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RAGHORN
09-04-2010, 09:11 AM
I paper tuned my martin moab and its results are i need to shoot a stiffer arrow.
I'm shooting my bow @65# my arrows are gold tips 5575 26.5 l and a hundred grain tips. The spine on these arrows is 400.
Does any body have any insight on what i can do .
Thanks

b0w_bender
09-04-2010, 10:00 AM
Can you tell us what you've done already?
What are the length and direction of the paper tares you are getting?

What rest are you using? Have you confirmed that you are not getting any vane contact. Spray a little foot powder on the bow\rest area. When you shoot any contact will be obvious the foot powder will be smeared away.

I'm not real familiar with that arrow but a 400 spine with a 100 grain point should be stiff enough especially if you are shooting a release. Are you shooting a release?

What draw length and arrow length are you shooting?

Ehunter
09-04-2010, 01:34 PM
55/75 and a 100gr head is what I shot for years. Easiest way to check fletch clearance for me is to use lipstick on the very edge of the fletch. Shoot and arrow, look for marks on the riser, rest, etc. It sounds more like a clearance problem than anything. I'm shooting a 68# bow, and a 350 spine. Found out it was actually a bit stiff. Added more head weight, and now getting good flight. Might try backing the poundage off about 2 turns per limb bolt, and see if that fixes your flight problem. If it does, you are indeed underspined. If not, you may actually be overspined. That 400 spine is at 30 inches. Cutting down to 26.5 stiffens the arrow up alot.

RAGHORN
09-04-2010, 03:58 PM
The tares are to the left.
Moved the rest and that did not help.
I've back off the poundage still no help.
Tryed a 125 gr tip still no help .
I ll mark my flechings and check that.
I'm using a drop a way rest rip cord . 26in draw
Thanks

bfisher
09-04-2010, 05:50 PM
400 spine is plenty stiff enough for the bow. You might try going up in weight, especially if turning the weight down didn't improve things. Another thing to consider is torque. Are you gripping the bow at all? If so then do a search on AT about "grip" and maybe change yours.

Pay attention to nock fit on the string. If the nocks are too tight it can goof things up a lot, and make you tear your hair out trying to figure things out.

I've been reading other threads lately on other forums and came up with this. If nothing works, then sometimes a change of rest is in order. Some people, for whatever reason, can't get certain rests to work.

Here's another. What results are you getting? Is it through paper? If so then maybe forget paper tuning and follow Easton's Tuning Guide for broadhead tuning. If you can get broadheads to fly well and they hit the same POI as your field tips then call it a day and be happy.

SonnyThomas
09-04-2010, 06:29 PM
400 spine is plenty stiff enough for the bow. You might try going up in weight, especially if turning the weight down didn't improve things. Another thing to consider is torque. Are you gripping the bow at all? If so then do a search on AT about "grip" and maybe change yours.

Pay attention to nock fit on the string. If the nocks are too tight it can goof things up a lot, and make you tear your hair out trying to figure things out.

I've been reading other threads lately on other forums and came up with this. If nothing works, then sometimes a change of rest is in order. Some people, for whatever reason, can't get certain rests to work.

Here's another. What results are you getting? Is it through paper? If so then maybe forget paper tuning and follow Easton's Tuning Guide for broadhead tuning. If you can get broadheads to fly well and they hit the same POI as your field tips then call it a day and be happy.

Sound advise. Many people place too much emphasis on paper tuning. Good articles get ignored or forgotten to. I forget the Pro's name, two Pros infact, that wrote up several bows they were testing. Each had one bow that just would not shoot the "magic" bullet hole through paper, but when put to the real test, shooting, they actually performed as good as those that shot bullet holes. One of the Pros kept the untamable bow, went on a dozen hunts and had success throughout.
Of my own bows, one is atrocious when it comes to paper tuning, but it also put more 3D trophies on the wall than any other two 3D bows I've owned. I think I've had 3 different rests on this bow, tried I don't know how many arrows and to no avail. Still, it is probably one of the most accurate bows I own. I don't think I'll ever get rid of it.

Destroyer
09-04-2010, 06:34 PM
400 spine is plenty stiff enough for the bow..

Not for my Pantera @ 65#.


The tares are to the left.

What is to the left? The fletchings or the tip? :confused:

bfisher
09-04-2010, 06:56 PM
Not for my Pantera @ 65#. :confused:

Yeah, but are you shooting 26" draw length?

Destroyer
09-04-2010, 07:02 PM
Nope, 30". Whats your point bfisher? :D

bfisher
09-04-2010, 07:21 PM
Nope, 30". Whats your point bfisher? :D

My point is with his shorter draw length and shorter arrow a 400 spine may even come up just a hair on the stiff side for his setup. Don't forget, we have to work with dynamic spine when tuning. Your 4" of additional draw length adds to that arrow which is in a different spectrum.

I know the arrow charts work with static spine. Then we look for the draw weight and length we need, point weight and such. Then the charts recommend a certain spine arrow. That is, a shaft that has the recommended starting (static) spine. Then when we chop that shaft down to size it becomes something else. In this case, much stiffer static spine. Then we tune the bow.

I just downloaded a trial version of OT2 yesterday. I might have to work with this and see what I come up with.

Destroyer
09-04-2010, 07:32 PM
My point is with his shorter draw length and shorter arrow a 400 spine may even come up just a hair on the stiff side for his setup.

Just kidding bfisher, I messed up, sorry mate. Thought it was 30" for some reason, didn't read the post correctly. ;)


I just downloaded a trial version of OT2 yesterday. I might have to work with this and see what I come up with.

Only problem I have with it is that is uses manufacturer 'quoted' speeds. You can still enter your own speed if you know it though. It was coming up with much stiffer arrows than I was using.

Btw, you can download "2006 Easton Shaft Selector Software" for free too.

RAGHORN
09-05-2010, 08:26 AM
No to griping it to tight. I checked my rest and I'm not hitting it.
Point is to the right and fletchings to the left.I tryed a 125 tip no help.
The next heaviest arrow is the 7595 @8.9 great.per in.
But has less spline is this something. I should try? And the bow shoots great I robin hood arrows frequently but I m just being anal I guess. The bow shop I bought it from shot for Martin and he said he never paper tunes his.
Lots of great info thanks

b0w_bender
09-05-2010, 12:16 PM
Yes I'm thinking your issue is vane contact let us know the results of your test.

Also don't forget you can twist your arrow nock to alter vane alignment

bfisher
09-05-2010, 05:05 PM
No to griping it to tight. I checked my rest and I'm not hitting it.
Point is to the right and fletchings to the left.I tryed a 125 tip no help.
The next heaviest arrow is the 7595 @8.9 great.per in.
But has less spline is this something. I should try? And the bow shoots great I robin hood arrows frequently but I m just being anal I guess. The bow shop I bought it from shot for Martin and he said he never paper tunes his.
Lots of great info thanks

You have your wires crossed. The 7595 is a .340 spine which in arrow spine terms is stiffer than .400. When speaking in terms of arrow spine a smaller number means more stiff.

Don't confuse this with the arrow numbering system of some manufacturers such as Carbon Express. Their arrows are not numbered with the spine rating, but some half assed system to confuse consumers. There are others as well, such as the older Blackhawk Vapors, Radial XWeaves and others.

Easton/Beman are the only ones that mark all their arrows with the spine rating. Gold Tip Ultralites do, too. Whenever you look at arrows always find out what the actual spine rating is.

Frankly I hardly ever shoot through paper unless somebody bugs me enough about it that I punch a bullet hole just to show them that their paper tuning isn't the be-all/end-all method of tuning. There are several methods that can be used. You have to try several and find one or two that work for you and then learn how to do your own tuning. Paper, walk-back, French, bare shaft, broadhead; these are just several methods used by most people. There are others. If you don't have a one you need to get a copy of Easton's Tuning Guide. It explains basic bow setups and several tuning methods and what adjustments to make during tuning processes. And one important thing that most people neglect to do is READ the thing before using it. Specifically, I'm referring to the next to last paragraph at the bottom of page 7. Most people fail to read this part and make the wrong adjustments and can't get their bow to tune and can't figure out why.

Tell you what. Give me all the bow specs and broadhead weight, fletching style and I'll run the numbers through OT2 and see what it comes up with.

bfisher
09-05-2010, 05:13 PM
Just kidding bfisher, I messed up, sorry mate. Thought it was 30" for some reason, didn't read the post correctly. ;)



Only problem I have with it is that is uses manufacturer 'quoted' speeds. You can still enter your own speed if you know it though. It was coming up with much stiffer arrows than I was using.

Btw, you can download "2006 Easton Shaft Selector Software" for free too.

#1. I figure you missed something. I'm pretty sure you knew better than what you were posting. No problem.

#2 I'm onl;y using OT2 for a short time to see if it knows any more than I do. I don't have all the little details in my head, but in my experience picking correctly spined arrows isn't rocket science. I could care less whether my arrows are 26" or 26 1/8". I can make adjustments with the limb bolts on the bow for fine tuning---something that many can't figure out these days. Computers are nice, but they've led people down a path that relieves them of using their own brains. and/or common sense.

Thanks for the tip about Easton's Shaft Selector. I assume it's on Easton's website, correct?

Destroyer
09-05-2010, 06:46 PM
Yep.

https://www.eastonarchery.com/download/software

2010 version available now. :)

bfisher
09-05-2010, 07:13 PM
Yep.

https://www.eastonarchery.com/download/software

2010 version available now. :)

Pretty simple download and pretty simple software. Not all the detailed BS most of them need to know. Straight forward. And FREE.

Destroyer
09-05-2010, 07:17 PM
I especially like the 'free' bit. :D