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sawdust2
06-13-2010, 10:14 PM
I would like some thoughts on using the CAT 1.5 cams on a Razor X. The current bow is 60 # @ 30" with shoot through Nitrous cams. I'm hoping to smooth this animal out a bit as currently it just isn't much fun to shoot.

Thanks

sawdust2

Montalaar
06-13-2010, 10:26 PM
More ore less impossible.

Why?
Because you need the new reinforced limbs. As the Razor-X has the old style limb pocket you will need the squared limbs with reinforced tips. Those were only produced for one year. As we see with the Scepter the CAT-Cam can be used with the old limb angle but i cannot advice that as it is hard to time and use.

Furthermore the CAT-Cam might make your bow even harder to shoot. The CAT-Cam has a much more harsher draw than the NOS-Cams. Maybe you should think about tuning your current setup instead? How can a NOS-Cam be a Monster?

sawdust2
06-13-2010, 10:42 PM
The bow actually belongs to my son who is an experienced shooter. The initial shooting we did with the bow just turned us off to the point that we haven't worked with it much, several other bows to tinker with. However the bow is just to pretty to disregard and our first thought was to change the cams. So, thanks to your reply I think we will make it a tuning and taming project without a cam change. If you have any tricks along this line we would be willing to try them.

Thanks

sawdust2

Montalaar
06-13-2010, 10:46 PM
I owned 2 of them myself but i never had problems with them.
What Camsize is installed?

bfisher
06-14-2010, 10:53 AM
I shot the Nitrous X cams for a couple years and thought they were fairly smooth. They don't have that abrupt letoff like the Cat cams or many other 80% cams.

My suggestion would be that if it's tough at 60# then drop it back to 55# or so and shoot a comparably lighter arrow. The Nitrous is still one of the best cams Martin ever developed, IMO. You just have to get used to it.

Your only other cost effective change would be to go with the Accu-track cam and make it a single cam bow, but this isn't cheap either and I have no idea what length string/cable you'd need.

sawdust2
06-14-2010, 06:21 PM
I don't have the bow right here but believe the cams are the M79E-A cam as 30" is the max draw length. Our main objection to the bow is the hand shock. We are use to bows that don't have much going on after the shot, 06 Diamond Liberty, 06 Bowtech Constitution, 09 Bowtech Brigadier, 08 PSE Moneymaker and a 09 Martin Scepter 4. Compared to these bows the Razor X is violent.

Again, its a beautiful bow and we just want to get it under control.

Thanks

sawdust2

Montalaar
06-14-2010, 10:14 PM
I am sure that you can work that out.

From my own experience i can say that the Razor-X with a Nitrous-Cam has not more handshock than a Hoyt or Mathews or any PSE. It is all about tuning and timing.

bfisher
06-15-2010, 04:02 AM
I agree with Simon. I do know that cam sync can be very critical with any dual cam bow, especially so with speed cams. Make sure you get the cams hitting the flat part of the module at exactly the same time. Depending on how tight your cables are twisted as little as 1/2 twist can make a world of difference. Don't give up on it. Just work with it a bit.

I'm also assuming that the bow has Elite limbs on it based on your explanation of "A" cams and a 30" draw. In this case it's going to have a more conventional limb angle instead of parallel limbs. That being said the bow is not going to be as shock free as these newer bows and will tend to jump forward some at the shot, quite typical for this type of bow. This is where a good stabilizer and some added mass weight enter the picture to tame things down.

scepterman30x
06-15-2010, 06:06 AM
I would like some thoughts on using the CAT 1.5 cams on a Razor X. The current bow is 60 # @ 30" with shoot through Nitrous cams. I'm hoping to smooth this animal out a bit as currently it just isn't much fun to shoot.

Thanks

sawdust2

Its doable and it would work out great. I have the S4 with the 1.5 cats and it is absolutly a pleasure to shoot...more so than the ShadowCat IMO. Just so you know it comes standard without the reinforced limbs and mine for some reason has no cam lean. Not to say reinforced limbs wouldn't give it that extra strength at the tips...but not absolutly necisary. All you need to do is make your strings longer by the difference in length between the S4 riser and the Razor X riser since i believe limb pocket angle should be the same.

alex
06-15-2010, 06:22 AM
The thought that Scepterman is always there watchfull in the shadows, reading and thinking, waiting to be summoned is a little frightening. I must think twice before write something dumb here. :D

scepterman30x
06-15-2010, 07:34 AM
The thought that Scepterman is always there watchfull in the shadows, reading and thinking, waiting to be summoned is a little frightening. I must think twice before write something dumb here. :D

Ya'll do such a great job explaining things it would be redundant for me to say anything. But yes I am always here lurking in the shadows.:D

alex
06-15-2010, 08:00 AM
Ya'll do such a great job explaining things it would be redundant for me to say anything. But yes I am always here lurking in the shadows.:D

:D Glad you are. Barry and Simon do a really great job, but the more the better. And we miss some of the other senior members like flytier, elk4me, sandsquid, etc.

Montalaar
06-15-2010, 08:50 AM
Alec is just inactive because of all the other things he has to do... :)

wisecane
06-15-2010, 09:12 AM
Alex you should try shooting with him watching and critiqueing (sp?) your every move and statement! When Bfisher comes to visit, it makes it twice as hard to concentrate.

scepterman30x
06-15-2010, 09:46 AM
:D Glad you are. Barry and Simon do a really great job, but the more the better. And we miss some of the other senior members like flytier, elk4me, sandsquid, etc.

BTW now that you mentioned it...where are these folks?

alex
06-15-2010, 12:24 PM
Alex you should try shooting with him watching and critiqueing (sp?) your every move and statement! When Bfisher comes to visit, it makes it twice as hard to concentrate.

:) I wish i could, but it's a long way from the Balkans to Florida... You're lucky you have a great coach, i shoot alone and nobody corrects my mistakes. By the way have you tried to concentrate in the company of an angry cat? Each time she sees me with a bow she comes and starts mewing like insane. Can't understand what causes this: the sound of the string, the vibration of the limbs or the flight of the arrow :D

alex
06-15-2010, 12:29 PM
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BTW now that you mentioned it...where are these folks?

As Simon said Flytier/Alec is too busy (he has mentioned working and going to college), but don't know anything about the other guys. May be they prefer AT or have no time.Hope they are ok!

scepterman30x
06-15-2010, 12:41 PM
:) I wish i could, but it's a long way from the Balkans to Florida... You're lucky you have a great coach, i shoot alone and nobody corrects my mistakes. By the way have you tried to concentrate in the company of an angry cat? Each time she sees me with a bow she comes and starts mewing like insane. Can't understand what causes this: the sound of the string, the vibration of the limbs or the flight of the arrow :D

I know what you mean...I used to shoot some of my best scores with my two boys at home and at tournaments. Imagine two little rugrats saying Dad,Dad,Dad etc. nonstop while you are focusing on shooting. Talk about conditioning yourself mentally. I actually miss it now, ones 17 yrs. old and the other 12. They have their own lives now and only come to dad when they want something.

bfisher
06-15-2010, 01:01 PM
I just love how some of these threads turn into good ole fashioned BS sessions. Nice to have a good group of guys that get along so well---from all parts of the world, too. Being the only active moderator around here, you guys make my job easy. Lets me feel like just "one of the boys".

So what happened to the other guys? I can tell you that Elk4Me moved on to another bow company. A couple years ago he lost his job and was having some financial difficulties for a while, which is understandable. A man has to feed his family. I've seen his user name on AT a couple times. His name is Matt, if I recall correctly.

Alec is probably busy with school work. At least I hope so. It would be nice to see some posts by him once in a while just to make sure he's still kicking.

Can't say what happened with Sandsquid (John). I think he's still on AT. He has a wife and two daughters that shoot competitively so I imagine that keeps him hopping. If he's like me he's on a half dozen different forums so probably cut back on this one. Also I know he was having physical problems, neck I believe, and was hampered pretty well for a while.

alex
06-15-2010, 02:33 PM
Yeah, you're right about the BS sessions, Barry. :) My apologies to Sawdust2, hope he's not angry at us.

bfisher
06-15-2010, 06:18 PM
Alex you should try shooting with him watching and critiqueing (sp?) your every move and statement! When Bfisher comes to visit, it makes it twice as hard to concentrate.

That's because I never shut up. Be truthful with the other guys, though. I have only broken your concentration on one occasion. You guys are 1050 miles from my house. A little too far for a wednesday evening 5 spot shoot.

sawdust2
06-15-2010, 10:33 PM
Thanks for the replies and the BS session. I'm new to this forum and Martin and both seem like a good place to be. Hope to contribute a little in the future.

sawdust2

Montalaar
06-15-2010, 11:35 PM
I think i have seen Sandsquid some days or weeks ago. Unfortunately not here but at Archerytalk.

Hey, someone of you 'pros' must come to germany. I know that TXN (Neal) has been in germany for some days. Maybe he is even somewhere here...

Sawdust,

i hope we could help you a bit. You are always welcome.

wisecane
06-16-2010, 06:13 AM
That's because I never shut up. Be truthful with the other guys, though. I have only broken your concentration on one occasion. You guys are 1050 miles from my house. A little too far for a wednesday evening 5 spot shoot.

He is right, I have only had the pleasure of Barry's company once. I wish we could all get together to shoot though. Maybe one of us will hit the powerball and sponsor an all expenses paid meet and greet for the regulars here.

coma
06-17-2010, 09:20 PM
anyone know what cam the martin threshold has??? http://www.martinarchery.com/2010web/threshold.php

Montalaar
06-17-2010, 10:39 PM
No, but it is somewhat similar to the M-Pro-Cam.

alex
06-18-2010, 04:28 AM
No, but it is somewhat similar to the M-Pro-Cam.

:rolleyes: It is as similar to the M-Pro as is similar to the Nitrous or CAT.

Montalaar
06-18-2010, 11:42 AM
Do you know what you are talking about?

The Treshold has a Singlecam. As a Singlecam that is produced by Martin it is similar to the previous Singlecams that have been made by Martin. After comparing the different designs i came to the conclusion that it looks pretty similar to the MPro.

The NOS-Cam is a dual cam.

The CAT-Cam is a Cam.5-type-Cam.


So please. Why do you post such a 'waste'? It is only disturbing and quite no help to anyone.

alex
06-18-2010, 12:21 PM
Sorry, don't be angry Simon. Nitrous or CAT are dual and let's say "hybrid" of course but if you take the lower of the pair they look as similar (or to be exact not similar) to the single cam on the Threshold as the M-Pro. The original M-Pro is far more "round" then the cam on the Threshold and the idler wheel is different. If i must make a guess the cam of the Threshold is either an unused older design or is made by another company.

Montalaar
06-18-2010, 01:11 PM
Have you compared the Treshold-Cam to the predecessor of the MPro? It was a tad faster than the MPro and could also be it.

alex
06-18-2010, 01:36 PM
Do you mean the Dyna cam? It looks closer, but also not exactly... May be a mix of the Dyna and the old Tru-Arc? :D Can't say. The fact that Martin haven't written the name of the Threshold cam in their 2010 catalog makes me think it's not of theirs.

Montalaar
06-18-2010, 02:01 PM
The Tru-Arc+ Cam is the predecessor of the CAT-Cam. It has been discontinued because of some problems with the integrity of the machining.

alex
06-18-2010, 02:14 PM
Yeah, i guessed so. Well, it's not a question we can give the right answer, so i won't write anymore on this thread, because we devided it already to 3 subthreads and the guilt is mainly mine. Barry was absolutely right about the BS sessions :)

Montalaar
06-18-2010, 02:18 PM
And i still ask myself what you mean with BS.

The only abbrevation that comes to my mind is bullshit. But this does not find as i do not think this is bs in this meaning. Maybe you need to learn something about 'flaming' and 'trolling'. :P

bfisher
06-18-2010, 06:32 PM
And i still ask myself what you mean with BS.

The only abbrevation that comes to my mind is bullshit. But this does not find as i do not think this is bs in this meaning. Maybe you need to learn something about 'flaming' and 'trolling'. :P

Simon, BS is just a common term used here in the USA meaning, as you say, bullshit. Bullshit in this context meaning good ole Bull Session. No flaming involved. Some other terms might also apply such as "shop talk" or just common converstaions about whatever pops up.