 years and have shot many thousands of arrows this way. So, if I switch to using a release, how much will it change my anchor point and/or draw length? I think my draw length is 29.5, so will a release require that the bow be set up for a shorter draw length than I would use with fingers?

And, again, where do I find a place to order a Shadowcat and how much are they?

TXN
01-03-2010, 05:58 PM
Golfisserious, I can certainly see your point about taking advantage of available technology by learning to use a release. Your comment about becoming deadly accurate out to 60 yards is enough to capture my complete attention! ...ok, where do I sign up?

I've spent quite a bit of time looking at bows online today and that new 2010 Shadowcat is awfully intriguing. I have not found any indication of price on them and haven't found a place to order one. Where can I find one?

I am determined to get a new bow and to have several months of practice time before next deer season comes, so I'm quickly narrowing my choices down to find my next bow. If I had to place an order in the next 5 minutes, I'm pretty sure I'd go with the 2010 Shadowcat. Of course, as I stated earlier, I'm prone to being a little impulsive, so its probably a good thing that I can't find a place to order one!

Another question about using a release as opposed to fingers: Since I have never used a release, I'm wondering about how it will change my anchor point. For the past 30 years, shooting off my fingers, I have always had an anchor point where my index finger is near the corner of my mouth. I don't know if this is proper technique or not...I've just been doing it this way for 30 years and have shot many thousands of arrows this way. So, if I switch to using a release, how much will it change my anchor point and/or draw length? I think my draw length is 29.5, so will a release require that the bow be set up for a shorter draw length than I would use with fingers?

And, again, where do I find a place to order a Shadowcat and how much are they?

golfisserious
01-03-2010, 10:52 PM
http://www.jkarchery.com/servlet/the-63/bows/Detail

I don't know what year this is from, someone on here will know all the model numbers...

bfisher
01-04-2010, 07:23 AM
http://www.jkarchery.com/servlet/the-63/bows/Detail

I don't know what year this is from, someone on here will know all the model numbers...

Looks like a 2005 model. I've got one here right now, but it's a little different. I custom ordered it with SE limb pockets so it ended up being
32 1/2" long with a 9 3/8" brace height. I'm considering getting standard limb pockets and making it a ShadowCat Magnum. It's got 14" straight limbs, B Nitrous X cams, and Winner's Choice rigging.

We'll see. I get a lot of ideas and just never follow through with them. I end up with a new bow instead.

TXN
01-04-2010, 09:21 AM
Sorry about the double post yesterday. I think I clicked my "back" key and it posted it again!

I have still been trying to locate a place where I can order a 2010 Shadowcat, but have been unsuccessful in finding any info online. However, I did run across some info that may explain why, but I'm a little confused about it, so maybe somebody can clear it up for me. Do I understand correctly that Martin Pro Series bows can only be purchased from specific Pro Series dealers and that I will have to actually go to one of these dealers to place an order? Is it not possible to simply place an order on the Martin website and have the bow shipped to me? I'm thinking that when my next payday comes around in 3 weeks, I would like to purchase a new Shadowcat, but I need to find out who I can get one from first. Any good leads on this would be great!

If I have to go to a Pro Series dealer, I think I'm looking at an all day drive to get there, so I would prefer to just have the bow shipped to me if at all possible. They sure don't make it easy to buy one of these bows, do they?

I've considered the option of buying a used bow, but have decided that the newest technology is the way to go since I may not purchase another bow in my lifetime.

I'm still interested in more info on using a release too. Specifically, I'd like to know about how a release will relate to draw length and anchor point compared to using fingers. This is probably a very old subject that has been talked about in great detail in the past, but I have been far removed from the modern archery scene for quite some time and am still stuck somewhere back in the 80's, so a quick refresher on the subject would be most enlightening to me. Thanks!

madlaz
01-04-2010, 09:56 AM
TXN go to archery talk.com wich is owned by Martin and you will find all the Info. thet you are looking for and then some check site out best on web.

alex
01-04-2010, 10:06 AM
Can't answer your first question, because i don't live in the US and my best guess is to use the "find a dealer" or "online shop" options in Martin website. :) About the anchor point - it'll change without any doubt :D - i also used the corner of my mouth, but now i put the knuckle of my index finger under the end of my jаw....or at least this is my best way to describe it in English :rolleyes:

RLW
01-04-2010, 10:58 AM
..........I'm still interested in more info on using a release too. Specifically, I'd like to know about how a release will relate to draw length and anchor point compared to using fingers..........

I've also been shooting fingers a long time and recently switched from fingers to release (just last Sept).
Yes it did shorten my draw length, when using a "D" loop for release attachment, probably end up a full inch shorter by the time I get done messing around........and getting comfortable with a new anchor point was frustrating, but not really that tough.

My finger release is with a glove, one finger over/two under w/thumb set under behind base of ear and top finger under jaw.....been very solid and consistent for me for over 20+ yrs
(finger bow is a '96 Martin Pro-Series Firecat XRG, 43" ATA, pin sight but no peep)

With wrist strap release (Scott Little Goose Deluxe), I ended up placing back knuckle of top finger under base of ear where I used to place my thumb
(release bow is a '09 Martin Bengal, 32" ATA, pin sight and peep)

I would not be able to have one bow tuned/sighted in for my finger shooting and be able to switch to the release on the same bow and have it shoot the same.

Just took a little time to find a spot I could hit naturally/quickly, but now works fine.
One thing I quickly learned with release, is to keep my trigger finger firmly behind the trigger until at full draw and on target, then roll finger around to gently tap trigger to fire.......guess not really different than custom light trigger pull I have on rifles, but after all these years finger shooting bows, I had some mental adjustment to make as well as equipment adjustments.

With finger bow, in perfect conditions, would and have taken a buck at just over 40yds. However, I will admit using a release has improved my groups and my groups are more consistent in all conditions.
The one problem/downside/dislike I still have with a release is that it's slower to get a shot off and just more crap to deal with, but I'm adapting ok.

If I were to buy a new finger bow today, the Martin Shadowcat would be top of my list.
"My" pick for hunting bow w/release......Shadowcat, Warthog, or either Firecat in the Pro series, and Bengal or Pantera in the Gold series.

When I bought my Bengal last fall I wasn't to sure about a 32" ATA, really wanting the 35" Warthog, but not sure about this whole release thing either. The deal was good on the Bengal so went for it. Now after shooting it a while it's actually not bad at all and I'm kind of liking this new tech stuff.

golfisserious
01-04-2010, 11:15 AM
TXN

on page 1 of this thread, 5 posts down is a link to a write up on shooting with release, and a video; he does ramble on but its all good stuff. When my dad switched to release, I had to have him watch all the videos; he wasn't hearing me, when I was telling him that his anchor point was "floating".

That said, he had a double transition, he moved to release for the first time, and used a peep for the first time. He can now group with me to 40yds.

Whereas before, we had lots of blood trailing experiences, on deer he had shot, to say the least. Its funny really when I was about 25, I bought him one of the faux deer targets, to make sure he knew where the kill zone was... he was peeved...we were much more competitive then and I never much paid attention to what he was doing, because I was "beating" him. After I switched to a release, there was no longer any competition, whatsoever.

Side note, I don't think its smart, but I have seen guys that used the metal releases, like the nicer Carter's and they anchored their thumb knuckle at the base of their ear lobe, seemed to me they were awfully close to their peep, but Eric, shot a nice doe this year at just over 40 yds, and made a perfect shot, about 10 minutes after sunset...so its working for him... different strokes for different folks I guess... I just worry that on a left over the shoulder shot, that string is going to rip about half of his face off.

scepter1158
01-04-2010, 04:41 PM
I can relate to this transition from fingers to release very well. I am also a finger shooter starting back in 1972 and having to switch to release in 2002 after fracturing my wrist.

My favorite finger bow was my ScepterII with the Z-cams. It had the A to A, the brace heigth, the speed, the valley and softer wall us finger shooters like at full draw. That bow got me 7th at vegas shooting in the unlimited class in the championship flight and many state NFAA championships in 3D, indoor, and field rounds. I wish I still had it.

I anchore the same as you. So, depending on witch release you are going to use, you are going to give up some draw length. Using a release that has a trigger way foreward such as the Scott Rino and couple of there other models, there won't be much of a loss.

Alot of guys don't recomend the wrist strap releases but I personally get along with them fine. I now shoot the bowhunter release class and I shoot a 300 50+ Xs every Wed. night at league. Even had my share of 60xs. It is all about form. If you are pulling into your shot with your back muscles and don't punch the trigger, you will do fine. I use an older Scott Rino.

Still, I like the longer A to A bows. I have an 08 Firecat right now but don't like shooting it. It is too light. I have solid steel stabilizer weights to help weight it down and it is still too light. I don't feel as stable at full draw as I do with my other bows. It is very fast, quiet, accurate, and no vibration. That is all very sweet. But I like weight.

I do not feel handy capped shooting my longer bows for hunting. My other hunting bow is 40" Ato A and I have no problems getting around with it anywhere I hunt. It is a 96 model, I use the Z-cams on it with my release, 7 1/4" brace, 29" draw, 59lb pull, and shoots 296fps. Just cronoed it yesterday. It's all about what you like.

bfisher
01-04-2010, 04:46 PM
TXN,

Seems you're getting all kinds of good help here. It's a lot to digest isn't it? But it's fun at the same time. Nothing like learning new stuff.

Addressing your question about a possible draw length change. When you draw with fingers the string makes a nice round curve around those fingers. With a release it bcomes a sharper bend so lss radius. This usually means you have to alter the draw length you are used to, 1/2" to 1". If adding a string loop this makes you stretch out more so maybe that full inch will become a necessity.

If you get on Archery Talk and do a search using "shooting form" you'll get all kinds of things to look at. Pay particular attention to posts by Nut&Bolts. This guy has things down to a science and has helped many a shooter on that forum.

You're always going to hear about shooting with perfect form. Someone else will say to forget perfection and shoot what's comfortable. Thing is archery is no different from any other sport involving accuracy. Perfect form is something few ever achieve, but you still have to start with the basics and get a good knowledge base of what is correct and what isn't. Then you can experiment to find what's comfortable staying within the realm of good form. No matter how you do it it has to be repeatable from shot to shot to shot to........

TXN
01-04-2010, 05:42 PM
Yes, I'm getting all sorts of great input here and I really appreciate it. You guys have been far more helpful than I had anticipated!

When I came to this forum, I had done a little research and had decided that the Warthog or Firecat was probably the choice I would make. After just a day of additional learning, I have totally shifted my focus to the new Shadowcat. For one thing, it is just a plain excellent looking bow. Also, after learning a bit about the difference between short and long bows, I think my mind is made up that I want to go with the longer bow. As for the fingers vs release issue, I really like the fact the the Shadowcat would give me the option of sticking with finger shooting if that is what I desire. I have every intention of trying a release in order to see if I can get the hang of it and if I enjoy shooting that way, but I want to be able to say, "no thanks" and go back to fingers if a release doesn't seem to suit me. Still, I see that so many people are shooting with a release and most seem to swear by it that I can't imagine that it is something that I wouldn't be able to catch on to. All of the info you guys have provided on this subject is great and I am continuing to learn more through continued research and going back over the posts you have left. I guess I just need to get a release in my hand and try it for myself.

Considering that I have totally shifted my focus from the warthog/firecat to the Shadowcat in a matter of about a day, I guess its good that I have some time before payday before I commit to buying it. I want to continue learning more in order to be sure that this is the bow for me. It seems like it will be such an incredible bow that I would be surprised if I don't love it.

And still....I can't find a place to buy one. In an earlier post, bfisher suggested that the price of the Shadowcat may be around $749. That is a little more than I had intially planned to pay for a new bow, but then I started thinking that I've paid more than that for some of my rifles, so why wouldn't I expect to pay this much for a really great bow? It actually sounds like a good deal if that is the price! Now, if only I can find one! I haven't made any phone calls to Martin dealers yet because I thought I might be able to find a place to order online, but that is apparently not an option. I think I'll try to make a phone call or two when I get a break from work tomorrow. If anyone has any info on how to order one online, I'd be interested in checking it out. Thanks again for all the help.

TXN
01-04-2010, 05:51 PM
One other question about the Shadowcat: I recall an earlier post in which bfisher mentioned the fact that 80% let-off might make it difficult to get off the string cleanly with the fingers. Is this something that can be easily adjusted on the Shadowcat? I notice that in the specs it says 80% let-off (adjustable). Does that mean that I could simply change the let-off to fit my needs if I wanted to shoot fingers?

bfisher
01-04-2010, 06:09 PM
One other question about the Shadowcat: I recall an earlier post in which bfisher mentioned the fact that 80% let-off might make it difficult to get off the string cleanly with the fingers. Is this something that can be easily adjusted on the Shadowcat? I notice that in the specs it says 80% let-off (adjustable). Does that mean that I could simply change the let-off to fit my needs if I wanted to shoot fingers?

My fault n that one. The answer is yes you can. The most likely adjustment you would make is to move the rotating module to a longer draw lwngth setting and then shorten that setting with the draw stop. In effect what the draw stop does it keeps the cam from rolling completely into it's valley and getting to the 80% letoff point.

This is a very comon practice with many target shooters who want to shoot a lower draw weight, but still maintain a decent holding weight for more solid aiming.

bigbob
01-05-2010, 02:10 AM
Tnx, Hi there.
Pretty much in the same boat as you, regarding fingers and older bows. Only changed from a 20 year compound, an old Hoyt Impala last year to one of a later vintage in a 2001 cougar elite just to get a bit of oomph. Have been a finger shooter all my life, and I got grey hair, but have another bow coming, a new but superseded martin model in a Razor x magnum. I intend to shoot it with sights, peep, release etc, just for hunting so might be able to let you know how someone in a similar situation to yourself goes with it all. I am too contrary to ever go to ''the dark side'' for targets.

Robert58
01-05-2010, 04:04 PM
What bow and ATA lenght have you been shooting all these years? You can up grade to a Martin 2002 Cougar II Elite at 40-1/2" ATA for around $200.00 That is what I use for a hunting bow. Finger pinch is not that much. And it will shoot plenty fast enough with fury cams. With your draw lenght it will easy to fit you with just about any bow you want. They seem to pretty much come from the factory with a 29" draw lenght.

The new bows just don't shoot that much better to justify the extra money to me.

A Cougar III Elite with Nitrous cams sold on ebay last week for $162.95. And you can't get much better than that and still shoot Fingers with it unless you have a perfit release.

Robert

kbaird83
01-06-2010, 07:27 AM
on the fingers vs release subject i shot fingers for 13 years and never thought i'd switch. but once i bought a release i knew right away i would never go back. i love the release. i am far more accurate with the release than i ever was with fingers. instead of using my finger as a ancor point i started using the vein. my biggest issue with releases was that i didnt like how you had to click the trigger forward to latch it on the string. then i found truball. a spring loaded release that automatically closes itself when the trigger isnt being held in. plus the truball doesnt have that hair trigger. i requires more pull and i feel gives me more control.

TXN
01-06-2010, 09:22 AM
I'm still hanging onto the hope that I'll end up with the new Shadowcat, despite the price and the difficulty in obtaining one. I do see your point, Robert58, about saving quite a lot of money and still upgrading to a much better bow, but I'm figuring that I may use this Shadowcat for the next 30 years...if I live that long and can still hunt!..., so the price seems pretty reasonable when I look at it that way. The bow I have always used was given to me as a Christmas gift when I was a teenager and I've been using it to kill deer ever since. I'm calculating that, since I am 44 years old now, another bow that last for 30 years should probably last me the rest of my life. I can pretty easily kill 2 or 3 deer a year with it, so it will pay for itself rather quickly at that rate!

I had posted yesterday in a thread titled "2010 Shadowcat" about the difficulty I've been having in finding a way to buy a new Shadowcat. I called my nearest Pro Series dealer yesterday (384 miles away!) and he informed me that Pro Series bows cannot be shipped and that I must actually come into his shop and purchase over the counter. I would love to visit his shop and have some expert advice on my new bow, but trying to arrange to take off work and travel all those miles seems like a lot of extra expense and hassle to me. Therefore, I called Martin this morning and talked with someone who told me that the online shopping option for the 2010 models will be available in another week or so and, at that time, I can simply order directly from Martin. It will still be drop shipped to my nearest dealer, but he will then ship it on to me. This sounds perfect and I hope it will work out since this same dealer told me yesterday that this is not an option.

As for the finger vs release issue, this is one of the attractions of the Shadowcat to me. I'm thinking that I can start out shooting it with fingers since this is the only way I have ever known and then, at some point in the future, I can explore the option of learning to use a release. I would love to be deadly accurate out to 60 yards and beyond, but I've never had any interest in target competition and have never really had much trouble getting close enough to deer for an easy kill shot, so I'm thinking that my fingers may continue to serve me adequately for what I wish to do with my bow. I will definitely give a release a try, but I don't think I'll ever feel like I'm missing out on much by sticking with my fingers. Of course, I could be wrong and have to eat my words once I experience the use of a release???

Thanks again to all who have posted on this thread and please continue to offer any thoughts you have as they have all been helpful to me.

badger561
01-06-2010, 01:46 PM
I agree with Golfisserious. With all the new tech out there I to have become very acurate at 60 yards and Im not scared to take a shot at an animal at 65-70 if need be. I was a finger shooter as well and i wont go back unless I get a jaguar or something. Good luck and most of all enjoy yourself learning something new.