PDA

View Full Version : Cat 1.5 or Hybrix 1.5 cam ?????



scepterman30x
02-24-2010, 07:10 AM
Fellas I posted the following on AT with no response yet. Maybe someone here has a clue.


"Folks I recieved my 2010 Shadow Cat the other day...set it up and have been shooting it for a couple of weeks now. Shoots so good I almost have an organism. When it first arrived I noticed it had Hybrix mods on it so I figured it had Hybrix cams......so I called Joel at Martin and asked him if they put a few together with the Hybrix instead if the Cats and he said they probably just put Hybrix mods on it (he said its pretty much the same as the Cat mod just with a little smoother draw), anyway to make a long story short...has anyone recieved theirs with cams other than the Cats and if so can someone shoot me a pic of a Hybrix 1.5 so I can definatly come the conclusion of what kind of cam my "Cat" has, cause it don't look like a Cat cam of any sort?"

wisecane
02-24-2010, 08:17 AM
Hey Scott,

go to this thread: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://rytera.com/at/rytera20101c.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php%3Ft%3D1054808%26page%3D7&usg=__GWlfq5BqpD2PMGs7wFHLVyIO5q8=&h=969&w=1000&sz=240&hl=en&start=2&itbs=1&tbnid=ZrlMqxLQ8ErJiM:&tbnh=144&tbnw=149&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhybrix%2Bcams%26hl%3Den%26gbv%3D2%26t bs%3Disch:1

and scroll down. There is a large pic of an Alien.

scepterman30x
02-24-2010, 08:37 AM
Yep I already saw it. I don't think it is a 1.5. It's probably the larger one.

bfisher
02-24-2010, 07:49 PM
Scott, post a pic if possible. I've got 2010 Cat cams on my FireCat so I could see how yours compare to mine. I'd love to be able to compare them to the ones on my Alien Z, but alas, I'm still patiently waiting for the "Z" to arrive. Would you believe I ordered it Nov. 6th?

scepterman30x
02-25-2010, 10:42 AM
I will try to post some pics ASAP. Just as a note...I am talking about 1.5 Matrix or Cats not the regular cams for either.

JimmyIkeLee
02-25-2010, 11:38 AM
You have the cat 1.5 cams on your bow. they used those mods on a few to get them shipped out

scepterman30x
02-25-2010, 12:12 PM
Thanks JIL I will take your word for that. They do seem to be more concentric than the regular cats though.

scepterman30x
02-25-2010, 06:37 PM
Barry here are the pics. Let me know. Thanks, Scott

bfisher
02-25-2010, 07:13 PM
Scott,

Looking at the pics, which you should have resized smaller but will do for now, I'd definitely say you have the Hybrix 1.5. Those don't look anything like any Cat cam I've seen.

So how do you like that ShadowCat? Too bad it doesn't go short enough for me. I think with the riser geometry and A2A it would make a very acceptable dual purpose bow for 3D and field. Maybe even work fairly well for target.

So what's the chance you'll retire a Scepter or two now that you've made a venture into the modern era?

scepterman30x
02-26-2010, 05:13 AM
You have the cat 1.5 cams on your bow. they used those mods on a few to get them shipped out


Thanks JIL I will take your word for that. They do seem to be more concentric than the regular cats though.


Barry here are the pics. Let me know. Thanks, Scott


Scott,

Looking at the pics, which you should have resized smaller but will do for now, I'd definitely say you have the Hybrix 1.5. Those don't look anything like any Cat cam I've seen.

So how do you like that ShadowCat? Too bad it doesn't go short enough for me. I think with the riser geometry and A2A it would make a very acceptable dual purpose bow for 3D and field. Maybe even work fairly well for target.

So what's the chance you'll retire a Scepter or two now that you've made a venture into the modern era?

JIL, I take it from your location and your ocupation you would definatly know for sure. Will you please confirm Barry's (Bfisher's) assumptions. Barry I will repost and tell you how I like it.

Thanks all,

Scott

TXN
02-26-2010, 09:13 AM
I'm totally confused now about the difference between CAT 1.5 and Hybrix cams and am not sure what I have. I've run into a problem with trying to put long draw modules on my 2010 Shadowcat. I called up the dealer that I order the bow from and he sent me a set of long draw mods. However, they do not fit; the holes simply will not line up no matter how I look at it. I called them back and explained that I received the wrong mods, so they sent out the "correct' ones. I just received them and they are identical to the first wrong set I received. The holes are just too far apart and can't fit. The mods have C.A.T. stamped into them and are gray in color. I'm at work right now, so I can't include a photo. Does anyone have a picture of the correct long draw mods so I could compare? In fact, after reading the previous posts in this thread, I'm not even sure what cams I have.

scepterman30x
02-26-2010, 09:34 AM
Anyone...anyone...Bueler...anyone?:D

TXN
02-26-2010, 05:01 PM
I'm attempting to attach pics of the long draw modules that I received and a pic of the cam on my bow. It would be really helpful if one of you guys could help me clear up my confusion. What kind of cams do I have and am I correct that these are the wrong modules for these cams? Thanks!

scepterman30x
02-26-2010, 05:39 PM
Testing picture size.

scepterman30x
02-26-2010, 05:56 PM
Looks like you have the same ones as me. Could someone please walk me through how to resize pics. I'm not computer illiterate but I am no Bill Gates either.

TXN
02-26-2010, 06:10 PM
I'm not too good at this either and I had trouble getting my pics to upload, but then i started clicking along my toolbar and found an option that said "resize picture"...that fixed the problem and I was able to post the pics. Sorry I can't be more help, but I'm pretty clueless about it myself. And, yes, I see that your cams are the same as mine. Are these the Hybrix? Is that why the long draw modules they sent me don't fit? For some reason I was thinking that Hybrix and CAT 1.5 were the same, but it appears that I'm wrong. What do I need to ask for when I order my long draw modules again?

bfisher
02-26-2010, 06:47 PM
Guys, although I've never seen Hybrix cams up close and personal I'm certain that these are Hybrix. They don't look anything even close to a Cat cam.

As for the modules? They look like those on a Cat cam so may not work on the Hybrix. You say they don't and I'll take your word for it.

scepterman30x
02-26-2010, 07:25 PM
I'm not too good at this either and I had trouble getting my pics to upload, but then i started clicking along my toolbar and found an option that said "resize picture"...that fixed the problem and I was able to post the pics. Sorry I can't be more help, but I'm pretty clueless about it myself. And, yes, I see that your cams are the same as mine. Are these the Hybrix? Is that why the long draw modules they sent me don't fit? For some reason I was thinking that Hybrix and CAT 1.5 were the same, but it appears that I'm wrong. What do I need to ask for when I order my long draw modules again?

Well first and foremost, we need to find out 100% sure what cams we have.

TXN
02-27-2010, 05:54 AM
I called yesterday afternoon and left a message with Martin tech support and am still waiting for a call back. If they call me, I'll try to get to the bottom of this and determine what's going on with these cams/modules. Will post here if I learn anything.

scepterman30x
02-27-2010, 06:23 AM
TXN, If you don't mind (don't know what the gist of the convesation will be), ask them to look at these post and see for themselves. Like the old saying is "A picture is worth a 1000 words.

TXN
02-27-2010, 06:41 AM
Yes, I intend to direct them to this thread or send the pics directly to them. I would like to call in my order for the long draw modules today, so I'm hoping to get this cleared up asap. When I ordered the bow, the dealer asked me what cams I wanted on it and I responded, "CAT 1.5". The box that I received the bow in has a sticker on it that says, "Shadowcat 4X Coreflex CAT 1.5 Cam". When I ordered the long draw modules for the second time, I was very specific in explaining that they needed to be for the CAT 1.5 cams. You can see in the pics what they sent me and I am certain that they do not fit. Therefore, this must be a hybrix cam, but I want verification from Martin before I order the modules again. I would also like to know why the bow came with cams other than what are advertised to come on it. What are the differences between hybrix and cat 1.5 and am I better off with the cams I have or is there a reason I might prefer the cat 1.5?

edit: I just noticed that Martin isn't even open on Saturday, so I guess I won't hear from them until Monday now. I left a message several hours before closing time yesterday, so I was expecting a call back yesterday.

TXN
02-27-2010, 06:51 AM
I did a search for hybrix images and from what I can tell, they don't look the same, so now I'm really wondering.....

bfisher
02-27-2010, 03:04 PM
You guys are really intent. I just took some pics of my 2010 Cat 2 cams and am going to try to post them after resizing. If you'll notice they are not the same as what is in your pictures.

Seems like it worked. The one on the left is the top cam. The one on the right is the bottom.

I wish I had recieved my Alien Z with Cat 1.5 cams to show for comparison but I'm still waiting.

scepterman30x
02-27-2010, 05:40 PM
Personally I love the ones I have and I think you will too. However I do want to know for sure what I have. Heck if they are the Hybrix 1.5 instead of the Cat 1.5 they are made for a Rytera so they must be a step up at that.

Spiker
02-28-2010, 06:51 AM
This wont help with the 1.5 questions but here is a pic of the Hybrix 2.0 and the C.A.T 2.0.

scepterman30x
02-28-2010, 06:56 AM
They definatly more resemble the Hybrix if you ask me.

TXN
02-28-2010, 10:25 AM
The dealer that I bought the bow and the modules from will open in a couple of hours from now, so I'm going to give him a call and see if I can email some pics to him and have him tell me what's going on with these cams. I'll post here as soon as I know something.

scepterman30x
02-28-2010, 10:26 AM
[QUOTE=TXN;24488]Yes, I intend to direct them to this thread or send the pics directly to them. I would like to call in my order for the long draw modules today, so I'm hoping to get this cleared up asap. When I ordered the bow, the dealer asked me what cams I wanted on it and I responded, "CAT 1.5". The box that I received the bow in has a sticker on it that says, "Shadowcat 4X Coreflex CAT 1.5 Cam". When I ordered the long draw modules for the second time, I was very specific in explaining that they needed to be for the CAT 1.5 cams. You can see in the pics what they sent me and I am certain that they do not fit. Therefore, this must be a hybrix cam, but I want verification from Martin before I order the modules again. I would also like to know why the bow came with cams other than what are advertised to come on it. What are the differences between hybrix and cat 1.5 and am I better off with the cams I have or is there a reason I might prefer the cat 1.5?

edit: I just noticed that Martin isn't even open on Saturday, so I guess I won't hear from them until Monday now. I left a message several hours before closing time yesterday, so I was expecting a call back yesterday.[/QUOTE

Just to let you know I have a pair of the CAT mods and matched them up with the hole spacing on the Hybrix mods and they line up the same (cats do seem to have a little more agressive draw cycle than the Hybrix mods). So that being said this is just an assumption because I don't have a Cat 1.5...or at least I don't know what I have yet. So what I am saying is the longer draw mods may not be made for the "1.5" cams or whatever we have. Anyone else chime in if you can better enlighten us.

scepterman30x
02-28-2010, 10:29 AM
Scott,

Looking at the pics, which you should have resized smaller but will do for now, I'd definitely say you have the Hybrix 1.5. Those don't look anything like any Cat cam I've seen.

So how do you like that ShadowCat? Too bad it doesn't go short enough for me. I think with the riser geometry and A2A it would make a very acceptable dual purpose bow for 3D and field. Maybe even work fairly well for target.

So what's the chance you'll retire a Scepter or two now that you've made a venture into the modern era?

Barry has asked how I like it. I can honestly say I like it as much and or maybe better than my Scepters.
I will post some real world specs/stats later today for you guys that want to know how it performs.

TXN
02-28-2010, 10:42 AM
Well, all I know for sure is that the long draw module's holes will not line up with the cams that I have. When I look at the owner's manual that came with the bow, there is discussion on page 10 about CAT DUO/ HYBRIX cams and it states that there are long draw modules available with holes #8 and #9. Also, when I called Martin and talked to Joel, he assured me that the long draw mods were available for the Shadowcat. Perhaps, they don't all come with the same cams??? I intend to find out asap.

TXN
02-28-2010, 12:32 PM
Ok, I contacted the dealer and they asked me to email a pic of the cams to them. I did so, and they said they will have to contact Martin in the morning and show them the picture in order to figure out what type of cams these are. So.....I guess I'll have some info to post after I hear from them tomorrow.

TXN
03-01-2010, 02:39 PM
I just called the dealer again to inquire about what Martin says about the cams. He said he sent the picture of the cams to Martin this morning, but has not heard back from them. He told me he will call there and get some answers for me this afternoon, so I'm still waiting.

TXN
03-02-2010, 07:01 AM
Well, still more of the same. Martin has not returned my call and the dealer failed to call back yesterday, so I still don't have any answers regarding what cams these are or if long draw modules are available for them. To further complicate things, my cell phone has no service today, so I won't be able to receive any phone calls from them. I guess I'll try to call them after work when I get back into cell service range. I find it interesting that the dealer I've purchased the bow from, who happens to be a major Martin Pro Series dealer, located quite near the factory, can't tell me what cams these are on my bow.

scepterman30x
03-02-2010, 07:37 AM
Thanks, Keep me informed. You would think some one would be able to let us know. It seems to be a simple question. All they would have to do is say "yes you have this or that" or "no you don't have this or that but what you have is.....". I'm sure folks at Martin look at these post. I have already sent an e-mail to "Archery History" (Terry Martin) and a PM to "PUG" (Jake) for them to just look and let me know but no word yet.

TXN
03-02-2010, 09:16 AM
I just talked with Joel at tech support and he looked at this thread and viewed the pictures while I had him on the phone. He said that these are definitely the CAT 1.5 cams and that he had heard that there was a problem with long draw mods fitting it and perhaps someone was trying to iron that out. He said he will look into it further and then get ahold of the dealer that I purchased the bow from to determine what to do about the problem. What he said will probably happen is that I'll have to send the bow back to have it retro-fitted with the regular size CAT cams in order to get a 30in DL with 65% letoff since no long draw mods are available for this cam. Not really the answer I was hoping for, but I suppose I'll either have to live with a DL or letoff that isn't right for me or I'll have to send my bow off for a few weeks.

scepterman30x
03-02-2010, 10:12 AM
Well at least we know what they are now. They sure don't look like Cats to me though. I remember shooting a tourney with Laura in Gainville, Fl. and she was shooting a Warthog with "Kitty" cams (prototypes she said were just for her at the time) I know Bfisher was disapointed that they were not available; they looked like Cats just smaller. I guess I was expecting something similar. I will have to give Joel credit though...he did tell me when I first inquired what I had but when you are used to seeing something engineered one way you kind of expect a smaller version to be similar also. I never Known him to steer me wrong yet. I was going to say he could just send strings and cams to you and you could do it. However going to the regular Cats will probably involve a limb change to keep your draw weight in check.

TXN
03-02-2010, 10:47 AM
At this point, I would be interested in learning more about the "tweaking" techniques that I've heard mentioned on this subject before. I'm wondering if there is a possibility that I can achieve 30 DL AND get 65% letoff with the CAT 1.5 cams? Perhaps I need to go back and play around with the draw stop to see what I can do. There was mention of string twisting in another thread on this subject....can someone explain to me how I might use this to accomplish a 30 in DL with 65% letoff?

scepterman30x
03-02-2010, 12:04 PM
Basicly what you are doing is retarding or advancing the cam rotation to get the most efficiency out of the cam. Efficiency to most generally equates to speed. For me it is accuracy, tunability and forgiveness...speed coming in last as far as importance. I take it for you it is DL, Let off, and then speed. No one will explain how to do it...what they will do is direct you to the post that has already been explained by Gstundt. He has done a great job in explaining it. He was using the regular Cat cam which is a little more "lobeless" than the 1.5 Cat so you may be handicapped as far as that goes (being able to advance the cam).

bfisher
03-02-2010, 04:20 PM
Well, I'm glad to see this get resolved, even if I was wrong. Like Scott said, from all the pics I'd seen I expected the Cat 1.5 to be just a miniature clone of the Cat 2. That and from the pics of the Rytera bows the cams sure looked like Hybrix to me.

And as I've said before. It'd be a lot easier for me if I had a bow with the Hybrix 1.5 cams on it------the "Z" I ordered Nov 6th. Still waiting.

TXN
03-03-2010, 09:07 AM
I finally heard from the dealer that I purchased the Shadowcat from. He talked to Joel and they decided that the only option for me to reach 65% letoff at 30 inches DL is to go with the Cat2 cams. Therefore, the dealer is going to send me a new bow outfitted with CAT2 cams and I'm going to send this one back. However, I'm getting ready to leave town for a week, so we're going to wait to make the exchange until after I return. These CAT 1.5 cams seem to be really nice and I wish I could keep them, but there's just no way to reach my desired specs with them. I wonder how much difference the CAT2 cams will make on this bow? I'm almost tempted to shoot a DL that's a little too short and keep these cams, but I would probably regret doing that, so I guess I'll make the exchange. Any thoughts on how the CAT2 cams will change the performance of the bow?

scepterman30x
03-03-2010, 10:10 AM
I think you will be happy with them. If I were you and you want a smoooooth draw tell them to send you some Hybrix mods instead of the Cat mods. Keep me/us informed.

scepterman30x
03-03-2010, 10:29 AM
At this point, I would be interested in learning more about the "tweaking" techniques that I've heard mentioned on this subject before. I'm wondering if there is a possibility that I can achieve 30 DL AND get 65% letoff with the CAT 1.5 cams? Perhaps I need to go back and play around with the draw stop to see what I can do. There was mention of string twisting in another thread on this subject....can someone explain to me how I might use this to accomplish a 30 in DL with 65% letoff?

Lets talk about this for a minute. I don't want to talk you out of anything you really want to do but I was thinkin.
Think about it...my bow should be the same as yours. My bow is in the #3 hole at precisely 28.5 using the DS and I have a 75% or so letoff (does not hit the bottom of the mod) so that tells me that I have hole space #4,5,6 and 7 to use if need be. At 1/2" for each hole#6 would be 30" and #7 would be 30.5" with the same distance from the mod bottoming out as compaired to it in the 3# hole.That being said...unless you don't have enough travel in your DS you should be able to get 30" with your DS (provided it don't fall into the reasons stated prior) and with your mod in the #7 hole should give you 65%or so letoff.
All this is being said it is using interpolation from my bow.

TXN
03-04-2010, 08:45 AM
Well, Scepterman, I certainly like the sound of your idea better than sending the bow back and having a new one shipped with the CAT2 cams. The problem I have is that I don't have any way to accurately measure DL or draw weight on my bow. However, I am going to be making a trip to Houston, Texas for a week and was thinking that I might take the Shadowcat with me and then find an archery shop over there who can help me to try to find the spot I'm looking for with these modules and draw stop. Maybe you are correct and I can get what I'm looking for with the current set-up.

TXN
03-04-2010, 09:17 AM
I located a Martin Pro Series dealer in Houston and I just called them. I explained the situation and he says I should bring the bow in next week and he will see what can be done to get to my DL with a 65% letoff. I think it will be a wise move to try to get it to work with the CAT 1.5 before I send it back and trade off for the CAT2 cams. I'll keep you guys informed as to how it works out. Keeping my fingers crossed that Scepterman's extra half inch will translate to the same for me. A half inch doesn't seem like that much, but that tiny difference in my anchor point was very noticeable to me. My finger was touching just forward of the corner of my mouth as opposed to just behind it as I'm used to. In order to get there, I could tell that I was having to push my neck forward....just didn't like the way it felt. Maybe I can get where I need to be by experimenting with the drawstop. Perhaps I could get by with a DL of 29.75?

scepterman30x
03-04-2010, 10:38 AM
You mentioned your finger. Do you shoot with fingers or a release? That may make a difference in the DL a little since the angle in the string would not come back as far because of the curvature of the fingers.
On anothe note theis is how I check my DL. Follow me carefully cause I don't want to confuse you.

Take an old arrow w/ the knock and no fletching. Measure from the bottom of the nock groove to about lets just say 25" (you can use any length you want to start at) (you may want to go longer since your draw is longer) then add another 1.75" to that length and mark the arrow. That is now the 25" point you will use for the AMO draw length and of course each inch more or less from this point is the actual AMO DL.
Now here is how to use it.
Measure the brace height, then measure the string to a reference point on the rest (usually the forward most part), whatever the difference is from your BH measurement add or subtract that to whatever the forward most part of the rest comes to onthe arrow as far as the reference points you put on the shaft. That measurement is you actual true AMO DL.
I hope I have not totally confused you.

TXN
03-04-2010, 10:53 AM
Thanks, Scepterman. I only had a moment to read your post because I have to go back to work, but I'll read it again after work. Yes, one of the main attractions of the Shadowcat for me is that I shoot fingers and wanted a new bow that would serve as a good finger bow. I see that it could be the difference between making my drawlength or not. The shop I talked to in Houston seems to have good reviews and the guy I talked to on the phone seemed helpful and knowledgeable, so I'm hoping I can get some good advice on all of this once I get face to face with someone who can take a look at the bow and my drawlength.

TXN
03-17-2010, 10:49 AM
Ok, I'm back from my trip to Houston and it looks like I'll be getting a new Shadowcat shipped to me. I took the bow into a Martin Pros Series dealer in Houston and he checked out my drawlength and then fiddled with the cams a bit and determined that there was no possibility of reaching my drawlength with the CAT1.5 cams.

Something I did find surprising however: When I first came into his shop and started explaining the situation, he immediately picked up the phone and made a direct call to Joel at Martin Archery. Before I had a chance to explain that I and dealer I purchased from had already talked to Joel and determined that I the long draw modules won't fit the 1.5, he had Joel on the phone, inquiring of him. The surprising thing was that Joel sugeested that I put the CAT long draw mods on it! I then had to stop the guy and tell him that Joel had already informed me that they won't fit....he relayed that to Joel and then the new suggestions was to replace the cams with CAT2. Sooo....nothing accomplished other than to confirm that the CAT 1.5 will not work for me.

I have contacted the dealer that I purchased the Shadowcat from and he is working on getting a new bow with the CAT2 cams shipped to me. Hopefully, it will be done correctly. It seems like this situation has been dragging out for quite a long time now.

The dealer in Houston did inform me that he think the CAT1.5 cams are a bad design for anyone with a longer draw. He had it on his draw board and was showing me something about how the cables are situated in the cams at full draw and said that it is simply not a good cam for longer draw lengths. he seemed to know what he was talking about, but i suppose that may just be his personal opinion. I'm just hoping I can finally get a Shadowcat with cams that are going to work for me.