PDA

View Full Version : 2nd Attempt: Limb Cracks/Failures -Dont Delete



oncechance
08-05-2010, 03:08 AM
NO BASHING, JUST INFORMATION GATHERING!

I know many 09 models have had failures to the limbs and most have to do with the Cat 2 cams. Some stats of the cracked limbs that would be good to know:

1. What percent fall in the 55-70lb category?
2. What percent in the 45-60lb category?
3. Do the stiffer limbs crack/fail more so than the lighter limbs?
4. What cam is affixed to the cracked limb?
5. Failure rate on the new 10' limbs?

I have a Firecat TR1 (single cam) and am curious if there has been any problems reported with this model. Mine is shooting sweet and accurate and no problems so far (knock on wood).

Destroyer
08-05-2010, 04:06 AM
Another for the list:

Standard cables/string or aftermarket and what material type.

And maybe:

What percent fall in the 50-65lb category?

oncechance
08-05-2010, 04:27 AM
MARTIN:

This is not a bash nor am I bad mouthing the company. Martins has great customer service and a great bow, but recently have had some problems with their limbs. Just trying to get some statistical information (for my purposes only). Thanks from a valued Martin customer.

oncechance
08-05-2010, 04:34 AM
I did received this response from Joan at Martins thru AT.

1. What percent fall in the 55-70lb category?
2. What percent in the 45-60lb category?
3. Do the stiffer limbs crack/fail more so than the lighter limbs?
4. What cam is affixed to the cracked limb? Cat Cams
5. Failure rate on the new 10' limbs?

I have a Firecat TR1 (single cam) and am curious if there has been any problems reported with this model. Mine is shooting sweet and accurate and no problems so far (knock on wood).

As for the other information I do not have good accurate numbers. I do believe the issue has been spread across all limb weights.

I believe with the single cam you should be ok.

MartinTech
08-05-2010, 07:33 AM
hope joan answered your questions....

with the new paralell limb angle and high speed cams ...there seems to be a learning curve with the laminated limbs. but martin is on top of it and has a new solid limb in place to take care of these issues.

also martin does not use 10" limbs.

thanks alot shoot straight vince

oncechance
08-05-2010, 07:52 AM
hope joan answered your questions....

with the new paralell limb angle and high speed cams ...there seems to be a learning curve with the laminated limbs. but martin is on top of it and has a new solid limb in place to take care of these issues.

also martin does not use 10" limbs.

thanks alot shoot straight vince

Thanks for your post, Vince.

5. Failure rate on the new 10' limbs? Please let me clarify, 10' was meant for year 2010, not 10".

Montalaar
08-05-2010, 01:36 PM
As a foreigner i wonder what is meant by 'learning curve on laminated limbs'.

gibson 787
08-05-2010, 02:38 PM
As a foreigner i wonder what is meant by 'learning curve on laminated limbs'.

'A learning curve' means basically the more one does something the better one gets at it.

Destroyer
08-05-2010, 07:06 PM
And there is cost attached to it. ;)


a new solid limb in place to take care of these issues.

Any more info Vince?

Montalaar
08-05-2010, 11:35 PM
Well, as i work with learning curves on individuals as mice, finks and bees i knew that. But my question was:

What has the learning curve to do with limbs?
Did they learn something about limbs and improve them? Or did the limbs have a learning curve (quite strange idea but i know that traditional bowmaker have those problems, called string follow)... Thanks anyway.. :)

Destroyer
08-06-2010, 05:20 AM
Difficult to master the laminated limb, not ready yet. That's why the solids.

NeilM
08-07-2010, 12:04 AM
I have a Martin Lynx made in the 1980's which has laminated limbs, you would have thought they'd have got the hang of it by now :D

Seriously though, it is a worry that a company as well established as Martin can be on 'a learning curve' with products already released for sale, surely that's what R&D are all about.

Montalaar
08-07-2010, 12:37 AM
Seriously though, it is a worry that a company as well established as Martin can be on 'a learning curve' with products already released for sale, surely that's what R&D are all about.

Well, you have that with all companies in most business.
Think of all those software you can buy and the hundreds of little bug fixes that are released shortly after. It is common now to release a v1.2 of a software just two weeks later.
Or think of all those call backs with cars. Hundreds per year!

I still believe that R&D means 'Research and Destruction'. :)

NeilM
08-07-2010, 01:23 AM
I agree Montalaar, but the safety implications of having your laptop freeze up when trying to print a document and having the limb split on your bow at full draw are slightly different. One is a nuisance and inconvenience, the other potentially life threatening.

Montalaar
08-07-2010, 05:01 AM
I know.

Because of this i mentioned the second example. Just think about failing brakes. There have been numerous recalls by german companies. And as you may know the people here are proud of their first-class precision products. :)

NeilM
08-07-2010, 06:51 AM
I don't know anything about German car recalls I'm afraid, as I drive a FRENCH car :D

Montalaar
08-07-2010, 07:23 AM
Oh, i am sorry for you.
French cars are the ones with the highest recall rate. :)
(We own a CitroŽn which is barely 2 years old and needs to be replaced as it is dripping oil everywhere..)

NeilM
08-07-2010, 11:10 PM
I think cars in the UK have an easier life :eek:

Although, I'd prefer to have an oil leak than my brakes fail.

Montalaar
08-07-2010, 11:57 PM
Yepp. I agree.
Anyway: Iam really curious what the ads for the solid limbs will tell us next year. :)

Destroyer
08-08-2010, 12:12 AM
Iam really curious what the ads for the solid limbs will tell us next year. :)

Answer:


The 2011 limbs from martin are a solid glass limb widely used in the industry with most paralell limb designs. These limbs should provide the archer with years of shooting and hunting.

I would like to know too. ;)

Montalaar
08-08-2010, 12:58 AM
That does not sound like:

"We make something awesome and new and this is why we switch to it."

No pun intended. :)
Back to cars. Which one do you drive?

NeilM
08-08-2010, 06:01 AM
I've got a Peugeot 307 SW Estate. It was originally mine, but now belongs to the company I work for.

My other car is a Mitsubishi Shogun SWB 2.8 turbo diesel, which is used for all round horse duties (mobile tack room, and trailer towing).

Montalaar
08-08-2010, 06:16 AM
Oh, you are working with horses? Horses and Archery. Interesting combination i'd say. =)


I have no experience with Peugeot. But as Peugeot and CitroŽn are the same company..

NeilM
08-08-2010, 07:27 AM
Oh, you are working with horses? Horses and Archery. Interesting combination i'd say. =)


I have no experience with Peugeot. But as Peugeot and CitroŽn are the same company..

I think it is only the smaller Peugeot / Citroen's that are the same in the UK, but I don't suppose that makes any difference to an engine leaking oil:D

Sorry, we are about to go seriously off track:

In my case archery came first (1986) and horsemanship is what I have been working on for the last couple of years. Yes, I plan to combine the two, which is how the whole thing started, but to be a horsearcher you first need to be both a competent archer and an expert horseman:confused:

I had plans to train my horse to the bow this summer, but so far this year it's been so hot over here, that hour upon hour of solid training is out of the question. Still, there always the autumn and next year, no rush.

As for bows, I use Hungarian / Scythian bows with aluminium arrows. Wooden arrows are more traditional, but not nearly robust enough for training, as I am only using 30 lb bows. I do have an 80lb Hungarian bow, but it's too much poundage for fast repeat shots, much better for long volley type shots. Mine will easily reach 200 yards :eek:

There is quite a movement of horse archers in Europe. It was reinvented about 15 years ago in Hungary, but has a continuous history in other parts, including Germany, but it is a bit too alternative for me; think hippies meet ancient warrior class, all sort of traditional dress, traditional tents and no hot running water :( Very skilful though and quite something to watch.

Linky: http://www.steppenreiter.de/

Montalaar
08-08-2010, 07:56 AM
To be off track is really no problem here.
You know that Barry always says that we are a family. =)

It is not the engine itself that is dripping oil. Our Ford has the exact same engine and is free of all problems. I'd say that there is a leak anywhere else. Well.. We sell the car soon.
Epugeot and CitroŽn are the same company. The are owned by PSA, Peugeot Sociťtť Anonyme. :)

Your story sounds fantastic. Have you ever tried Beman Traditional? :)

I know those germans. There have been numerous videos about the 'german horsebow championship' online last year. It is getting mroe and mroe popular. In the same way as 3D-Shoots and traditional archery itself. Compound bows may not be rare but most people jump on the 'traditional train'.

NeilM
08-08-2010, 08:14 AM
I didn't know about PSA, although it is clear looking at the cars that they are the same company.

I haven't used Beaman's, as alloy is cheap and easy to find with a metal detector if it gets lost or damaged. Also alloy will crush not shatter when it is trodden on by a horse, which is something that WILL happen if, like me, you practice on the same land that the horses are kept on.

Horse archery is tiny in the UK. There are probably less then 100 people participating, in fact there are probably less than 50. I don't really see it growing much as it does require a lot of time and training and most people in the Uk don't see the point. Archers who ride are very rare and horse people who are archers are even more rare, I only know of two other people who do both.

There is a group local to me, but I have not yet made the time to go and meet them. Once I have my horse in training I'll probably get in touch, especially as one guy is trained (in Japan) in Yabusame, and that is something I would also like to study.

Oh to win the Euro-Millions, then I would have the money and the time to do it all :D

Montalaar
08-08-2010, 08:26 AM
Oh to win the Euro-Millions, then I would have the money and the time to do it all :D

Who does not want to be a millionaire.. =)

If someone of the 'Martin Tech family' will hit the jackpot i recommend him/her to invite all of us to have some nice days. America, Britain, Bulgaria, Germany.. Sounds like a quite cool group. :)