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Servcman
06-09-2010, 03:59 AM
I recently purchased a Trophy Buck Hunter ( Saber ) from Dick's sporting goods. I took it to a reputable archery shop to ensure the setup is correct and remove the peep. I am using the sight and rest that came with the bow and added a limb-saver stabilizer. I shoot with a Winn's Free flight relief style release. When they put it on the scale the breakover point was in excess of 75lbs (thats where they stopped, it still hadn't broke over ) I had shot 3 arrows at Dicks before purchasing it. I had then\m reduce the draw weight to 65 lbs and it's set at 30 1/2" draw length. I am shooting tight consistent groups at 10 - 30 yards.

The problem is that the bowsight is all the way down on the arm and my 20 yard pin is completely at the bottom of the sight.

I took it to not only the original bow shop but 3 others also. No one sees any problems with my shooting form, they all have tried to raise the rest and reset the nock point, but cannot get the bow to shoot where the sight can be raised higher.

I did not have this problem on previous bows I had owned.

Any help in getting my bowsight to a btter height is appreciated

Dave308
06-09-2010, 05:05 AM
You need to move your peep down. This will also effect your anchor point so it will take a little getting used to.

Spiker
06-09-2010, 08:57 AM
He is shooting without a peep.

tommyhydro
06-09-2010, 10:10 AM
put a peep in and make sure you anchor with your index finger knuckle at the back corner of your jaw below your ear

Dave308
06-09-2010, 10:43 AM
Oh I see. Still gonna have to move to a different anchor point.

Servcman
06-09-2010, 02:19 PM
i anchor my release at the corner of my mouth. I never could get used to using a peep, I tried one on my Oneida Aeroforce that I had previous to this and it was more of a mental hinderance to me

bfisher
06-09-2010, 04:03 PM
Your problem is easy to comprehend. Whether you are willing to make the necessary correction is another issue.

Nobody, and I mean nobody ever shoots with a release at the corner of their mouth. Your anchor is way too high. You say you don't shoot with a peep; not a problem, but at least try a kisser button about 1 1/2" above the nocking point on your string and place this where you are placing your release---at the corner of your mouth. This will lower your anchor while still giving you some reference for anchoring. Then be prepared to raise your pin and/or sight a good long ways.

This is just my suggestion and I know it will work. I can't fathom why one of the shops you catered to did not tell you about it. Raising the rest and nocking point does not do one thing to help you if you continue to anchor the same way because you are not changing the angle at which the arrow is launched.

Servcman
06-09-2010, 04:17 PM
I'll give the kisser a try. They probaly never said anything as they know I shot the Oneieda's the same way the past 20 years or so. Given that the new bows are over a foot shorter then the Oneida this makes sense

Destroyer
06-09-2010, 08:58 PM
The problem is that the bowsight is all the way down on the arm and my 20 yard pin is completely at the bottom of the sight.

What sight is it? My Copper John DN3 is made to have a 'extreme' positions and my sight is lower than most would recommend. As long as you get no clearance problems between the arrow and the bottom of the sight and can get the ranges you want, it really doesn't matter. Consistency DOES!


You need to move your peep down. This will also effect your anchor point so it will take a little getting used to.

Sorry to say this but that is wrong. You would need to raise the peep. With the peep higher, you will have bring the peep down to your eye, lowering the anchor point. Lowering the peep would make you raise the anchor point to get it to align with your eye correctly.



I am shooting tight consistent groups at 10 - 30 yards.

If it aint broke............. :D

Servcman
06-10-2010, 03:21 AM
The sight is an Impact Archery sight that came with the bow package.

Thanks for all the help everyone, I am going to try the kisser button and change shooting form to fit the bow.

The bows I shot the previous years were 44" tip to tip, 32" draw with a 5" overdraw shelf shelf set at 70 lbs" w/ 80% letoff

the Winns free Flight releasee is a short bar that keeps the hand right at the string apex.

Never too old to learn new shooting form

Destroyer
06-10-2010, 08:27 PM
and change shooting form to fit the bow

Stupid imho but if it works out........;)

Some pics of my sight and part of the instructions for it too. The red (but crappy) circles show the other mount positions for the CJ DN3 sight. Funny they would make these sights with 'extreme' settings if it is incorrect anchor point. Maybe they designed it just for me :D

Servcman
06-11-2010, 02:32 AM
I think the bow world in general went speed crazy with shorter bows and more extreme cams and didn't think about people who are 6'7" with a long reach

bfisher
06-11-2010, 11:28 AM
I didn't respond to your email because I didn't have much of an answer. I was going to ask just how tall you are because of the draw length you have. Now I know. And I also know why you don't use a peep.

My best suggestion to you is, at least looking into the future, get bows with longer A2A. Like maybe a new ShadowCat with Cat 2.0 cams.

You need to tlak with Simon (Montalaar). He's got ape arms like you.

Then again, maybe the ShadowCat ain't the best choice. He's broken at least two sets of limbs on his. It just proves that you long reach guys put a lot of stress on bows. You get speed, but at what cost?

Barry

gibson 787
06-11-2010, 01:33 PM
I think the bow world in general went speed crazy with shorter bows and more extreme cams and didn't think about people who are 6'7" with a long reach

The penny just dropped. I think Barry has the right answer, a bow with much longer ATA.

Good luck.

alex
06-11-2010, 02:01 PM
I think the bow world in general went speed crazy with shorter bows and more extreme cams and didn't think about people who are 6'7" with a long reach

The penny just dropped. I think Barry has the right answer, a bow with much longer ATA.

Good luck.

Now it would be nice to tell which is this bow :rolleyes: - i don't know any of the major bow companies to make a really long ATA compound bow that can easily fit a 202cm tall man. The best Martin can offer is the Scepter, but it isn't exactly "the common man's" bow :D

Servcman
06-11-2010, 08:59 PM
I know of one company that makes it's bow's with a 44" tip -tip but I can't budget $1200 for an outfit. I was sorta disgruntled that after a 4 year hiatus from bowhunting, that no manufactures I could find offered an overdraw shelf

alex
06-12-2010, 03:04 AM
I know of one company that makes it's bow's with a 44" tip -tip but I can't budget $1200 for an outfit. I was sorta disgruntled that after a 4 year hiatus from bowhunting, that no manufactures I could find offered an overdraw shelf

Oneida, right? I like the look of their bows, but have heard some complains about their noise. However they are not available here and are far beyond my price range. The same with Monster bows. Noone can beat the price/quality of Martin. If you can't buy a Scepter, you can search for an old P3 or may be a Slayer (it's shorter). And of course if you follow Bfisher's advice i'm sure you'll be ok with your present bow :) Good luck!

Servcman
06-12-2010, 03:40 AM
I shot Oneida's for 15 years and the budget kept me from getting another one. The original Oneida's were noisy but they refined them and they are just as quiet as any other bow now just the mid to upper line bows run from $900 - $1400 for the bare bow.

I did get a chance this morning to throw a couple of bolts I moved my anchor point so my hand rested under my chin. Worked out great. arrows were 1" apart at 20 yards and 2 1/2 ft higher then my orignal anchor point.

Thanks to all for all the advice and help, My Saber will work out great now !!

alex
06-12-2010, 03:46 AM
That's good news. Have fun with your bow and stay in touch :)

Montalaar
06-12-2010, 04:09 AM
You need to tlak with Simon (Montalaar). He's got ape arms like you.

Then again, maybe the ShadowCat ain't the best choice. He's broken at least two sets of limbs on his. It just proves that you long reach guys put a lot of stress on bows. You get speed, but at what cost?

Barry

In my eyes the problem is that in the pursue of higher speeds, lower bow weights and less of anything else most of the companies go to the limits of the materials. Long draws are adding additional stress to the whole system which can cause problems.

With my new set of 3M limbs (had 1H before) and new strings and cables i hope to get everything set and working. For some years. Over the last months the string and cable lengths changed by 2" in length, adding 1.5" ATA and improved the overall cam rotation. I will see how it will work out this time. If the limbs will break again i will get Barnsdale limbs form my pro shop for free. If they will break, too, i will get a Carbon Matrix.

bfisher
06-12-2010, 04:58 AM
I shot Oneida's for 15 years and the budget kept me from getting another one. The original Oneida's were noisy but they refined them and they are just as quiet as any other bow now just the mid to upper line bows run from $900 - $1400 for the bare bow.

I did get a chance this morning to throw a couple of bolts I moved my anchor point so my hand rested under my chin. Worked out great. arrows were 1" apart at 20 yards and 2 1/2 ft higher then my orignal anchor point.

Thanks to all for all the advice and help, My Saber will work out great now !!

I sure hope you can adapt to this new anchor. YOu might even find you like it better and it's surely a cheaper alternative than that longer A2A bow I mentioned.

Seriously though, there has been mention of the "need for speed" and pushing the limits of what materials and manufacturer processes are presently being used. The one thing guys with long draw can be assured of is that speed will be there. There's just no need to push the limits. In fact, I think I'd be a bit more on the conservative side just for safety and reliability sake.

Getting back to the longer bow idea, save your money. When you get ready for new bow then start visiting the various websites to see what is offered. Seriously, you shooting a 32" draw length with a 38" bow is like me shooting a 32" bow with my 26" draw length. Just FYI, when it comes to pure bow stability I still like a longer bow, like at least 36". Stability is also determined by riser geometry, too, not just length, but length helps.

Servcman
06-12-2010, 05:17 AM
If anyone knows if there are any overdraws compatible with the Saber I would appreciate it.

This New bow is almost like starting over again. With my old bows i was drawing 32" @ 70lbs/ 80% letoff. The bolts were 27" Easton xx75 2317 with NAP Razorbak 5 148 gr broadheads. Most of my hunting is dense hardwoods so I never worried about speed. To me all the new speed hype is just that if I mess up the release I just miss quicker

bfisher
06-12-2010, 12:12 PM
I'm going to make a suggestion and you can take it or not, but I would not even think about putting an overdraw on a bow these days unless for some reason you just can't get arrows long anough to fit the bow.

There are, or were too many adverse effects when using an overdraw. For one, it mounts the rest back behind the bow so far that any movement of the bow is exaggerated in the rest because it's back behind the pivot point of the bow so far.

Another is that the main reason for an overdraw is to be able to shoot a shorter and therefore lighter spined arrow to gain speed. Of course this was popular before the advent of lighter carbon arrows.

Being as you aren't worried about speed I would mount the rest on the bow and shoot longer arrows as dictated by your draw length. However, if you're interested in reaching a happy medium between speed and penetration you can change to some of the carbon arrows made today. At your length you should have little worries about noise or excess vibration and may, depending on your shooting ability, gain better accuracy with the longer arrow. Just like bullets, a longer bullet is more accurate because of better ballistic coeficient.

If you think you must have an overdraw then there are many that should fit. Personally I gave them up about 15 years ago. They were a PITA to keep locked down and many times the cables would whack the back of the rest creating problems there with cable wear and noise. Thank goodness for carbon arrows.

If looking toward carbon arrows take into account that there are light ones and heavy ones and many in between to be found that fit your needed spine.

Servcman
06-12-2010, 07:56 PM
I was shooting the overdraws for the fact that with 148gn broadheads I was almost to the point of lobbing the arrows even at 70 # draw weight, so I went to the shorter shafts for less weight and flex in the shaft.

Your advice was good on the new anchor point, so I have no reason not to take it on this matter also.

Whats your take on the easton full metal jacket shafts? I got a feeling they would be negligible realworld advantage over a straight carbon shaft for the money.

bfisher
06-13-2010, 11:46 AM
I was shooting the overdraws for the fact that with 148gn broadheads I was almost to the point of lobbing the arrows even at 70 # draw weight, so I went to the shorter shafts for less weight and flex in the shaft.

Your advice was good on the new anchor point, so I have no reason not to take it on this matter also.

Whats your take on the easton full metal jacket shafts? I got a feeling they would be negligible realworld advantage over a straight carbon shaft for the money.

I don't have any experience with the FMJ shafts. Unlike you I am a speed freak. Almost all my shooting is for 3D where speed comes in handy at my short 26.5" draw so I have to muster all I can. I have to push pretty hard to get 280 fps. For this the FMJ is just way too heavy. If Easton made a lighter one I'd sure use it just because aluminum pulls from foam a heap easier than carbon.

And being that for the most part there is very little change from my 3D setup to a hunting one I don't bother with changing to a heavier arrow. Afterall, I'm only hunting deer and for those close shots I don't get all hepped up over kinetic energy. Most times I have setups that produce about 40 ft/lbs which I find to be enough.

Servcman
06-13-2010, 05:58 PM
I can understand the speed issue for 3D shooting. I am finding that the carbon pull harder from the bag target also. This got me to thinking.....would the carbon also decrease the penetration ability of a deer compared to aluminum ?? And would they also catch on naturals obstacles such as fine grass that an aluminum may slide through.

bfisher
06-13-2010, 08:08 PM
I'm just guessing here, but I'll bet the reason your carbons pull hard from bag targets has nothing to do with the shaft material, but with the diameter of the points. Most common carbon shafts measure about .295" in diameter, or about 19/64".

Most people shoot either 9/32" or 5/16" points. The problem with the 5/16" is that it is just slightly larger than the shaft. Therefore they hang up in the bag material when being pulled. (Hint...use 9/32 field points).

Unfortunately, the companies that make field points have not seen fit to change the diameter of their tips to conform to carbons even though carbon arrows have been around for nearly 20 years.

So this is what I am assuming is your problem with extraction from bags or foam targets. Answering your question further I have been shooting carbons since their inception and can say you need not have any reservations about the penetration of carbon in animals or problems with passing through little things like leaves or a bit of grass. They are just an arrow and will do their job just like aluminum. In fact, because any arrow entering an animal gets lubrication from body fluids, along with their smaller diameter than aluminum, carbons tend to penetrate better, assuming the weight of the two shafts is the same or nearly so.

Believe me, I shot aluminum arrows for 20+ years before completely switching to carbon so can make an honest comparison. You had asked about the Easton FMJ. For your needs I would probably recommend them. Here you have the best of both the aluminum and carbon worlds.