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sluggo
03-15-2010, 02:45 PM
I have a brand new 2009 Cheetah coming in the mail from a Martin dealer. It supposedly has the CCS & STS factory installed, not dealer installed or so he says.

#1 - I've read that when you use the CCS you should also use a slightly longer cable. If the bow comes from the factory with the CCS installed does the bow also come with the longer cable?

#2 - Does the 2009 Cheetah really weigh 3.4lbs or is that "optimistic" or should I say, what does it really weigh?

#3 - Does the CCS & STS provide any real benefit or would I be better off going with the standard cable guard and string silencers?

#4 - I know it says IBO is 315-320fps but realistically what should I expect from a 60lb pull, 29" draw, 380gr arrow and nothing on the string but a D-loop and a G-5 Meta peep?

Thank you.

Brem
03-15-2010, 07:02 PM
Here goes

#4 first - with that setup you will be between around 275fps(that heavy arrow is robbing allot of speed)

#3 - The CCS provides ample clearance for any vane or feather and the STS does quiet the bow and eliminate string slap.

#2 - never put the one I had on the scale but it is less than 4#s

#1 - If you put the CCS on yourself yes you need longer cables and string to not get the added preload that amountds to an additional 5-10# on your setup. If it came factory with the CCS they likely use a different deflection limb and the normal cable length.

sluggo
03-15-2010, 08:51 PM
Thanks for the info Brem, much appreciated.

So, for the rest of you out there, does Brem have it pretty well nailed or are there other thoughts to the questions? Somebody has probably weighed a Cheetah?

RLW
03-16-2010, 06:51 AM
#1: My '09 Bengal came with factory installed CCS and STS.......the factory cable was 1/2" longer. With that exception, all else was the same as the standard model.

#2: Agree w/Brem.

#3: Agree w/Brem, although I'm not personally convinced yet that the CCS really does much, but sure doesn't hurt either, so if it comes with it, great.

#4: My guess for your set-up would be 270-275.
Even though by my old school standards a 380gr grain arrow isn't what I would call heavy (I use 425gr & 465gr), you are loosing some from IBO.
Estimates I use based on measurements I've taken on my Martin bows are:
1" Draw Length = 10fps <-10>
1lb Draw weight = 2.5fps <-25>
4.4grs = 1fps <-7>
Then for string accessories it varies, but I've typically seen only +/-3fps for all items you mention.

That reminds me. Did a speed check last weekend comparing a tube/peep (56gr) vs G5 peep (4.5gr). On my set-up, the gain going from yube/peep to G5 peep was 5 fps.
Added cat whiskers later, approx 3" from cam/wheel, for a loss of 2 fps

sluggo
03-16-2010, 09:12 AM
Brem & RLW,
I just received a reply from Martin that "if the bow is ordered with a factory CCS the 1/2" longer cable is installed" so that question is definitively answered.

If I can get 270-275 fps out of the setup I described I will be very happy indeed so I am hopeful.

So the STS should reduce or eliminate wrist slap and reduce bow noise. Sounds good to me. It would be nice to not have to add silencers to the string to take string noise out so that's cool.

Thanks guys for your help with these questions.

In pictures it doesn't look like Martin puts serving over the idler wheel area or around the CCS area. Do you think I will need to do that to prevent premature string wear?

RLW
03-16-2010, 09:56 AM
Not sure what you mean by the STS eliminating a wrist strap, but it will reduce string noise.....however, on my set-up, the cat whiskers still reduce it even more.

Martin strings do not wrap over idler wheel and adding extra serving weight to factory string "might" slow speed slightly.
The Winners Choice string I just had put on, does have serving over idler wheel, but strings are different, so can't say what impact the extra serving alone actually had.

This is my first single cam bow. I really don't know if it will would make much difference on wear.
My gut feeling is it's not that big a deal and you will probably change strings before wear becomes a factor due to that issue.

sluggo
03-16-2010, 10:08 AM
Opps, typo. Wrist slap, not wrist strap. Thanks.

brushrat
03-16-2010, 10:09 AM
yes the sts will eliminate wrist slap. If it is to be used for a hunting bow then you will need something on your string. I've tryed several of those little "leeches" and "bats" but always go back to the "whiskers". They are the quietest on my bow, hands down. Good luck:)

RLW
03-16-2010, 10:20 AM
........I've tryed several of those little "leeches" and "bats" but always go back to the "whiskers". They are the quietest on my bow, hands down. Good luck:)
me too...tried the others and whiskers were not only as quiet or quiter, but held up better and seemed to have less effect on speed. (although that was minor)

sluggo
03-16-2010, 10:55 AM
Any particular type of whiskers you guys like or are they all pretty much the same?

RLW
03-16-2010, 12:10 PM
I've never noticed much difference.
They typically come two strips to a pack, but as guy in this video shows http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6WNxTLPJW0&feature=related you can put them on using one of them.
Even a small tie wrap works ok too for holding them in place when mounted as shown in vid.

sluggo
03-16-2010, 12:25 PM
Love the video. Don't even think I could screw that up. I'm going to try that on one of my other bows tonight.

tarheeler88
03-18-2010, 06:17 PM
Sluggo,

I hate to dissapoint...but I have an '08 and the best I can get out of a 390 gr. arrow with a biscuit at 29" is 252...this is after a great deal of tweaking.

RLW
03-19-2010, 06:18 AM
Sluggo,

I hate to dissapoint...but I have an '08 and the best I can get out of a 390 gr. arrow with a biscuit at 29" is 252...this is after a great deal of tweaking.
I noticed you mentioned a Warthog not shooting very fast either. What draw weight are you shooting these bows? .......or maybe should ask, what chronograph, used under what kind of lighting?

Between the 1" shorter draw length and 40gr over IBO arrow weight, there's typically only about 20 fps drop from IBO

sluggo
03-19-2010, 07:13 AM
The bow came in the mail yesterday so the weight of a 2009 Cheetah with CSS & STS and nothing else on it is 3lbs 15oz. The STS is only 1.5oz of that. I don't know how they come up with 3.4 lbs. Maybe if you took off the cable guard, string, cable, cam, idler wheel and stripped off the camo paint. Also the max draw weight is 64lbs and it is supposed to be a 55-70lb bow. Not sure what to do about that.

treadwayc
03-19-2010, 08:16 AM
The bow came in the mail yesterday so the weight of a 2009 Cheetah with CSS & STS and nothing else on it is 3lbs 15oz. The STS is only 1.5oz of that. I don't know how they come up with 3.4 lbs. Maybe if you took off the cable guard, string, cable, cam, idler wheel and stripped off the camo paint. Also the max draw weight is 64lbs and it is supposed to be a 55-70lb bow. Not sure what to do about that.

Same thing happened to me and my 09 bengal as far as draw weight goes. Add twitsts to the cable to get it to peak at 70 lbs. Also, check all your specs such as A2A and BH.

sluggo
03-19-2010, 08:23 AM
Thanks for the suggestion on checking A2A & brace height. I was going to try adding a few twists to the cable when I got home tonight but hadn't thought about checking those bow specs.

DonsHarley
03-20-2010, 09:23 PM
Having the correct draw length will also stop wrist slap.

sluggo
03-20-2010, 09:49 PM
I messed up and added twists to the string. That didn't work. Then I was told the errors of my ways and untwisted the string and twisted the cable and got it up to 70lbs. FYI, velocity at 62lbs with 384 gr arrows is 269fps with 28" draw with cat wiskers, d-loop, peep and whisker bisket. All this trial and error stuff is kinda fun. I added Diamond Vibrablocks and it took the funky noises out of the bow.