View Full Version : help!
10-12-2006, 12:29 PM
I just bought a 2003 model Tracer LT from Dick's. I am having trouble setting it up. I had them paper tune it at 15 yards - but when I went home I could not get the flight good from 20 yards and out. We noticed that the arrow seemed to be kicking - so I moved the separator bar out more to create more clearance. When the smoke cleared at 11:30 PM last night, I was adjusting the tension on the fork rest - re-alighned the tru-nok, bla-bla-bla!...I wish I knew what I was doing. Can someone please give me the basics and straighten me out - I have to hunt this afternoon - I want a 4" group at 20 yards at worst. The bow is a single CAM Fuzion. Perhaps the smallest bow I have ever held in my hand - I love it - but need help ASAP in setting it up - the basics - I mean the very basic basics...get the crayons out!
31" Easton Stalker with 5" fletch
100 grain field point
Shockwave 100 Broadhead
thanks in advance...
10-12-2006, 01:18 PM
Is the bow set at the max 70 lb weight setting ?
Fingers or mechanical release ?
What size are the arrows ?(there should be some numbers on them, like 2413, or 2117, or something like that.)
Do you have any way to cut the arrows ?- 31" is basically a full length shaft. Even if the spine numbers are correct, the extra length & weight could be throwing things out of whack
First, return the cable guard back to minimum clearance - you only need 1/16 of an inch between vane and cables. You should only adjust this if you know you have contact problems. Adding clearance also adds cam lean - on a short, one cam bow, you could actually pull the string out of the track by over-adjusting the cable guard.
Give us a little more info and maybe we can help (although I must warn you I do not shoot single cams myself - only Martin Fury & Nitrous two cams.)
10-12-2006, 02:55 PM
Easton Stalker 2219
Tru-Fire Mechanical Release
the bow ranges from 55-70#
Martin Tech support informaed me that I could crank it higher if I want - I have to leave some space however for the limbs to breath - - with that said, I do not wish to go any higher - the 70 # is perfect...
10-12-2006, 04:09 PM
Is the problem that you are unable to group your broadheads with your field points or just can't get a good group at all?
If you can't group at all, I'd guess one of two things. 1. Either there is a clearance problem and the vanes are hitting either your cables (which you've already adjusted for) or your rest. OR It's something that you are doing wrong ie torqueing the grip etc. Don't take that the wrong way, I have no idea if you are an experienced shooter with a new bow or a novice.
If you are just unable to group your broadheads with your field points, then I would refer you to the Easton Tuning Guide. That will run you through steps to tune your broadheads to hit like field points. It can be found and downloaded here--->http://www.eastonarchery.com/downloads.asp
Hope you're able to get it shooting straight before you decide to go hunting. Best of luck.
10-13-2006, 05:09 PM
I am not sure what you mean by leaving the "limbs some room to breathe" ? All bows operate most efficiently (and generally more quietly) at the max setting, which means with the limb bolts turned all the way down tight (don't get out a torque wrench, off course, but just hand tighten all the way.) If you are shooting with the bolts backed out more than one turn, you could be at 65# or lower, which would affect the arrow spine issues I am about to look at.
Per the Easton charts, for 70 lbs, one cam, 2219 shafts with 100 grain heads would be within acceptable spine at 29" length, the charts do not show 2219 as appropriate at 31" length, so if you are going to stick with those arrows, you may want to trim them down some to get in the optimal spine range. Personally, those arrows are WAY heavier than I would want to use for most game. Your total grain weight is going to be over 500 grains. If you are going to shoot BIG game, like bears, moose, etc., that might be OK, but your arrow drop beyond 20 yards will be significant, so knowing the distance to your target will be much more critical with these heavy arrows. I shoot 70 lb 2 cam bows, and use Easton carbon arrows at 400 spine, at about 375 grains total weight.
Back to your tuning issue. The extra long arrows could be one part of it, so I would at least trim those down. You mentioned a "fork rest", I assume that is a TM Hunter style - You also mention 5" fletchings. Whether helical or offset straight, it will be virtually impossible to get good vane clearance with 5" fletching and a fork type arrow rest. There's just too much vane surface to thread between the forks. You might be able to tune the spring tension down a good bit to minimize the influence, but getting perfect clearance will be tough.
My honest, personal advice is to get some shorter, lighter arrows (maybe in the 2314 or 2413 aluminums, cut an inch longer than the front of your rest at full draw) with shorter - say 3 to 4 inch straight vanes. Your front of center balance with 100 grain heads will be much better, your arrow speed will be much higher, and the arrow diameter will be a tad larger, but with smaller vanes to help get better clearance. These arrows and a good drop away or full-containment rest would really help eliminate arrow or rest induced tuning problems. You'd still have to make sure the cables aren't touching, and you're not torquing the bow, of course, but these would be my suggested first steps.
I am sure there are plenty of folks that would argue that a heavy arrow is always better, but I think yours are too heavy & too long, and likely part of the problem.
10-16-2006, 09:22 AM
Maybe Im overlooking the broadhead brand by skimming through this, but that very well could be a problem! I am not putting any brand names down, just stating some broadheads fly better and flatter than others. I would not change arrows either, as this could get very expensive for the common working man! I would try a fixed 4 blade broadhead maybe 125 gr. muzzy would be a good choice. The heaver broadhead will help the heaver arrow to fly straighter! this will slow the arrow just a little but also give more bone crushing knetic energy.
10-16-2006, 10:53 AM
I understand everything that was written - I think it may take until next archery season to figure it all out though!
I think we got it under control - the tuning issue that is. I totally understand the shorter arrow & broadhead weight issue - but due to budgetary restraints my son and I use the same "generic" arrrows. So - right off the bat I know that I will never be able to shoot masterfully as you all - but if I can consistantly put a 4" group at 30 yards, that will have to do! But I must say, the 5" inch fletch issue is very interesting to me - I have to re-fletch anyway - so I will try the 4" fletch and see if that helps for both of us. I use a bitzenberger dial-o-fletch "straight' jig with a very small offset - my son is right handed and I am a lefty. I am sure some of you all are saying..."man what a piece of work!" - but I am rying to keep it simple - and cheap - within reason that is...
So - here is the latest. After tuning the bow - I could "not" sight it in. No matter what I did the arows would always be 6" to the right! I kept moving my sight pin to the right - until the blasted thing fell out! I new I had a piloting issue at that point! I have been shooting for 20 years - and I used a kisser button. Well - to make a long story short - I had to install a peep sight. So - I have a peep sight and a kisser. I am having a dickens of a time getting my act together! I cannot see through that thing!
Which brings another question - the bowstring - it has two different color strands - the thing seems to be twisted - and when the bow is at full draw, I think the peep is twisted and causing some blurriness - I do not have a bow press to try this one out...
I barely see the sight pin and everything seems blurry. I tried drilling the peep whole out (the most I would do is 1/4") - and I am still having problems. And - Thursday night my son and I were hunting and as the sun went down I could not see the sight pin through the peep - but there was at least 20 minutes more shooting time!
the rut is in a couple of weeks - I need to adjust me or the bow by then!
10-17-2006, 01:49 AM
On the peep sight, you'd probably be best off to start with a tube-aligned peep sight, so you can be assured it will be in line. I never could get any "stock" strings to keep a peep straight (& Martin has some very good stock strings.)
If the 6" drift stays consistent, even after you move your sight pin, it makes me think there must be a fairly consistent influence, perhaps it is the rest prongs steering those 5 inch fletchings. Are you shooting with the cock fletch down (threading between the prongs) or up, so the other two fletches are straddling the prongs ? Whichever it is, try it the other way and see what it does. If the answer is that you're shooting with cock-fletch out, traditional style, but shooting a prong style rest, there is no question you cannot get vane clearance.
You can use lipstick, dry erase pen, foot powder, or other such non-drying indicators on the prongs, then shoot and see how much vane contact you are getting. I suspect it might be a lot, especially if you're shooting cock fletch out - I think Stalkers are glue on nocks, so I guess it's not possible for you to easily move the nocks around....
I think I have some old 2413 shafts with uni-nocks down in my basement - I'm not sure how many, & some may need re-fletching, but I'd be glad to send you some to try out and see if they make a difference - they're just collecting dust since I went to carbon arrows a few years back. No charge - just returning the favor of those that helped me get started.
If you're interested, just let me know here or by Private Message.
10-17-2006, 01:00 PM
I have the cock fletch down in the prong rest. I have not tried using any powder to see where the fletch is hiting - I need to do that. My peep has a tube - which theoretically "should" straighten it out...but I think it is not. I am going to the local sports store tonight and have them put it on a press to straighten out my string - and have them take a look at the whole setup. The fellow at Dick's was a very nice young man who seemed to know his info - kinda thinkin maybe to take it to a local sports shop and have them take a look. In the past they have gave me great advice and seem to do great work. I reallize you can only tinker so much - - the main thing is shooting and getting used to the new bow. If the stop at the sports shop does not help with the peep - my next plan is to remove the fork rest and put an old springy type on (please don't cringe ;) ) and try it - physics tells me that will left justify my arrow - if I can ditch the peep and use the kisser only (like I have for 20 years) I may dance in my back yard and really make my neighbors think I am whacked! I wish my old bow had broke in the summer so that right now - in the middle of archery here in MD - I would not be tinkering around. Again - my goal is to put six arrows in a 4" group at 30 yards. As for the arrows - I will wait on that - but may take you up on it - thanx a million...will you know how it goes...
10-18-2006, 12:47 PM
If you change rests and still find the arrows drifting consistently, I would go back to my earlier statement about the arrow length. I haven't calculated it, but I would think the front-of center balance is probably not where it needs to be on 2219 aluminum arrows 31" long with 100 grain points. Compound that with the potential influence of long vanes steering off a rest, and I can see how it would be very difficult to make them hit where you aim.
This is a pretty easy thing to test. Just pull the inserts from 1 or 2 arrows, cut off 2-3 inches (I'd go with 3 or more) using a copper tubing cutter, and see if it makes any difference.
Oh, & I did cringe at the springy rest - if you are using plastic vanes, at least. If you are using feathers, it might not be as bad as the fork prong rest.
Good luck, & just let me know if you decide you want to try some of these lighter arrows. I think they'd be long enough for you to use.
10-19-2006, 07:28 PM
well - I took the bow to the local sport shop and the fellow straightened me out. The peep was 180* out of whack - the peep was faced away from the bow just sitting there - he spun it around, shortened my draw length to the smallest setting - and I pulled that thing back - the peep lined up - the sight pin was perfect - - - I about danced in that place! So - I went home and shot - it seems now that I have everything set up correctly - tuned that is - I just have to shoot, shoot, shoot and get used to it. I think by the rut I will be deadly proficient - right now I can put a nice group at ~ 20 yards - all kills. But I will perfect things within the next few weeks. I do plan on migrating to a 4" fletch - that seems logical...
thanx for all the ideas and support!
10-25-2006, 01:24 PM
Thanks for all the info. I am finding out that things are becoming more stable as I shoot - - that is after the last adjustment to the peep and all was made. But - I am really pondering cutting an arrow or two down to see what effect it has - then perhaps try a 4" fletch. Now I have a question that I hope you or another very kowledgeable individual can answer - the 2219 easton stalker - how many grains per inch? I know I have to shoot a total weight (broadhead/field tip) of 350 grains - the tip is 100 grains - If I cut off an inch or two, how many grains does that equate to? Is there a scale that I can buy that will not rip a whole in my wallet? Or is that something you take to the local sports store? Or is there concrete data somewhere that I can glean the info from...
thanks gain for everything...
10-25-2006, 02:00 PM
Per info on the Easton web site, the 2219 is 13.8 grains per inch, so a 29 inch shaft alone will weigh 400.2 grains.... add a 100 grain point, aluminum insert, vanes & nock, and you've got one heavy projectile, probably over 550 grains. If the front-of center balance is good and you can resolve vane clearance issues, it would be more quiet at the shot and more stable in wind than the lighter weight alternatives, but your pin gap (i.e. arrow drop) will be much greater.
Compare the grain weight to the 2413 at 10.7 grains per inch, for a 29 inch shaft weight of 302. Once you add your inserts, vanes, nock and point, your total arrow weight will still exceed 400 grains easily - still well over the 350 minimum.
Even my Easton Carbon Epic 400s (last year's model) at 8.17 grains per inch easily clear the 350 grain mark - they're about 375 total. Plus, my current bows actually top a bit under 70 pounds (66 & 68) so I've got some added margin of safety there. I don't try to flirt with the IBO/warranty minimum, but I do like to have as flat a trajectory as possible, so range estimation errors are less critical.
With 2413s, I had pins at 20, 30 & 40 yards. With Epic 400s, they're a touch closer together and set at 25, 35, 45 (plus 55 & 65, but I haven't found anywhere in the woods in GA you can actually have a clear 65 yard shot with a bow.;) )
I would definitely try cutting a couple of those 2219s down 2 - 2 1/2 inches first - it would certainly have to improve the FOC balance, not to mention take 30+ grains right off the top :eek:
Good luck with the tinkering - I think I enjoy that as much as the hunting. If I don't respond to this thread within a day or two, shoot me a PM, I sometimes forget to check this board every day.
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