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View Full Version : Idler worn off after 21/2 months on new Jaguar ?



romi
07-13-2006, 11:20 PM
Hi,
I would like to know if it is normal to have idler wheel worn off on one side ( towards cable guard ) to rasor sharp edge ? I noticed that braiding on this side of the bow started to fall appart and after fiding out what's wrong, I am not surprised. Is this normal on factory setup bow bought completelly new 21/2 monhs ago at Pro Shop?:eek:

Thank you,
Roman

Myk
07-14-2006, 08:37 AM
No that is not normal and it doesn't sound safe to shoot.
I shot my Phantom II Fuzion a lot for 2 years and never had anything like that.

You should take it to your pro shop for repair. If the pro shop is no longer there contact Martin.

I can think of why it's doing it, because the angles of the strings to the cable guard is extreme on short bows and you may be shooting a high profile fletching requiring that angle to be even more extreme. You also must have some kind of dirt or abrasive dust getting on it.

After it's fixed I would think about waxing the serving, if you're using Blazers switch to a normal profile vane, cut your cable clearance down to a minimum and keep the bow stored in a case.

romi
07-14-2006, 11:55 AM
This bow is new, with original string on it , the serving on the side of idler is falling appart even though the string itself seems to be OK for now. But I agree with you, I don't think it is safe. The guard is set as it came from Martin as the guy in the pro shop didn't tamper with it as it would require to remove the sight first due to the locking screws position. And I can see how far from the centre line it is pulling the cables! I am completelly new to this so I didn't notice it until now and thought that the string wear is normal with my shooting about 250-300 arrows a week. For starting, I am using RedHead Carbon Fury arrows with plastic vanes which don't seem to be that big. The clearance seems to be rather big, about 3/8 between the vane and the cables.
My bow is Jaguar Magnum 31" 60# set at 55#
and I do have big honky plastic carrying case where the bow is when I am not playing with it.

Myk
07-14-2006, 01:03 PM
Your cable guard clamp screw is on the wrong side if you have to remove your sight to get at it. When it's apart have the clamp swapped around. It should be accessible from the other side.

I don't think cable guards come installed from the factory. Either the user or the prop-shop puts them on and sets them.
I'm not sure if the bow packages come all assembled or not.

3/8" clearance is way too much. I have 1/16" on my Phantom II Mag Dyna and none of my arrows show signs of hitting.
It's still odd it would wear that fast especially since it's stored in a case. I have all kinds of abrasive dusts in my house and never had anything like that.

romi
07-14-2006, 01:21 PM
It is odd, isn't it. Considering its supposed to be anodized aluminium. It is really paper thin. I would expect this from some cheap aluminium. But not this fast anyway. No excessive amount of dust in the house, maybe little dog hair. That would have to be really abrasive stuff anyway to cause this that fast. Unless the serving is made of something like that...

Thank you for the info

Stash
07-15-2006, 02:33 AM
romi bought the bow from the store where I work. He brought it in today, and I was amazed - I have never seen anything like it. The idler wheel is machined completely off-center - the right side of the groove is as he described, knife-sharp and the left side is abnormally thick. It's not worn - it was just machined badly.

We have replaced his Jaguar with a new one and will be contacting Martin regarding replacing the idler and string.

I will try to take some photos of the idler on Monday and post them here. Looks like this:

Stash
07-15-2006, 02:38 AM
Your cable guard clamp screw is on the wrong side if you have to remove your sight to get at it. When it's apart have the clamp swapped around. It should be accessible from the other side.

I don't think cable guards come installed from the factory. Either the user or the prop-shop puts them on and sets them.
I'm not sure if the bow packages come all assembled or not.



This Jaguar package does come pre-assembled from the factory with a plastic 3-pin sight/bowquiver mount, and the cable guard is tightened with 2 small set screws that are under the sight mount. romi has changed the sight that originally came with his bow, but the cable guard was still in its original factory-set position. I don't think that the amount of offset was in any way responsible for the problem. Just a bad idler wheel.

Myk
07-15-2006, 04:14 AM
I just looked at the '06 Jags, so they don't have the same clamp system as the others? They also still have the slotted berger (which I liked).

I agree, if the center of the bottom of the groove is off center like your picture it was machined that way. Very strange that a CNC machine would be that far off in that direction.
Must've been start of Monday shift or end of Friday shift work :)

Stash
07-17-2006, 11:22 PM
Pic of the idler...

Stash
07-17-2006, 11:23 PM
With the string off...

Stash
07-17-2006, 11:26 PM
What it did to the string...

Bubba101st
07-18-2006, 06:24 PM
Looks to me like the lathe wasn't set up right when it was machined. I would have it replaced ASAP. I would think that Martin will take care of it for you. It is obviously a machining problem and in my opinion should have been caught during QC or at least during Assembly. As a machinist, It is something that i would have caught right off the lathe.

romi
07-18-2006, 07:45 PM
All right guys, you almost convinced me that it is a machining problem. I just can't bring myself to believe that it would take me almost 3 months to see something so obvious. You know how it is, it's a new toy and besides just shooting I am trying to learn how to tune it for myself and that involves some measuring, visual examining, etc. How could I miss this for so long? Never mind Martin's QC. Anything can of course go wrong with the CNC machining, program, calibration, tools adjustment, raw part misplacement. It does happen.
Stash from Pro Shop was kind enough and replaced my bow so now I am happily shooting from a new one. Yet, I will still watch for any signs of abrasion on the side of the cable guard.:)

Bubba101st, you didn't see anything like that on your bow since my is the same type?

Thanx

Myk
07-18-2006, 09:55 PM
My Dyna idler is a little off, but I'm talking .002", nothing like that.

That's definitely machining, the radius in the groove is the same on both sides and that is where wear would happen. The piece or a tool got chucked up wrong or someone was leaning on the keypad :)

I'm amazed everybody between the machine and you failed to notice.

Bubba101st
07-18-2006, 10:45 PM
All right guys, you almost convinced me that it is a machining problem. I just can't bring myself to believe that it would take me almost 3 months to see something so obvious. You know how it is, it's a new toy and besides just shooting I am trying to learn how to tune it for myself and that involves some measuring, visual examining, etc. How could I miss this for so long? Never mind Martin's QC. Anything can of course go wrong with the CNC machining, program, calibration, tools adjustment, raw part misplacement. It does happen.
Stash from Pro Shop was kind enough and replaced my bow so now I am happily shooting from a new one. Yet, I will still watch for any signs of abrasion on the side of the cable guard.:)

Bubba101st, you didn't see anything like that on your bow since my is the same type?

Thanx
Just to make sure I took another good look at mine. I put the calipers to it and it is about .001 to .0015 off, which is really nothing. I maybe should have mentioned that i was a machinist for a few years after I got out of the military.

Stash
08-03-2006, 05:08 AM
Follow-up: We got a replacement idler and string/cable from Martin and have repaired the bow. Thanks to Joel and Martin Archery for the good service.

hunter
08-10-2006, 01:48 AM
I would say..No, That is not normal.. and I bet martian takes care of it for you ..There service has always been good to me ..