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hunt123
08-11-2010, 05:05 PM
My '10 Bengal suddenly started shooting 12" low at 50 yds. Plus I started getting flyers 8" to the right of that. I checked the ATA and it's increased by 1/2" from 32 1/4" to 32 3/4".

Everything else (sight, rest, d-loop, peep) is tight. There's a wear place on my cable where the cam has worn the serving. I'm guessing the cable is starting to break under the serving. The bow is on my bench now with the limbs backed way down and I took the cable off.

I'd pull the serving off to check except that I don't know how to re-serve the end loop. Do you think I'm right about the cable starting to go or maybe it's something else?

2nd question: What's the factory spec length for the cable? I think the string is 90" but I can't find data on the cable.

bfisher
08-11-2010, 07:11 PM
According to the Spec charts on Martin's website your cable should be
33 3/4".

Look at it this way. If your cable is shot---broken strands or whatever it isn't going to hurt anything to strip the end serving off for a look-see. If it doesn't have any broken strands then you could always twist it for proper length and have it reserved at a decent archery shop.

I know the factory strings for the Martin single cam bows aren't the greatest, but they are about as good as most other factory strings on mid-range bows.

In the event that you need to replace the string and cable I'd suggest getting a set from just about any of the better string makers. There's a bunch of them in the classifieds on AT. Ask around here, too. I recommended H&M to a couple guys and they seem to be well satisfied with them--and at a reasonable price, I might add.In fact, I'm thinking of a set just to change the color scheme on my Alien Z.

Destroyer
08-11-2010, 09:31 PM
the ATA and it's increased by 1/2" from 32 1/4" to 32 3/4".

Has the draw length increased? If it has reduced the I'd say the cable isn't good. Replace it.

hunt123
08-12-2010, 03:02 AM
According to the Spec charts on Martin's website your cable should be
33 3/4".

Look at it this way. If your cable is shot---broken strands or whatever it isn't going to hurt anything to strip the end serving off for a look-see. If it doesn't have any broken strands then you could always twist it for proper length and have it reserved at a decent archery shop.

I know the factory strings for the Martin single cam bows aren't the greatest, but they are about as good as most other factory strings on mid-range bows.

In the event that you need to replace the string and cable I'd suggest getting a set from just about any of the better string makers. There's a bunch of them in the classifieds on AT. Ask around here, too. I recommended H&M to a couple guys and they seem to be well satisfied with them--and at a reasonable price, I might add.In fact, I'm thinking of a set just to change the color scheme on my Alien Z.

Where do I find that data on Martin's site? I remembered that I have a new set that came with one of the number of times my limbs got replaced and I just now measured the new cable at 34".

I don't want to put that set on because the peep rotation is going to drive me nuts and I'll just have to redo everything and re-tune the bow when I put a good set on. It's just being saved for an extreme emergency.

I don't see any cracking, but is it possible the limbs are getting ready to go...again? Would that change the ATA by 1/2"?

I checked string makers on AT and one of them with good reviews was Mike's Strings. At $40 with free shipping it's pretty tempting. I think H&M, 60x and the others are higher.

Spiker
08-12-2010, 04:47 AM
http://www.martinarchery.com/2010web/tech2010.php

hunt123
08-12-2010, 05:22 AM
Thank you. I guess I'm supposed to twist 1/4" out of the 34" one. So would that be 33 3/4" loose? Or do I have to twist it on a tensioning jig to get the measurement down to 33 3/4?

Destroyer
08-12-2010, 05:42 AM
Would that change the ATA by 1/2"

If its sudden, cut or broken strands. :confused:

hunt123
08-12-2010, 06:07 AM
If its sudden, cut or broken strands. :confused:
That's kind of what I was thinking. Your question earlier - I don't know about the draw length. It feels OK but I don't have a draw board to check it.

bfisher
08-12-2010, 06:53 AM
If that Mike is Mike Carter (aka--Crackers) then the price is very very good. He's noted as one of the Super tuners around the country. Very well respected and in great demand.

hunt123
08-12-2010, 10:22 AM
If that Mike is Mike Carter (aka--Crackers) then the price is very very good. He's noted as one of the Super tuners around the country. Very well respected and in great demand.

I don't know, here's the website. Maybe you can tell from this.
http://www.mikes-archery.com/id1.html

bfisher
08-12-2010, 01:58 PM
I don't know, here's the website. Maybe you can tell from this.
http://www.mikes-archery.com/id1.html

Yep, that's Crackers. While you're at it you should read some of his Technical advice, too. There's the one about installing and tuning new strings. I was particularly impressed by his statements about people trying to adhere to factory specs for brace, A2A, and suchinstead of setting the bow up for the shooter---things I've been trying for years to convince people of.

Coop
08-12-2010, 02:12 PM
I don't know, here's the website. Maybe you can tell from this.
http://www.mikes-archery.com/id1.html

Here ya' go..http://www.cartersarchery.com/strings.htm

If I was you, I would call him first to find out the lead time.

Here's another good one..http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=439879, Bucknasty..



Good luck,
Coop

hunt123
08-12-2010, 04:11 PM
OK, now I'm confused. So "Crackers" has two websites??

And I tried to make sense out of his tuning tip (ATA vs brace height vs draw length) but couldn't. I just gave up. Maybe you can make sense of it for me? I'm using my 30" DL module and twisting the cable to get the ATA to spec (32 1/4"). Just ignoring brace height. So that's wrong??

I did understand the part where he said to twist one side of the yoke to get your idler parallel with the string. That's contrary to what I've read elsewhere: you want the arrow laid alongside the idler to intersect the string at your D-Loop. Which is right?

PS. I pulled out my extra Martin factory cable and replaced the suspicious one with that and everything seems to be working better. Except that the Martin cable grew 1/4" after only about 30 shots. So I twisted the 1/4" out of it, but haven't shot it since. Kind of a pain to have to do that every 30 shots. At least I'm figuring out that I need to get another cable. I'll put the Martin one away when I get the new one.

Coop
08-12-2010, 04:30 PM
The website that you put up in your thread is not Crackers website. Its another, "Mike".. I have bought from the web site that you put in your thread, an he does make a good string also.

So, now that I have completely confused ya'... either "Mike" is a good string maker.

Coop

bfisher
08-12-2010, 05:54 PM
The website that you put up in your thread is not Crackers website. Its another, "Mike".. I have bought from the web site that you put in your thread, an he does make a good string also.

So, now that I have completely confused ya'... either "Mike" is a good string maker.

Coop

OK, so I was wwwwwwrong, again. I thought for sure that was Crackers. Sorry for leading anybody astray.

Destroyer
08-13-2010, 04:10 AM
I don't know, here's the website. Maybe you can tell from this.
http://www.mikes-archery.com/id1.html

My last set was from him and wasn't too impressed. And he only does 452X which I think doesn't have enough stretch, especially for a string.

hunt123
08-13-2010, 04:22 AM
My last set was from him and wasn't too impressed. And he only does 452X which I think doesn't have enough stretch, especially for a string.
You want stretch in a string???

Destroyer
08-13-2010, 04:32 AM
Yep! Low stretch material I like, creep in a string I don't. 452x doesn't seem to have any stretch at all, putting more stress on the bow. Ok for cables but not for strings imho. I believe creep is to do with how well the string is made, not what its made from ;)

hunt123
08-13-2010, 06:27 AM
Yep! Low stretch material I like, creep in a string I don't. 452x doesn't seem to have any stretch at all, putting more stress on the bow. Ok for cables but not for strings imho. I believe creep is to do with how well the string is made, not what its made from ;)

Guess I need a little education. My understanding is that good strings are pre-stretched at 300-400lbs so they won't stretch on your bow. Implying that there will be zero (or close to) movement, stretch, creep.

If 452x doesn't have any stretch and in addition it's pre-stretched, that seems ideal for both cables and strings. I don't want my ATA to change, neither do I want my draw length to change or my peep to rotate.

Coop
08-13-2010, 07:06 AM
Thought I might send this to ya'...http://www.bcyfibers.com/tech_forum.php
Info that maybe you haven't read on BCY's strings... I buy only string sets that are 452X, an tell the string maker what nock & arrow I am using(they usually ask anyway). Hope this helps some...

Coop

hunt123
08-13-2010, 07:31 AM
Great info! Thank you!!

bfisher
08-13-2010, 05:52 PM
Guess I need a little education. My understanding is that good strings are pre-stretched at 300-400lbs so they won't stretch on your bow. Implying that there will be zero (or close to) movement, stretch, creep.

If 452x doesn't have any stretch and in addition it's pre-stretched, that seems ideal for both cables and strings. I don't want my ATA to change, neither do I want my draw length to change or my peep to rotate.

You've gotten some misunderstanding about the terminology.

All strings have some stretch. Stretch means elasticity in that when shot the string elongates and then, like a rubber band, returns to it's original length. A little stretch can be desirable as it allows a little "give" so reduces some of the shock or stress on the whole bow when it's shot. It kind of makes the shot a little "softer" as we say. The less stretch a string material has makes the bow faster, all things being equal.

When most people use the term stretch they really mean "creep". They are just using the wrong word. Creep is the condition where a string/cables elongate under tension and remain elongated. This is what changes the bow's specs over time. Draw length gets longer, A2A gets longer, brace height decreases, etc.

This is why both Brownell and BCY are constantly trying new combinations of string materials (Vectran and Dyneema) to come up with different characteristics for the ever changing archery industry.

The idea of prestretching strings is not to reduce stretch, but to minimize creep to the finished product. String material is wrapped on a jig by hand. No two strands have the same tension on them. Prestretching reduces these inequities, stretching the shorter strands to the same length as the longer ones so all the strnads work as a unit.

So when you read other threads where the term "stretch" is used you can pretty well assume that the person means "creep" (permanent elongation).

Hope this helps, and forgive me, but I get detail oriented at times.

hunt123
08-13-2010, 06:08 PM
Good information. Thanks for clarifying. I can see the difference now.

Destroyer
08-13-2010, 10:10 PM
and forgive me, but I get detail oriented at times.

Don't go apologizing for detail like this Barry. Great stuff! :)

bfisher
08-14-2010, 09:19 AM
Don't go apologizing for detail like this Barry. Great stuff! :)

I guess you're right. I do get long winded, but I get annoyed so many times at the misuse of terms like ---stretch and creep. This misuse by those who know better is what often times confuses those with less knowledge so they never quite get it together to be able to tune or maintain their own equipment. Then when they get on a forum and post a question they, in turn, use the wrong term which results in incorrect answers to their question, which leads to even more confusion.