PDA

View Full Version : String Slack on 2009 Martin MOAB



k9pe
07-11-2010, 05:22 PM
Has anybody run across the problem I just had?

Sent my MOAB in for repair, and it was given a new idler wheel, new Acku-Cam, new string and cable.

After shooting a few times and then installing a peep sight with the small rubber hose in the string and serving it above and below, when the bow is at full draw on the draw board, I have loose strands, almost like a violin bow that has not been tightened up

I'm in the process of sending a letter and four pictures to Martin and see if they can come up with any answers.

Will try to include a pic or two to show..

K9PE

k9pe
07-12-2010, 03:09 AM
Here's a couple of pics.

K9PE

Destroyer
07-12-2010, 03:30 AM
:eek: Any twists in that string at all?

bfisher
07-12-2010, 09:39 AM
Yeah, I notice that, too. That looks like a pretty poorly made string, but adding twists to it should tighten things up a bit and make everything work more like a bundle. The only concern is that the string may not be long enough to add the proper amount of twists to it.

This is a typical situation of why a lot of us recommend good custom strings. They go on a jig just like the factory ones, but then they are prestretched to sveral hundrd pounds to get all the strands to the same length. Then they are twisted with about one complete twist per every
1 1/2" of the string's length and stretched again. Then they are served.

Of course twisting the string also makes it shorter. People who make strings for a living have figured out how much longer to make the strings/cables so that after twisting they come up with the proper measurement for each particular brand and model of bow.

Twisting also makes the string bundle tighter and smaller. This is why when you twist inferior ones the serving gets loose and will start to separate, especially at any sharp turn such as the module. Some guys see this and think their string is stretching, but in most cases it's just the serving slipping. It actually gets compressed and is pushed toward the end loop.

You can contact Martin and see if they'll do anything, but ultimately I'd suggest getting with someone and getting better string/cable to begin with. I sometimes mention H&M strings as they are pretty reasonable. A couple guys on here have gotten H&M strings and are happy with them. You can also get Winner's Choice (I have), but dropping upwards of $100 gets a little rediculous when there are others that make a comparable string set for nearly half that.

Maybe one of these guys will chimb in or you could do a search for H&M strings and see what they have to say.

k9pe
07-12-2010, 11:21 AM
Fellows I hate to tell you this, but it had just came back from the Martin Repair Shop. Shot it about 25/30 times and then started to notice the strands showing loose like that. The string appears to be twisted well on the other side of the idler wheel. This is a 2009 model that when they repaired it, came back with the 2010 idler wheel, and the Acu-Trak cam, so basically it would be the same as the TR-1..All I'm wondering is what caused it. I have since put a new string. and have not installed the peep with the rubber hose on it. Am trying an Anchor sight I had sitting on the shelf, which I had a hard time trying to get used to the last time.
Thanks for the input, as I was wondering is it was something I did wrong putting things back together before shooting it again.

k9pe
07-12-2010, 11:25 AM
In regards to "custom strings" I have already mapped out the string and cable for SSStrings here in Wisconsin, and when I can get the extra$$$$ ready, they will be heading my way..

K9PE

bfisher
07-12-2010, 11:47 AM
OK, post read and understood. In answer, I would say that you did nothing wrong. with possibly not putting enough twists in the part you are showing us (idler to cam). Much as I hate to admit it this is fairly typical of factory strings. I've had it on other top-o-the-line bows from other manufacturers. It all depends on who was building them on that particular day. Some take more pride in their workmanship than others.

I had a 2009 Moab last year and although I didn't care for it vs my 2008 FireCat I still believe the bow is good enough that it deserves better strings. At least you seem to understand that not all strings are created equally.

Good luck.

k9pe
07-12-2010, 02:59 PM
Hi Barry,

All I did was shoot a few times to insure I had the string loop in the right palce and installed the peep because the G-5 .25" peep would not settle down, so figured the easiest way was to use the "old rubber tube and peep" and only served above and below that to keep it from moving about.

I faxed Joel this morning, but then after I had done that I realised I had the sheets in upside down! I have one of the all-in-one printers by HP. Will shoot the pictures to him and an explantion of what has transpired since then.

I ordered a used "hind sight" to get away from the peep for hunting this year.
Can't get used to the Anchor Sight. Old eyes don't want to focus on two things at once.

Take care and drop a note sometime..

K9PE

gibson 787
07-12-2010, 03:41 PM
I sometimes mention H&M strings

I can highly recommend www.hmstrings.com You would be hard pressed to find better value.

The only thing that may be an issue to some, is because he does all the work himself, the turn around time is longer than most.

I have recently bought 3 sets for three different bows, and the strings and cables are faultless and about half what you'd pay elsewhere.

Best of luck

joelc
07-13-2010, 08:17 AM
There is no way for me to determine what the cause of this problem may be from your pictures. In your letter you indicate you have another string that was sent to you. Are you having the same issue with the replacement?

polaris754
07-13-2010, 02:41 PM
dang do u think u have the string split right ?:eek:

bfisher
07-13-2010, 04:48 PM
WOW, look who's here. Welcome to you Joel. Look out guys. I have a feeling K9's problems are about to disappear.

k9pe
07-14-2010, 06:44 AM
Hi Joel,

What I did with the new string, was to put in about 15/16 twists to get it down to about 90" or just a bit less, then under extreme pressure with a boat winch that I use for that purpose , I then served the string in the area it would run through the CCS. Then I put it on and HAVE NOT INSTALLED the peep with the rubber tube. And yes it is showing signs if not being twisted enough between the nock serving and the idler wheel. It appears the twist after the idler wheel is remaining good! Now do I remove just the cam end and twist it there, which will shorten the string, and then lengthen the cable to compensate for the cam adjustment or WHAT?
Thanking you for you taking the time to read this.
I hope I can come up with some answers. Or that you can.
I noticed that when it came back, the change of the idler wheel and the different cam, thank you.

K9PE

Destroyer
07-14-2010, 08:59 PM
Now do I remove just the cam end and twist it there, which will shorten the string

You should take the string off one end and twist the entire string. Put at least 15 twists in the string, I put at least 20 turns in.


then under extreme pressure with a boat winch that I use for that purpose

Not too much pressure right?

k9pe
07-15-2010, 06:36 AM
Destroyer:
If you read the above post, I have already twisted the string up 15-16 times.
At that time is was, if my memory serves me, measured to 89.75", then put under pressure to serve the area where the string travels thru the CCS. I also served the cable at that point and made sure I didn't twist or untwist the cable, as this bow had just come back from the repair shop at Martin.
So there you have it.
I'm shooting with the "new string" on and getting the string to settle in.

Just wondering if I had done something wrong..............

K9PE

Destroyer
07-15-2010, 10:16 PM
Yep read it mate. Not sure why its so popular these days to twist the string then serve it. By putting the twist in after the serving, you can tighten up the serving if you twist the right way. The only time I serve with the twists already in is when I'm doing the center serving on the string and that's only because the string is still on the bow already twisted.

Are ppl here are using the charts to get the measurement for the final twisted string, thinking that it will give them the correctly setup bow. :confused: Might explain a few things.

IMHO, I think the charts give a recommended length string to fit the bow but is not the final length required. Get the chart length and twist it up to whatever is required. Doesn't matter if the string has 15 or 20 or 30 twists, and doesn't matter what the final measurement of the string is, just as long as the specs end up right!

Ok, finished my speech. What I would do is carefully remove the CCS serving and all the twists then put at least 15 twists back in to the entire string, put it back on the bow and see what happens. When you served for the CCS, you might have done something wrong, might have put too much pressure on the string, might have cut a strand or something OR might have been a crap string to begin with.

This is a really weird problem anyway.

k9pe
07-16-2010, 09:34 AM
Hi Destroyer...

I forgot to mention:
The string that was on it when it came back from the factory, and the pictures came from that string. This was after maybe 25/30 shots before noticing the slack in the string...
The string on it now is a spare that Martin sent me while my bow was at the factory. That is the one that I am now shooting, and the one I served under the CCS wheels/pulleys, not the one that the pictures are from. So far so good, but the string shows more twist behind the idler wheel than it does from the idler wheel to the nock serving.
Oh well, so it goes and then your clothes as they say..
Maybe one of these days everything will work out.
At least I hope so, as Deer season opens here on the 18th of September..

K9PE

alex
07-16-2010, 11:08 AM
I'm sorry, i know it's not polite to ask, but how old are you? I've just read that you are a WWII veteran and am really impressed that you bowhunt! My grandparents are 84 and it's hard for them even to get out of home. My respects, sir! :)

k9pe
07-16-2010, 01:52 PM
Hi Alex,

I'm looking forward to my 86th birthday on the 23rd of November this year.
Hopefully I'll get this bow situation straightened out before September 18th, as that's when bow season starts.
For your info, I got my first gobbler with the bow when I was 84, plus got a hen the following fall.
Yes, I do hunt, and from a ground blind now as I'm not really up to climbing trees........HeeHee..But will climb a ladderstand to hunt from.
Thanks for asking. As I have said in the past, "there are no dumb questions"
Answers only come if questions are asked.
Have a fine day, sir.

K9PE ;)

alex
07-16-2010, 02:29 PM
Wish you a nice deer for your birthday! :) Hope your bow will be ok, but i'm afraid you'll have to invest in a new string. I'm not a hunter, but reading your post makes me think it's never late to try it. Stay safe and avoid tree climbing at least till you are 106 ;)

Destroyer
07-16-2010, 06:26 PM
That is the one that I am now shooting, and the one I served under the CCS wheels/pulleys, not the one that the pictures are from. So far so good, but the string shows more twist behind the idler wheel than it does from the idler wheel to the nock serving.

Not using the one from the picture then, ok. As long as the nock side of the string has some twists I wouldn't worry. You could always take a few twists out of the idler wheel side and add a few to the nock side. It seems the single cams don't even themselves out correctly.

k9pe
08-01-2010, 06:33 PM
Destroyer:
Well sir, I removed the string at the cam end and put another 10 turns on the string, and then put the string back on the cam.
So far so good! Have not installed a peep in the string, but am getting acclimated to an Anchor Sight, which allows me to hit my anchor point and see if I'm torquing the bow before lining up my pin on target. Has taken a bit of getting "used to" but seems to be working out.
So far, have not had any loose strands floating between the nock serving and the idler wheel. so maybe I have found my problem with a bit of help from some of the kind people on here.
But I must say, I have no idea, as of right now if my string is at the proper length that the sticker calls for, but I can get almost bullet hole in paper at 5 yards with a "bare shaft" which is what started this whole mess to begin with!
Never had a problem doing that with a bow in the 56 years I've been in archery, but then I guess you learn something new each day of your life!
Take care, and good shooting..

K9PE:)

Destroyer
08-01-2010, 08:11 PM
Good to hear its working out mate. Yeah, don't worry about the string length on the sticker, its just a guide, a starting point. If there is no loose strands and its tuning well then I'd say everything is right.

Never heard of a 'Anchor sight' before today, learned something! :)

Cheers!

gibson 787
08-01-2010, 08:18 PM
Never heard of a 'Anchor sight' before today, learned something!

Man these things are simply the best, particularly when your eyes start to get old. I've got them on all my activer bows. Go to this sight and check em out. www.archeryinnovations.com

k9pe
08-02-2010, 07:12 PM
Hello to Destroyer:

A word of warning.....If you try an Anchor sight, you will designate your peep sight to the bone barrel.....
I couldn't imagine the difference it made for me, who wears glasses with bi-focals....NO MORE peep sights for me for sure.

Go to http://www.archeryinnovations.com and check it out.
Watch the video that explains it!!

Till later, Gator...


K9PE

giltyone
08-05-2010, 12:40 PM
wonder if the string is broken under some serving?

k9pe
08-06-2010, 07:16 AM
Giltyone:

The pictures are from the new string put on at the factory, which has since been taken off and a new one put on. Now the second started the same thing and I added another 10 turns on the string which if I believe brought it to around 25/30 added twists.
Removed the serving of the old new string and put under tension with boat winch, and found no loose strands anywhere. Left under tension for two days.
Have now switched from a peep sight to an Anchor Sight, and it is quite a job acclimating my self to glance at that to make sure I'm not torquing the bow before tripping the trigger!
All the best to you, and yours,

K9PE:)

guntercb
08-06-2010, 11:45 AM
Same thing happened to my string too:

http://www.martinarchery.com/mtechforum/showthread.php?t=7354

Martin is sending me a new one. When I talked with Joel (Martin Archery) he indicated to me that Martin has changed their string making. I am certain that the new string will work without issue, but I have ordered a custom string just encase. I just wish I had received a well made string to begin with.

I am ready to get the new string on and shooting!

Cheers,
Chris

k9pe
08-06-2010, 05:32 PM
guntercb

When you put the new string on make sure you get plenty of twist in as my second string, after 30/35 shots I had to put it in the press and add another 10 or so twists. Had already put 15/16 twist to start..It started to loosen a couple of strands between the nock serving and the idler wheel. Nock serving does not appear to be tight enough to me IMHO...

Take care, hope you get it settled in and shooting before deer season.

K9PE:)

guntercb
08-07-2010, 05:57 PM
K9PE,

I agree on the center serving not being as tight as it should. At least my experience is that two of my center servings slipped and the nock was not staying in place. I will see if the third string works better. I now have it on my bow and have my D loop and peep tied in. I will paper tune later in the week and then start to shot! I have a few more weeks before season, but want/need to build up my muscles.

Does twisting the string help the threads from rising off the string? If so, can you explain how?

Is you replacement string holding up?

Cheers,
Chris

k9pe
08-08-2010, 10:50 AM
guntercb:

So far my latest venture has been going well. As Destroyer said, make sure you have enough twists to keep the string from doing what my first one did when it came back from the factory. I think right now I have had to twist up my second string between 25/30 twists. That is tightening the sting and yes, it will shorten the overall length.
Before I put my second string on I measured it and found it to be over the 90" that the label called for so put in another 15 (?) twist to shorten it up, and then served the area that rubs through the cable guard pulleys, plus I also served the cable in the same area. I had noticed the these areas showed wear on my old string that was on it when I sent it in to the factory. After that I took the old string and put good tension on it and left it under several hundred pounds of pressure for two days, and the removed the nock serving as I found no loose strings, Then reserved the nock serving to to have a spare in case.

Good luck on your hunting, aim quick, shoot straight!!

K9PE:)

guntercb
08-08-2010, 04:40 PM
Good luck on your hunting, aim quick, shoot straight!!

K9PE:)

You too!

Cheers!