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Ehunter
08-01-2010, 09:23 AM
Shooting an '09 Firecat. 68# draw, 28 1/2 DL. Compared groups of 2 different arrows in a 3D buck target that is virtually new.

1. Beman ICS Hunter 340 spine 28 inch. 420.4 gr. total weight Blazer vanes290 fps avg.
2. Victory NanoForce 350 spine 28 inch 363 gr. total weight 2" Quick spin vanes 314.5 fps avg.

Both shot with the same field points, same target, same time of day. I am getting better penetration at 50 yards with the Victory arrow, than I am at 2 with the Beman. At 20 yards with the Beman, I get about 3-4 inches of arrow out the back of the target. With the Victory, I get 9-10. I realise that a heavier arrow is better for hunting than the Victory I'm shooting, but if it's getting this much more penetration, wouldn't it be the arrow to use? Has to have more energy to penetrate better is what I'm thinking. Let me know what you think! Thanks!

Destroyer
08-01-2010, 07:49 PM
if it's getting this much more penetration, wouldn't it be the arrow to use?

No. Critters aren't made of the same material.

I'd use the heavier arrow, slightly more stable and your bow might last a bit longer. ;)

Ehunter
08-03-2010, 02:50 AM
Destroyer, I understand your point about animals being different material, I just kinda figured the resistance of the target would be similar, if not more resistant than a deer itself. At 20 yards, I should get a complete pass through on a deer, yet the target stops the arrow. Just seemed logical to me to use the better penetrating of the two arrows for hunting. I do use the heavier arrows for target shooting though, trying to extend the life of the bow as best I can.

Destroyer
08-03-2010, 04:41 PM
Just seemed logical to me to use the better penetrating of the two arrows for hunting

Your basing this on getting better penetration on the target itself. The material targets are made from help to drag an arrow to a stop. Are animals the same? Targets are nothing like the critters, totally different consistency. Plus no heavy bones, ribs, etc, different resistance at different angles to slow the arrow down so the target isn't a good guide as far as penetration is concerned.

Regardless, both the setups should give clean pass-through's broadside on deer so its not going to make a huge difference.

Personally, I would use the same (heavier) arrow for both anyway, more consistent setup. If you just want to use up the lighter arrows for hunting then I get that. :)

RLW
08-10-2010, 06:06 AM
With kinetic energy on both arrows being very similar, I suspect the Victory might have a smoother finish and maybe smaller diameter, both of which can make a difference on 3D target penetration......and assuming field point?

Out of a well tuned bow, with broadhead and KE on either of these arrows, as Destroyer says, I doubt penetration will ever be an issue or even be noticeable on a good shot on real animals, as both should blow straight on thru any North American big game animal.

"IF" you were to hit a shoulder blade my guess is the heavier arrow might have a slight advantage (all else being equal). It should shoot quieter too and be a little easier on the bow.

Destroyer
08-10-2010, 04:40 PM
the Victory might have a smoother finish and maybe smaller diameter

Good point. :)


"IF" you were to hit a shoulder blade

Shoulder bone will probably stop any arrow to a point. Wouldn't be much of a difference any way.

RLW
08-11-2010, 06:10 AM
Shoulder bone will probably stop any arrow to a point. Wouldn't be much of a difference any way.

True, although I have seen a bear shoulder blade that a guy kept because he busted thru it with his broadhead from a tree stand to kill the bear.
This was quite some time ago, back before carbons and when 230fps was fast. Can't remember all the details but do know he was shooting a mid 80's Martin Firecat

Ehunter
08-11-2010, 01:17 PM
You are right, the Victory has a significantly smaller diameter. It will fit inside a standard carbon arrow like a Beman ICS Hunter. It's outside diameter is .22 I believe. Seems that since the head has a much larger diameter than the arrow, the targets don't grip the shaft as much, or as fast, and that's what's giving me the extra penetration. The Victory gives roughly the same penetration at 50 yards that a Beman ICS Hunter does at 20.

bfisher
08-11-2010, 07:35 PM
You are right, the Victory has a significantly smaller diameter. It will fit inside a standard carbon arrow like a Beman ICS Hunter. It's outside diameter is .22 I believe. Seems that since the head has a much larger diameter than the arrow, the targets don't grip the shaft as much, or as fast, and that's what's giving me the extra penetration. The Victory gives roughly the same penetration at 50 yards that a Beman ICS Hunter does at 20.

Also, the smaller diameter means there is less surface area to be affected by friction while penetrating the target. Flesh that is lubricated by blood and other body fluids is quite another thing altogether.

For all you kinetic energy freaks, there some good reading on Bowsite about penetration. I'm not good at posting links so......click on Features, then "by category", then Practical Bowhunter. Read the article entitled "Penetration--Much ado about nothing".

Destroyer
08-11-2010, 08:54 PM
a bear shoulder blade that a guy kept because he busted thru it with his broadhead

I like this sort of thing. What a great trophy! :) Yep, the shaft of choice for me in the late 80's early 90's was the XX75 2219, lots of momentum.

Will have to checkout that Bowsite info, thanks Barry!

dragonsfire311
08-11-2010, 09:09 PM
I still shoot the xx75 2219 to hunt with. hit like a brick through a plate glass window. no penatration problems with them.

Destroyer
08-11-2010, 09:32 PM
They're strong too, never bent many of them unless I hit a rock square on. :)

bfisher
08-12-2010, 07:03 AM
They're strong too, never bent many of them unless I hit a rock square on. :)

Shot them years ago, or should I say decades ago. That was back when we didn't chrono bows and speed wasn't an issue with peoples' egos. They definitely put the arch in archery, but for average hunting distances there isn't much to worry about anyway.

Destroyer
08-13-2010, 03:15 AM
They definitely put the arch in archery

I like that one Barry. :D

elkslayer4x5
08-13-2010, 05:17 AM
Shot them years ago They definitely put the arch in archery.

Yes, but back then we thought that was normal. Untl the first time I saw a compound. :eek:

polaris754
08-14-2010, 12:46 PM
i always use the arrows that fly true i think if u hit ur target it should do the job :rolleyes: