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m00se
10-05-2010, 11:23 AM
I hope this hasn't been covered in another thread. I searched and didn't find an answer. I also posted this question at the end of another thread, but it might get more traffic here.

66# Prowler, 32" arrows, TM Hunter rest. Because of prices, I have narrowed my choices to this:

Beman MFX Realtree
Gold Tip Expedition Hunter

Which one is better, and why? Or, which one do you like better? :)

alex
10-05-2010, 11:45 AM
I use Gold Tip and like them. You have a draw lenght of 32" or your present arrows are 32 inches long? If the second you can have your arrows cut - usually about an inch in front of the rest at full draw.

RobD
10-05-2010, 12:24 PM
I use Gold tip and love them. The main reason is because When I go out of State hunting. I don't have any problem finding the same arrows. Every place that sells arrows allow has GT. Could not imagine having to change arrow brands in the middle of a big hunt. Also they are a very good arrow, reasonably priced.

m00se
10-05-2010, 01:29 PM
I use Gold Tip and like them. You have a draw lenght of 32" or your present arrows are 32 inches long? If the second you can have your arrows cut - usually about an inch in front of the rest at full draw.

My present arrows are 32" long. At 31" they would be about an inch in front of the rest, and about halfway across the shelf. I've had pro shops recommend both lengths. From what I've read, 31" would be the correct length. The 32" recommendation was to "prevent accidents" in case an arrow with a BH fell off and hit my hand. I was also concerned about the weight of the arrow on an old bow (the extra inch would have helped), but as long as I can get to 350 grains I'll be OK.

Spiker
10-05-2010, 03:15 PM
GT Expedition 7595 31" with standard vanes and 100gn points will give you around 407gn total arrow weight. About right for hunting at 66#dw.
If you can afford them I would recommend the GT XT Hunters.

bfisher
10-05-2010, 05:21 PM
At those specs I would recommend a 300 spine arrow. Considering that you sound budget oriented I'd say Easton Epic or Excel if you want to spend a little more money.

The Gold Tip Expedition 7595 is a 340 spine and I doubt would be stiff enough. They might work, but to me it wouldn't be worth spending the money to find out they don't when there are other choices just as good in the 300 spine.

m00se
10-05-2010, 08:43 PM
At those specs I would recommend a 300 spine arrow. Considering that you sound budget oriented I'd say Easton Epic or Excel if you want to spend a little more money.

The Gold Tip Expedition 7595 is a 340 spine and I doubt would be stiff enough. They might work, but to me it wouldn't be worth spending the money to find out they don't when there are other choices just as good in the 300 spine.

Interesting... I've been consulting chart after chart, and they all indicate that I should be in a 340. In some cases, I'm borderline 400. I'll check out the Eastons you recommend.

m00se
10-05-2010, 08:52 PM
And while I'm here... 4" vanes, Blazers, Quick Spins, or something else?

bfisher
10-06-2010, 04:20 AM
You must be using different charts or criteria than I. My choice of a 300 spine comes right from the Easton and Beman charts and from my little pea brain.

As for a choice of vanes I favor the Duravane LP 400. I like their low profile
(3/8") and their consistancy of weight from one vane to the other. Of course you'll hear so many different opinions but this is just mine. Most of the time I favor feathers anyway.

m00se
10-06-2010, 06:01 AM
You must be using different charts or criteria than I. My choice of a 300 spine comes right from the Easton and Beman charts and from my little pea brain.

As for a choice of vanes I favor the Duravane LP 400. I like their low profile
(3/8") and their consistancy of weight from one vane to the other. Of course you'll hear so many different opinions but this is just mine. Most of the time I favor feathers anyway.

I think part of the reason I didn't see a 300 spine is because I was looking at charts for specific arrows that were on sale (and, I might add, RECOMMENDED for my bow by two chain outfitter stores), rather than something like Easton's arrow selector tool. My Easton XX75 2317s have a 300 spine. I defer to your wisdom and will look for a carbon arrow with a 300 spine. Cheap is good, but it's not a good deal if I have to buy more arrows because the 340's won't tune.

I figured I was going to touch off a "Beman VS Gold Tip" argument with this thread. I'm a little disappointed :)

Feathers have to be helical, correct? I'm not sure I can get a helical fletch to clear my rest.

Montalaar
10-06-2010, 06:22 AM
I always glued my feathers straight. At least in the 3 years i used them.

RLW
10-06-2010, 06:22 AM
I'm going to side with bfisher on this one, and suggest for the .300 spine with a 31" arrow.
The .340 might work fine for a target arrow, but fixed blade broadheads probably do better on a bit stiffer shaft.

Based on other thread I read of yours, my guess for starting point would be a 31" Beman ICS Hunter 300 (or Bowhunter), and I too prefer (3) 4" vanes, helical fletch or at least 4 degree offset. I would also suggest 125gr point to get good front of center balance..........still heavy arrow, at almost 7.5 gr/lb, but way less weight and faster than a 2317. (was that really 550gr, with point?......actually, seems low to me given specs)

Using a 31" arrow I just don't see getting down to 5-6grs/lb and have a stiff enough arrow.

Anyway just another opinion

FYI: I got the impression that you're not happy with Cabela's arrows. I also had bad luck with my first set from them, but bought another set of Carbon Hunters years later for my sons bow and they've held up great. "IF" you reconsider them look at the Carbon Hunter 65/80 w/(3) 4" AAE vanes

m00se
10-06-2010, 06:38 AM
I'm going to side with bfisher on this one, and suggest for the .300 spine with a 31" arrow.
The .340 might work fine for a target arrow, but fixed blade broadheads probably do better on a bit stiffer shaft.

Based on other thread I read of yours, my guess for starting point would be a 31" Beman ICS Hunter 300 (or Bowhunter), and I too prefer (3) 4" vanes, helical fletch or at least 4 degree offset. I would also suggest 125gr point to get good front of center balance..........still heavy arrow, at almost 7.5 gr/lb, but way less weight and faster than a 2317. (was that really 550gr, with point?......actually, seems low to me given specs)

Using a 31" arrow I just don't see getting down to 5-6grs/lb and have a stiff enough arrow.

Anyway just another opinion

FYI: I got the impression that you're not happy with Cabela's arrows. I also had bad luck with my first set from them, but bought another set of Carbon Hunters years later for my sons bow and they've held up great. "IF" you reconsider them look at the Carbon Hunter 65/80 w/(3) 4" AAE vanes

I shot the Carbon Hunters (340 spine) about a dozen times. They seemed OK, but I never tuned them. I'm not unhappy with the arrows. I'm disappointed in how an outfitter with Cabela's reputation handled the sale. And I'm very disappointed that the inserts weren't glued correctly and pulled partially out of two of the four arrows I shot. Cabela's offered to make it right, but now I'm gunshy (arrowshy?) of them. Also, they have no facilities to tune the bow to the new arrows (or is that tune the arrows? you know what I mean).

After looking at Beman's and Easton's shaft selectors, I'm tempted to run a 32" arrow. My bow only makes 66# TODAY, but I might get it re-cabled to see if I can get 70# out of it again. at 66#, both selectors recommend a 340 shaft for a 31" arrow. At 67#, both recommend a 300 shaft at 31". But at 32", a 300 spine is the recommendation for 66#+.

I was planning on 100gr points to try to get a flatter trajectory. Would I be better off with 125gr points?

RLW
10-06-2010, 06:54 AM
.............I was planning on 100gr points to try to get a flatter trajectory. Would I be better off with 125gr points?
Again this is just my personal opinion, but I do think you would be better off with the 125gr points.
Having more weight on the front for improved flight/stability is better than too little, which can at times cause weird arrow flight w/broadheads.
Really, 25grs won't make that much difference in trajectory.....we're talking maybe 5fps, so I bet less than an inch difference out at 50-60yds.

The extra 25grs can weaken spine slightly so if borderline on spine, cutting down to an inch to 31" will compensate for that. (& make up a couple fps the extra point weight looses)

m00se
10-06-2010, 10:53 AM
Frustration! According to Easton and Beman, I should be running a 300 spine. Every shop I call, pro shop or chain outfitter, recommends a 340 spine. One outfitter told me the GoldTip XP Hunter is a 300 spine (GT says it is a 340). They also say their house arrow is a 300, but I'm not at all sure I believe them.

Buying arrows shouldn't be this flippin' hard!

alex
10-06-2010, 11:22 AM
It's not so hard, you just think too much. Take the 300 and don't worry at all. I shoot 300 spined arrows from a 50# bow and they hit the target. Most of the guys here are almost pros and they think over every detail to get the best performance of their bows. For now you only need some (half a dozen) decent arrows and to go out and shoot and have fun.

bfisher
10-06-2010, 12:12 PM
It's not so hard, you just think too much. Take the 300 and don't worry at all. I shoot 300 spined arrows from a 50# bow and they hit the target. Most of the guys here are almost pros and they think over every detail to get the best performance of their bows. For now you only need some (half a dozen) decent arrows and to go out and shoot and have fun.

Exactly!!!!!! I'm sure you've read the term "Better to err on the stiff side". This is especially true with fixed blade broadheads. It's nice to have a perfect setup but a stiffer arrow doesn't bend as much coming out of the bow so doesn't have to reciver and straighten out as much as one that is underspined. One that is underspined may bend too much as it leaves the bow. This in turn causes the blades to catch wind and steer them off course making broadhead flight erratic.

Field or target point won't catch this wind so can and will group very well, giving the shooter a false sense of what to expect from broadheads. Believe me, it isn't going to happen. Add to that you may make a sloppy shot once in a while and things can really get screwy.

As Alex says, just get a half dozen 300's and find out for yourself. I know I've shot 300 spined arrows down as low as 42# at 27" and got good groupng. They didn't paper tune or bareshaft tune worth a hoot, but sure did group at the target.

Right now I'd say it's time to make a decision and get to having some fun and beating your head against a brick wall isn't fun. Shooting is fun.

m00se
10-06-2010, 12:41 PM
Exactly!!!!!! I'm sure you've read the term "Better to err on the stiff side". This is especially true with fixed blade broadheads. It's nice to have a perfect setup but a stiffer arrow doesn't bend as much coming out of the bow so doesn't have to reciver and straighten out as much as one that is underspined. One that is underspined may bend too much as it leaves the bow. This in turn causes the blades to catch wind and steer them off course making broadhead flight erratic.

Field or target point won't catch this wind so can and will group very well, giving the shooter a false sense of what to expect from broadheads. Believe me, it isn't going to happen. Add to that you may make a sloppy shot once in a while and things can really get screwy.

As Alex says, just get a half dozen 300's and find out for yourself. I know I've shot 300 spined arrows down as low as 42# at 27" and got good groupng. They didn't paper tune or bareshaft tune worth a hoot, but sure did group at the target.

Right now I'd say it's time to make a decision and get to having some fun and beating your head against a brick wall isn't fun. Shooting is fun.

Ok, you got me. I tend to overthink things :) It looks like I'm going to go for GoldTip Velocity Hunters. I finally found a pro shop I like. Not sure if I'll go 31 or 32 inches yet.

Montalaar
10-06-2010, 01:08 PM
Go with 32".

If you find out that the arrow is not stiff enough you can shorten it to 31". This will change the so called 'dynamic spine' and make the arrow stiffer.

m00se
10-06-2010, 01:13 PM
I think the magic number will be 32. But the arrows might be PSE Bow Madness. Comments on PSE Arrows?

alex
10-06-2010, 01:32 PM
:D An arrow is an arrow, it's not a magic wand - won't make a better shot alone. I understand you - there are dozens of makers each having an army of fans saying that their product is the best. Forget about this - take the first ones you've chosen and start shooting them. You're not married for the arrows - if you don't like them get rid of them and take new ones. Good luck!

Montalaar
10-06-2010, 01:35 PM
PSE arrows are not sold or maybe just not popular in germany. I think they had some decent ones years ago. I cannot comment on the current lineup. I'd recommend to stay with the GT or Easton or Beman arrows. At least at this point they are not that expensive but durable and also reliable.

m00se
10-10-2010, 11:00 AM
PSE arrows are not sold or maybe just not popular in germany. I think they had some decent ones years ago. I cannot comment on the current lineup. I'd recommend to stay with the GT or Easton or Beman arrows. At least at this point they are not that expensive but durable and also reliable.

Thanks for all the input, everyone. I don't know now which arrow I'm going to get, but I think it will be a carbon with a shaft weight of 9gr/in or more. I'm thinking Easton ST Axis or Beman ICS. I won't pick up as much speed with the heavier arrow, but I'm more comfortable with the heavier arrow in my bow. I want carbon more for durability than speed anyway.

Stupid question time... when shooting at 20 yds, compared to my 2317s, will the lighter arrow hit higher (less drop) or lower (flatter trajectory)?

bfisher
10-10-2010, 12:12 PM
Thanks for all the input, everyone. I don't know now which arrow I'm going to get, but I think it will be a carbon with a shaft weight of 9gr/in or more. I'm thinking Easton ST Axis or Beman ICS. I won't pick up as much speed with the heavier arrow, but I'm more comfortable with the heavier arrow in my bow. I want carbon more for durability than speed anyway.

Stupid question time... when shooting at 20 yds, compared to my 2317s, will the lighter arrow hit higher (less drop) or lower (flatter trajectory)?

Having smaller diameter the rest or nocking point will need to be moved. In fact, I'd do a complete retune. Once that is done and the bow is resighted you shouldn't see a change in POI at 20 yards or maybe even 30 yards. Depending on the new arrow's speed you might get away with gang adjusting your sight.

Hutch~n~Son Archery
10-10-2010, 12:24 PM
Thanks for all the input, everyone. I don't know now which arrow I'm going to get, but I think it will be a carbon with a shaft weight of 9gr/in or more. I'm thinking Easton ST Axis or Beman ICS. I won't pick up as much speed with the heavier arrow, but I'm more comfortable with the heavier arrow in my bow. I want carbon more for durability than speed anyway.



I shoot arrows that weigh over 400 grains, but they still hit the target at 100 yards, without a major arc.:D

m00se
10-10-2010, 01:43 PM
Having smaller diameter the rest or nocking point will need to be moved. In fact, I'd do a complete retune. Once that is done and the bow is resighted you shouldn't see a change in POI at 20 yards or maybe even 30 yards. Depending on the new arrow's speed you might get away with gang adjusting your sight.


I'm planning on a complete re-tune anyway. I've changed almost everything since the last tune, which was when I bought it. New string, increased draw weight, adjusted cam timing, and I think I zeroed the tiller. I also put a new sight on it (Tru-Glo Carbon XS).

m00se
10-10-2010, 01:45 PM
I shoot arrows that weigh over 400 grains, but they still hit the target at 100 yards, without a major arc.:D

Mine 2317s probably weigh more than 600 grains. I'll be happy if the new arrows don't fly over the target at 20 :)